CBO: Biden $15 An Hour Minimum Wage Will Cost 1.4 Million American Jobs

[danielpalos]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage...either make something else or make them yourself.

If the workers add $10 an hour in value, what should their wage be?

How are you calculating value? How much can you afford to pay labor and still have a healthy bottom line.

 

[danielpalos]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage...either make something else or make them yourself. Oh you can't make enough?

NOW you see the value of their labor. Pay them accordingly

As I stated earlier, you are only worth as much as your employer can pay another worker to the same job and quality of work you do. It's what we all are worth. How am I supposed to pay them more when you go to the store and buy lower priced products over mine? Explain that one to me.

Employers are price takers not price makers when it comes to statutory regulatory costs.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage...either make something else or make them yourself.

If the workers add $10 an hour in value, what should their wage be?

How are you calculating value? How much can you afford to pay labor and still have a healthy bottom line.

How are you calculating value?

If you take $10 worth of material and an hour of labor to make a $20 product, you added $10 in value.

How much should your wages be?

 

[danielpalos]

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage...either make something else or make them yourself.

If the workers add $10 an hour in value, what should their wage be?

How are you calculating value? How much can you afford to pay labor and still have a healthy bottom line.

How are you calculating value?

If you take $10 worth of material and an hour of labor to make a $20 product, you added $10 in value.

How much should your wages be?

Cut management costs. How much should wages be?

 

[Lesh]

If you take $10 worth of material and an hour of labor to make a $20 product, you added $10 in value.

How much should your wages be?

That's the entire equation?

No rent/lease? No taxes? No energy costs? No water costs? No management costs?

 

[odanny]

Me, because mine are higher quality, and yours are shit. Walmart and Target initially went with you, but after a slew of negative reviews, complaints, and returns by customers, they decided to go with mine. You still sell yours on Amazon, but most get 1 star reviews.

If the American consumer cared about quality, we wouldn't have half the Chinese crap in our houses that we have today. When it comes to widgets, there is only one way to make them. They are not a work of art. It's like paying a guy to turn nuts onto bolts. If you pay your worker $17.00 per hour to turn nuts onto bolts, and I'm paying my worker $9.00 to turn nuts onto bolts, your worker is not going to turn them any better than mine.

Actually, the widgets, if made in the U.S.A., will likely be three times the cost of Chinese made widgets, but if you and I are both making them and I have better production practices and engineering with my widgets, who do you think the U.S. Government is going to buy their widgets from? Who do you think the Big 3 are going to buy their widgets from? Who do you think Boeing will get their widgets from?

And to hop on to another of your posts about the guy from GM sitting at home drawing a pension, in a nearby town, 20% of every years budget is going towards pension costs. Who is drawing those pensions? City employees, namely police, fire, and city government workers. Probably 80% or more are Republican. So they like filling at the trough as well. In order to offset this cost, the city residents get a bill every year for $40, to pay for these pensions, all with the standard 3.5% increase (how often I don't know) and if you think any of the Big 3 still offer pensions, you're mistaken. That's a relic from a bygone era. They did away with them, just like my employer has, but I'm one of the lucky ones, I've been there long enough to still get one, but it's paltry compared to what the old timers got.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you take $10 worth of material and an hour of labor to make a $20 product, you added $10 in value.

How much should your wages be?

That's the entire equation?

No rent/lease? No taxes? No energy costs? No water costs? No management costs?

No rent/lease?

Nope.

No taxes?

Can't calculate taxes until we determine profit.

How much should your wages be?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Actually, the widgets, if made in the U.S.A., will likely be three times the cost of Chinese made widgets, but if you and I are both making them and I have better production practices and engineering with my widgets, who do you think the U.S. Government is going to buy their widgets from? Who do you think the Big 3 are going to buy their widgets from? Who do you think Boeing will get their widgets from?

And to hop on to another of your posts about the guy from GM sitting at home drawing a pension, in a nearby town, 20% of every years budget is going towards pension costs. Who is drawing those pensions? City employees, namely police, fire, and city government workers. Probably 80% or more are Republican. So they like filling at the trough as well. In order to offset this cost, the city residents get a bill every year for $40, to pay for these pensions, all with the standard 3.5% increase (how often I don't know) and if you think any of the Big 3 still offer pensions, you're mistaken. That's a relic from a bygone era. They did away with them, just like my employer has, but I'm one of the lucky ones, I've been there long enough to still get one, but it's paltry compared to what the old timers got.

Correct, that's why they are legacy costs. They don't pay people like they used to because they can't. They'll eventually have to go out of business from lack of customers. However those workers are still alive and if you are buying an American made car, you are still paying for their benefits.

The big three will be buying widgets off of me because lower priced widgets is what the American consumers want.

 

[Lesh]

If you take $10 worth of material and an hour of labor to make a $20 product, you added $10 in value.

How much should your wages be?

That's the entire equation?

No rent/lease? No taxes? No energy costs? No water costs? No management costs?

No rent/lease?

Nope.

No taxes?

Can't calculate taxes until we determine profit.

How much should your wages be?

You obviously never ran a business. Rent and estimated taxes aren't part of your calculations? No energy costs? No managerial coats?

Pfffttt

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Labor is a cost just as electricity or raw materials are a cost.

Now you can use inferior material but that's going to affect your price point. But you can't stiff the energy company and neither should you be able to stiff your employees. When you pay less than a living wage you are stiffing your employees. Minimum wages laws are put in place to prevent that but they have been politically manipulated in such a way that they aren't doing what they are intended to do.

How are you stiffing your employees? I have a job opening. You apply for the job. I tell you how much it pays, what's involved, what shifts I have open, and what benefits I provide. You have the option to accept the offer or decline. If I provide everything I promised to you in our verbal contract, how am I stiffing you?

If you can get the same material at a cheaper price, you are going to buy your material from the person that has the lowest price. Any business would. If I need a person to drill holes in metal plates at my machine shop, Why would I pay somebody $20.00 an hour if I can get somebody for $11.00 an hour? Are the drill holes going to be any better from the $20.00 drill press operator?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Rent and estimated taxes aren't part of your calculations?

If there isn't enough left over after taking into account materials and wages, rent and taxes won't matter. To make you happy, I'll add rent.

If you take $10,000 worth of material and 1000 hours of labor to make $20,000 in products and rent is $1000, how much should your wages be?

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah, that is what they said about a seven dollar an hour min wage.

Yeah, and did you miss.... 2007 through about 2014? They were right about that seven dollar minimum wage.

 

[Andylusion]

If you take $10 worth of material and an hour of labor to make a $20 product, you added $10 in value.

How much should your wages be?

That's the entire equation?

No rent/lease? No taxes? No energy costs? No water costs? No management costs?

See you are actually making the point that I would make. All of those aspects have a cost. All of them do.

There are so many factors that go into how much money an employer pays for labor, that it would be impossible for one person to calculate what the "optimum" wage should be.

Even if... and this is a big if.... even if you could figure out exactly how much a person should be paid for a specific job, at a specific place, for a specific situation, that would be limited to only the exact situation you calculated it for.

Meaning, the moment you change location, or market, from one job to another job, from one town to another town, from one state to another state... all those factors that you calculated for, go right out the window.

You don't know. That's the answer. You don't know what is the best wage for any given situation, and no one does except for the employee, and the employer.

 

[Lesh]

If there isn't enough left over after taking into account materials and wages, rent and taxes won't matter

Said no business owner...ever

Go away

 

[Andylusion]

Me, because mine are higher quality, and yours are shit. Walmart and Target initially went with you, but after a slew of negative reviews, complaints, and returns by customers, they decided to go with mine. You still sell yours on Amazon, but most get 1 star reviews.

If the American consumer cared about quality, we wouldn't have half the Chinese crap in our houses that we have today. When it comes to widgets, there is only one way to make them. They are not a work of art. It's like paying a guy to turn nuts onto bolts. If you pay your worker $17.00 per hour to turn nuts onto bolts, and I'm paying my worker $9.00 to turn nuts onto bolts, your worker is not going to turn them any better than mine.

Actually, the widgets, if made in the U.S.A., will likely be three times the cost of Chinese made widgets, but if you and I are both making them and I have better production practices and engineering with my widgets, who do you think the U.S. Government is going to buy their widgets from? Who do you think the Big 3 are going to buy their widgets from? Who do you think Boeing will get their widgets from?

And to hop on to another of your posts about the guy from GM sitting at home drawing a pension, in a nearby town, 20% of every years budget is going towards pension costs. Who is drawing those pensions? City employees, namely police, fire, and city government workers. Probably 80% or more are Republican. So they like filling at the trough as well. In order to offset this cost, the city residents get a bill every year for $40, to pay for these pensions, all with the standard 3.5% increase (how often I don't know) and if you think any of the Big 3 still offer pensions, you're mistaken. That's a relic from a bygone era. They did away with them, just like my employer has, but I'm one of the lucky ones, I've been there long enough to still get one, but it's paltry compared to what the old timers got.

City employees, namely police, fire, and city government workers. Probably 80% or more are Republican.

Not a chance.

Actually, the widgets, if made in the U.S.A., will likely be three times the cost of Chinese made widgets, but if you and I are both making them and I have better production practices and engineering with my widgets

The point he was making is that if you have two competing companies, it is unlikely that you will have such a large difference in the engineering quality.

What is more likely, is that if because of unions or other factors, you have to pay twice as much money to have someone turn a screw, the company with the cheaper screw turner, is going to end up getting the contract, because the costs are lower.

Chrysler and GM, verses Honda and Toyota.

The quality of the products of the US companies was simply not that much different than the quality of the Japanese car companies.

What was different was the cost of labor from the two Union companies, verses the two non-union companies.

Thus Toyota and Honda did not go bankrupt, and GM and Chrysler did.

I would respectfully disagree with anyone that Americans do not care about quality. But price does in fact matter more than quality. I can handle something that isn't made to last 1,000 years, if it is within my budget.

Perfect example was years ago, when I was trying to fix my furnace. The blower went out. I hunted around for a replacement blower, and the drop in OEM replacement was $600. So I just went almost a year without it.

How did I do that? Well it sucked, let me tell you.

I started looking around again for a blower motor, and found one imported. It was $130. I bought it, and installed it, and it lasted another 5 years, until I was financially in a better position to replace the furnace.

Did I care about quality? Of course. But it doesn't matter if that other motor was a thousand times better, if I can't afford it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If there isn't enough left over after taking into account materials and wages, rent and taxes won't matter

Said no business owner...ever

Go away

Should an employee be paid more or less than the value they add?

 

[Andylusion]

If there isn't enough left over after taking into account materials and wages, rent and taxes won't matter

Said no business owner...ever

Go away

Of course they have. They do that all the time. In fact, that's pretty much the basis of all business.

If I can't make enough profit off the businesses to justify it... then I close the business and move on.

Do you know how much an average McDonald's franchise owner has put into that Franchise?

The minimum amount is about $1 Million dollars, and goes up to $2.2 Million.
Plus you are required to have no less than $500K in cash. Meaning cash you didn't borrow.

So you are suggesting to me, that you are going to spend $500,000 of your own money that you earned elsewhere, and then borrow between a half million to two million in debt, to run a business.... and not consider how much profit you make on that business?

Really? You going to pay your employees $20/hours, and take home... what? A middle class income of $50,000 a year?

Of course not. You'd be lying to say you would even consider that. Go Millions in debt, and lose half a million of your hard earned money, in order to make the same amount of money as a Walmart manager? No one would do that.

You would either not open the business at all, or you would try and sell off the business as quickly as possible and pay back your millions in debt.

You are lying if you deny that.

 

[Stryder50]

Me, because mine are higher quality, and yours are shit. Walmart and Target initially went with you, but after a slew of negative reviews, complaints, and returns by customers, they decided to go with mine. You still sell yours on Amazon, but most get 1 star reviews.

If the American consumer cared about quality, we wouldn't have half the Chinese crap in our houses that we have today. When it comes to widgets, there is only one way to make them. They are not a work of art. It's like paying a guy to turn nuts onto bolts. If you pay your worker $17.00 per hour to turn nuts onto bolts, and I'm paying my worker $9.00 to turn nuts onto bolts, your worker is not going to turn them any better than mine.

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage...either make something else or make them yourself. Oh you can't make enough?

NOW you see the value of their labor. Pay them accordingly

And how many of them are "YOU" paying so accordingly ???

Like I suspected, NONE !!! - So just another talker flapping in the wind but having no substance backing your hollow claims ... ;-)

 

[Thinker101]

Me, because mine are higher quality, and yours are shit. Walmart and Target initially went with you, but after a slew of negative reviews, complaints, and returns by customers, they decided to go with mine. You still sell yours on Amazon, but most get 1 star reviews.

If the American consumer cared about quality, we wouldn't have half the Chinese crap in our houses that we have today. When it comes to widgets, there is only one way to make them. They are not a work of art. It's like paying a guy to turn nuts onto bolts. If you pay your worker $17.00 per hour to turn nuts onto bolts, and I'm paying my worker $9.00 to turn nuts onto bolts, your worker is not going to turn them any better than mine.

If you can't afford to pay your workers a decent wage...either make something else or make them yourself. Oh you can't make enough?

NOW you see the value of their labor. Pay them accordingly

Not to worry, when the new wave of illegals get here we can pay them half as much...dumbass.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And how many of them are "YOU" paying so accordingly ???

Like I suspected, NONE !!! - So just another talker flapping in the wind but having no substance backing your hollow claims ... ;-)

It's funny watching the left so concerned about wages, being able to support a family, having great benefits. They are no different than us in some ways. BTW, welcome to USMB. It's good to have you.

I bet if Lesh ever had the transmission rebuilt on his car, he got three estimates. He chose the cheapest one providing they did the same quality of work as the others. He didn't care if the mechanic doing the job had food on the table, his kids had nice clothing, if he had healthcare insurance. He chose the cheapest one. Same thing if he has landscapers do his lawn, or had a major plumbing project, even replace a hot water tank.

I'm not ripping on Lesh if he did do these things as most Americans do the same. Just pointing out the typical hypocrisy of the left. Because employers don't do anything we are not guilty of ourselves. They look for the least amount of money for services, just like we do when we have somebody replace our driveway or roof on the house. Most everybody wants to get the cheapest labor they can get.