Capitalism Guarantees Rising Inequality

[gnarlylove]

I thought corrective was a benign and odd locution given our context. It sounds like your point or worry is the result of real world applications of power structures. They can help but they also can harm. This is not a matter of better rules or no rules (though that is a part), it's a fundamental matter of bettering ourselves so we participate in society with general empathy instead of our sole focus on the ego. A balance is much healthier. Ego unchecked always leads to excess, which is where it becomes unhealthy and corrosive for society.

 

[P@triot]

Theoretically possible but your position is 100% speculation and does not compare well with other data dealing with changes in the US labor market.

Whether you like it or not Marx predicted our current problems and understood the nature of the labor market, even if his solution was naive and ignorant. Marx's biggest fear was that Democracy would be taken over by money. So you have more in common with him than you might think.

Marx predicted that capitalism would blow up 100 years ago, which is clearly wrong. He also didn't understand diddly-squat about the U.S. labor market. According to him, we should all be earning less than we did when he wrote Das Kapital. The reality is that we are all earning fabulously more. Economists have demonstrated the idiocy of the labor theory of value time and time again. In short, you have to be a brain dead loser to believe Karl Marx said anything useful.

Your position is 100% horse manure. It's all based on Marxist propaganda which we know to be dead wrong.

Capitalism almost did implode on itself 100 years ago. Nothing like a massive labor shortage to undo a long term trend in wages and nothing like globalization and peace to undo those trends.

Who said he was perfectly right about everything?

Capitalism favors the capitalist, which is both capitalism's greatest strength and the biggest threat to capitalism in the long term.

I think it is wonderfully ironic that you complain about the corrupting influence of money on Democracy and then complain about Marx in the next breath.

The future of modern economics is finding a way to balance growth in production and growth in wages. China has demonstrated rather clearly just how fast productivity can increase but they have relied heavily on the US to provide them with a growing consumer market that is independent of their wage market.

First of all, if your argument is "almost" - you have no argument.

Second, nothing could be further from the truth.

Third, why is it that every liberal at this board to points to China in every argument? If oppressive communism is so wonderful, go live there stupid.

 

[georgephillip]

Hey george, how does the Iraq War have anything to do with the subprime mortgage crisis? Sigh. Androw destroyed your premise, now you're throwing random points at him/her. Your arguments and rebuttals are textbook examples of ignoratio elenchi.

TK, where the hell you been?
This thread began as an indictment of capitalism's contribution to rising economic inequality.

From my OP

"We live in a world rife with inequality of wealth, income, power and influence.

"It is the underlying cause of deep-seated social tensions, community divisions and a range of poisons that cause terrible suffering to millions of people.

"The disparity between the wealthy minority and the billions living in suffocating poverty is greater than it has ever been.

"Worldwide it is estimated that the wealthiest 10 per cent owns 85 per cent of global household wealth.

"According to Wikipedia, 'As of May 2005, the three richest people in the world have assets that exceed the combined gross domestic product of the 47 countries with the last GDP', and 'The richest 2 per cent of the world population own more than 51 per cent of the global assets'”.

Spotlight on Worldwide Inequality

I didn't bring the subprime crisis into the discussion (and I'm not sure Androw did either); however, it was a valid example of how rich capitalists use government to redistribute the national income upward, IMHO

I did bring the Iraq War into the discussion because the same rich capitalists use war and the public debt and private profits it produces to bring about the same ends as control accounting fraud on Wall Street, namely an ever widening economic gap between the richest 1% and the majority of Americans.

Hardly an irrelevant conclusion, IMHO.

I didn't bring the subprime crisis into the discussion (and I'm not sure Androw did either); however, it was a valid example of how rich capitalists use government to redistribute the national income upward, IMHO

Yes, banks planned the subprime crisis (in which they lost hundreds of billions), in order to redistribute income upward.

Pity the poor rich, *****

"All told, average inflation-adjusted income per family climbed 6% between 2009 and 2012, the first years of the economic recovery.

"During that period, the top 1% saw their incomes climb 31.4% — or, 95% of the total gain — while the bottom 99% saw growth of 0.4%.

–"Last year, the richest 10% received more than half of all income — 50.5%, or the largest share since such record-keeping began in 1917. Here is how the top earners break down: Top 1%: incomes above $394,000 in 2012; Top 5%: incomes between $161,000 and $394,000; Top 10%: incomes between $114,000 and $161,000."

Some 95% of 2009-2012 Income Gains Went to Wealthiest 1% - Real Time Economics - WSJ

 

[P@triot]

Pity the poor rich, *****

"All told, average inflation-adjusted income per family climbed 6% between 2009 and 2012, the first years of the economic recovery.

"During that period, the top 1% saw their incomes climb 31.4% — or, 95% of the total gain — while the bottom 99% saw growth of 0.4%.

–"Last year, the richest 10% received more than half of all income — 50.5%, or the largest share since such record-keeping began in 1917. Here is how the top earners break down: Top 1%: incomes above $394,000 in 2012; Top 5%: incomes between $161,000 and $394,000; Top 10%: incomes between $114,000 and $161,000."

Some 95% of 2009-2012 Income Gains Went to Wealthiest 1% - Real Time Economics - WSJ

Good! This is exactly what you want. Why in the world do you want to incentivize failure and punish success?!?

The whole point it to strive for success and thus the wealth it provides. You want a system designed to make people strive for mediocrity and/or laziness.

 

[Truthmatters]

human beings having a decent life is what this country is about.

this country is NOT about owning the world through commerse.


its about people NOT money

 

[P@triot]

human beings having a decent life is what this country is about.

this country is NOT about owning the world through commerse.


its about people NOT money

I agree with you 100%. But this raises the question - why do you and the rest on the left act so greedy then? Why do you demand what other people have earned? Why don't you focus on life and people rather than ranting like lunatics that wealthy people owe you something?

 

[Truthmatters]

here is the problem with your lie.


this country decided long long ago that helping is not hurting.

Your lies about that just don't fly

 

[Truthmatters]

tell me what you know about the Cumberland road?

 

[Truthmatters]

What do you know about the louisiana Purchase?

 

[TemplarKormac]

here is the problem with your lie.


this country decided long long ago that helping is not hurting.

Your lies about that just don't fly

And it has been seen long long ago, that your arguments have zero substance. No, it's not when helping doesn't hurt, its when government makes it hurt to help.

 

[georgephillip]

It's true, the bigger government becomes, the greater the chance for corruption.

Shrink government now!

The Tea Party is glad you agree.

The TP LOVES off-shoring and business visas.
That's JUST what we need right now to boost employment.

Actually, it's the Dumbocrats who love off-shoring. That's why they keep punishing business with high taxes, costly crushing regulations, and greedy extortion unions - to force business overseas.

It's not rocket science - whoever welcomes businesses gets the businesses. Whoever demonizes and punishes them, loses them. Sadly, Dumbocrats are just too ****'n stupid to figure out even something this basic....

Whoever welcomes child labor, unrestricted working hours, and privatizing profit at the expense of our common environment deserves to lose every round at the polls.

"In 2010, corporate tax revenue constituted about 9% of all federal revenues or 1.3% of GDP."

How does today's corporate contribution to the US Treasury compare to fifty years ago, when the richest 1% of taxpayers earned 8% of US income compared to nearly 25% they "earn" today?

Corporate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dannyboys]

No one has benefitted more from capitalism more than poor people. Their quality of life is a million times better than it used to be.

Do you have any proof of that statement?

"In a world of plenty why are hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of people vulnerable at all? The vulnerable and exploited exist because of an inherently unjust social-economic system, which has caused extreme global inequality and built a divided and fractured world society."

Spotlight on Worldwide Inequality

That's right pal. And in a few decades when China controls the entire worlds economy you better hope that none of your relatives are not capable of putting in 14 hour days to buy enough food to keep them alive until they go to work hand making brooms.
'Social Darwinism'. Two simple words to describe the future of man kind and his past.
Ever wonder why the words: "Utopian Dream" are always included in any sentence with the words 'Socialism/Communism'? B/c it's never been anything more then a "dream".
Time to wake up pal. Every one else on the planet is having to.
The one and only reason millions of people can waddle off their shady porch to pick up their welfare cheque and food stamps is b/c some 'Maker's' money bought the 'free stuff' Obama's 'base' has become dependent on.

 

[dannyboys]

What the country really needs now is for Obama to unveil those "millions of good paying GREEN jobs" he promised.
Any one who voted for this BSer ought to hide their face in shame.[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRpez4BtcQ4]In 2008, Obama Promised Five Million Green Jobs - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

TK, where the hell you been?
This thread began as an indictment of capitalism's contribution to rising economic inequality.

From my OP

"We live in a world rife with inequality of wealth, income, power and influence.

"It is the underlying cause of deep-seated social tensions, community divisions and a range of poisons that cause terrible suffering to millions of people.

"The disparity between the wealthy minority and the billions living in suffocating poverty is greater than it has ever been.

"Worldwide it is estimated that the wealthiest 10 per cent owns 85 per cent of global household wealth.

"According to Wikipedia, 'As of May 2005, the three richest people in the world have assets that exceed the combined gross domestic product of the 47 countries with the last GDP', and 'The richest 2 per cent of the world population own more than 51 per cent of the global assets'”.

Spotlight on Worldwide Inequality

I didn't bring the subprime crisis into the discussion (and I'm not sure Androw did either); however, it was a valid example of how rich capitalists use government to redistribute the national income upward, IMHO

I did bring the Iraq War into the discussion because the same rich capitalists use war and the public debt and private profits it produces to bring about the same ends as control accounting fraud on Wall Street, namely an ever widening economic gap between the richest 1% and the majority of Americans.

Hardly an irrelevant conclusion, IMHO.

I didn't bring the subprime crisis into the discussion (and I'm not sure Androw did either); however, it was a valid example of how rich capitalists use government to redistribute the national income upward, IMHO

Yes, banks planned the subprime crisis (in which they lost hundreds of billions), in order to redistribute income upward.

Pity the poor rich, *****

"All told, average inflation-adjusted income per family climbed 6% between 2009 and 2012, the first years of the economic recovery.

"During that period, the top 1% saw their incomes climb 31.4% — or, 95% of the total gain — while the bottom 99% saw growth of 0.4%.

–"Last year, the richest 10% received more than half of all income — 50.5%, or the largest share since such record-keeping began in 1917. Here is how the top earners break down: Top 1%: incomes above $394,000 in 2012; Top 5%: incomes between $161,000 and $394,000; Top 10%: incomes between $114,000 and $161,000."

Some 95% of 2009-2012 Income Gains Went to Wealthiest 1% - Real Time Economics - WSJ

I don't pity the poor rich, I ridicule your idiotic "arguments".

 

[georgephillip]

The TP LOVES off-shoring and business visas.
That's JUST what we need right now to boost employment.

Stupid liberals love to make it harder to hire people and then whine that not enough are hired.
Now they want to reward criminal invaders with citizenship.
Because that will help low-skill Americans earn more.

Of course Dumbocrats want to reward criminals - because there is nothing Dumbocrats love more than power. Why do you think - despite vehemently opposing ending slavery and the Civil Rights movement (and despite their deep and disgusting history of racism), they feign being the party of minorities? Why do you think they openly invite every and any deviant behavior into their party? And, why do you think they keep them all ignorant, poor, and dependent on government?

Answer: power

"These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don't move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, we'll lose the filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It'll be Reconstruction all over again." --Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson (D., Texas), 1957

The Democrat Plantation: Top Racist Quotes by Notable Left Wingers

"The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88–352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) is a landmark piece of civil rights legislation in the United States[4] that outlawed major forms of discrimination against racial, ethnic, national and religious minorities, and women.[5]

"It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public (known as 'public accommodations')..."

"Powers given to enforce the act were initially weak, but were supplemented during later years.

"Congress asserted its authority to legislate under several different parts of the United States Constitution, principally its power to regulate interstate commerce under Article One (section 8), its duty to guarantee all citizens equal protection of the laws under the Fourteenth Amendment and its duty to protect voting rights under the Fifteenth Amendment.

"The Act was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson on July 2, 1964 at the White House."

Virtually all Democratic opposition came from southern conservative Dixicrats like the Sothern Bloc

"When the bill came before the full Senate for debate on March 30, 1964, the 'Southern Bloc' of 18 southern Democratic Senators and one Republican Senator led by Richard Russell (D-GA) launched a filibuster to prevent its passage.[13]

"Said Russell: 'We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states.'

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Conservatives of all political stripes have always been frightened by equality for all.

 

[georgephillip]

So what? I didn't say Wall St hypocritically supported Socialism either.

Wall St is a just a bunch of people trying to earn money, just like you, just like me, just like Hollywood, just like everyone.

Hollywood, and the rest of the leftard hypocrites, are the people who claim to support socialism and equality. You hypocrites go first.

Start with this.... how much do you make? If you make just $30,000 a year, you are in the top 1% of wage earners in the world.

You go first. Go for equality. Give out your money, and cut your income to $10,000 a year. That's what the world average income is. You start first, and show us what a real Socialist is. Show us what true income equality is.

But you won't, and neither will your Hollywood hypocrites. You have no credibility to accuse Wall St of anything.

Your ignorance is matched only by your arrogance.
You want to make this personal?
I've never made twenty thousand dollars in a single year of my 45 years in the private work force.
I currently earn $897.40 a month or $10,768.80 per year.
Your turn, Stud.
Your credibility is on the line.

That explains a bunch. If you are in fact earning that little, should I assume you are using all the government programs for people at your level?

And what exactly is it that you do? What's your occupation?

Your turn.
Remember?
Are you living with mommy and daddy or any other family members?
What government programs are you using?

 

[RKMBrown]

Your ignorance is matched only by your arrogance.
You want to make this personal?
I've never made twenty thousand dollars in a single year of my 45 years in the private work force.
I currently earn $897.40 a month or $10,768.80 per year.
Your turn, Stud.
Your credibility is on the line.

That explains a bunch. If you are in fact earning that little, should I assume you are using all the government programs for people at your level?

And what exactly is it that you do? What's your occupation?

Your turn.
Remember?
Are you living with mommy and daddy or any other family members?
What government programs are you using?

Welcome to the libtarded nation of Georges that can't even earn a full time minimum wage salary

 

[KNB]

That explains a bunch. If you are in fact earning that little, should I assume you are using all the government programs for people at your level?

And what exactly is it that you do? What's your occupation?

Your turn.
Remember?
Are you living with mommy and daddy or any other family members?
What government programs are you using?

Welcome to the libtarded nation of Georges that can't even earn a full time minimum wage salary

Do you ever consider that billionaire corporations can spend their collected DOZENS OF TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS in cash and other assets to provide higher wages and better benefits for all humanity?

 

[thereisnospoon]

TK, where the hell you been?
This thread began as an indictment of capitalism's contribution to rising economic inequality.

From my OP

"We live in a world rife with inequality of wealth, income, power and influence.

"It is the underlying cause of deep-seated social tensions, community divisions and a range of poisons that cause terrible suffering to millions of people.

"The disparity between the wealthy minority and the billions living in suffocating poverty is greater than it has ever been.

"Worldwide it is estimated that the wealthiest 10 per cent owns 85 per cent of global household wealth.

"According to Wikipedia, 'As of May 2005, the three richest people in the world have assets that exceed the combined gross domestic product of the 47 countries with the last GDP', and 'The richest 2 per cent of the world population own more than 51 per cent of the global assets'”.

Spotlight on Worldwide Inequality

I didn't bring the subprime crisis into the discussion (and I'm not sure Androw did either); however, it was a valid example of how rich capitalists use government to redistribute the national income upward, IMHO

I did bring the Iraq War into the discussion because the same rich capitalists use war and the public debt and private profits it produces to bring about the same ends as control accounting fraud on Wall Street, namely an ever widening economic gap between the richest 1% and the majority of Americans.

Hardly an irrelevant conclusion, IMHO.

I didn't bring the subprime crisis into the discussion (and I'm not sure Androw did either); however, it was a valid example of how rich capitalists use government to redistribute the national income upward, IMHO

Yes, banks planned the subprime crisis (in which they lost hundreds of billions), in order to redistribute income upward.

Pity the poor rich, *****

"All told, average inflation-adjusted income per family climbed 6% between 2009 and 2012, the first years of the economic recovery.

"During that period, the top 1% saw their incomes climb 31.4% — or, 95% of the total gain — while the bottom 99% saw growth of 0.4%.

–"Last year, the richest 10% received more than half of all income — 50.5%, or the largest share since such record-keeping began in 1917. Here is how the top earners break down: Top 1%: incomes above $394,000 in 2012; Top 5%: incomes between $161,000 and $394,000; Top 10%: incomes between $114,000 and $161,000."

Some 95% of 2009-2012 Income Gains Went to Wealthiest 1% - Real Time Economics - WSJ

Those stats are useless when not quantified.
Income is not 'received'. It is EARNED

 

[KNB]

Capital gains are not EARNED. It's money made from having money.