Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[bripat9643]

Stagnating wages?
That sounds systemic

Internal contradictions of capital accumulation - Wikipedia

"The internal contradictions of capital accumulation is an essential concept of crisis theory, which is associated with Marxist economic theory. While the same phenomenon is described in neoclassical economic theory, in that literature it is referred to as systemic risk."

Can you explain the labor theory of value and how it isn't complete horseshit?

 

[bripat9643]

Marxist economic theory.

LOL!

He posted an oxymoron.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

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​

"America’s billionaires have grown $2.1 trillion richer during the pandemic, their collective fortune skyrocketing by 70 percent — from just short of $3 trillion at the start of the COVID crisis on March 18, 2020, to over $5 trillion on October 15 of this year, according to Forbes data analyzed by Americans for Tax Fairness (ATF) and the Institute for Policy Studies Program on Inequality (IPS).

"Not only did the wealth of U.S. billionaires grow, but so did their numbers: in March of last year, there were 614 Americans with 10-figure bank accounts.

"Today there are 745.

"The $5 trillion in wealth now held by 745 billionaires is two-thirds more than the $3 trillion in wealth held by the bottom 50 percent of U.S. households estimated by the Federal Reserve Board.

"The great good fortune of these billionaires over the past 19 months is even starker when contrasted with the devastating impact of coronavirus on working people.

"Almost 89 million Americans have lost jobs, over 44.9 million have been sickened by the virus, and over 724,000 have died from it.

"To put this extraordinary wealth growth in perspective, the $2.1 trillion gain over 19 months by U.S. billionaires is equal to:

• 60 percent of the $3.5 trillion 10-year cost of President Biden’s Build Back Better plan.
• The entire $2.1 trillion in new revenues over 10 years approved by the House Ways and Means Committee to help pay for President Biden’s Build Back Better (BBB) investment plan."

U.S. Billionaires are Now $2.1 Trillion Richer Than Before the Pandemic - Inequality.org

"America’s billionaires have grown $2.1 trillion richer during the pandemic, their collective fortune skyrocketing by 70 percent — from just short of $3 trillion at the start of the COVID crisis on March 18, 2020, to over $5 trillion on October 15 of this year, according to Forbes data analyzed by Americans for Tax Fairness (ATF) and the Institute for Policy Studies Program on Inequality (IPS).

Yup, stock holders make money when their stock goes up. So what?

 

[georgephillip]

A load of bull disproven by that 1% of Americans pay almost half of all income taxes. That is proof of what democracy is, mob rule. And Democrats are still saying it isn't enough

If the richest one percent pay almost half of all income taxes, what does that tell you about changes in the US income distribution over the past forty years?
A Guide to Statistics on Historical Trends in Income Inequality | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Since the pandemic began, 745 US billionaires have gotten 2.1 trillion dollars richer while 89 million Americans lost their jobs and nearly 750,000 lost their lives. You should probably worry less about dividing federal power and worry more about restricting corporate power.

 

[georgephillip]

So you think the "rich" pay all the taxes because they can "get away with anything."

Who told you the rich pay all the taxes?

Trump’s strategy for selling his tax reform plan is to outright lie about it

 

[georgephillip]

Pretty strong stuff the OP puts out. Could be a time where this country becomes like England in the 1800's. People sleeping in the streets (they already are), young kids prostituting them selves because they and their family are dead broke. We already have three individuals who own more wealth than the bottom fifty percent of Americans. So when is enough enough? When one individual owns 90% of the wealth?

Bernie Sanders: 3 billionaires' wealth=Bottom half of U.S.

Do three Americans really have more wealth than half the country? It’s a claim made by the runner-up for the 2016 Democr

www.politifact.com

In 1929 unfettered capitalism crashed the global economy.
FDR's New Deal and WWII built the biggest middle class in world history.
That began to end in the 1970s, and Reagan finished it off.
The rich never have enough, and it seems likely their wealth doesn't exist without war and debt.
When the end finally comes I'm pretty sure immigrants will take the blame?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If the richest one percent pay almost half of all income taxes, what does that tell you about changes in the US income distribution over the past forty years?
A Guide to Statistics on Historical Trends in Income Inequality | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Since the pandemic began, 745 US billionaires have gotten 2.1 trillion dollars richer while 89 million Americans lost their jobs and nearly 750,000 lost their lives. You should probably worry less about dividing federal power and worry more about restricting corporate power.

Thanks! Even the people at the 20th percentile are doing better.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In 1929 unfettered capitalism crashed the global economy.

How'd your commie heroes do in the 1930s?

 

[georgephillip]

Just as I thought: there is nothing criminal about making money legally.

Nothing criminal about the Sackler family?



"The lack of criminal charges is controversial, in part, because the Justice Department itself alleges in new filings that members of the Sackler family approved a scheme to boost opioid prescribing that the company now admits was illegal.

"Acting on the family's authority Purdue Pharma 'intensified their marketing of OxyContin to extreme, high-volume prescribers who were already writing 25 times as many OxyContin scripts as their peers,' according to the DOJ.

"Federal prosecutors name David Sackler, Jonathan Sackler, Kathe Sackler, Mortimer Sackler and Richard Sackler as playing a direct role in that effort.

"Justice Department officials also allege the Sacklers engaged in 'fraudulent' financial activity, as they worked to shelter billions of dollars in opioid profits from future lawsuits."

 

[georgephillip]

Did you have any actual facts or logic to post?

As if you're capable of recognizing either.

 

[georgephillip]

Your own chart shows there is no "surplus" if the economy is in equilibrium, which is 99% of the time.

Can't spot any surplus?

Economic surplus – 2 quantities​

– Producer Surplus: this is the difference between how much a supplier sold something for and how cheaply he or she would have gone (minimum selling price). For example, if I sell 1,000 widgets for $10,000 ($10 each), but I would have gone as low as $6 each, my producer surplus is 10 minus 6 times 1,000 = $4,000.

– Consumer Surplus: this is similar to the one above, but from a consumer’s point of view. It is the difference between how much a consumer purchased an item for, and how high he would have gone – the top price he/she would have accepted."

 

[georgephillip]

Here we go: the old saw about how capitalism caused the failures of socialism.

Your ignorance is truly Trumpian.

American Imperialism in Venezuela

"One of the largest contributing factors to Venezuela’s economic crisis as it currently stands is the sanctions set by the Trump administration to oust Nicolas Maduro from power.

"According to a press release from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, the sanctions set on the Venezuelan regime in 2017 meant 'all assets of these individuals subject to U.S. jurisdiction are frozen, and U.S. persons are prohibited from dealing with them.'

"Under these sanctions CITGO, a state-owned company who averaged around $1 billion USD every year since 2015, cannot refer any revenues and shares back to Venezuela as CITGO is in Texas.

"Additionally, New York state law governs all of Venezuela’s foreign currency bonds.

"The resulted loss in 2017 was staggering, the contrast in income using data from the 12 months before sanctions totals at about $6 billion.

"This example represents just one of many sanctions.

"America’s attempts to control Maduro and remove him from power have only cost Venezuelans any chance at comfortable living as Maduro gives no indication that he will yield.

"Maduro blames the United States for the perceived 'economic war;' waged on Venezuelans through Trump’s numerous sanctions.

"Maduro continues to blame his economic problems on the United States without acknowledging his reliance on socialism within a failed petro-state.

"Meanwhile, the U.S. is meddling in the country’s affairs in a largely counterproductive manner.

"These sanctions are only worsening the economic and political situation in Venezuela as Maduro stays in power."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Your ignorance is truly Trumpian.

American Imperialism in Venezuela

"One of the largest contributing factors to Venezuela’s economic crisis as it currently stands is the sanctions set by the Trump administration to oust Nicolas Maduro from power.

"According to a press release from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, the sanctions set on the Venezuelan regime in 2017 meant 'all assets of these individuals subject to U.S. jurisdiction are frozen, and U.S. persons are prohibited from dealing with them.'

"Under these sanctions CITGO, a state-owned company who averaged around $1 billion USD every year since 2015, cannot refer any revenues and shares back to Venezuela as CITGO is in Texas.

"Additionally, New York state law governs all of Venezuela’s foreign currency bonds.

"The resulted loss in 2017 was staggering, the contrast in income using data from the 12 months before sanctions totals at about $6 billion.

"This example represents just one of many sanctions.

"America’s attempts to control Maduro and remove him from power have only cost Venezuelans any chance at comfortable living as Maduro gives no indication that he will yield.

"Maduro blames the United States for the perceived 'economic war;' waged on Venezuelans through Trump’s numerous sanctions.

"Maduro continues to blame his economic problems on the United States without acknowledging his reliance on socialism within a failed petro-state.

"Meanwhile, the U.S. is meddling in the country’s affairs in a largely counterproductive manner.

"These sanctions are only worsening the economic and political situation in Venezuela as Maduro stays in power."

Why did Venezuela suck before the sanctions?

 

[georgephillip]

That's because you're an imbecile. How did that social control work for Venezuela? Cuba? North Korea?

How did neoliberalism work for Venezuela, Cuba, or North Korea?

"It may seem strange that a doctrine promising choice and freedom should have been promoted with the slogan 'there is no alternative'.

"But, as Hayek remarked on a visit to Pinochet’s Chile – one of the first nations in which the programme was comprehensively applied – 'my personal preference leans toward a liberal dictatorship rather than toward a democratic government devoid of liberalism'.

"The freedom that neoliberalism offers, which sounds so beguiling when expressed in general terms, turns out to mean freedom for the pike, not for the minnows."

Neoliberalism – the ideology at the root of all our problems

 

[bripat9643]

How did neoliberalism work for Venezuela, Cuba, or North Korea?

"It may seem strange that a doctrine promising choice and freedom should have been promoted with the slogan 'there is no alternative'.

"But, as Hayek remarked on a visit to Pinochet’s Chile – one of the first nations in which the programme was comprehensively applied – 'my personal preference leans toward a liberal dictatorship rather than toward a democratic government devoid of liberalism'.

"The freedom that neoliberalism offers, which sounds so beguiling when expressed in general terms, turns out to mean freedom for the pike, not for the minnows."

Neoliberalism – the ideology at the root of all our problems

You mean communism, jackass.

 

[bripat9643]

Your ignorance is truly Trumpian.

American Imperialism in Venezuela

"One of the largest contributing factors to Venezuela’s economic crisis as it currently stands is the sanctions set by the Trump administration to oust Nicolas Maduro from power.

"According to a press release from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, the sanctions set on the Venezuelan regime in 2017 meant 'all assets of these individuals subject to U.S. jurisdiction are frozen, and U.S. persons are prohibited from dealing with them.'

"Under these sanctions CITGO, a state-owned company who averaged around $1 billion USD every year since 2015, cannot refer any revenues and shares back to Venezuela as CITGO is in Texas.

"Additionally, New York state law governs all of Venezuela’s foreign currency bonds.

"The resulted loss in 2017 was staggering, the contrast in income using data from the 12 months before sanctions totals at about $6 billion.

"This example represents just one of many sanctions.

"America’s attempts to control Maduro and remove him from power have only cost Venezuelans any chance at comfortable living as Maduro gives no indication that he will yield.

"Maduro blames the United States for the perceived 'economic war;' waged on Venezuelans through Trump’s numerous sanctions.

"Maduro continues to blame his economic problems on the United States without acknowledging his reliance on socialism within a failed petro-state.

"Meanwhile, the U.S. is meddling in the country’s affairs in a largely counterproductive manner.

"These sanctions are only worsening the economic and political situation in Venezuela as Maduro stays in power."

Commies like you never stop trying to blame capitalism for your disasters. Only the morons are fooled.

 

[georgephillip]

Exactly the opposite. When you say "democratic control" you mean government control. You mean centralized, coercive control. I absolutely do NOT want government to have more power over the economy.

When I say "democratic control" I mean public regulation designed to enhance long term economic goals that benefit the 99% of Americans instead of the short term speculation favored by brokers, bankers, investors, and capital markets. How much more economic inequality do you think this country needs?

 

[dblack]

When I say "democratic control" I mean public regulation designed to enhance long term economic goals that benefit the 99% of Americans instead of the short term speculation favored by brokers, bankers, investors, and capital markets.

Exactly. State control of the economy is a bad idea. It gives government far too much power.

How much more economic inequality do you think this country needs?

As much as it takes. Income inequality is a good thing. As long as it's the result of voluntary trade, it's the truest representation of the "will of the people". Far moreso than simple majority rule.

 

[Rigby5]

Exactly. State control of the economy is a bad idea. It gives government far too much power.


As much as it takes. Income inequality is a good thing. As long as it's the result of voluntary trade, it's the truest representation of the "will of the people". Far moreso than simple majority rule.

If and when the people are government, then government can't have too much power.

Since when has any trade been voluntary?
First there was feudalism, then imperialism, colonialism, monopolies, illegal trusts, slavery, etc.

 

[dblack]

If and when the people are government, then government can't have too much power.

"The people" are always government. That's why it sucks to high heaven.

Since when has any trade been voluntary?

When have you last been forced to trade?