CBO: Biden $15 An Hour Minimum Wage Will Cost 1.4 Million American Jobs

[sealybobo]

Change your argument. You are a low skilled worker. But you work hard. You try but can’t find a better job. Trade school isn’t for you.

Yes, these people are our problem.

And besides, even people who went to school today are being underpaid if you compare wages and inflation today to 1970 we’re doing worse today.

I make way more than my dad and mom did yet they were able to retire at 62. My dad at 59.

Back then poor people had it good. They could save and retire at a reasonable age. You’ll see. People won’t be retiring till they’re 70.

Perhaps, but what do you expect industry to do about it? In a world of global competition, and American consumers obsessed with cheap products, how do you pay these no-skilled workers anything but lower wage?

Today, you have to do something to make your labor valuable. I was never college material, but I learned a skill and made a living with it. You can't expect industry to way overpay for labor and still stay in business. It isn't logical.

Ford was doing it in the late 90s and enjoying record profits. So was gm and Chrysler.

Nice to see you admit they were overpaying for labor. Notice what was cut when the economy went in the dumpster? And what was the big thing that got changed? Fat cat union contracts and pensions.

Yes the American middle class took a huge loss when unions got fucked.

 

[hadit]

I don't care how high you set corporate taxes, they're not going to pay high wages if they can't sell their goods.

Unless they are FORCED to by Socialist Democrats setting a mandated high wage even for unskilled laborers.

And ultimately they go out of business. The usual suspects like to pretend that businesses are bottomless pits of money. They're not.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ford was doing it in the late 90s and enjoying record profits. So was gm and Chrysler.

That's why I and tens of millions of other Americans have been driving Japanese cars for decades now.

 

[Staidhup]

Your value as an employee is a simple calculation. What you are worth is what your employer can pay another person do the same job and same quality of work that you do.

The private sector is a price taker not a price maker if Government uses its social power to "move the goalposts" via statutory authority.

Actually the consumer dictates price by the purchase of the item or that of a cheaper substitute. Pricing of an item or service is dictated by simple supply and demand. The government disrupts markets and restricts the freedom to choose and should not be involved in the market place for that very reason.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes the American middle class took a huge loss when unions got fucked.

The only people that fucked up the unions were the unions. Greed will do that every time.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It is true that we live in a global economy. Those who pine for the glory days of the 1950s and insist they were because of high taxes ignore/forget a very basic truth. In the 1950s, we were the only productive manufacturer on the planet. Everyone wanted our goods because their own countries were rebuilding their manufacturing capabilities after the devastation of the War. We could AFFORD lavish union pay scales and pension plans. We could AFFORD to charge premium prices for things.

Not only that, but American wages were closer to those around the world. Thanks to unions, we kept pricing ourselves further and further away from labor elsewhere. Plus the fact in the 50's, we didn't have technology. There was really no place for manufacturing to go. Transportation of products was expensive and dangerous. They wouldn't have been able to make products elsewhere, ship them back here, and make any more profit than just by paying these wages and staying here.

Today, a CEO can have board meetings overseas using video chat. He can track his investments on his cell phone sitting on a toilet. If he needs to transfer documents, he doesn't have to wait for overseas mail to get it there. It's done instantly at a touch of a button. If he does need to travel, he can check the satellites to see if there is any concerning weather conditions ahead of him.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So what? That means they all paid far less than $15 an hour, which means they were shit jobs. Roll all those into jobs with a livable wage. That's how the world works, you lose some, but overall, the end result is more money for the working class.

Business doesn't open up or stay open to provide good paying jobs. Businesses open up to make a product or service for a profit.

You and I have widget factories. I pay whatever it takes to get people to work for me, and you pay quality wages and benefits. Amazon needs 10 million widgets. I can sell them mine for $6.00 a piece, and you can sell them yours for $10.00 a piece. Who do you think Amazon, Target, or Walmart is going to buy their widgets from, you or I?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

All I know is what made America great. Ford, GM, Chrysler all overpaying their low skill blue collar workers. Don’t know why they did it. Instead of $35 hr they should have paid them $15 hr and doubled productivity right? But that’s not what made America great. What made us great, at least here in Michigan, was that every third house was a big three family. And everyone else fed off those highly paid low skill workers. They were the heads of their households. Women wanted them men wanted to be them. Lol.

I don’t know why they paid so well oh yea I forgot, unions! The very thing republicans destroyed starting with reagan.

Reagan destroyed one union, the traffic control union. The other unions fell apart when they chased the employers out of the state or country. We came to the realization that it's either work for non-union companies, or don't work at all, because unionized companies couldn't stay in business.

 

[dudmuck]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

So what? Biden is planning to create a bunch of new jobs in green energy, education, infrastructure and health care.

Putting money in people's pockets increases the demand for restaurants, home improvement, vacations, entertainment, new clothes, etc. and all those industries will have to go on a hiring spree to meet the demand.

and 900,000 lifted out of poverty.

I have looked over the last 20 years and I haven't found one President that has created one job other than a new position on his staff or cabinet. Over the same time span I have seen American entrepreneurs create thousands and thousands of new jobs.

The other thing you said is that it is going to bring 900,000 out of poverty which is great, however the CBO says that 1,400,000 will lose jobs, so our net will be a negative 500,000. So I'm not seeing that as a positive.

When you have a demand-constrained economy, consumer spending is the bottleneck.

but also taxpayers subsidize low wages

How Your Tax Dollars Subsidize Low Wages | The Takeaway | WNYC Studios

A new study finds that companies like Walmart and McDonalds often pay employees such low wages that many are driven to federal assistance programs to make ends meet.

www.wnycstudios.org

 

[Papageorgio]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

So what? Biden is planning to create a bunch of new jobs in green energy, education, infrastructure and health care.

Putting money in people's pockets increases the demand for restaurants, home improvement, vacations, entertainment, new clothes, etc. and all those industries will have to go on a hiring spree to meet the demand.

and 900,000 lifted out of poverty.

I have looked over the last 20 years and I haven't found one President that has created one job other than a new position on his staff or cabinet. Over the same time span I have seen American entrepreneurs create thousands and thousands of new jobs.

The other thing you said is that it is going to bring 900,000 out of poverty which is great, however the CBO says that 1,400,000 will lose jobs, so our net will be a negative 500,000. So I'm not seeing that as a positive.

When you have a demand-constrained economy, consumer spending is the bottleneck.

but also taxpayers subsidize low wages

How Your Tax Dollars Subsidize Low Wages | The Takeaway | WNYC Studios

A new study finds that companies like Walmart and McDonalds often pay employees such low wages that many are driven to federal assistance programs to make ends meet.

www.wnycstudios.org

According to the CBO we are going to lose 1,400,000 jobs. How is that going to help anyone?

 

[sealybobo]

Ford was doing it in the late 90s and enjoying record profits. So was gm and Chrysler.

That's why I and tens of millions of other Americans have been driving Japanese cars for decades now.

Yes we know you don't buy American. That's on you.

Of course Ray they conned a conservative like you to buy japanese cars. Duh.

Just another way you attacked unions. You brought in foreign car makers and it didn't lower prices hardly at all.

 

[sealybobo]

All I know is what made America great. Ford, GM, Chrysler all overpaying their low skill blue collar workers. Don’t know why they did it. Instead of $35 hr they should have paid them $15 hr and doubled productivity right? But that’s not what made America great. What made us great, at least here in Michigan, was that every third house was a big three family. And everyone else fed off those highly paid low skill workers. They were the heads of their households. Women wanted them men wanted to be them. Lol.

I don’t know why they paid so well oh yea I forgot, unions! The very thing republicans destroyed starting with reagan.

Reagan destroyed one union, the traffic control union. The other unions fell apart when they chased the employers out of the state or country. We came to the realization that it's either work for non-union companies, or don't work at all, because unionized companies couldn't stay in business.

Yes and in that time workers raises haven't kept up with inflation and ceo pay is out of control. That's ok though. I'm one of the higher paid guys at my company and my brother is an overpaid VP.

Ray, instead of crying that they had pensions, you don't, so they shouldn't have them, you should have said you wanted a pension too. Instead you brought the rest of us down to your level. Thanks a lot.

Too bad you aren't young enough to have to worry about mexican truck drivers. I'd love it if they open the doors and let them drive and compete against you. Hey, go get a better trade then.

 

[danielpalos]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Only in the short term. Unemployment compensation could be improved to better pick up the slack and automatically stabilize our economy. In the long run, higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue.

It also creates higher welfare numbers and poorer poor.........especially among the elderly.

What right wingers complain about only happens in the short run equilibrium not the long run equilibrium. Higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue in every long run equilibrium.

And, those on fixed income tend to have cost of living increases indexed to inflation.

Blah, blah, blah...another ignorant, opinionated rant....meanwhile the CBO - professionals whose job is actually figruing things out, is declaring Biden and Democrats are destroying another 1.4 MILLION American Jobs in the middle of a pandemic and Democrat-damaged economy while opening the border to 'invading' illegal criminals who will compete with out-of-work Americans for jobs, willingly hurting this country and its citizens, just to advance its Socialist agenda.

Pardon me if I listen to the CBO, even if Biden / Dems / Snowflakes refuse to, and believe my own eyes instead of the propaganda Democrats, Fake News MSM, and snowflake trolls want me to accept as truth...

Yes, that is all you have. Raising the minimum wage means Labor will be better able to afford our first world economy; the effect from any minimum wage jobs lost could be mitigated though upgrading unemployment compensation and creating more shovel ready jobs since the democrats seem to have a working majority in Congress, even if only for a little while.

Refugees coming from less developed economies could be better handled by investing in those economies and abolishing our useless drug war which has only destabilized those economies not solved our drug problems.

 

[danielpalos]

They might not be spending more money. Maybe they'll be smarter than you and save some and I never said they won't spend more but there is no multiplier.

And since the cost of everything will go up they won't be buying as much as you think they can and everyone who is already making 15 an hour will not be able to buy as much as before.

So the real question is whether or not there will be a net loss or a net gain.

Since many people will lose their jobs and people will be buying less because everything is more expensive I don't see the benefit of the government interfering with the MW. It should be a state matter.

They may save some more, but low wage labor tends to spend most of their income as a percentage of that income on immediate needs.

The minimum wage may double but that doesn't mean inflation will double the cost of goods. That is just right wing drama that hurts on the Poor if not outright hates on the Poor.

There is no question. Higher paid labor creates more in demand and generates more in tax revenue under our progressive income tax regime. The multiplier means more jobs will be needed to replace those that were lost by the higher wage.

 

[danielpalos]

The multiplier effect doesn't apply in the case of simply paying someone more money.

The concept of the multiplier effect is this: I want a new factory. Now, not only will my employees be employed, but so will construction workers who build the factory, the guy who owns the lunch truck that sells to the construction crew every day, the food distribution people who sell food to the lunch truck guy, and so on.

The multiplier effect has nothing to do with the hourly wage of an employee...

Yes, it does. It means higher paid labor will create more in demand and generate more in tax revenue.

And, since you believe the hourly wage has nothing to do with multiplier effect, why is the CBO estimating the job losses they do?

 

[Papageorgio]

Ford was doing it in the late 90s and enjoying record profits. So was gm and Chrysler.

That's why I and tens of millions of other Americans have been driving Japanese cars for decades now.

Yes we know you don't buy American. That's on you.

Of course Ray they conned a conservative like you to buy japanese cars. Duh.

Just another way you attacked unions. You brought in foreign car makers and it didn't lower prices hardly at all.

At least we have you pushing Chinese products for a solution, certainly not a solution for America is it. Too bad you don't try to sell American products, that's on you.

 

[danielpalos]

Higher paid labor creates more in demand

You keep belching up this nonsense yet you've never once tried to support it...

Every single time the minimum wage has gone up, unemployment has gone down. There is an ENORMOUS amount of pent up demand for goods and services for working Americans, but they lack the income to properly provide for their families, much less plan major purchases or savings.

The USA is the ONLY country in the first world where the numbers of people in the middle class is declining, and more people are falling back into poverty than are rising out of the middle class into wealth. A thriving middle class is a necessity for a healthly thriving first world economy.

Republican policies are killing the American middle class, as surely as the farmer killed the goose that laid the golden eggs, and to the same effect.

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/san2017-26.pdf

Dems should follow Bill Clinton’s lead on minimum wage hike

One of the Democrats’ top priorities in the new Congress is a $15 minimum wage — a 107-percent increase over the current standard. Before embracing a federal wage mandate for which there&#821…

thehill.com

Yes, Dems held majority for almost every minimum wage raise

Eighty-one years ago, the American workforce was introduced to its first ever federal minimum wage. President Franklin D

www.politifact.com

Why the middle class is shrinking

Fewer millennials in 2019 are middle class compared to baby boomers when they were in their 20s.

www.marketwatch.com

Seven reasons to worry about the American middle class | Brookings

Eleanor Krause and Isabel Sawhill list seven reasons why the American middle class is in trouble.

www.brookings.edu

when was the last MW increase more than 100%?

It should have been keeping up with inflation for the last decade. It is a simple cost of living adjustment. Right wingers are nothing but drama queens by not asking for a tax break to help out with raise in the minimum wage.

 

[danielpalos]

CBO: Biden’s $15 Minimum Wage Would
Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

Why Do This? Because the Democrats know what's best for you...and because they CAN.


CBO: Biden's $15 Minimum Wage Would Result in a Loss of 1.4 Million Jobs

So what? Biden is planning to create a bunch of new jobs in green energy, education, infrastructure and health care.

Putting money in people's pockets increases the demand for restaurants, home improvement, vacations, entertainment, new clothes, etc. and all those industries will have to go on a hiring spree to meet the demand.

and 900,000 lifted out of poverty.

Oh goody, more "shovel ready jobs"....dumbass.

Now is the best time since the democrats seem to have a workable majority in Congress.

 

[danielpalos]

Why not just raise it incrementally and allow ALL business to adjust? it would be simpler.

Everybody will know it is going to happen, even your consumers. One quick shock and boom, higher paid labor will be creating more in demand and generating more in tax revenue.

 

[sealybobo]

Ford was doing it in the late 90s and enjoying record profits. So was gm and Chrysler.

That's why I and tens of millions of other Americans have been driving Japanese cars for decades now.

Yes we know you don't buy American. That's on you.

Of course Ray they conned a conservative like you to buy japanese cars. Duh.

Just another way you attacked unions. You brought in foreign car makers and it didn't lower prices hardly at all.

At least we have you pushing Chinese products for a solution, certainly not a solution for America is it. Too bad you don't try to sell American products, that's on you.

German or Chinese take your pick. No one makes what I sell in the USA. Oh and I sell aftermarket. My stuff comes from the UK. The granite comes from South Africa.

You guys wanted NAFTA, you got it. I adapted, you didn't. Now you want to tariff and bring jobs back home? Are those jobs going to pay what they paid when they left?

I had to go along to get along. Elections have consequences. That's why coal miners vote for Republicans and people who want to save the planet vote Democratic.