Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Engels noted that in a socialist system the primary function of public institutions will shift from being about the creation of laws and the control of people into a technical role as an administrator of technical production processes

Yeah, those gulags were awesome!!!

 

[georgephillip]

YEs, Atlantic City casinos took a huge hit when every other state in the union legalized gambling.

Junk bonds and other people's money: "The eighth wonder of the world."

Atlantic City: 'Trump turned this place into a ghost town'

"When Donald Trump opened the towering Trump Taj Mahal Casino in Atlantic City in March 1990, he declared it 'the eighth wonder of the world' and joined in the celebrations at a launch ceremony filled with portly actors dressed as genies brandishing tacky golden lamps.

"Even though it was purchased with almost $700m worth of junk bonds – which meant the Taj had to come up with $94m a year just to pay off its debts, and $1m a day to be profitable – Trump insisted the casino would make Atlantic City great again, returning the area to its prohibition-era glory days."

See what happens when you run out of other people's money?

 

[bripat9643]

How did that make African countries adopt their socialist policies?

 

[bripat9643]

Your ignorance of communism is impressive.
Maybe you should open your eyes?

"Marx and Engels maintained that a communist society would have no need for the state as it exists in contemporary capitalist society.

So where has this fantasy ever existed?

Reality: All government is based on force. Show us an example of a single government that didn't employ force.

"The capitalist state mainly exists to enforce hierarchical economic relations, to enforce the exclusive control of property, and to regulate capitalistic economic activities—all of which would be non-applicable to a communist system.[10][17]

Communist society - Wikipedia

"Engels noted that in a socialist system the primary function of public institutions will shift from being about the creation of laws and the control of people into a technical role as an administrator of technical production processes, with a decrease in the scope of traditional politics as scientific administration overtakes the role of political decision-making.[20]

"Communist society is characterized by democratic processes, not merely in the sense of electoral democracy, but in the broader sense of open and collaborative social and workplace environments"

Again, you're telling us that communism is a triangle with four sides. Your fantasy doesn't exist. It never has, and it never will.

 

[bripat9643]

Junk bonds and other people's money: "The eighth wonder of the world."

Atlantic City: 'Trump turned this place into a ghost town'

"When Donald Trump opened the towering Trump Taj Mahal Casino in Atlantic City in March 1990, he declared it 'the eighth wonder of the world' and joined in the celebrations at a launch ceremony filled with portly actors dressed as genies brandishing tacky golden lamps.

"Even though it was purchased with almost $700m worth of junk bonds – which meant the Taj had to come up with $94m a year just to pay off its debts, and $1m a day to be profitable – Trump insisted the casino would make Atlantic City great again, returning the area to its prohibition-era glory days."

See what happens when you run out of other people's money?

You totally ignored what I posted.

Ho0w typical for you.

 

[Flopper]

I suppose there is a sense in which you may be right. Here in the USA a person has real choices. Although she or he may not get any wins, a voter can even vote for a registered communist party candidate.

I’m not an expert on Chinese ballots. But I understand that the “choices” are all of ne Party. A person wishing to cast a vote for a Libertarian for instance is not permitted any choice of a candidate from any such Party.

You could spend years trying understand elections in China and you would still be scratching your head. National elections and most regional elections are indirect where local elections are mostly direct. The National People's Congress, the NPC is composed of about 2800 delegates who are elected by 35 electoral units such as the Congresses of municipalities, Regions, National Liberation Army, Special Administration Regions, etc, etc. Elections to these congresses are both direct and indirect elections. Generally local congresses are directly elected by the people. Getting on the ballot is not uniform. Basically the candidates are selected by the various parties and major local pollical groups. Most candidate will be Communists because the Communist Party is the dominate party. The NPC selects the President of China and lower level congresses select some municipal and regional leaders. Others are by direct vote of the people. Most campaigning in direct elections is done online.

 

[BackAgain]

You could spend years trying understand elections in China and you would still be scratching your head. National elections and most regional elections are indirect where local elections are mostly direct. The National People's Congress, the NPC is composed of about 2800 delegates who are elected by 35 electoral units such as the Congresses of municipalities, regions, the National Liberation Army, Special Administration Regions, etc, etc. Elections to these congresses are both direct and indirect elections. Generally local congresses are directly elected by the people. Getting on the ballot is not uniform. Basically the candidates are selected by the various parties and major pollical groups. Most candidate will be Communists because the Communist Party is the dominate party. One of the major responsibilities of these congresses are selections of leader. The NPC selects the President of China and lower level congresses select some municipal and regional leaders. Others are by direct vote of the people. Most campaigning in direct elections campaign online.

I’ll take your word on it. And I don’t mean that in a dismissive way. I am simply not familiar enough with the Peoples Republic of China to discuss it meaningfully. But I do doubt that the citizens get a true choice in whom they may vote for. And no matter, even then, because in the end, the Communist Party will “win.”

 

[Flopper]

Wrong its a representative republic which means we vote for men and women to represent us....a pure democracy goes like this....5 people in a room...3 men 2 women...the men vote to rape the women and the women vote no...in a democracy the women get raped....see the difference?....

A republic by definition is government by representatives of the people. The difference in our republic and the Republic of China is that our republic is based democratic principals of political equality, individual rights, rule of law, etc..

 

[Flopper]

I’ll take your word on it. And I don’t mean that in a dismissive way. I am simply not familiar enough with the Peoples Republic of China to discuss it meaningfully. But I do doubt that the citizens get a true choice in whom they may vote for. And no matter, even then, because in the end, the Communist Party will “win.”

I agree. I think what people don't understand about China is the tremendous change that has taken place in personal freedoms. However, pollical freedoms are still tightly controlled by the goverment. You can criticize local government and oppose local leaders but not the national government.

 

[Rambunctious]

A republic by definition is government by representatives of the people. The difference in our republic and the Republic of China is that our republic is based democratic principals of political equality, individual rights, rule of law, etc..

I don't disagree....but being based on democratic principles does not mean we are a pure democratic nation...there is no such thing....it doesn't exist....

 

[bripat9643]

You could spend years trying understand elections in China and you would still be scratching your head. National elections and most regional elections are indirect where local elections are mostly direct. The National People's Congress, the NPC is composed of about 2800 delegates who are elected by 35 electoral units such as the Congresses of municipalities, Regions, National Liberation Army, Special Administration Regions, etc, etc. Elections to these congresses are both direct and indirect elections. Generally local congresses are directly elected by the people. Getting on the ballot is not uniform. Basically the candidates are selected by the various parties and major local pollical groups. Most candidate will be Communists because the Communist Party is the dominate party. The NPC selects the President of China and lower level congresses select some municipal and regional leaders. Others are by direct vote of the people. Most campaigning in direct elections is done online.

Chinese elections are meaningless. the Communist party choose all the candidates.

Case closed.

 

[Flopper]

I don't disagree....but being based on democratic principles does not mean we are a pure democratic nation...there is no such thing....it doesn't exist....

Democracy, Capitalisms Socialism, and many other such ideologies can not be implemented in the real world. However, there are principals of these ideologies can be implement on a limited basis for example regulated capitalisms, democratic republics, socio-democratic societies, etc

 

[bripat9643]

Democracy, Capitalisms Socialism, and many other such ideologies can not be implemented in the real world. However, there are principals of these ideologies can be implement on a limited basis for example regulated capitalisms, democratic republics, socio-democratic societies, etc

Bullshit. The closer we get to a free market, the faster the economy grows and the more human welfare improves.

 

[georgephillip]

Socialism is about power not capital. Capitalism is about capital not power. Thus, Government is socialism.

Perhaps the solution here is...?

Socialism - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Democratic socialism[change | change source]​

"Democratic socialism is the belief that both the economy and society should be run democratically (as opposed to authoritarianism)—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.

"To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary people can participate in the many decisions that affect their lives."

 

[bripat9643]

Perhaps the solution here is...?

Socialism - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Democratic socialism[change | change source]​

"Democratic socialism is the belief that both the economy and society should be run democratically (as opposed to authoritarianism)—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.

"To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary people can participate in the many decisions that affect their lives."

You know that's propaganda, don't you?

Everything you post is propaganda - lies, in other words.

Also note that your definition say it's a "belief." I'm shocked they would admit that.

Also, authoritarianism isn't the only alternative to democracy of socialism. In fact, socialism is authoritarianism.

 

[danielpalos]

Perhaps the solution here is...?

Socialism - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Democratic socialism[change | change source]​

"Democratic socialism is the belief that both the economy and society should be run democratically (as opposed to authoritarianism)—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.

"To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary people can participate in the many decisions that affect their lives."

From my perspective, it may require better use of AI because this seems to be part of the dilemma:

If liberty and equality are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost.--Aristotle

 

[dblack]

Democratic socialism is the belief that both the economy and society should be run democratically (as opposed to authoritarianism)—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.

This description of their goals is, at least, honest. They want both society and the economy to be run democratically. That's everything. What they want is totalitarian government (as opposed to libertarian), one where every decision you make, everything you do, is subject to the will of the majority. Moreover, they don't want government to merely govern society; they want it to RUN society.

The sad thing is, I suspect this quote seems relatively innocuous to most liberals, when in fact it should scare the shit out them.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you know what a shareholder is? Shareholders, are owners of a company..without an owner, there may very well be no company at all

Do you know the difference between primary and secondary securities markets?
Secondary Securities Market

Secondary Securities Market

Do you know what percentage of the total value of Wall Street's equity is new money going into firms as opposed to speculators' bank accounts?

"Look closely at the stock market and it betrays some fundamental assumptions about the creation of wealth in today’s markets.

"Only 1% of the total value of equity on Wall Street is actual investment in the sense of new money going into firms.

The Divine Right of Capital by Marjorie Kelly

"The remaining 99% is speculation – people buying and selling existing stock in the aftermarket of equity.

"In the preface of the book, Kelly makes the good analogy of buying a car.

"When you buy a new car, the money goes to Ford.

"But when you buy a used car, it all goes to the previous car owner – Ford doesn’t get a cent.

"Stocks are the same – and the vast majority of money sloshing around is just trading hands and not actually being invested in firms."

 

[georgephillip]

I am not talking about "private roads" - I am talking about state roads, that have tolls

What does the state do with the money it collects?
How does that differ from how private for-profit corporations spend their revenues?

 

[georgephillip]

Right-wingers seem the most like the (right-wing) Chinese.

I think the word is authoritarian.
Right wingers never advance beyond the childhood phase of needing a "strong man" to tell them what to do. That's why they killed and died for centuries defending the divine right of kings and why so many of them today protect the divine right of capital with equal fervor.

In a word, they are slaves.