Celebrate Osama's Death?

[Foxfyre]

I've better things to celebrate. This man isn't worth my time.

But I'm impressed with the American military personnel who hit a compound near Pakistani military bases without even waking any of them up.

Yes. Appreciating, respecting, and approving the military action from the intelligence that made it possible to the President's order to the actual execution of the mission--that I can share.

But celebrating the deaths however necessary they were just feels wrong to me.

 

[Montrovant]

I have had mixed emotions on this. There have been few things that have happened in this country that have made me as angry as 9/11. And I do believe that those who do evil must be held responsible and accountable including whatever punishment is appropriate. What Osama bin Laden has done is certainly worthy of the death penalty. Knowing that his evil was removed from the earth felt very right.

But then I think of the disgust and anger I feel at people who rejoice at death of Americans and how revolting their celebrations in the street appear to me.

And I look at celebrations in the street in the USA at the death of Osama bin Laden, and wonder how that is any different.

I understand what you are saying, but there IS a difference.

The people celebrating Bin Laden's death believe he was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans. People celebrating things like 9/11 are at best celebrating the deaths of people indirectly responsible for wrongs. It is a small but very important distinction, I think.

I didn't celebrate Bin Laden's death, but I don't care if others did. I'm glad he's dead.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have had mixed emotions on this. There have been few things that have happened in this country that have made me as angry as 9/11. And I do believe that those who do evil must be held responsible and accountable including whatever punishment is appropriate. What Osama bin Laden has done is certainly worthy of the death penalty. Knowing that his evil was removed from the earth felt very right.

But then I think of the disgust and anger I feel at people who rejoice at death of Americans and how revolting their celebrations in the street appear to me.

And I look at celebrations in the street in the USA at the death of Osama bin Laden, and wonder how that is any different.

I understand what you are saying, but there IS a difference.

The people celebrating Bin Laden's death believe he was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans. People celebrating things like 9/11 are at best celebrating the deaths of people indirectly responsible for wrongs. It is a small but very important distinction, I think.

I didn't celebrate Bin Laden's death, but I don't care if others did. I'm glad he's dead.

I can appreciate that we Americans can see a difference.

But from the perspective of the people celebrating American deaths, they see it as divine retribution for imperialism, for the wrongful deaths of Muslims, for supporting an "evil' Israel, for intruding on Arab lands or whatever. However misguided or wrong or fanatical we know that view to be, it is nevertheless their perspective. And we feel it is very wrong to rejoice in the deaths of our countrymen, most especially if it should be a national hero.

I still remember the grief, anger, rage, revulsion when our soldiers were killed, burned, and hung in effagy during our initial raid on Fallujah. The same for treatment of our fallen soldiers in Somalia. And yet those doing it saw our guys as the evil ones. The enemy.

So maybe I see celebrating in the streets over the deaths of an enemy as rubbing salt in the wound or something like that. Anyhow, I would like to think we are different than others.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Foxfyre
But from the perspective of the people celebrating American deaths, they see it as divine retribution for imperialism, for the wrongful deaths of Muslims, for supporting an "evil' Israel, for intruding on Arab lands or whatever.

Your posts offer a shinning example of the communication barrier that exists between the America and the Middle East.

You create outstanding threads denouncing the totalitarianism of Bin Laden's ideology, the oppressive nature of theocratic states.

But at the same time you try and justify the existence of a Jewish state racist to the core, that prevents the palestinian people from returning to their places of origin and keeps them herded in ethnic enclaves like Gaza.

If you, member of the United States Message Board, have trouble understanding why so many arabs just can't see what's wrong with imposing religious laws on the whole of society stop for a moment and take a good look at yourself...

Just like your arab counterpart is unable to understand such an obvious concept (the authoritarian nature of theocracies) you simply cannot understand what's wrong with keeping the Jewish people safe through the oppression and discrimination of the Palestinian people!!

Average americans like Foxfyre, editec, Gadfly, Grace, High Gravity, Political Chic who support the existence of the jewish racial dictatorship are the mirror image of muslims like Sunni Man, Kalam who don't have any problem supporting a dictatorial religious state based on islamic laws.

This is the fundamental cause of the "dialogue of deafs" that has been preventing an open, frank dialogue between the West and the Middle East to erradicate jewish racism and religious fundamentalism from that part of the world.

 

[High_Gravity]

Jose where have you been hiding at? we never see you here anymore.

 

[Foxfyre]

Originally posted by Foxfyre
But from the perspective of the people celebrating American deaths, they see it as divine retribution for imperialism, for the wrongful deaths of Muslims, for supporting an "evil' Israel, for intruding on Arab lands or whatever.

Your posts offer a shinning example of the communication barrier that exists between the America and the Middle East.

You create outstanding threads denouncing the totalitarianism of Bin Laden's ideology, the oppressive nature of theocratic states.

But at the same time you try and justify the existence of a Jewish state racist to the core, that prevents the palestinian people from returning to their places of origin and keeps them herded in ethnic enclaves like Gaza.

If you, member of the United States Message Board, have trouble understanding why so many arabs just can't see what's wrong with imposing religious laws on the whole of society stop for a moment and take a good look at yourself...

Just like your arab counterpart is unable to understand such an obvious concept (the authoritarian nature of theocracies) you simply cannot understand what's wrong with keeping the Jewish people safe through the oppression and discrimination of the Palestinian people!!

Average americans like Foxfyre, editec, Gadfly, Grace, High Gravity, Political Chic who support the existence of the jewish racial dictatorship are the mirror image of muslims like Sunni Man, Kalam who don't have any problem supporting a dictatorial religious state based on islamic laws.

This is the fundamental cause of the "dialogue of deafs" that has been preventing an open, frank dialogue between the West and the Middle East to erradicate jewish racism and religious fundamentalism from that part of the world.

That is your perspective.

My perspective is not that Israel is racist because there is zero indication that is. I see Israel as a refuge for displaced Jews who were denied basic rights in other places. But you do illustrate how anti-Israel, most especially Muslim anti-Israel types look at anything bad happening in or to Israel as justified because you will not look at the total history but only that which favors your chosen point of view of the Palestinians' plight.

So would you think it appropriate to dance in the street and rejoice when Israelis are injured or murdered? Many Muslims do just that.

Just because a person is misguided, directed by flawed history, caught up in fanatical jihad, or whatever, does not negate their anger or grief when they believe themselves wronged.

Good people cannot stand by and watch wrongs be perpetuated just because of some P.C. crapola. But sometimes a little shared sensitivity can't hurt either.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Foxfyre
That is your perspective.

My perspective is not that Israel is racist because there is zero indication that is.

1,5 million palestinian refugees claiming their right to live in Western Palestine is not a "perspective", Fox, it's a cold, hard fact.

I'm fully aware of the terrible consequences of the dismantling of Israel. Millions of israeli jews leaving the Middle East just like millions of white South Africans left SA before them.

But nothing justifies the denial of the right of the palestinian people to live in the western part of their homeland.

 

[José]

Sunni Man and Kalam (meaning the average muslim) being unable to understand what's wrong with religious dictatorships, aka, theocracies.

Foxfyre and Political Chic (meaning the average american) being unable to understand what's wrong with creating a homeland for the jewish people through the denial of the right of the palestinian people to live in what's also their historical homeland.

The parallel between the average muslim and the average american couldn't be more exact.

As long as this breakdown in communication persists it will be impossible to even start a "dialogue between civilisations" in order to try to bring an end to the scourge of islamic terrorism.

 

[José]

Originally posted by High Gravity
Jose where have you been hiding at? we never see you here anymore.

We all take a break from the virtual world now and then, bro. Take care of rl shit.

Hope everything is fine with ya. Still chasing hot Latinas like there was no tomorrow??

You and JW Frogen are probably the biggest horndogs on the face of the planet since Barry White left us.

 

[Foxfyre]

Originally posted by Foxfyre
That is your perspective.

My perspective is not that Israel is racist because there is zero indication that is.

1,5 million palestinian refugees claiming their right to live in Western Palestine is not a "perspective", Fox, it's a cold, hard fact.

I'm fully aware of the terrible consequences of the dismantling of Israel. Millions of israeli jews leaving the Middle East just like millions of white South Africans left SA before them.

But nothing justifies the denial of the right of the palestinian people to live in the western part of their homeland.

There are several million Mexicans who 'claim' the right to the southwestern U.S. states. There are a lot of Native Americans who 'claim' the right to all of North America. There are a lot of Iraqis who 'claim' that Kuwait is part of Iraq. So should anybody who once occupied any land at any time be able to reclaim that land many generations later? Sure gonna be a mess throughout the Middle East, almost all of Africa, in all of Europe, in all of South and North America if that is the case.

When the UK and the United Nations carved out a tiny piece of real estate for refugee Jews, the Palestinians living there were given every right to stay with full rights enjoyed by all. But many left to make room for their neighbors to destroy Israel so they could have it all. Those who stayed and their progeny are now happy and prosperous full citizens of Israel. Those who fled with the intention that Israel be destroyed are naturally not welcomed back. More especially since they have since engaged in murder, kidnapping, suicide bombings of school busses and crowded markets, and have consistently pledged to destroy Israel and have done their best to kill as many Israelis as they can with rockets.

Wouldn't it really be nuts to invite into your country those committed to destroying you? If you believe that, shouldn't we invite al Qaida to have its way with us?

At such time as the Palestinian leadership declares peaceful relations with Israel, denounces all terrorist actiivities, and does its damndest to bring to justice any who violate that edict, I will expect Israel to be good neighbors to the Palestinians. Until then, no. They cannot survive by befriending people committed to driving them out or destroying them.

At such time as al Qaida denounces all terrorist activities, commits to living in peace with the USA, and does its damndest to bring to justice any who would violate the peace, we should burn our 'most wanted' list and accept the peace. Until then, no. We will not survive by embracing and acquiescing to those committed to destroying us.

 

[Avatar4321]

Sorry, but I hardly consider the Palestinians in the West Bank to be Refugees. They've been there for decades. More than enough time to not only build a great civilization, but to thrive.

Nor is Israel the problem. They've offered the Palestinians help numerous times to build, they've offered land for peace, they've given everything they've wanted. But the Palestinian Leadership wants genocide. They don't care about the people, either the Palestinians or the Israelis.

Maybe I have trouble having sympathy for the Palestinians because my forefathers were refugees. They were kicked out of place after place, only to turn around and rebuild bigger and better than before within a matter of years. If they had been offered what the Palestinians had been, they would have gladly accepted and lived in peace with their neighbors. But they were never given the chance. Nor did they act like a victim. They accepted it and moved on with life.

 

[logical4u]

Should Americans have taken to the streets to celebrate the end of World War II?
This is a war that is not against a country so there will never be a surrender or a clear end.

This was one "battle"; it was not the "war". It was an important battle, but we are not finished. Osama's son that wrote growing up Osama said that his father was mild, compared to the people that worshipped him (added worshipped). Now they will have their opportunity to lead and it will not be "pretty" or "peaceful". Therefore there is little to compare to the celebration at the end of the war. NYC and DC both had reason (their cities were attacked) to celebrate the threat from this man was removed (not his death).

 

[Foxfyre]

Should Americans have taken to the streets to celebrate the end of World War II?
This is a war that is not against a country so there will never be a surrender or a clear end.

This was one "battle"; it was not the "war". It was an important battle, but we are not finished. Osama's son that wrote growing up Osama said that his father was mild, compared to the people that worshipped him (added worshipped). Now they will have their opportunity to lead and it will not be "pretty" or "peaceful". Therefore there is little to compare to the celebration at the end of the war. NYC and DC both had reason (their cities were attacked) to celebrate the threat from this man was removed (not his death).

Also there is a world of difference between celebrating the end of hostilities, death, and destruction and celebrating that somebody was killed.

 

[logical4u]

Originally posted by Foxfyre
But from the perspective of the people celebrating American deaths, they see it as divine retribution for imperialism, for the wrongful deaths of Muslims, for supporting an "evil' Israel, for intruding on Arab lands or whatever.

Your posts offer a shinning example of the communication barrier that exists between the America and the Middle East.

You create outstanding threads denouncing the totalitarianism of Bin Laden's ideology, the oppressive nature of theocratic states.

But at the same time you try and justify the existence of a Jewish state racist to the core, that prevents the palestinian people from returning to their places of origin and keeps them herded in ethnic enclaves like Gaza.

If you, member of the United States Message Board, have trouble understanding why so many arabs just can't see what's wrong with imposing religious laws on the whole of society stop for a moment and take a good look at yourself...

Just like your arab counterpart is unable to understand such an obvious concept (the authoritarian nature of theocracies) you simply cannot understand what's wrong with keeping the Jewish people safe through the oppression and discrimination of the Palestinian people!!

Average americans like Foxfyre, editec, Gadfly, Grace, High Gravity, Political Chic who support the existence of the jewish racial dictatorship are the mirror image of muslims like Sunni Man, Kalam who don't have any problem supporting a dictatorial religious state based on islamic laws.

This is the fundamental cause of the "dialogue of deafs" that has been preventing an open, frank dialogue between the West and the Middle East to erradicate jewish racism and religious fundamentalism from that part of the world.

You "might" have a point if there was any other place in the world where Jews were "welcome". They have been persecuted everywhere they have lived. You might have a point if "muslims" had not forceably conquered Israel and persecuted the Jews that chose to stay there. Please list the muslim countries that allow "Jews" to have the same rights they demand for the Palestinians.

The Palestinians, as Arabs, are not welcome in neighboring countries, as a "people". They never have been. Israel, invited them to participate (and many Palestinians became productive citizens of Israel), but the radical element decided that was not enough, and have since condemned the majority of Palestinians to relying on handouts (and living in poverty) from the UN that is filtered thru the leadership (that takes the lion's share for their own greed: Yassir was the world's sixth wealthiest man when he was alive). The difference between the "west" ideals and the ideals of muslim governments is: the west wants every person to have freedom, the ME wants every person to have death (either by the hand of the "devout" practicing their faith, or the devout dying in the practice of their faith)

 

[LumpyPostage]

Average americans like Foxfyre, editec, Gadfly, Grace, High Gravity, Political Chic who support the existence of the jewish racial dictatorship are the mirror image of muslims like Sunni Man, Kalam who don't have any problem supporting a dictatorial religious state based on islamic laws.

One major difference is that the Jewish "racial dictatorship" is elected by the people. How many Arab states have heads of government elected by the people?

Judaism and Islam have many similarities. Democracies and dictatorships less so.

 

[LumpyPostage]

I'm fully aware of the terrible consequences of the dismantling of Israel. Millions of israeli jews leaving the Middle East just like millions of white South Africans left SA before them.

But nothing justifies the denial of the right of the palestinian people to live in the western part of their homeland.

Nobody is calling for the complete annihilation of every last white South Afrikan man, woman and child. Except maybe Zuma.

Palestinians are welcome in Palestine with open arms.

 

[LumpyPostage]

Maybe I have trouble having sympathy for the Palestinians because my forefathers were refugees. They were kicked out of place after place, only to turn around and rebuild bigger and better than before within a matter of years. If they had been offered what the Palestinians had been, they would have gladly accepted and lived in peace with their neighbors. But they were never given the chance. Nor did they act like a victim. They accepted it and moved on with life.

I have endless sympathy for Palestinians. But how many homelands does one group of people need?

 

[Foxfyre]

Average americans like Foxfyre, editec, Gadfly, Grace, High Gravity, Political Chic who support the existence of the jewish racial dictatorship are the mirror image of muslims like Sunni Man, Kalam who don't have any problem supporting a dictatorial religious state based on islamic laws.

One major difference is that the Jewish "racial dictatorship" is elected by the people. How many Arab states have heads of government elected by the people?

Judaism and Islam have many similarities. Democracies and dictatorships less so.

Further, not only does Israel recognize individual rights, there are Arabs represented in the Israeli Knesset. How many Jews are placed in leadership positions in any other Middle Eastern or Muslim nation? How many Muslim or Middle Eastern nations recognize unalienable rights? Or human rights at all?

Should Israel give up its Jewish majority in order to accommodate Palestinians or any other Arabs, Israel would cease to exist. No existing Arab or Muslim nation has anywhere near the risk in giving up its ethnic majority.

 

[logical4u]

Originally posted by Foxfyre
But from the perspective of the people celebrating American deaths, they see it as divine retribution for imperialism, for the wrongful deaths of Muslims, for supporting an "evil' Israel, for intruding on Arab lands or whatever.

Your posts offer a shinning example of the communication barrier that exists between the America and the Middle East.

You create outstanding threads denouncing the totalitarianism of Bin Laden's ideology, the oppressive nature of theocratic states.

But at the same time you try and justify the existence of a Jewish state racist to the core, that prevents the palestinian people from returning to their places of origin and keeps them herded in ethnic enclaves like Gaza.

If you, member of the United States Message Board, have trouble understanding why so many arabs just can't see what's wrong with imposing religious laws on the whole of society stop for a moment and take a good look at yourself...

Just like your arab counterpart is unable to understand such an obvious concept (the authoritarian nature of theocracies) you simply cannot understand what's wrong with keeping the Jewish people safe through the oppression and discrimination of the Palestinian people!!

Average americans like Foxfyre, editec, Gadfly, Grace, High Gravity, Political Chic who support the existence of the jewish racial dictatorship are the mirror image of muslims like Sunni Man, Kalam who don't have any problem supporting a dictatorial religious state based on islamic laws.

This is the fundamental cause of the "dialogue of deafs" that has been preventing an open, frank dialogue between the West and the Middle East to erradicate jewish racism and religious fundamentalism from that part of the world.

Where do "Average americans like Foxfyre, editec, Gadfly, Grace, High Gravity, Political Chic" advocate the genocide of all muslims?

 

[xsited1]

I have to say, I'm sort of appalled by how unhinged the left is by Osama's death.

I don't see his death as a cause for jubilation. For one thing, I'm not one of the retards who thinks that Osama was our primary threat. He's one of MANY, and taking him out at this point isn't going to make much of a difference. I think radical Islam knew he was on borrowed time a long time ago, and subsequently many others stepped up to the plate to take his place so that when the inevitable happened, it would make no difference to them.

My hunch is that the celebration in front of the White House after Obama's speech was staged.