iagainsti
Member
- Jun 10, 2009
- 93
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Yes, yet another gay marriage thread! If you're not interested, by all means pass this one up.
These are some questions I have for any Christian really, but specifically any Christian who is against gay marriage (which is many, I would assume).
I understand that the Bible has a few passages which condemn homosexuality as a sin, one in particular describing it as an "abomination." There can be no debate that in the Christian religion, homosexuality is considered a sin. There CAN be debate as to whether the fact that something is considered a sin in a particular religion should be cause to make it illegal, but that's not what I want to focus on in this thread.
What I DO want to focus on here are the specific verses in the Bible which condemn homosexuality. These verses are found in the Old Testament.
I have heard conflicting opinions from Christians on how important the books of the Old Testament are to Christianity. There are obvious differences between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament, and I have heard many Christians account for this by saying something to the effect that God's word changed with the coming of Jesus. It was no longer so much about the practices and strict behavioral outlines put forth in the Old Testament as it was about accepting Jesus' sacrifice and believing in him, as stressed in the New Testament.
So, it seems that to many Christians the New Testament is much more important than the Old. However, I'm sure there would be many (and I would be inclined to agree with them) who would say that whether or not the New Testament is more important to Christians, the Old Testament cannot be disregarded completely. It contains countless important and fascinating stories and accounts that Christians still cherish, and countless laws and commandments that Christians still abide by.
So, it does make sense to me that, even to Christians, the Old Testament should still have authority. So verses such as these...
Leviticus 18:22 - "You shall not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a man as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
...should not be forgotten by Christians just because they are found in the Old Testament.
Of course, as we all know, these two verses most definitely have NOT been forgotten by Christians.
If Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 carry as much weight as they do in the Christian community, the Old Testament obviously cannot and should not be disregarded. So why are verses such as these...
Leviticus 18:19 - "Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her menstrual impurity."
Leviticus 20:18 - "If there is a man who lies with a menstrous woman and uncovers her nakedness, he has laid bare her flow, and she has exposed the flow of her blood; thus both of them shall be cut off from among their people."
...not regarded as highly as the ones forbidding homosexual sex? These two verses are both within just a few verses as the two which forbid homosexuality, and yet you don't often hear Christians preaching about the evils of having sex with a woman while she's on her period. But shouldn't the fact that sex with a menstruating woman is right next to same-sex relations on God's list of immoral sexual acts make doing so just as immoral as homosexuality?
Here are several more Old Testament verses...
Leviticus 20:10 - "If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife...the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 - "If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods'...you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people."
Deuteronomy 14:8 - "And the pig, because it divides the hoof but does not chew the cud, it is unclean for you. You shall not eat any of their flesh nor touch their carcasses."
Deuteronomy 14:22 - "You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, whic comes out of the field every year."
Deuteronomy 22:11 - "You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together."
Deuteronomy 22:22 - "If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die; the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days."
Deuteronomy 23:1 - "No one who is emasculated, or has his male organ cut off, shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Deuteronomy 23:2 - "No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the Lord; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Deuteronomy 23:19-20 - "You shall not charge interest to your countrymen; interest on money, food, or anything that may be loaned at interest. You may charge interest to a foreigner, but to your countryman you shall not charge interest."
...that you don't often see Christians abiding by or seeming to give much thought to at all.
So my question is this: the verses in Leviticus which condemn homosexuality are no more holy than the other Levitical laws against immoral sexual acts, or any of the other Levitical laws for that matter...or any of the other verses throughout the Old Testament.
So why is the fact that homosexuality is considered a sin clung to so fervently by so many Christians, when the fact that having sex with a woman on her period, wearing clothes made of both linen and wool, charging interest to your countrymen, eating pork, and being an illegitimate child are all considered sins of the same caliber by the same Biblical standards? Are these of God's laws not as important as the one that forbids homosexuality?
I'd appreciate if there is anyone here who would be able to clarify to me what it is about the Biblical laws forbidding same-sex relations that elevate them above other Biblical laws put forth in the same books of the Bible by the same God.
These are some questions I have for any Christian really, but specifically any Christian who is against gay marriage (which is many, I would assume).
I understand that the Bible has a few passages which condemn homosexuality as a sin, one in particular describing it as an "abomination." There can be no debate that in the Christian religion, homosexuality is considered a sin. There CAN be debate as to whether the fact that something is considered a sin in a particular religion should be cause to make it illegal, but that's not what I want to focus on in this thread.
What I DO want to focus on here are the specific verses in the Bible which condemn homosexuality. These verses are found in the Old Testament.
I have heard conflicting opinions from Christians on how important the books of the Old Testament are to Christianity. There are obvious differences between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament, and I have heard many Christians account for this by saying something to the effect that God's word changed with the coming of Jesus. It was no longer so much about the practices and strict behavioral outlines put forth in the Old Testament as it was about accepting Jesus' sacrifice and believing in him, as stressed in the New Testament.
So, it seems that to many Christians the New Testament is much more important than the Old. However, I'm sure there would be many (and I would be inclined to agree with them) who would say that whether or not the New Testament is more important to Christians, the Old Testament cannot be disregarded completely. It contains countless important and fascinating stories and accounts that Christians still cherish, and countless laws and commandments that Christians still abide by.
So, it does make sense to me that, even to Christians, the Old Testament should still have authority. So verses such as these...
Leviticus 18:22 - "You shall not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a man as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
...should not be forgotten by Christians just because they are found in the Old Testament.
Of course, as we all know, these two verses most definitely have NOT been forgotten by Christians.
If Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 carry as much weight as they do in the Christian community, the Old Testament obviously cannot and should not be disregarded. So why are verses such as these...
Leviticus 18:19 - "Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her menstrual impurity."
Leviticus 20:18 - "If there is a man who lies with a menstrous woman and uncovers her nakedness, he has laid bare her flow, and she has exposed the flow of her blood; thus both of them shall be cut off from among their people."
...not regarded as highly as the ones forbidding homosexual sex? These two verses are both within just a few verses as the two which forbid homosexuality, and yet you don't often hear Christians preaching about the evils of having sex with a woman while she's on her period. But shouldn't the fact that sex with a menstruating woman is right next to same-sex relations on God's list of immoral sexual acts make doing so just as immoral as homosexuality?
Here are several more Old Testament verses...
Leviticus 20:10 - "If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife...the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 - "If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods'...you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people."
Deuteronomy 14:8 - "And the pig, because it divides the hoof but does not chew the cud, it is unclean for you. You shall not eat any of their flesh nor touch their carcasses."
Deuteronomy 14:22 - "You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, whic comes out of the field every year."
Deuteronomy 22:11 - "You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together."
Deuteronomy 22:22 - "If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die; the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days."
Deuteronomy 23:1 - "No one who is emasculated, or has his male organ cut off, shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Deuteronomy 23:2 - "No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the Lord; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Deuteronomy 23:19-20 - "You shall not charge interest to your countrymen; interest on money, food, or anything that may be loaned at interest. You may charge interest to a foreigner, but to your countryman you shall not charge interest."
...that you don't often see Christians abiding by or seeming to give much thought to at all.
So my question is this: the verses in Leviticus which condemn homosexuality are no more holy than the other Levitical laws against immoral sexual acts, or any of the other Levitical laws for that matter...or any of the other verses throughout the Old Testament.
So why is the fact that homosexuality is considered a sin clung to so fervently by so many Christians, when the fact that having sex with a woman on her period, wearing clothes made of both linen and wool, charging interest to your countrymen, eating pork, and being an illegitimate child are all considered sins of the same caliber by the same Biblical standards? Are these of God's laws not as important as the one that forbids homosexuality?
I'd appreciate if there is anyone here who would be able to clarify to me what it is about the Biblical laws forbidding same-sex relations that elevate them above other Biblical laws put forth in the same books of the Bible by the same God.
