Cardinal Adds to Islam-Violence Debate

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Cardinal Adds to Islam-Violence Debate



By Paul Tait


SYDNEY (Reuters) - The head of Australia's Catholic church said the violent reaction to the Pontiff's comments on Islam in many parts of the Islamic world "justified one of Pope Benedict's main fears".

Cardinal George Pell, the conservative leader of Australia's 5.1 million Roman Catholics, said he was pleased there had been no violence in Australia in reaction to Pope Benedict's use of a mediaeval quotation on Islam and holy war.

But he criticised acts of violence elsewhere.

"The violent reaction in many parts of the Islamic world justified one of Pope Benedict's main fears," Pell, the Archbishop of Sydney, said in a statement on Web sites of the Catholic Church of Australia.

"They showed the link for many Islamists between religion and violence, their refusal to respond to criticism with rational arguments, but only with demonstrations, threats and actual violence," he said.


Some Australian Muslim leaders said the comments by both Pope Benedict and Pell should be condemned.

Ameer Ali, head of a government-appointed Muslim reference group, told Reuters Pell's comments were "especially unhelpful in a charged atmosphere", while academic Samina Yasmeen said leaders should remember that religion often dealt with raw emotions.

"The fact that Cardinal Pell decided to come into the controversy and add more to that, I think it's a dangerous thing," she told a security conference in Canberra.

A spokesman for Australia's Muslim community challenged Pell to debate Sheikh Taj El-Din Hamid Hilaly, head of one of Sydney's biggest mosques.

"Islam has nothing to hide, nothing to be ashamed of and if Cardinal Pell is up to this challenge he is welcome to this public forum," spokesman Keyser Trad told Australian television.

Muslim anger swelled after Pope Benedict's speech in Germany last week in which he referred to criticism of the Prophet Mohammad by 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who said everything the Prophet brought was evil "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".

The Pope said on Sunday this was not his view and apologised for causing offence, although he stopped short of retracting the speech.

DIALOGUE NEEDED

While some Muslims were mollified by his apology, others remain angry.

Al Qaeda militants in Iraq have vowed war on "worshippers of the cross" while Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called the remarks "the latest chain of the crusade against Islam started by America's Bush".

Echoing Pope Benedict's explanation, Pell said he favoured dialogue between religions but described the reaction of some Muslim leaders in Australia as "unfortunately typical and unhelpful".

"Our major priority must be to maintain peace and harmony within the Australian community, but no lasting achievements can be grounded in fantasies and evasions," Pell said.

Pell is seen as a strict adherent to Catholic orthodoxy with some influence at the Vatican and was on the Papal conclave that voted for Pope Benedict to succeed Pope John Paul in 2005.

Pell sought dialogue between the West and Islam and said he would like answers about teachings in the Koran and what he said were its links to violence.

"I think we have to have a good look at what the Koran has written on violence, have a good look at the career of the early Muslims and the military expansion that went on for decades and invite some comment from our Islamic friends," he told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/060919/3/43ij5.html
 

Kagom

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You can't really say Benedict wasn't right with the quote he used though. Proved a wee bit too accurate.
 
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You can't really say Benedict wasn't right with the quote he used though. Proved a wee bit too accurate.
The Pope's comments were right on the money. The *ONLY* reason he back-peddled, was to try and appease the islamo's so they wouldn't get all violent.

I say expose the devils for what they are for ALL the peace loving world to see, then let's go kill 'em all.
 

Kagom

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The Pope's comments were right on the money. The *ONLY* reason he back-peddled, was to try and appease the islamo's so they wouldn't get all violent.

I say expose the devils for what they are for ALL the peace loving world to see, then let's go kill 'em all.
Killing them all would be way to rash. Some should be left to live because they don't support or condone the actions of the violent ones. We see that more with moderate Muslims in the U.S. BUt that's me going off personal experience.
 
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Killing them all would be way to rash. Some should be left to live because they don't support or condone the actions of the violent ones. We see that more with moderate Muslims in the U.S. BUt that's me going off personal experience.
They want to kill *ALL* of us, so no, kill them all, before they kill us.
 

Kagom

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They want to kill *ALL* of us, so no, kill them all, before they kill us.
Pale, not every single Muslim in this entire world wants to kill us. There are some who don't want violence. For the most part, or rather, in most of the Middle East, those Muslims want us dead and our heads sawed off and put on spikes. You can justify eradicating only so many, but when you get into those who may actually side with us, then you're pushing an ethical line.
 
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Pale, not every single Muslim in this entire world wants to kill us.
Then ask yourself kag, "why don't THOSE muslims stand up and tell the others to STOP"?

That would convince me that what you're saying is true. But they don't, and "silence gives consent." In others words, they're silence is a vote of approval to what the violent muslims are doing.
 

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Then ask yourself kag, "why don't THOSE muslims stand up and tell the others to STOP"?

That would convince me that what you're saying is true. But they don't, and "silence gives consent." In others words, they're silence is a vote of approval to what the violent muslims are doing.
I don't know why they're not. Maybe the news won't cover the ones who do, because that won't reel in viewers. I don't know. But lemme ask you this: if I can find at least 1 message board of Muslims who condemn the violent behavior of others, would you maybe change your mind that not all of them are consenting to the violent message?
 

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I don't know why they're not. Maybe the news won't cover the ones who do, because that won't reel in viewers. I don't know. But lemme ask you this: if I can find at least 1 message board of Muslims who condemn the violent behavior of others, would you maybe change your mind that not all of them are consenting to the violent message?
Don't mean to butt in here, Kagom - but my answer would be, "no". There is no cost, and - probably not coincidentally, then - no value to Muslims "tsk tsk"-ing from behind the faceless anonymity of a message board. Public condemnations would entail some bravery, obviously; these head-choppers aren't exactly free-speech advocates. But, remember - every man who signed the Declaration of Independence effectively placed his head in a noose. There ARE worse things than dying. If there exist peace-loving Muslims, they're going to have to stand up.
 

Kagom

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Don't mean to butt in here, Kagom - but my answer would be, "no". There is no cost, and - probably not coincidentally, then - no value to Muslims "tsk tsk"-ing from behind the faceless anonymity of a message board. Public condemnations would entail some bravery, obviously; these head-choppers aren't exactly free-speech advocates. But, remember - every man who signed the Declaration of Independence effectively placed his head in a noose. There ARE worse things than dying. If there exist peace-loving Muslims, they're going to have to stand up.
Well, if I can find enough money to do so, I'll shoot a documentary on Muslims who oppose violence. Would that make any of you happy then?
 

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Well, if I can find enough money to do so, I'll shoot a documentary on Muslims who oppose violence. Would that make any of you happy then?
They shouldn't wait for that. If they're sincere, they need to step up NOW.
 

musicman

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But if we saw Muslims standing up now, would it even be on the news?
Oh, it'd be news, all right. The "peace-loving Muslim" has been conspicuous enough by his absence that he is now a near-myth. To find one brave enough to condemn Islamofascist murder and tyranny would be sufficiently momentous as to render the event unsquelchable - despite the heroic efforts of cowards and Amerca-haters here and abroad.

And, remember - cowards and America-haters no longer enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of information. 10-15 years ago, your point may have been valid; we were effectively living under an information blackout, you see. That's not the case today, thank God.
 

Kagom

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Oh, it'd be news, all right. The "peace-loving Muslim" has been conspicuous enough by his absence that he is now a near-myth. To find one brave enough to condemn Islamofascist murder and tyranny would be sufficiently momentous as to render the event unsquelchable - despite the heroic efforts of cowards and Amerca-haters here and abroad.

And, remember - cowards and America-haters no longer enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of information. 10-15 years ago, your point may have been valid; we were effectively living under an information blackout, you see. That's not the case today, thank God.
I disagree. THe media seems to enjoy painting Muslims as violent and crazy and psychotic all around. It wouldn't be enough to bring in ratings to show a peaceful Muslim condemnviolence.

And again, I disagree because there's things we never hear though we should.
 

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Good job, Kagom. I am satisfied that the peace-loving Muslim exists. That said, he must be more out-front - more pre-emptive - more pro-active - many, many times more. His condemnation of these murderers must be vocal, absolute, constant, and unequivocal. If the Islamic tyrant is his enemy - the defiler of his faith - the traitor to his way of life - he must say so, loudly and often. The hateful spew of the murderer is almost ceaseless - interrupted only his murders. The peaceful Muslim must now take up the fight.
 

manu1959

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The Pope's comments were right on the money. The *ONLY* reason he back-peddled, was to try and appease the islamo's so they wouldn't get all violent.

I say expose the devils for what they are for ALL the peace loving world to see, then let's go kill 'em all.
i disagree.....i say the pope did it on purpose..... to bait them...it worked...then he apologized knowing they would not accept.....the pope has shown them for what they are...dogs to be shot in the street
 

rtwngAvngr

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Pale, not every single Muslim in this entire world wants to kill us. There are some who don't want violence. For the most part, or rather, in most of the Middle East, those Muslims want us dead and our heads sawed off and put on spikes. You can justify eradicating only so many, but when you get into those who may actually side with us, then you're pushing an ethical line.
Actually, it's only the threat to kill each and every muslim, good, bad or ugly, which will force the "moderates" to turn on their "more radical" co-ethnicists.
 

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I disagree. THe media seems to enjoy painting Muslims as violent and crazy and psychotic all around. It wouldn't be enough to bring in ratings to show a peaceful Muslim condemnviolence.

And again, I disagree because there's things we never hear though we should.
Wishful thinking--muslims connect with other muslims not only because of their religion but also becasue of thier race. Time for some people to pay more attention to WJs racial theories. I thought all the bleeding hearts were liberals.
 

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