Can't Be 'For the Troops' and Against the War

[Annie]

Doesn't wash:

End of long letter, read it all here:

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/09/dear_america.html

"Sleep well on this third anniversary of 9/11, America. Rough men are standing ready to do violence on your behalf. Many of your sons and daughters volunteered to stand watch for you. Not just rough men- the infantry, the Marine grunts, the Special Operations Forces- but lots of eighteen and nineteen year old kids, teenagers, who are far away from home, serving as drivers, supply clerks, analysts, and mechanics. They all have stories, families, and dreams. They miss you, love you, and are putting their lives on the line for you. Do not make their time here, their sacrifice, a waste. Support them, and their mission."

As they say in the military, Lt. Brown writes above his grade.

 

[onedomino]

Doesn't wash:

End of long letter, read it all here:

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/09/dear_america.html

Thank you for the link Kathianne. From Lt. Brown's longer letter linked above:

"Unlike our enemies, we fight with honor."

 

[nakedemperor]

One can protest the legislation that sent that marine to war, and those politicians supporting and passing that legislation that sent that marine to war, and still hope that that marine and all his brethren stay alive and do what is asked of them honorably and effectively. If I had to respond to that marine, it would be something along the lines of,

'Thanks to you and all the other rough men for your sacrifices and your hard work. I am truly sorry if it makes you and your companions tired or downtrodden to hear that I do not approve of the war you are fighting. I am also truly sorry you were asked to do what you are doing, as I don't think it was the right decision to have been made. However, since that decision was made and your involvement cannot be helped, I pray for your safe return and for a job well done by your brave corp. I would never do anything that took bullets from your gun nor caused your grenade to misfire.

Again, forgive us our civilian trespasses, they were not meant to do you harm or to impede your mission. They were meant to protest the decisions of those high above you. I could not in good conscience go along with a war that I believe in my heart of hearts is wrong and unjust; that does not mean that until the war is finished or those above you are convinced to bring you home that I will not continue to hope for victory and to hope for your safety.'

This is merely a hypothetical-- don't jump on me for not believing in this war, I believe in this war. I just disagree with the statement that you can't be opposed to a war but support the warrior.

 

[MJDuncan1982]

I agree and think it is absurd to think one cannot support the troops unless one supports what they are doing. I don't want any of them to die and I definitely don't want them doing something that I don't think they should be doing. Thanks to the marine but it is completely plausibe to support troops and not the conflict.

Simple analogy: I support gun-rights and the protection of the second amendment but I certainly don't agree with everything guns are used for. Our military is the "gun" of the United States. One can support it without supporting its use.

 

[Annie]

Hey guys, did you read the link? Getting defensive.

 

[acludem]

Having read the full text of the letter, I still respectfully disagree with the author. It is possible to support the troops, to appreciate the sacrifice, but to argue that the sacrifice shouldn't have been necessary. You can support the players on a football team, but disagree with the play call made by the coach. Coach Dubya made the wrong call. He went for it on fourth down too early in the game. He should have punted and allowed us to play defense. Instead he fumbled and now we are forced to play on a short field.

It is time for new leadership that can give this writer and the rest of our military the tools and leadership necessary to win the peace and come home safe. We need John Kerry. George Bush has had his chance and he has failed miserably.

acludem

 

[Flying Duck]

As all analogies do, your football analogy sucks.

Most of those serving in Iraq beleive in what they are doing. You do not, therefore, you do not support them. What you are doing is not supporting the troops, it's called caring about people. Pat yourself on the back for caring.

By the way, those who actually support the troops and their mission care about soldiers as people too, even our stupid ole president.

 

[Avatar4321]

As all analogies do, your football analogy sucks.

Most of those serving in Iraq beleive in what they are doing. You do not, therefore, you do not support them. What you are doing is not supporting the troops, it's called caring about people. Pat yourself on the back for caring.

By the way, those who actually support the troops and their mission care about soldiers as people too, even our stupid ole president.

Not only that, but they are dishonoring their memory. They are trying to convince the american people what our soldiers died for nothing. But they havent. We have just seen our soldiers bring liberty to two nations. And in the process get rid of two oppressive regimes that supported terror against the United States.

but then i think alot of Dems do support the troops. Even the extremists. problem is the extremists support the troops being disbanded and dying a slow painful death.

 

[KarlMarx]

I would think that supporting the troops would mean encouraging them, too. After all, if I were a soldier out there, I'd like an "atta boy" from back home to keep me going.

How would this sound?

"Soldier, I want you to know that I support you (although I do think that the war was totally unnecessary, illegal and a total waste of American lives) !! Just remember that the next time you are putting yourself in harm's way that we at home support you (but that that we don't agree with what you're doing, think it's a colossal waste of energy, lives, money, resources that could have been better spent here at home) !!! I want you to know that I respect you and the troops (although your Commander In Chief is a complete moron, an idiot, and he lied to you and all of us, he did it for oil and because Saddam Hussein tried to kill his Dad) !!!! Why I even have a yellow ribbon bumpersticker on the back on my SUV that says 'Support Our Troops' (right next to the bumper sticker that says 'Bush Lied People Died') !!!

Just to show my support, how about some free tickets to 'Fahrenheit 9/11'?"

I'd like to remind those who claim that they "support" our troops of the old axiom --- "Actions speak more loudly than words"


Donate to the USO

 

[Bullypulpit]

Doesn't wash:

End of long letter, read it all here:

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/09/dear_america.html

One can indeed support the troops and be opposed to the war they are engaged in. Simply because that war is unjust and unjustifiable is no fault of theirs, and to deny them support is unthinkable. The die has been cast, and we must play it as it now falls.

But deny them the support of a clearly laid out plan for the occupation of Iraq...To base post-invasion plans on unrealistic and overly optimistic scenarios about the gratitude of the Iraqi citizenry...To fail to adequately fund infrastructure repair and rebuilding...To provide windfall profits to US corporation friendly to the Administration...The failure to provide jobs helping to rebuild the country to her citizens...These actions are criminal in ther failure to support our troops, and they can all be laid foursquare upon the doorstep of Dubbyuh's flawed and failed Administration.

 

[jimnyc]

One can indeed support the troops and be opposed to the war they are engaged in. Simply because that war is unjust and unjustifiable is no fault of theirs, and to deny them support is unthinkable. The die has been cast, and we must play it as it now falls.

The war is both just and justifiable. Nice try, but repeating your sewage for the 3,000th time doesn't make it any less laughable.

 

[jimnyc]

These actions are criminal in ther failure to support our troops, and they can all be laid foursquare upon the doorstep of Dubbyuh's flawed and failed Administration.

What charges have been filed thus far? Please link me to the appropriate entity filing these charges.

 

[NATO AIR]

i respectfully disagree.

i have many friends who opposed the war in iraq, indeed more of them opposed it than supported it. i've argued about it with them often. i never hear from them "i think you're serving a brutal military." i never hear from them "you're fighting for the wrong thing." i never hear from them, "how could you do what you're doing?" i nearly always hear, "what's next? how are you helping the war in iraq? how are you defending us from china or north korea or terrorists?" they try to move on our disagreement and focus on the concerns and dangers we share.

a college friend was killed in iraq last year. many of us attended his funeral. his mother said it best "i disagreed with the president. the point is, i'm allowed to, he is not. soliders take orders from the president, not give them. we give the president orders at the ballot box. never did any of us question my son's choice, service or valor. we questioned the president's choice to send my son and others to war. but once the war was on, all of us sent him letters, care packages, prayers and other manners of support. we tried to show him, that despite our problems with the war, we had no problems with the men fighting it."

i saw the dedication she and others put in supporting maurice. they never questioned what he was doing, they supported his efforts and even tried to offer practical advice on how to deal with problems he was having helping iraqis and protecting them. they cried with him when people in his platoon died. they always let him know that with each letter he sent, their belief in the need to help the iraqi people grew. i think many americans opposed to the war now feel this way. "well we're here, we have to finish the job." i don't much appreciate those who advocate us cutting and running. i don't have a problem with those who believe new leadership is needed to fight the war and win the peace. i don't agree, but i can at least respect those advocating change rather than advocating defeat.

i would LIKE to think many others opposed to the war did the same thing for their loved ones or friends over there. i don't know that though. i hope they did though.

 

[Avatar4321]

Quite frankly i dont understand how any family who has lost a soldier in the war can possibly disagree with it. Do they really want to dishonor their relative like that? They knew what they were getting into when they volunteered. To say one disagrees with the entire premise of them volunteering is a slap in the face to any serving soldier. Telling them they are giving their lives up for nothing when its so clear that the world is a better place because of them. No greater love hath a man than he who will give his life for his brethren. Yet rather than support the cause they fought valiently for it sickens me how many family members are using the deaths of relatives for their own political purposes which dishonor what their relative died for. Maybe they are just stricken with grief but its really bad taste.

 

[NATO AIR]

i'm not sure if you've been to an african-american funeral, but they're a little different (i'm not being racist, i've been to way too many funerals in my life and i just know the difference) than other funerals i've been to... a bit less somber and perhaps more of a celebration at times.

this guy's mother was defusing some of the rhetoric people at the funeral were hurling at pres. bush (he got our boy killed, etc etc)

she gave an honest, heartfelt explanation for her feelings and what her son was doing ("he was serving his country, without question, and we supported him in what he was doing, we just don't agree with his leadership... not his honorable actions")

and she makes a good point some anti-war folks need to learn fast, "soldiers follow orders, they don't give them, soldiers implement policy, they don't make it"

 

[onedomino]

Regardless of what we think about the transient issues justifying any particular war, Americans soldiers and sailors fight for something higher: they fight for freedom and the dignity of their fellow human beings. Thus, all of us can say we support the cause for which they fight. We should resolve “that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion.”

http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/getty.html

 

[NATO AIR]

Regardless of what we think about the transient issues justifying any particular war, Americans soldiers and sailors fight for something higher: they fight for freedom and the dignity of their fellow human beings. Thus, all of us can say we support the cause for which they fight. We should resolve “that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion.”

http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/getty.html

and that is the definitive statement on this subject

 

[nakedemperor]

Quite frankly i dont understand how any family who has lost a soldier in the war can possibly disagree with it. Do they really want to dishonor their relative like that? They knew what they were getting into when they volunteered. To say one disagrees with the entire premise of them volunteering is a slap in the face to any serving soldier. Telling them they are giving their lives up for nothing when its so clear that the world is a better place because of them. No greater love hath a man than he who will give his life for his brethren. Yet rather than support the cause they fought valiently for it sickens me how many family members are using the deaths of relatives for their own political purposes which dishonor what their relative died for. Maybe they are just stricken with grief but its really bad taste.

This seems like backward logic to me. Instead of drawing your own conclusions about the war's justifications, you advocate supporting to alleviate the cognitive dissonance stemming from potentially being against the war and having a son die in the war. Conversely, many families have used their grief and anger as a jumping off point for advocating against the war-- indeed, I would posit the complete opposite of your argument: if their TRUE convictions are that the war is unjust, then NOT speaking out against it would mean that their children died in vain.

 

[Annie]

Hey I disagree with everything you just said, but you said it in such a way that I could've written it, when I'm in a really po'd mood.

 

[dilloduck]

" I support our troops but I don't support what they are ordered to do?"

GARBAGE

Our troops take thier orders and carry them out with pride--not shame. The wounded are going back into the fight because they believe in what they are doing and believe in their Commander in Chief. Don't dare try to portray our nations finest as poor victims of a misguided commander !!! They don't need you fuckin' pity. If you want to support them you tell them how proud you are of them for carrying out orders with pride and bravery. If you don't support the war as it is being fought, you DO NOTHING to support our troops.
Quit trying to console yourselves with empty words.!!!!!