Capitalism or Communism? Is communism really that horrible?

[Uncensored2008]

You really can't buy your way to the top of anything...

A collectivist with an IQ of 90 cant buy themselves an IQ of 120.. Just like the guy with the IQ of 120 will always be more intelligent than the 120 collectivists with an IQ of 90...

Collectivism doesn't work...

I would call collectivism a borderline coping mechanism for individual idiocy.

Even so, Teddy Kennedy, a man with an IQ of no more than 70, bought a law degree and a senate seat.

 

[Dragon]

Hitler wasn't a socialist, but he played one on TV.

The Nazi party initially did have socialist elements in its platform and there were a fair number of Nazis (most of them Party members before Hitler joined) who took that seriously. To find out what happened to them after Hitler assumed emergency powers in 1933, look up the "Night of the Long Knives."

After that, the Nazi party was socialist in name only.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Ask Cubans.

I love how Castro just purged all his dissenters to the US back in 1979 or 1980...

Of course that's what communists do - purge and cull when there isn't enough resources to sustain a society...

That within itself is one of the bigger flaws of communism...

 

[Ambrose]

After college I was all for communism. Call it indoctrination of the liberal teachers. However, I thought about it deeply and came to the conclusion it can never work. First, equal is a fantasy. Nothing can be equal because there is not an equal amount of resources. It is a fairy tale to believe everyone can have the same of everything because someone will always have something better. Whether it is lake front property, warmer climate, etc…. Everyone can not live on the beach in sunny south Florida or in Hawaii. Then we get to work. Everyone can not have the cushy chair job. Someone has to pick up the trash. Someone has to dive into the sewage tanks and risk hepatitis to clean it. Who is going to do those jobs freely if everything is equal? There is nothing more to gain from doing those jobs. Heck if everyone has the same thing then why work at all? Then the government will have to force people to work and then there goes human rights. The only way communism, socialism, liberalism, etc… can truly work is if we lived in the perfect world with the perfect resources and populated with the perfect people. We have none and that is why those forms of government will always fail in the end. Capitalism works because people in the end are greedy and always want more. No matter what form of government you have you will always have the haves and have nots. The only real question is does the individual decide through his own efforts and accomplishments or does the government get to pick the haves?

Lets not forget we're all not the same...

We all have different talents, we all have different intelligent levels, we all have different skills etc...

The truth is that we're all not the same.

Sure, treating the janitor the same as the doctor is good for the janitor but it's not good for the doctor....

Why even bother going the extra mile as an individual under the socialist model??? it won't get you anything.... And I think that extra effort is what built the US and what keeps the United States on top of the world - because individuals are rewarded for their effort and their extra work...

Yes, I agree, Capitalist government is far better and it is ashamed that it is being demolished. It has made good of human nature and encourages people to go out and get it. Even though if you may make a mistake when you are younger with a will you have a way. You put in the work and you get the benefit with capitalism. But in communism you are forced into it and get nothing more than the other guy next door

 

[Uncensored2008]

Karl Marx was the most psuedo of psuedo intellectuals that has disgraced the surface of the Earth with his presence.

He extols the virtues of socialism, he tells us that we should be more giving, more willing to share, he tells us we need to change our social, political and economic systems because -- Tehy're not fair.

But nowhere does he tell us how to run such a system once we kill everybody we don't like. Which seems to be about the only thing communists, socialists, fascists (whatever), et al are good at.

What gets me is how can the people of today, in an educated society, in an informed society, WILLINGLY wish for a dictatorship?!?!?!

That's what true socialism MUST be for it to work. An absolutist, statist, totalitarian dictatorship.

And OBTW, Hitler was a socialist, not a Fascist. Mussolini was a Fascist. As was Franco. And probably Pinochet.

But Hitler was a socialist. Period. End of debate.

Have you ever actually read Marx?

Economic Manuscripts: Capital: Volume One

Before criticizing, one should have knowledge of WHAT they are criticizing.

 

[Dragon]

There is no such thing as "capitalist government." Capitalism is an economic system, not a political system.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Capitalism or communism? Are those our only choices?: God help us! Either a system of organized greed with a systematically-underperforming economy and widespread poverty, or one that aims for an anarchistic utopia where everyone shares, devoid of natural human motivation, putting lead weights on anything fun between here and there. The ruthlessly horrible or the reality-challenged.

What's behind Door No. 3?

the Constitution of the United States....!

American exceptionalism is why we are No.1 in the world....in many, many ways....

American exceptionalism refers to the theory that the United States is qualitatively different from other countries. In this view, America's exceptionalism stems from its emergence from a revolution, becoming "the first new nation,"[1] and developing a uniquely American ideology, based on liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism and laissez-faire. This observation can be traced to Alexis de Tocqueville, the first writer to describe the United States as "exceptional" in 1831 and 1840.[2] Historian Gordon Wood has argued, "Our beliefs in liberty, equality, constitutionalism, and the well-being of ordinary people came out of the Revolutionary era. So too did our idea that we Americans are a special people with a special destiny to lead the world toward liberty and democracy."[3]

The specific term "American exceptionalism" was first used in 1929 by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin chastising members of the Lovestone-led faction of the American Communist Party for the heretical, according to Stalin, belief that America was independent of the Marxist laws of history "thanks to its natural resources, industrial capacity, and absence of rigid class distinctions."

American exceptionalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Toro]

Is communism that bad?

Yes. It sucks.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

In communism ideal/original communism everyone is equal. Though it almost never happens that a nation goes completely on the guidelines of a known social policy. Everyone is equal and therefore have the same things to live on and lean on their whole lives. Everyone once again must be equal in society and as a result you lose the right to earn.

Besides the complete destruction of balancing supply/demand ratios only found efficient in capitalism, the above is the second biggest mistake regarding communism. Not everyone is equal at all. That is a facade established by those holdign the keys to all the doors to make the people believe they are all equal. A class structure based on function is established which immediately erases the ability for everyone to be equal. Those who are chosen by the power broker of such social build to be say, enforcers of the rules, the rulers themselves, etc...get more of the rationing of completed production because they are the authoritarian party members and affiliates. There is absolutely no such thing as equality when it comes to societal make-up. It's a farce, a lie, a dream and it will never come true. Ever.

 

[Dragon]

The U.S. Constitution defines a political system, not an economic system. It has nothing to do with capitalism or communism one way or the other. Funny how people can't seem to understand this distinction.

 

[Edgetho]

Ask Cubans.

I love how Castro just purged all his dissenters to the US back in 1979 or 1980...

Of course that's what communists do - purge and cull when there isn't enough resources to sustain a society...

That within itself is one of the bigger flaws of communism...

Those weren't "dissenters".

Castro emptied his prisons and asylums and sent them to us, thanks to the 2nd worst POS-TUS evah..... Jimmy The Peanut

 

[Dragon]

Actually, the only way that anyone could advocate either of those two economic systems is to adhere to theory with dogged determination in the teeth of contradictory facts. They are both supportable only by ivory-tower sorts with no grasp of reality at all.

 

[Mr.Nick]

You really can't buy your way to the top of anything...

A collectivist with an IQ of 90 cant buy themselves an IQ of 120.. Just like the guy with the IQ of 120 will always be more intelligent than the 120 collectivists with an IQ of 90...

Collectivism doesn't work...

I would call collectivism a borderline coping mechanism for individual idiocy.

Even so, Teddy Kennedy, a man with an IQ of no more than 70, bought a law degree and a senate seat.

I think power and/or influence is no more than an illusion..

For example - our government could ban guns.... Yeah, like I'm not going to pack heat because the government says it's illegal???

People do what they do...

The government raises taxes? shit, I'm sure there are plenty of creative accountants.

Hell, I'm sure the government realized that banning drugs and fining people would lead to epic government revenue... Just like Obama realized that giving guns to the cartels was necessary to continue that Ponzi scheme.....

Do people stop using drugs? nope...

 

[Mr.Nick]

Ask Cubans.

I love how Castro just purged all his dissenters to the US back in 1979 or 1980...

Of course that's what communists do - purge and cull when there isn't enough resources to sustain a society...

That within itself is one of the bigger flaws of communism...

Those weren't "dissenters".

Castro emptied his prisons and asylums and sent them to us, thanks to the 2nd worst POS-TUS evah..... Jimmy The Peanut

When you dissent under a communist regime you end up in prison...

Most weren't even criminals - they were just dissenters.

Most Cubans in the US hate Castro(s) with a passion....

 

[TakeAStepBack]

There is no such thing as "capitalist government." Capitalism is an economic system, not a political system.

Correct! However, communism is the direct of government to centrally control ALL of the means and ends of production, most notably through force. So communism is both a political system and an economic one. It also does not work. Because, once again, governments (a small group of officials with complete authority) can not create efficient markets. Their versions always fall extremely short. Deadly short.

A good read to consider: Time Runs Back written by Henry Hazlitts in a believe the 50s or 60s. It's a fun satire for the economically "coming of age" that paints an interesting picture of what life would have been like had the communists won the wars and destroyed all of capitalism (including any and all reference to it in the history books, music, etc..) in the world, and how a new dictator begins to re-find capitalism and free markets. Wortht eh read and it's fun.

 

[Edgetho]

Karl Marx was the most psuedo of psuedo intellectuals that has disgraced the surface of the Earth with his presence.

He extols the virtues of socialism, he tells us that we should be more giving, more willing to share, he tells us we need to change our social, political and economic systems because -- Tehy're not fair.

But nowhere does he tell us how to run such a system once we kill everybody we don't like. Which seems to be about the only thing communists, socialists, fascists (whatever), et al are good at.

What gets me is how can the people of today, in an educated society, in an informed society, WILLINGLY wish for a dictatorship?!?!?!

That's what true socialism MUST be for it to work. An absolutist, statist, totalitarian dictatorship.

And OBTW, Hitler was a socialist, not a Fascist. Mussolini was a Fascist. As was Franco. And probably Pinochet.

But Hitler was a socialist. Period. End of debate.

Have you ever actually read Marx?

Economic Manuscripts: Capital: Volume One

Before criticizing, one should have knowledge of WHAT they are criticizing.

Ohhh yes. I've read Marx. And Bauer,and all the rest of them.

You wanna talk about boring? You wanna talk about circular stupidity at its finest?

Here's one for you, if you haven't already read it. It was practically the Bible for all good Marxists back in the day.

It's still EXTREMELY applicable today. I recommend it even though it was by a Marxist for Marxists.

The Two Souls of Socialism

(1966)

 

[peach174]

Here is what Cubans say:
IT SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvSpmV2gUWk&feature=related]I Can't, I Live In Cuba! - YouTube[/ame]

They have 1950 and early 60's cars. Crumbing buildings, no computers or Internet and no freedom of speech.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The U.S. Constitution defines a political system, not an economic system. It has nothing to do with capitalism or communism one way or the other. Funny how people can't seem to understand this distinction.

wrongo.....you can't have communism under our Constitution....unless you bastardize the Constitution.....(like the lefties are trying to do)

 

[Dragon]

Correct! However, communism is the direct of government to centrally control ALL of the means and ends of production, most notably through force.

Communism, properly so called, is anarchistic. It has no government; it's the end-stage of Marxist theory in which the state has withered away. You're thinking of Marxist-Leninist socialism, which (supposedly) would lead to communism.

Of course, a communist economy in a civilized context is totally impossible, at least as much so as a perfect free market, which is why I say both these economic philosophies are reality-challenged, ivory-tower stuff without practical validity.

 

[Lovebears65]

Ask Cubans.

Ask the North Koreans