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Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

Toddsterpatriot

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"The World Health Organization estimates that 3.575 million people die from lack of clean water, and that 1.5 million people die from vaccinable diseases every year. Mercy Corps estimates that nine million people die from hunger every year. By summing these deaths, it can be concluded that capitalism kills approximately 14 million people per year"

Tallying Capitalism’s Death Toll

I saw that the first time, now where did capitalism kill 5 million from lack of drinking water?
 

Toddsterpatriot

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There's little doubt US aid to the Soviets was crucial to defeating the Nazis, but there's no doubt which country paid the biggest price in that war; for example, if Hitler's Operation Barbarrosa had targeted the US
origin-12.jpg

https://bigthink.com/the-present/barbarossa-usa/

Don't you hate it when your hero, Stalin, teams up with Hitler?
I'll bet Stalin felt like a real asshole when Hitler invaded, eh comrade?
 

dblack

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my original sources are in long drawn out podcastss that get mocked and not listened to,,
links are in the stories I posted,,
not my fault youre just lazy,,

do you have something that shows chinese troops being allowed in canada are not in the trade agreement they signed??
I don't think you're following. I can't - won't - take the claims of those websites seriously. Won't even waste my time wondering whether it's true or not. Credibility matters.
 

progressive hunter

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I don't think you're following. I can't - won't - take the claims of those websites seriously. Won't even waste my time wondering whether it's true or not. Credibility matters.
then why are you wasting my time when you choose willful ignorance??
 

dblack

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then why are you wasting my time when you choose willful ignorance??
I'm not. I'm pointing out that your posts are doing the opposite of what you think. They only discredit the ideas you are supposedly promoting.
 

progressive hunter

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I'm not. I'm pointing out that your posts are doing the opposite of what you think. They only discredit the ideas you are supposedly promoting.
so youre saying canada doesnt have a trade agreement that allows chines troops in canada??
 

dblack

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so youre saying canada doesnt have a trade agreement that allows chines troops in canada??
*sigh* - I'm trying to tell you that you're doing more harm than good. If you really care about conservative values, limited government, individual liberty etc - you'll just shut the fuck up. The retard circus is not helpful.
 

progressive hunter

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*sigh* - I'm trying to tell you that you're doing more harm than good. If you really care about conservative values, limited government, individual liberty etc - you'll just shut the fuck up. The retard circus is not helpful.
WOW,, your sure spun your way out of that one,,
 

dblack

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bripat9643

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"The World Health Organization estimates that 3.575 million people die from lack of clean water, and that 1.5 million people die from vaccinable diseases every year. Mercy Corps estimates that nine million people die from hunger every year. By summing these deaths, it can be concluded that capitalism kills approximately 14 million people per year"

Tallying Capitalism’s Death Toll
How did you anyone conclude that capitalism was responsible? These people died mostly in Africa, where they don't have capitalism. They mostly have the kind of governments that you endorse.
 
OP
georgephillip

georgephillip

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Owners can't also make wages so low that nobody will work for them, or they'll have no employees helping make the products or service.

But, it's certainly true, and they want to maximize their profits. I am not sure how that's some sort of new concept.
There is nothing new about capitalism's worship of profits, but it is that obsession that requires owners to cut costs by outsourcing production to lower labor costs. This hollows out the domestic economy opening the door for the parasites in the FIRE sector
America’s Path To A FIRE Economy:
fire_economy.png

  • "Step 1 – The power of labor is broken down and wages fall. This is referred to as 'wage repression' or 'wage deflation' and is accomplished by outsourcing and offshoring production.[1]
  • Step 2 – Corporate profits—especially in the financial sector—increase, roughly in proportion to the degree to which wages fall in some sectors of the economy"
Internal contradictions of capital accumulation - Wikipedia
 

Natural Citizen

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Today the USA is neither capitalist or Democratic.....

Correct.

There's a problem with definitions and understanding of what kinds of policies we actually have in America today and the OP is a prime example of that malfunction.

Consequently, there can be no meaningful dialogue with regard to the failures so long as the definitions and understanding of what kinds of policies we actually have are ignored.

Placing that aside, Keynesianism, which is precisely the kind of policy we have, is socialist. And eventually leads to fascism. And so long as people are discusing irrelevancies such as the comparisons provided in the op, the Keynesians are laughing all the way to the central bank. And the Marxists love them for it as they're just waiting in the background to 'save ' us from what they'are ignorantly (or conveniently in some cases) calling 'capitalism'

Keynesianism will always fail. It's designed to fail. We're witnessing it now.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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There is nothing new about capitalism's worship of profits, but it is that obsession that requires owners to cut costs by outsourcing production to lower labor costs. This hollows out the domestic economy opening the door for the parasites in the FIRE sector
America’s Path To A FIRE Economy:
fire_economy.png

  • "Step 1 – The power of labor is broken down and wages fall. This is referred to as 'wage repression' or 'wage deflation' and is accomplished by outsourcing and offshoring production.[1]
  • Step 2 – Corporate profits—especially in the financial sector—increase, roughly in proportion to the degree to which wages fall in some sectors of the economy"
Internal contradictions of capital accumulation - Wikipedia

Corporate profits—especially in the financial sector—increase, roughly in proportion to the degree to which wages fall in some sectors of the economy"

What about wages in the financial sector?
 
OP
georgephillip

georgephillip

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Socialism is the Govt owning the means of production.
That was the only acceptable definition of socialism in the US during the Cold War; it is simply another lie the rich tell:

Socialism - Wikipedia

"Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and democratic control, such as workers' self-management of enterprises.[8][9]

"It includes the political theories and movements associated with such systems.[10]

"Social ownership can be public, collective, cooperative, or of equity.[11]

"While no single definition encapsulates the many types of socialism,[12] social ownership is the one common element."
 

struth

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That was the only acceptable definition of socialism in the US during the Cold War; it is simply another lie the rich tell:

Socialism - Wikipedia

"Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and democratic control, such as workers' self-management of enterprises.[8][9]

"It includes the political theories and movements associated with such systems.[10]

"Social ownership can be public, collective, cooperative, or of equity.[11]

"While no single definition encapsulates the many types of socialism,[12] social ownership is the one common element."
as i stated capitalism allows for, and we have in this country collective ownership…most businesses in fact are owned by numerous people…all the ones on the stock exchange are for example
 

struth

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There is nothing new about capitalism's worship of profits, but it is that obsession that requires owners to cut costs by outsourcing production to lower labor costs. This hollows out the domestic economy opening the door for the parasites in the FIRE sector
America’s Path To A FIRE Economy:
fire_economy.png

  • "Step 1 – The power of labor is broken down and wages fall. This is referred to as 'wage repression' or 'wage deflation' and is accomplished by outsourcing and offshoring production.[1]
  • Step 2 – Corporate profits—especially in the financial sector—increase, roughly in proportion to the degree to which wages fall in some sectors of the economy"
Internal contradictions of capital accumulation - Wikipedi
that’s not a new concept

worship it? sure. A business doesn’t survive without profits

even collectives “worship” profits, they go under without it

Govts worship profits as well…without it they go under…look at all the Socialist countries that have failed for lack of it
 

dblack

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Corporate profits—especially in the financial sector—increase, roughly in proportion to the degree to which wages fall in some sectors of the economy"

What about wages in the financial sector?
Damned employees won't work unless you pay them! Greedy bastards obsessed with profit. Always trying to get raises and bonuses. Why can't they be like george and work for minimum wage?
 
OP
georgephillip

georgephillip

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Capitalism isn't democratic (in the one vote, one person sense). But that doesn't mean the two aren't compatible. It just means that capitalism denies government control of the economy.
Depending on which version of government and capitalism you are referring to, shifting decision making power from corporate managers and corporate shareholders (not to mention vulture capitalists on Wall Street) to workers, customers, suppliers, neighbors and the broader public would provide society a democratic voice in economic policy decisions.

Economic democracy - Wikipedia
 
OP
georgephillip

georgephillip

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It's like asking if the First Amendment is compatible with democracy. The First Amendment isn't, itself, democratic. It's part of the Constitution and not subject to change by majority rule. But that doesn't meant it isn't compatible with democracy generally. It just means government can't be used to control speech or religion.
It is hard to imagine any form of government other than a democracy being compatible with free speech; however, capitalism works well in any dictatorship.
 

progressive hunter

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It is hard to imagine any form of government other than a democracy being compatible with free speech; however, capitalism works well in any dictatorship.
you cant be that stupid,, oh wait you can,,

democracies hate free speech and why we are a constitutional republic,,
 

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