CERN Large Hadron Collider Fires Up Tomorrow

[Grumblenuts]

Please discuss..

the theoretical discovery of a mechanism that contributes to our understanding of the origin of mass of subatomic particles,

Nothing you've read? Did you somehow miss the term "mass" being used in association with "particles" in there?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

How about you act like a grown up and at least try to defend the material you just cut & posted instead of personally attacking your interlocutor for a change?

I don't need to defend anything. I would be happy to provide you with the contacts of actual scientists with actual education amd experience in these fields. Take it up with them. I don't think it will go so well for you.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Please discuss..

Nothing you've read? Did you somehow miss the term "mass" being used in association with "particles" in there?

No,and I didn't miss your bizarre fallacy based on it, either.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I don't need to defend anything. I would be happy to provide you with the contacts of actual scientists with actual education amd experience in these fields. Take it up with them. I don't think it will go so well for you.

What a wuss. Okay, **** it. To ignore you go then. Bubbye!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What a wuss. Okay, **** it. To ignore you go then. Bubbye!

The fact that you would try to go after nonscientists on a message board -- instead of publishing your apparently brilliant and contrary ideas -- is everyone's first clue that you're kind of a fraud.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

We may never know what light is -- particle or wave? It could be both.

That said, the ones who keep discussing it as a particle gets boring.

Post-Postclassical

A wave in the ocean is a line of water molecules. So a light wave must be a line of photons.

Fractalizing, different wavelengths (colors) of light must have different velocities. Which wavelength is c?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I can almost hear the ancient Greeks tossing and groaning in their crypts witnessing how you dissemble, continuing to supply word salad rather than substance..

Beware of Geeks Boring Greeks

It's been said that if Aristotle could return to life today, he'd be able to understand all the concepts in physics since his time but not quantum theory. Since Aristotle had one of the highest IQs ever, his inability to understand Post-Classical quackery proves it is all fantasy science.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Post-Postclassical

A wave in the ocean is a line of water molecules. So a light wave must be a line of photons.

There are many kinds of waves. How the molecules in a typical water surface wave travel exactly nowhere but up and down is instructive. Fascinating fodder for meaningful discussion actually.

Fractalizing, different wavelengths (colors) of light must have different velocities.

No comprendo. Elaborate please..

Which wavelength is c?

Colors are understood to have different wavelengths and frequencies(/ periods), just not different velocities.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There are many kinds of waves. How the molecules in a typical water surface wave travel exactly nowhere but up and down is instructive. Fascinating fodder for meaningful discussion actually.

No comprendo. Elaborate please..

Colors are understood to have different wavelengths and frequencies(/ periods), just not different velocities.

The Ether and the Fourth Spatial Dimension Must Have Something to Do With This

So each molecule of water is affected by an outside force, which is transmitted to them and makes them bounce in turn, then, after going a certain distance up, they come down and displace a molecule below them. Yet when waves hit the shore, they carry the molecules forward onto the beach, as in a tide. So they must be doing that all along the route.

With light, the initial photons at the source are transmitted in a wave rather than a straight line. Why?

The different colors in a spectrum of light must have different velocities if they have different wave-lengths. I used "fractaling" to denote that. Length of wavy lines must vary because their movements up and down outside a straight line cover different distances if the different lines for the different colors would be stretched out into a straight line. The more irregular a coastline is the more shore there is. Yet the wavy colors of light all arrive at the same time and become white light, so they must have different velocities. Imagine someone directly following the bends and coves of a coastline. He would have to run faster than someone on a straight path that merely follows the general direction of the coast. The more you curve or wriggle a string, the shorter it will become from end to end.

The speed of light was measured from white light, so some of its components must have been moving faster than c to catch up.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Wow, that's a lot to cover with any decency. I'll make a start and probably finish (perhaps many posts and days) later. Let me just preface all by stating I'll just be providing my opinion on these matters for sake of brevity. Challenges consisting of linked quotes to the contrary from institutional gurus would be delightful. And I'll use your spelling of "Ether" to eliminate potential confusion.

The Ether and the Fourth Spatial Dimension Must Have Something to Do With This

Yeah, no, we're at odds already. Yes, the Ether, but I'm a one dimensional person. K.I.S.S. as Occam once said while not shaving. Space has but one dimension: space. Time is our handiest stick for measuring space, light years in particular, but angles obviously prove useful as well. I use "dimension" to indicate what's necessary to specify anything and everything we commonly relate to as spatial -- as opposed to the counterspatial realm which has none -- which, in turn, is probably why practically no one manages to even consider it possible. Pick 3 orthogonal axes radiating from a given origin point in space, then any other point can be located with just 3 time coordinates or a combination of time(s) and angle(s). Note that such use of time requires that c remain constant.

So each molecule of water is affected by an outside force, which is transmitted to them and makes them bounce in turn, then, after going a certain distance up, they come down and displace a molecule below them. Yet when waves hit the shore, they carry the molecules forward onto the beach, as in a tide. So they must be doing that all along the route.

Okay, forget the Ether for the moment. Let me clarify what's happening in classical physics terms. Just think extremely slippery ping pong balls pushing each other around since we consider water an incompressible fluid. True, the molecules (balls) generally don't just travel straight up and down -- because of factors such as the Moon's gravitational pull, river outlet cross currents, varying water depth, wind, etc.. So they can and do travel circularly, elliptically, and even spirally much of the time. Only in an ideal wave model with an ideal stone plopped dead center into a circular pool will the molecules go absolutely straight up and down due to the stone transferring the exact energy needed to produce a simple standing wave pattern on the surface.

"Transferring" being the operative word. The stone, having done its part, just sinks lamely to the bottom, its excess energy depleted. The water "medium," now possessing the stone's former energy, keeps it all moving from center to edge and back again. Just like a fundamental note plucked and sustained on a tuned guitar string.

Well there went an hour I'll never get back.. more later..

 

[Grumblenuts]

Alright, so the water becomes the energy transfer medium in the ideal pool model, meaning it goes on to solely handle all the energy transferred from the stone -- and it keeps handling it until frictional losses and so forth inevitably bleed the energy away. The guitar string becomes such a medium, handling all the energy transferred once plucked. The air then acts as a second medium which, through compression waves, transfers some of the energy from the vibrating string to one's ear components, which serially add more transfer mediums,.. until the brain finally gets the message in electrical signal form.

Hopefully that introduction will help some to better understand how light (energy) actually "travels" (is transferred) through the so-called "vacuum" of space. Energy transfer mediums do not guide otherwise independent forms of energy through them in the form of various waves. The mediums themselves transfer all of the energy through themselves. The water transfers all the energy given up by the stone through itself and by itself. A piano string transfers all the energy imparted once struck back and forth, through itself. In the next stage, the air grabs some of that energy and transfers it all by itself. The Ether therefore, being the only energy transfer medium possible in outer space, also must transfer all light energy through itself, by itself.

That said, now:

With light, the initial photons at the source are transmitted in a wave rather than a straight line. Why?

Not true at all. First off, "photons" are QM speak for the amount of light energy the Ether can handle (transfer) in one shot due to its own density. The Ether's average density is highly uniform, say throughout at least the Milky Way galaxy, except where massive bodies like black holes reside. Massive objects attract the Ether causing it to be more dense locally. Supermassive objects cause the Ether to become super dense. The Earth's mass attracts the Ether which in turn pushes us toward Earth's gravitational center. Thus gravity.. despite it always feeling like the Earth itself is pulling on us instead.

"Electrons" and "photons" are, as some fart smellers still describe them today, just "probability clouds." In other words, simply discrete amounts of energy that we regularly detect as centered at certain places at certain times. No one has ever seen either and never will because they only exist as mathematical constructs. In theory, in other words. The energy is very real. The math is indubitably correct. The supposed objects themselves? All those "dual wave/particle" thingies? Sorry, they don't exist. Never have. Einstein nearly had it right, then went off the deep end and the entire business has been FUBAR since. J.J. Thompson immediately regretted coining the term "electron" after witnessing the mess people tended to make of it.

Anyways, like all the other supposed "subatomic particles" (excluding protons and neutrons), "electrons" and "photons" are simply unique manifestations of the Ether itself. I should note here that the Ether necessarily exists throughout both space and counterspace. All energy emerges from and eventually sinks back into counterspace. All mass is confined within space. Counterspace literally means contrary to or the opposite of space. So, in a sense at least, more mass means more space and therefore more counterspace. Bigger black holes, for instance. So just to tie up this part with a fittingly ugly ribbon and bow, light does not travel anywhere. All energy (including all light energy) first gets transferred to a medium which then moves it entirely through itself in various ways.

 

[Grumblenuts]

So given the above, I'll briefly revisit this for a moment:

With light, the initial photons at the source are transmitted in a wave rather than a straight line. Why?

Again, light goes nowhere. How exactly light's initial energy gets transferred to the Ether in each case remains beyond me and likely everyone else. However, my understanding is that light's energy travels through the Ether in coaxial fashion. I picture two orthogonal sine waves, one half cycle, possibly out of phase, and all rotating so that a each portion advances spirally, akin to how coaxial cable is wired. In any case, it travels (through space) in a straight line except near large masses which, as previously mentioned, attract the Ether, so also bend any light energy it happens to be transferring. Einstein simply couldn't wrap his brain around that one -- thus "spacetime", "four dimensional space", and so forth. Next:

The different colors in a spectrum of light must have different velocities if they have different wave-lengths. I used "fractaling" to denote that. Length of wavy lines must vary because their movements up and down outside a straight line cover different distances if the different lines for the different colors would be stretched out into a straight line. The more irregular a coastline is the more shore there is. Yet the wavy colors of light all arrive at the same time and become white light, so they must have different velocities. Imagine someone directly following the bends and coves of a coastline. He would have to run faster than someone on a straight path that merely follows the general direction of the coast. The more you curve or wriggle a string, the shorter it will become from end to end.

Very interesting theory, but I've seen nothing supporting anything like it. The hardened consensus of star gazers state that all energy within the radio spectrum travels at the same speed (through a vacuum) = c. More energy generally gets transferred (say per second, for example) at higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths) which results in more interaction with and losses to any environmental interference, i.e. under non-vacuum conditions. Lastly:

The speed of light was measured from white light, so some of its components must have been moving faster than c to catch up.

We continually monitor the speed of light energy. GPS satellites must constantly self-correct due to their varying geosynchronous orbital distances from Earth.. and they don't care what color the light energy may be. For example, ultraviolet light could be used which is invisible to us. It will also pass right through a white sheet of paper aimed at the Sun. The white surface interacts with (refracts/reflects/absorbs) only the visible light portion of the entire radio wave spectrum. The Sun's energy will similarly pass through a black sheet of paper, however the black pigment absorbs far more of the visible light energy portion, causing the paper to warm.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Wow, that's a lot to cover with any decency. I'll make a start and probably finish (perhaps many posts and days) later. Let me just preface all by stating I'll just be providing my opinion on these matters for sake of brevity. Challenges consisting of linked quotes to the contrary from institutional gurus would be delightful. And I'll use your spelling of "Ether" to eliminate potential confusion.

Yeah, no, we're at odds already. Yes, the Ether, but I'm a one dimensional person. K.I.S.S. as Occam once said while not shaving. Space has but one dimension: space. Time is our handiest stick for measuring space, light years in particular, but angles obviously prove useful as well. I use "dimension" to indicate what's necessary to specify anything and everything we commonly relate to as spatial -- as opposed to the counterspatial realm which has none -- which, in turn, is probably why practically no one manages to even consider it possible. Pick 3 orthogonal axes radiating from a given origin point in space, then any other point can be located with just 3 time coordinates or a combination of time(s) and angle(s). Note that such use of time requires that c remain constant.

Okay, forget the Ether for the moment. Let me clarify what's happening in classical physics terms. Just think extremely slippery ping pong balls pushing each other around since we consider water an incompressible fluid. True, the molecules (balls) generally don't just travel straight up and down -- because of factors such as the Moon's gravitational pull, river outlet cross currents, varying water depth, wind, etc.. So they can and do travel circularly, elliptically, and even spirally much of the time. Only in an ideal wave model with an ideal stone plopped dead center into a circular pool will the molecules go absolutely straight up and down due to the stone transferring the exact energy needed to produce a simple standing wave pattern on the surface.

"Transferring" being the operative word. The stone, having done its part, just sinks lamely to the bottom, its excess energy depleted. The water "medium," now possessing the stone's former energy, keeps it all moving from center to edge and back again. Just like a fundamental note plucked and sustained on a tuned guitar string.

Well there went an hour I'll never get back.. more later..

God Said, "Let There Be Light." And a Snake Showed Up!

What makes the nerds believe that light travels in a wave and not a straight line, which can be bent by gravity but still doesn't wriggle like a snake?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Alright, so the water becomes the energy transfer medium in the ideal pool model, meaning it goes on to solely handle all the energy transferred from the stone -- and it keeps handling it until frictional losses and so forth inevitably bleed the energy away. The guitar string becomes such a medium, handling all the energy transferred once plucked. The air then acts as a second medium which, through compression waves, transfers some of the energy from the vibrating string to one's ear components, which serially add more transfer mediums,.. until the brain finally gets the message in electrical signal form.

Hopefully that introduction will help some to better understand how light (energy) actually "travels" (is transferred) through the so-called "vacuum" of space. Energy transfer mediums do not guide otherwise independent forms of energy through them in the form of various waves. The mediums themselves transfer all of the energy through themselves. The water transfers all the energy given up by the stone through itself and by itself. A piano string transfers all the energy imparted once struck back and forth, through itself. In the next stage, the air grabs some of that energy and transfers it all by itself. The Ether therefore, being the only energy transfer medium possible in outer space, also must transfer all light energy through itself, by itself.

That said, now:

Not true at all. First off, "photons" are QM speak for the amount of light energy the Ether can handle (transfer) in one shot due to its own density. The Ether's average density is highly uniform, say throughout at least the Milky Way galaxy, except where massive bodies like black holes reside. Massive objects attract the Ether causing it to be more dense locally. Supermassive objects cause the Ether to become super dense. The Earth's mass attracts the Ether which in turn pushes us toward Earth's gravitational center. Thus gravity.. despite it always feeling like the Earth itself is pulling on us instead.

"Electrons" and "photons" are, as some fart smellers still describe them today, just "probability clouds." In other words, simply discrete amounts of energy that we regularly detect as centered at certain places at certain times. No one has ever seen either and never will because they only exist as mathematical constructs. In theory, in other words. The energy is very real. The math is indubitably correct. The supposed objects themselves? All those "dual wave/particle" thingies? Sorry, they don't exist. Never have. Einstein nearly had it right, then went off the deep end and the entire business has been FUBAR since. J.J. Thompson immediately regretted coining the term "electron" after witnessing the mess people tended to make of it.

Anyways, like all the other supposed "subatomic particles" (excluding protons and neutrons), "electrons" and "photons" are simply unique manifestations of the Ether itself. I should note here that the Ether necessarily exists throughout both space and counterspace. All energy emerges from and eventually sinks back into counterspace. All mass is confined within space. Counterspace literally means contrary to or the opposite of space. So, in a sense at least, more mass means more space and therefore more counterspace. Bigger black holes, for instance. So just to tie up this part with a fittingly ugly ribbon and bow, light does not travel anywhere. All energy (including all light energy) first gets transferred to a medium which then moves it entirely through itself in various ways.

Ether's Tank Full of Ethyl

If the ether gets thicker, then whatever travels through it must get slower. That theory also means that the ether is composed of particles separated by truly empty space (nothingness) which could be compressed without being squeezed out into anywhere. The thicker the ether, the less space between ether-particles.

As for counterspace, that is an outside universe from which all energy, mass, light, and ether came. The Big Bang was just an eruption from a Black Hole in that universe. Our own universe's Black Holes send it back; the model of a continuously compressed object is an impossible concentration of matter. So is their fantasy of a Singularity preceding the Big Bang.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

So given the above, I'll briefly revisit this for a moment:

Again, light goes nowhere. How exactly light's initial energy gets transferred to the Ether in each case remains beyond me and likely everyone else. However, my understanding is that light's energy travels through the Ether in coaxial fashion. I picture two orthogonal sine waves, one half cycle, possibly out of phase, and all rotating so that a each portion advances spirally, akin to how coaxial cable is wired. In any case, it travels (through space) in a straight line except near large masses which, as previously mentioned, attract the Ether, so also bend any light energy it happens to be transferring. Einstein simply couldn't wrap his brain around that one -- thus "spacetime", "four dimensional space", and so forth. Next:

Very interesting theory, but I've seen nothing supporting anything like it. The hardened consensus of star gazers state that all energy within the radio spectrum travels at the same speed (through a vacuum) = c. More energy generally gets transferred (say per second, for example) at higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths) which results in more interaction with and losses to any environmental interference, i.e. under non-vacuum conditions. Lastly:

We continually monitor the speed of light energy. GPS satellites must constantly self-correct due to their varying geosynchronous orbital distances from Earth.. and they don't care what color the light energy may be. For example, ultraviolet light could be used which is invisible to us. It will also pass right through a white sheet of paper aimed at the Sun. The white surface interacts with (refracts/reflects/absorbs) only the visible light portion of the entire radio wave spectrum. The Sun's energy will similarly pass through a black sheet of paper, however the black pigment absorbs far more of the visible light energy portion, causing the paper to warm.

Light Is a Particle of the Original Substance

You're too hung up on the fact that the Moon is bright only because it passes on light. I don't believe that the ether, likewise, passes on light energy. Instead, photon masses pass through it.

 

[Grumblenuts]

God Said, "Let There Be Light." And a Snake Showed Up!

What makes the nerds believe that light travels in a wave and not a straight line, which can be bent by gravity but still doesn't wriggle like a snake?

The Ether definitely transports light energy, as it does all energy, in wave form. Why does that notion trouble you? Does a guitar string vibrating also suggest a snake to you? The energy still does travel in a straight line until disturbed by something in or along its path such as, indeed, gravity. "Waves" is a confusing description. Cyclical would be a better way of describing it. In any case, it's how Mother Nature (the Ether) prefers doing it. Coaxially,.. or hyperboloidic to coin a new term.

 

[Grumblenuts]

If the ether gets thicker, then whatever travels through it must get slower. That theory also means that the ether is composed of particles separated by truly empty space (nothingness) which could be compressed without being squeezed out into anywhere. The thicker the ether, the less space between ether-particles.

There's nothing "particle" about the Ether and no space could exist without it. Why do you suppose Schrodinger's Cat never has to endure the abuse of being called "a particle"?

In the thought experiment, a hypothetical cat may be considered simultaneously both alive and dead as a result of its fate being linked to a random subatomic event that may or may not occur. Wikipedia

Both space and counterspace are products of the Ether. Space free of mass is as empty as empty ever gets. No theoretical vacuum could suck the Ether out of anything. It's ubiquitous. Mother Nature doesn't play such games.

 

[Grumblenuts]

As for counterspace, that is an outside universe

Nope, same universe. And no idea what you've been smoking regarding the rest of that post, but it must be pretty good.

Light Is a Particle of the Original Substance

You're too hung up on the fact that the Moon is bright only because it passes on light. I don't believe that the ether, likewise, passes on light energy. Instead, photon masses pass through it.

Whatever floats you dinghy. I can only lead you to the water surface waves..

 

[the other mike]

The facts are: CERN's Large Hadron Collider fires up on July 5th after a hiatus of some time. They're going to smash some particles together and watch what happens.

The conspiracies are mostly from Stranger Things fans I guess, a show I never watched (though, as a long time Kate Bush fan, the new interest in her is something else). However, being an amateur space nut, you do wonder if this rips a portal through spacetime.

My response: okay. Things are pretty well screwed here anyway.

The Large Hadron Collider Is About to Ramp Up to Unprecedented Energy Levels

Ten years after it discovered the Higgs boson, the Large Hadron Collider is about to start smashing protons together at unprecedented energy levels in its quest to reveal more secrets about how the universe works.

www.sciencealert.com

Check out the movie Angels and Demons with Tom Hanks where they show the Hadron Collider in Switzerland and they create the smallest form of antimatter inside a glass vessel.

 

[the other mike]

"We have antimatter!" The mad scientist proclaimed.
" We are in God's hands now."