China: Why are we pretending?

[rtwngAvngr]

Why are we pretending China is a friend and empowering them with billions in trade when they are a totalitarian fascist nation which supports other totalitarian nations?

 

[NuclearWinter]

Why are we pretending China is a friend and empowering them with billions in trade when they are a totalitarian fascist nation which supports other totalitarian nations?

lol.

Notice how no one can answer that question with total sincerity.

It's because there is no good reason. There never could be.

It's all BS folks. All of it. Bush sits there and says, "We are fighting them over there so that we don't have to fight them here", when he talks about Iraq.

Meanwhile, he allows for a million illegals to cross our border every year. Drug smugglers, rapists, thiefs, and gang-members are all a part of those crossers. So whats his excuse for that one? Is he letting them all come here so that we don't have keep them in Mexico? lol.

It's a joke. It's the "Controller's" chessboard folks. And the bigger countries are their chesspieces. When are the majority going to realize that? Things just need to change.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Things just need to change.

shhhhhhhhhh!!!!! This is a right-wing conservative board. Talk like that makes folks here panic.






PS: Hey, I noticed we both have a negative rep.

 

[insein]

shhhhhhhhhh!!!!! This is a right-wing conservative board. Talk like that makes folks here panic.






PS: Hey, I noticed we both have a negative rep.

I guess you havent been here long enough to read threads or maybe you just can't read. Many of the things he's said has been said by conservatives on this board for about a year or 2 now. But im sure the openminded individual that you are wasn't jumping to conclusions about stereotypes. That'd be awful "mean-spirited" and "closedminded" of you.

 

[NuclearWinter]

Insein when I posted about the "majority" I was referring to the entire World. Not this board alone.

 

[insein]

As for China, I think we can have a good relationship with China if we stop trying to dictate to them how to run their country. We have good trade relations with China and once they become mass consumers as capitalism spreads there, we could possibly exploit that to our benefit (if American companies are smart enough).

The reason we are in places like Iraq and Afhanistan is because they have a lack of government and a lack of control. They make back door deals with direct enemies of our country and endanger our main energy resource (like it or not this country runs on oil for the time being).

China is different. They arent some backwater 3rd world country. They have nukes. They have a well run army and they outnumber us like 8 to 1 in man power. That alone is the reason we don't fuck with China. In return China doesnt fuck with us because we do alot of business with them.

What we need to do is stop worrying about their human rights violations and all this petty nonsense. It's their country and they will decide on their own how they will progress. Their people will decide either through revolution or slow capitalistic take over. We need to start making stuff that they can use, like food and textiles and basic products that we take for granted. China out produces us on so much basic stuff and we are their biggest customer. We need to start selling stuff back to them and take advantage of this relationship. Countries are far less likely to drop a nuke on another country if that country is buying trillions of dollars worth of stuff every year.

 

[insein]

Insein when I posted about the "majority" I was referring to the entire World. Not this board alone.

I was referring more to charleston's comment. Not yours. You reflect alot of the opinions of many conservatives on this board. We are certainly not happy with the border, especially the number of criminals coming from Mexico. Plus we are extremely disatisfied with the lack of concern from Bush. Only recently has he thought that his amnesty idea was "not so good for the time" mainly because of the poll numbers. Selling out to illegals is not what people agree with in this country.

 

[NuclearWinter]

As for China, I think we can have a good relationship with China if we stop trying to dictate to them how to run their country. We have good trade relations with China and once they become mass consumers as capitalism spreads there, we could possibly exploit that to our benefit (if American companies are smart enough).

The reason we are in places like Iraq and Afhanistan is because they have a lack of government and a lack of control. They make back door deals with direct enemies of our country and endanger our main energy resource (like it or not this country runs on oil for the time being).

China is different. They arent some backwater 3rd world country. They have nukes. They have a well run army and they outnumber us like 8 to 1 in man power. That alone is the reason we don't fuck with China. In return China doesnt fuck with us because we do alot of business with them.

What we need to do is stop worrying about their human rights violations and all this petty nonsense. It's their country and they will decide on their own how they will progress. Their people will decide either through revolution or slow capitalistic take over. We need to start making stuff that they can use, like food and textiles and basic products that we take for granted. China out produces us on so much basic stuff and we are their biggest customer. We need to start selling stuff back to them and take advantage of this relationship. Countries are far less likely to drop a nuke on another country if that country is buying trillions of dollars worth of stuff every year.

I agree that the Chinese people need to overthrow their own Government through a Revolution or another.

However, we should not be trading with China at the moment period. If we are going to trade with China, and allow them to continue doing what they do, then therefore we should reinstate the Nazis and trade with them as well.

Or hell, while we're at it, let's put Saddam Hussein back in power in Iraq and start trading oil with him again. Never mind his "petty Human rights violations", hey Insein?

 

[NuclearWinter]

What we need to do is stop worrying about their human rights violations and all this petty nonsense.

Remind me never to vote for you if you ever run for office.

 

[insein]

I agree that the Chinese people need to overthrow their own Government through a Revolution or another.

However, we should not be trading with China at the moment period. If we are going to trade with China, and allow them to continue doing what they do, then therefore we should reinstate the Nazis and trade with them as well.

I disagree. Nazi's were a problem because they attacked our allies. China (so far) hasnt attacked any of our allies. They are a thorn in our side when it comes to the UN (another topic) but they have left Japan, South Korea and most of Asia alone and for the most part have left Taiwan alone. Nazi Germany was considered not America's problem until they started invading Poland, France and the rest of Europe as well as attacking Brittain. Even then it took a Japanese attack to get us into battle.

We can continue doing business with China on our terms so long as they remain "friendly" (relative term) to us and our allies.

 

[insein]

Remind me never to vote for you if you ever run for office.

Until we run china, why are we worrying about it. We can't do anything about it so why are we telling other people how to run their countries when it doesnt affect us directly? The Chinese people have a means to change their government unlike many 3rd world nations run by thugs and criminals. China has a communist dictatorship that is slowly being eroded away thanks to global media and capitalism. The will of the people will decide the future path of china.

That is not the case in Africa and the Middle East. The will of the people is stifled by the "government." That and the US has an interest in the proper running of these nations. If there was ever a doubt about China's dealings with America or with America's enemies, then China would have to be dealt with. As it stands, they arent evil like Stalin Communism (yet) so why start trouble with the only power on the planet that might rival our own.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Remind me never to vote for you if you ever run for office.

Read what he wrote again.

What we need to do is stop worrying about their human rights violations and all this petty nonsense.

He didn't say human rights violations are unimportant. He said we shouldn't be worrying about their human rights violations. And that's mainly because we can't do anything about it--not without a cataclysmic war that would cause more death and suffering on both sides than anything the chinese government currently does.

However, we should not be trading with China at the moment period. If we are going to trade with China, and allow them to continue doing what they do, then therefore we should reinstate the Nazis and trade with them as well.

Cutting trade accomplishes nothing positive. Absolutely nothing. You will rally the chinese people around the regime, you will impoverish both chinese and americans, and you will be creating a situation that is ripe for war. "If goods don't cross borders, armies will". Even if there were millions of chinese starving in the streets, do you seriously think their leaders will just step down? The history of the chinese revolution clearly shows us that the starvation of millions of their own countrymen means nothing to them.

 

[nosarcasm]

in the long run I assume capitalism and a emerging middle class will get rid of the dictatorship in China. In the short run China can create a crisis over Taiwan.

The Chinese dictators try to maintain control over the country by using nationalism to legitimize their own control over the people.

Staged rallies against Japan, threats against Taiwan.

If Taiwan should declare independence or China has a major internal crisis
they might use their modernizing military to attack somebody to rally the Chinese around the flag and around the dictators.

Hopefully the US gurantees for Taiwan and Japan will keep em under wrap.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

in the long run I assume capitalism and a emerging middle class will get rid of the dictatorship in China.

Why do you assume this? There is no evidence of this. They have no constitution guaranteeing civil rights of any kind.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Why are we pretending China is a friend and empowering them with billions in trade when they are a totalitarian fascist nation which supports other totalitarian nations?

Maybe because they hold so much US debt which, BTW was run up on Chimpy's watch.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Maybe because they hold so much US debt which, BTW was run up on Chimpy's watch.

so which democrat is against trading with china?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Read what he wrote again.



He didn't say human rights violations are unimportant. He said we shouldn't be worrying about their human rights violations. And that's mainly because we can't do anything about it--not without a cataclysmic war that would cause more death and suffering on both sides than anything the chinese government currently does.



Cutting trade accomplishes nothing positive. Absolutely nothing. You will rally the chinese people around the regime, you will impoverish both chinese and americans, and you will be creating a situation that is ripe for war. "If goods don't cross borders, armies will". Even if there were millions of chinese starving in the streets, do you seriously think their leaders will just step down? The history of the chinese revolution clearly shows us that the starvation of millions of their own countrymen means nothing to them.

I really don't care about china at this point. Making the entire world dependant upon the totalitarian chinese government is a bad idea in all ways. empowerting the regime with billions of dollars will also not make the people free.

 

[Redhots]

Why are we pretending China is a friend and empowering them with billions in trade when they are a totalitarian fascist nation which supports other totalitarian nations?

Because China buys all our debt.

Since this was already pointed out i'll add a little something extra.

If the short-sighted greedy pigs that run our country don't find a working solution to our energy needs within the next 50 years we may very well have that fight with China that you seem to be rooting for.... so why rush it?

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Why do you assume this? There is no evidence of this. They have no constitution guaranteeing civil rights of any kind.

It's true, they might not. However, if they aspire to be more than the world's sweatshop, they will need their best and brightest to stay, rather than leave the country.

Also, Britain doesn't have a written constitution. The US does, but over the past 90 years or so, ignores it. In the end, if a government wants something bad enough, they just do it. :sigh:

 

[nosarcasm]

Why do you assume this? There is no evidence of this. They have no constitution guaranteeing civil rights of any kind.

Most countries that industrialized tend to give out more power to the citizens over time to pay off the rising merchant elite. Huntington Third Wave is a good study on that.