Christ is real

[Donald H]

Not promoted. God never condones evil. That ia against His nature, but He does bring judgement against evil.

Stop pretending that the various bibles don't condone and promote the worst evils known to humanity. If you don't then I'll exclude you from my part of this discussion.

 

[Meriweather]

the latter but leave out the 'blessed' part because that infers that somebody or some thing is doing the blessing.

Sure. Let's use 'favored' or 'lucky'. Those could be a simple act of nature.

 

[Meriweather]

There isn't, in the sense you infer.

Okay, the English teacher in me stepping forward. I imply. You infer.

 

[Donald H]

Gold is purified in fire. Upon death, are we fine enough to stand in the presence of God? If not, the impurities will be washed away so that we are all we can be--pure gold.

Purgatory is not a choice. The choices are to be with God or to be without Him. No sense in going through purgatory if the choice is to live outside of God's presence.

No, there's no sense in rejecting either the god or the purgatory. It's much more sensible to just live a good life free of religious superstitions.

So I haven't stopped doing that as I've been entertaining your ideas and beliefs. My position is hugely comforting in a way you may never be able to experience.

Is there a discussion to be had here? I have nothing further with which to lead.

 

[Meriweather]

It's much more sensible to just live a good life free of religious superstitions.

The funny thing is, I have no religious superstitions, but you say you do. For example, you believe religion teaches slavery and other evils.

The Bible teaches a Way of Life. The Old Testament has a series of Laws that keep God and Ideals before a person every waking minute. It is learning to love God through God's Law. The New Testament says love God, and through loving God, you will learn to love His Law. Catholicism is living this life knowing sins are forgiven. Judaism views the Torah and Tanakh as instructions for living this life.

When one's eyes are focused on the ideal, slavery and other evils are no longer a way of life. By the time of Christ, most Jews did not own any slaves simply because with eyes on the ideal, there were other options.

There have always been atheists in my family with good values. The only difference between them and me is that I was fascinated with was having my own experiences and relationship with God. I sought God. And found Him. They never had any interest in doing the same. They wanted/want to get through this life totally on their own.

The difference between the atheists in my family and you, is that they have never had a need to denigrate the Bible. Or religion. They pass up religion in much the same way I pass up peas--with no comment or excuse.

 

[Meriweather]

Is there a discussion to be had here? I have nothing further with which to lead.

Probably not. The discussion topic is "Christ is Real." If you hold no belief in Christ, perhaps another topic would better suit? (Saying this because all the atheists in my family would never have stepped into this thread to begin with.)

For me, not only is Christ real, his teachings are more so. Following the Narrow Way Christ taught has made a pronounced difference in my life. I live in joy.

 

[Donald H]

The funny thing is, I have no religious superstitions, but you say you do. For example, you believe religion teaches slavery and other evils.

No, not exactly. The bibles instructs people on the proper conditions to be followed on the treatment of slaves. If you've read your bible, you will already know the ugly details.

The Bible teaches a Way of Life. The Old Testament has a series of Laws that keep God and Ideals before a person every waking minute. It is learning to love God through God's Law. The New Testament says love God, and through loving God, you will learn to love His Law. Catholicism is living this life knowing sins are forgiven. Judaism views the Torah and Tanakh as instructions for living this life.

And as that pertains to keeping slaves, it must therefore instruct how to show love to your slaves, ans how to punish them. Love in the sense that it tells you when it's permissable to separate a man from his wife and children!

When one's eyes are focused on the ideal, slavery and other evils are no longer a way of life. By the time of Christ, most Jews did not own any slaves simply because with eyes on the ideal, there were other options.

Some Jews didn't own slaves. Some jews aren't Zionists and don't practice apartheid against the Palestinian people. Let's not go there right now.

There have always been atheists in my family with good values. The only difference between them and me is that I was fascinated with was having my own experiences and relationship with God. I sought God. And found Him. They never had any interest in doing the same. They wanted/want to get through this life totally on their own.

So what?

The difference between the atheists in my family and you, is that they have never had a need to denigrate the Bible. Or religion. They pass up religion in much the same way I pass up peas--with no comment or excuse.

They were being polite and respectful of your opinions. This is a discussion board and I have no reason to respect your opinions. You know you can walk away whenever you choose. If you choose to hear my opinion then you are obliged to present something that I feel is worth my time on which to comment.

 

[Donald H]

Probably not. The discussion topic is "Christ is Real." If you hold no belief in Christ, perhaps another topic would better suit? (Saying this because all the atheists in my family would never have stepped into this thread to begin with.)

For me, not only is Christ real, his teachings are more so. Following the Narrow Way Christ taught has made a pronounced difference in my life. I live in joy.

You don't come off as being joyful, you appear to be quite obsessed with making some point that rebuts the facts I have presented to you on your bible's support of various evils I've suggested.

That's your cross to bear and no amount of dancing around the facts is going to lighten your burden.

You can choose to walk away and be joyful any time you like.

 

[Meriweather]

If you've read your bible, you will already know the ugly details.

I think it is you have 'read' the Bible. Ages ago, a Rabbi advised, "The Bible is to be studied, not read." I followed that advice, which is why you and I have very different perspectives on the Bible.

 

[Meriweather]

They were being polite and respectful of your opinions.

How lovely. Someone who knows my family better than either I know them, or they know themselves. (I doubt you care it was nothing like like that.) Nor were they rude.

They wanted all the details. And all that happened is that hard atheists became agnostics. I never converted a single soul and never tried. You see, I was the polite and respectful one. They saw how much effort I put into seeking God, following the narrow path. They believe that I am on to something, but their way was/is simply easier for them.

 

[Donald H]

I think it is you have 'read' the Bible. Ages ago, a Rabbi advised, "The Bible is to be studied, not read." I followed that advice, which is why you and I have very different perspectives on the Bible.

What is your perspective on the bible's teaching on when it's o.k. to separate a man from his wife and children. Let's study that in detail and you can tell me how to interpret that message.

 

[Meriweather]

You don't come off as being joyful, you appear to be quite obsessed with making some point that rebuts the facts I have presented to you on your bible's support of various evils I've suggested.

Hard for type to come across as joyful. Besides, while I was laughing, you took the resulting light teasing back as an insult. Could it be it is you who are jumping to some wrong conclusions?

For example, while you have determined I am 'quite obsessed' and that my family is 'polite' the truth is that I merely dismiss your presentation of the Bible because of the in depth study of the Bible I have undertaken for decades, including its languages, its cultures, its histories. Sorry, you are at the alphabet stage, and I quickly noted you had no wish to advance any further. And that's fine. Bible study is lifelong work and I am betting you have your own hobbies equally as interesting to you. That's good, by the way. We simply chose different ways to use our free time. I also enjoy Greek and Roman mythology, genealogy, gardening, and quilting.

 

[Donald H]

How lovely. Someone who knows my family better than either I know them, or they know themselves. (I doubt you care it was nothing like like that.) Nor were they rude.

You're welcome to tell me how it was with your family's dealing with your beliefs. But if you're going to get abusive like that then you're going to reap what you sow. Demonstrate your real Christian colours to somebody else. I won't tolerate it without returning the favour!

They wanted all the details. And all that happened is that hard atheists became agnostics. I never converted a single soul and never tried. You see, I was the polite and respectful one. They saw how much effort I put into seeking God, following the narrow path. They believe that I am on to something, but their way was/is simply easier for them.

So you say you taught your family the distinction between atheism and agnosticism. You don't get to teach me! I'm as comfortable with atheism as you try to convince me that you're comfortable in relying on your faith alone to keep you believing.

Your faith is forcing you to pretend to condone evils. You don't reallly because you're not an evil person. But you still owe it to others, an interpretation of your bible that can brush away the evil.

 

[Meriweather]

What is your perspective on the bible's teaching on when it's o.k. to separate a man from his wife and children. Let's study that in detail and you can tell me how to interpret that message.

Are you speaking of the laws set forth in Exodus regarding slavery? For example, a man who bought a female slave for himself or his son, that woman became a wife and had the same social standing as her husband.

A loophole that has been pointed out in the Bible, but was not resolved in the Bible, was a man who bought a woman as a wife for a male slave. The woman slave did not have to be freed at the same time the male slave, and because she was another man's wife, was not given the social status as the owner's wife when her husband was freed.

 

[Meriweather]

But if you're going to get abusive

Again, as I set forth previously, I never insult, nor do I ever abuse. If you choose to regard me in such a light, then you are debating a person your own mind has created, and I will happily bow out as three is a crowd.

 

[Meriweather]

So you say you taught your family the distinction between atheism and agnosticism

I said no such thing.

My family already new the distinction between the two. My experiences simply changed their minds. They were hard atheists long before I appeared on the scene.

 

[Meriweather]

Your faith is forcing you to pretend to condone evils. You don't reallly because you're not an evil person. But you still owe it to others, an interpretation of your bible that can brush away the evil.

Again, you are determining what I am doing when you haven't a clue as to my faith, my beliefs, and most importantly, my knowledge.

Further, I do not set myself up as judge of other people, their culture, or their history. They were faced with different realities. What we see in the Bible are laws that made difficult situations as humane as possible. We also see, that like today, the "clever" found loopholes in these laws.

Isn't it interesting that you have concluded that you are the only one from that time to the present who has taken note of the loopholes. Even more interesting that you apparently conclude that everyone who lived at that time, or who has read the Bible thought the ages up to today has and will cling to the loopholes rather than the true letter/spirit of the law. (Teasing begins: In fact, you had to separate yourself from the Bible less you decide to own slaves, buy a slave for your slave to marry, and then keep the slave's wife once he is freed but the wife has not yet earned her freedom.)

 

[Donald H]

Are you speaking of the laws set forth in Exodus regarding slavery? For example, a man who bought a female slave for himself or his son, that woman became a wife and had the same social standing as her husband.

Yes, the filth spoken in Exodus 21 will do. Study that all by yourself for as long as you like.
As long as you're in denial there's nothing more to gain from a discussion on evil for which you can't possibly apologize.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, the filth spoken in Exodus 21 will do. Study that all by yourself for as long as you like.
As long as you're in denial there's nothing more to gain from a discussion on evil for which you can't possibly apologize.

I have studied it. Nothing for me for which to apologize. It would be like apologizing for IRS loopholes of which people take advantage. I can tell you how the law meant to protect--and how it failed.

Why would you want me (or anyone) to apologize for how a law was written or failed thousands of years BCE? Do you expect me to apologize for IRS loopholes people take advantage of today? Some, even today, take advantage. For me, it works better to follow the spirit of a law.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Stop pretending that the various bibles don't condone and promote the worst evils known to humanity. If you don't then I'll exclude you from my part of this discussion.

How do they promote evil? Only Satan is the author of evil, not God. Your problem is you REFUSE to hear the truth, that God IS Holy and Just and will punish sin.