can we get rid of dhs please? adds and enforces 6 year old on terrorist no-fly list

[ConHog]

This is one of those lose-lose situations for DHS. I'm reminded of the movie Terminator when the Arnold Schwartzenegger character systematically kills all the Sarah Connors he finds in the telephone directory until he finds the real one he's looking for. Same thing here: There is probably a good reason for that particular name to remain on the no-fly list even though there's a six year old with the same name. But the news media is pretty good at turning this around and make it look like a matter of bureaucratic incompetency.

It would be more accurate to say that there's a six year old whose name is the same as a person on the no-fly list. But reporting that a six year old has been placed on the list makes for bigger headlines.

So much for journalistic integrity.

That makes sense, except for the fat that the 6 year old is the one getting hassled by the TSA, not whoever has that name that is really on the list. If the TSA can not recognize the fact that a 6 yo is not a terrorist that is bureaucratic incompetence. Considering that some of these children with the same name are frequent fliers you would think that they would get their act together. Instead, they have people, like you, defending them for their stupidity.

Stupid is as stupid does.

The issue is not the list itself but how agents respond when a six year old shows up with the same name.

Here's my point: the airline agent at the airport has to be able to make the right call when Lee H. Oswald shows up but is in fact Lee Henry Oswald and not Lee Harvey Oswald. I don't know how much latitude airline ticket agents have to exercise common sense in these situations. I do know that it's a lot easier to NOT do anything and let DHS/TSA get the blame for it.

They have NO latitude. If a flag shows up, you talk to TSA, and come on, they met with her and realized it was an error and put her on the damned plane, its not like they dragged her into the backroom and did an anal exam to make sure she didn't have a terrorist hiding in her ass.

 

[editec]

The machinery of the police state we have become isn't as finely tuned as the propaganda that makes so many of us support it.

That six year old is merely bureaucratic collatoral damage.

 

[Toome]

That makes sense, except for the fat that the 6 year old is the one getting hassled by the TSA, not whoever has that name that is really on the list. If the TSA can not recognize the fact that a 6 yo is not a terrorist that is bureaucratic incompetence. Considering that some of these children with the same name are frequent fliers you would think that they would get their act together. Instead, they have people, like you, defending them for their stupidity.

Stupid is as stupid does.

The issue is not the list itself but how agents respond when a six year old shows up with the same name.

Here's my point: the airline agent at the airport has to be able to make the right call when Lee H. Oswald shows up but is in fact Lee Henry Oswald and not Lee Harvey Oswald. I don't know how much latitude airline ticket agents have to exercise common sense in these situations. I do know that it's a lot easier to NOT do anything and let DHS/TSA get the blame for it.

They have NO latitude. If a flag shows up, you talk to TSA, and come on, they met with her and realized it was an error and put her on the damned plane, its not like they dragged her into the backroom and did an anal exam to make sure she didn't have a terrorist hiding in her ass.

Let me clarify: one would assume that there's room for common sense at the ticket counter when a name appears to be the same as the one on the no-fly list. As I said, if Lee H. Oswald shows up but is really Lee Henry Oswald not Lee Harvey Oswald, then the ticket counter agent should be able to figure that one out all by herself. Same goes with Lee Harveye Oswald or Lea Harvey Oswald. And if a six year old shows up with the name Lee Harvey Oswald, I would think that the ticket agent shouldn't have a problem will allowing little Lee on the plane because common-fucking-sense should apply. Here's the part I don't know: if the airline is bound by law, regulation or policy to notify TSA that they have a hit on the name but Lee is a six year old with boogers in his nose rather than an adult capable of doing something bad. In other words, I don't know what triggered the airline to notify TSA when, in my mind, this should have been easily handled at the airline ticket counter without all the notifications, press and hooplah that followed.

Bottom line, as you said, is that the little girl got to fly without getting waterboarded. Where's the issue that some in here are having?

 

[ConHog]

The issue is not the list itself but how agents respond when a six year old shows up with the same name.

Here's my point: the airline agent at the airport has to be able to make the right call when Lee H. Oswald shows up but is in fact Lee Henry Oswald and not Lee Harvey Oswald. I don't know how much latitude airline ticket agents have to exercise common sense in these situations. I do know that it's a lot easier to NOT do anything and let DHS/TSA get the blame for it.

They have NO latitude. If a flag shows up, you talk to TSA, and come on, they met with her and realized it was an error and put her on the damned plane, its not like they dragged her into the backroom and did an anal exam to make sure she didn't have a terrorist hiding in her ass.

Let me clarify: one would assume that there's room for common sense at the ticket counter when a name appears to be the same as the one on the no-fly list. As I said, if Lee H. Oswald shows up but is really Lee Henry Oswald not Lee Harvey Oswald, then the ticket counter agent should be able to figure that one out all by herself. Same goes with Lee Harveye Oswald or Lea Harvey Oswald. And if a six year old shows up with the name Lee Harvey Oswald, I would think that the ticket agent shouldn't have a problem will allowing little Lee on the plane because common-fucking-sense should apply. Here's the part I don't know: if the airline is bound by law, regulation or policy to notify TSA that they have a hit on the name but Lee is a six year old with boogers in his nose rather than an adult capable of doing something bad. In other words, I don't know what triggered the airline to notify TSA when, in my mind, this should have been easily handled at the airline ticket counter without all the notifications, press and hooplah that followed.

Bottom line, as you said, is that the little girl got to fly without getting waterboarded. Where's the issue that some in here are having?

Apparently some don't think that she should have been questioned at all. Guess they aren't smart enough to realize that if TSA doesn't confirm that she is in fact the person on their no fly list then they won't be able to remove her from said list. The only way to confirm that is in fact to talk to her.

Still others think that this huge gaffe in the system where occasionally when you're dealing with a database of literally a billion people is cause to just shut down the entire Homeland Security Dept.

Fucking idiots either way you look at it.

 

[editec]

They trying to sift through a million grains of sand with a hammer.

Are any of us really surprised that is isn't working?

 

[Toome]

Backing up a step, I truly do not understand the no-fly list concept. What seems to be more important to me is that the screeners at the checkpoint do their jobs effectively. Even if Osama bin Ladin himself were to board a plane, seems to me that as long as TSA ensures that he isn't carrying any weapons or bombs, then he should be allowed on board. I'm exaggerating, of course, but my point is that TSA isn't in the people-catching business. That's the FBI's job. All TSA should do is make sure that anyone who boards that plane isn't carrying anything dangerous.

Otherwise, when you have non-LEOs trying to identify good guys and bad guys, you end up with SNAFUs like this one.

Criminals and suspects fly all the time. I don't think many people understand that.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Ohio 6-Year-OId Alyssa Thomas Turns Up on Terror Watch List

fucking retards. why do we need them again?

The US Government is reacting exactly the way they have been expected to react to the threat of Islamic fundamentalism. Increasing ridiculous, insure and lying in more transparent ways .
As its reaction becomes more eccentric People and institutions that have trusted the government will begin to fall away and be draw to more stable sources of security .
The new more secure bodies will accumulate more influence and begin to pull the US government traditional allies into there new orbit .

All in accordance to the plan.

 

[Madeline]

Yeah...cut your fucking leg off to heal your stubbed toe. Brilliant...

Riddle me this then, PatekPhillipe. When does a gubbermint agency's performance fall so low, so far below standards, that we get to say "Hey, I ain't getting value for money here. Lemme re-think this."

No one is saying stop protecting the US and its air travelers. What I am saying is fire every goddamned person employed by Homeland Security and all its fingertip agencies. Cancel all its contracts. Start over with the idea of getting an efficient, cost-effective agency built from the ground up next time.

Or do you just enjoy paying 1,000 times what an item is worth? Do you feel safer being protected by idiots who evidentially cannot organize a bake sale?

You cannot be serious!!!! Fire everyone in the Coast Guard? What did they do wrong? Fire everyone in the TSA? What did they do wrong? Fire all the border patrol agents? C'mon now..... How about instead of a knee jerk reaction we take a look at the leadership and policies in place that allowed this to happen....

By "fingertip agency" I meant agencies that did not exist before 9/11. I recollect that would include TSA and exclude the Coast Guard, INS, etc. TSA reminds me of stories we used to hear in Florida of guards the state had hired for highway rest stops, who were later found to have felony records for violent crimes.

But while we are playing "let's make a deal", I would fire every fucking gubbermint worker other than the military and law enforcement, and parse the payroll by about 75%. It just astounds me that anyone thinks the country can survive a generation in which more people work for the gubbermint than work in the private sector.

 

[Madeline]

Backing up a step, I truly do not understand the no-fly list concept. What seems to be more important to me is that the screeners at the checkpoint do their jobs effectively. Even if Osama bin Ladin himself were to board a plane, seems to me that as long as TSA ensures that he isn't carrying any weapons or bombs, then he should be allowed on board. I'm exaggerating, of course, but my point is that TSA isn't in the people-catching business. That's the FBI's job. All TSA should do is make sure that anyone who boards that plane isn't carrying anything dangerous.

Otherwise, when you have non-LEOs trying to identify good guys and bad guys, you end up with SNAFUs like this one.

Criminals and suspects fly all the time. I don't think many people understand that.

Toome, IMO TSA is nothing but feel-good window dressing. If we were serious about preventing airplanes from being hijacked, etc., wouldn't we be x-raying all luggage?

TSA provided some people with psychological safety and no one with any increase in actual safety. I guess for many, that's "good enough".

 

[Toome]

Backing up a step, I truly do not understand the no-fly list concept. What seems to be more important to me is that the screeners at the checkpoint do their jobs effectively. Even if Osama bin Ladin himself were to board a plane, seems to me that as long as TSA ensures that he isn't carrying any weapons or bombs, then he should be allowed on board. I'm exaggerating, of course, but my point is that TSA isn't in the people-catching business. That's the FBI's job. All TSA should do is make sure that anyone who boards that plane isn't carrying anything dangerous.

Otherwise, when you have non-LEOs trying to identify good guys and bad guys, you end up with SNAFUs like this one.

Criminals and suspects fly all the time. I don't think many people understand that.

Toome, IMO TSA is nothing but feel-good window dressing. If we were serious about preventing airplanes from being hijacked, etc., wouldn't we be x-raying all luggage?

TSA provided some people with psychological safety and no one with any increase in actual safety. I guess for many, that's "good enough".

What passenger luggage does not get x-rayed?

 

[rightwinger]

Who wants to fly with a 6 year old?

They are all terrorists...ban them all!

 

[blu]

Backing up a step, I truly do not understand the no-fly list concept. What seems to be more important to me is that the screeners at the checkpoint do their jobs effectively. Even if Osama bin Ladin himself were to board a plane, seems to me that as long as TSA ensures that he isn't carrying any weapons or bombs, then he should be allowed on board. I'm exaggerating, of course, but my point is that TSA isn't in the people-catching business. That's the FBI's job. All TSA should do is make sure that anyone who boards that plane isn't carrying anything dangerous.

Otherwise, when you have non-LEOs trying to identify good guys and bad guys, you end up with SNAFUs like this one.

Criminals and suspects fly all the time. I don't think many people understand that.

 

[blu]

Backing up a step, I truly do not understand the no-fly list concept. What seems to be more important to me is that the screeners at the checkpoint do their jobs effectively. Even if Osama bin Ladin himself were to board a plane, seems to me that as long as TSA ensures that he isn't carrying any weapons or bombs, then he should be allowed on board. I'm exaggerating, of course, but my point is that TSA isn't in the people-catching business. That's the FBI's job. All TSA should do is make sure that anyone who boards that plane isn't carrying anything dangerous.

Otherwise, when you have non-LEOs trying to identify good guys and bad guys, you end up with SNAFUs like this one.

Criminals and suspects fly all the time. I don't think many people understand that.

on top of this, *experienced* security people should be hired. right now all you need is a ged and you are put in front of our nations airline security. the dumbest of the dumb is responsible for catching al qaeda sneaking in bombs in the most creative of ways... who do you think will win?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Riddle me this then, PatekPhillipe. When does a gubbermint agency's performance fall so low, so far below standards, that we get to say "Hey, I ain't getting value for money here. Lemme re-think this."

No one is saying stop protecting the US and its air travelers. What I am saying is fire every goddamned person employed by Homeland Security and all its fingertip agencies. Cancel all its contracts. Start over with the idea of getting an efficient, cost-effective agency built from the ground up next time.

Or do you just enjoy paying 1,000 times what an item is worth? Do you feel safer being protected by idiots who evidentially cannot organize a bake sale?

You cannot be serious!!!! Fire everyone in the Coast Guard? What did they do wrong? Fire everyone in the TSA? What did they do wrong? Fire all the border patrol agents? C'mon now..... How about instead of a knee jerk reaction we take a look at the leadership and policies in place that allowed this to happen....

By "fingertip agency" I meant agencies that did not exist before 9/11. I recollect that would include TSA and exclude the Coast Guard, INS, etc. TSA reminds me of stories we used to hear in Florida of guards the state had hired for highway rest stops, who were later found to have felony records for violent crimes.

But while we are playing "let's make a deal", I would fire every fucking gubbermint worker other than the military and law enforcement, and parse the payroll by about 75%. It just astounds me that anyone thinks the country can survive a generation in which more people work for the gubbermint than work in the private sector.

Good luck getting your social security claim filed...and your medicare claims taken care of....or your roads paved...and are you trying to tell me that the Fed employs more than 154,500,000 people? I think not.

 

[blu]

Backing up a step, I truly do not understand the no-fly list concept. What seems to be more important to me is that the screeners at the checkpoint do their jobs effectively. Even if Osama bin Ladin himself were to board a plane, seems to me that as long as TSA ensures that he isn't carrying any weapons or bombs, then he should be allowed on board. I'm exaggerating, of course, but my point is that TSA isn't in the people-catching business. That's the FBI's job. All TSA should do is make sure that anyone who boards that plane isn't carrying anything dangerous.

Otherwise, when you have non-LEOs trying to identify good guys and bad guys, you end up with SNAFUs like this one.

Criminals and suspects fly all the time. I don't think many people understand that.

Toome, IMO TSA is nothing but feel-good window dressing. If we were serious about preventing airplanes from being hijacked, etc., wouldn't we be x-raying all luggage?

TSA provided some people with psychological safety and no one with any increase in actual safety. I guess for many, that's "good enough".

yep its make those pussies who are too scared to live free feel better that big brother has their back

 

[Douger]

Ohio 6-Year-OId Alyssa Thomas Turns Up on Terror Watch List

fucking retards. why do we need them again?

You unMurkin, terrariss supporting piece of shit. Those brave young men and women are defending your FreeDumb !

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Ohio 6-Year-OId Alyssa Thomas Turns Up on Terror Watch List

fucking retards. why do we need them again?

You unMurkin, terrariss supporting piece of shit. Those brave young men and women are defending your FreeDumb !

You got a fucking croissant stuck in your mouth or do you want to bring something constructive to the discussion.

 

[syrenn]

Alright everyone raise hands WHO FLYS here? I deal with these idiot ass holes every few weeks.

I've never had a problem with them....as a matter of fact I compliment them on the job they're doing....it isn't easy putting up with fucking assholes who bitch and complain about having to take their laptops out of the case and have to throw away their water because they still can't remember that no liquids over 100ml are aloud in their carryons.

What about the no knives bit? I fly first class and they give you two knives with every service. So that one is a bunch of bullshit. They started using metal cutlery again about a year after the rule went into effect.

And as to liquids. What do you think breast implants are? Planning to bar all women with them from flying? How about the women with formula for the babies? That sure as hell is more then 100ml in the bottle.

just something to think about

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Alright everyone raise hands WHO FLYS here? I deal with these idiot ass holes every few weeks.

I've never had a problem with them....as a matter of fact I compliment them on the job they're doing....it isn't easy putting up with fucking assholes who bitch and complain about having to take their laptops out of the case and have to throw away their water because they still can't remember that no liquids over 100ml are aloud in their carryons.

What about the no knives bit? I fly first class and they give you two knives with every service. So that one is a bunch of bullshit. They started using metal cutlery again about a year after the rule went into effect.

And as to liquids. What do you think breast implants are? Planning to bar all women with them from flying? How about the women with formula for the babies? That sure as hell is more then 100ml in the bottle.

just something to think about

My wife and I had ZERO problems with baby milk and I just can't see a women cutting open her breast to obtain her liquified explosives she had placed in her chest by her plastic surgeon...

I fly 1st as well and I see the knives you get....are you wanting to bring your Arkansas toothpick with your carryon items?

 

[syrenn]

What passenger luggage does not get x-rayed?

Are you talking carry on or checked baggage?

Most checked baggage does not get X-rayed.