Can Texas be put in play?

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Not sure if it will ever be in play with the economy shrinking as it is under democrat watch.

With the Dow reaching 14,000 and S&P over 1500

Is the economy shrinking?

I guess we will see - but I've been hearing the GOP going all chicken little on the economy for about five years now - even as the economic indicators inch upward. Oh really ????

But who knows, maybe they'll get lucky and spark another crash.

Well apparently the economy is shrinking, to the surprise of a lot of "experts".

Economic growth shrinks in fourth quarter

Updated: 01/30/2013 09:52am

The U.S. economy posted a decline of 0.1% at an annual rate last quarter, shocking experts although there was an expectation that growth would be lower than the 3.1% gain in the third quarter, the government said Wednesday.

It's the first decline in GDP since a -0.3% decline in 2009's third quarter. A survey of economists by Bloomberg had expected growth of 1% in the fourth quarter, held back by a plunge in defense spending and business inventories along with the impact of Superstorm Sandy, among other factors.


USA TODAY

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

if obama can make voters out of illegals then texas can be in play. Does anyone on this forum think that people in the country illegally should be allowed to vote? anyone?

Not any more than convicted felons serving their time should.

 

[Dubya]

This thread reaffirms the premise of the OP

Republicans will never recapture the Hispanic vote. The hatred is just too strong. Texas will eventually be in play as the Hispanic influence increases and more Yankees move to the state

Enforcing current Federal Law is hardly hatred. Unfortunately all amnesty will do is upset those immigrants who make an effort to go through the long process of attaining citizenship "legally" by obeying the current law already in place. Its not all that hard for hispanics to wait at the end of the line and follow the very same laws other immigrants have been using for over 100 years. To make a clean sweep forgiveness policy on a quick road towards legalization will only succeed to cheapen the hard works of other immigrants striving to become American citizens.

You are the only idiots talking about amnesty. It takes years for people to begin their road to American citizenship, because there are quotas. These illegal immigrants aren't in a foreign country applying to go to the US and become a citizen; they are already here and some have been here for a long time. They are here because they were given jobs and the laws prohibiting hiring illegals wasn't enforced. They don't get amnesty, but are started down the road to citizenship, just like someone who has applied and been accepted.

To show you how stupid Republicans and right-wingers are, consider the suggestion of making illegals pay $100 per month. $1,200 per year for 11 million illegal immigrants is $13.2 billion per year. If illegal immigrants are allowed to become citizens and keep that money, they will spend it on whatever normal people in need spend their money on. That money will mostly be spent in local businesses. The alternative is to allow the government to have it, so the government sells $13.2 billion per year less in bonds. Somebody isn't able to buy those bonds and has to invest elsewhere. Which way stimulates the economy and creates more jobs and tax revenue? If you want to get $13.2 billion per year more in revenue at this moment, raise the taxes on people who can afford it, because they aren't going to spend that extra money and stimulate the economy. If you really want to pay off debt, like we were when Bush took office, we have to grow our way out.

 

[Dubya]

if obama can make voters out of illegals then texas can be in play. Does anyone on this forum think that people in the country illegally should be allowed to vote? anyone?

Citizens can vote, so no immigrant can vote until they become a citizen.

Didn't you know that?

 

[Katzndogz]

67% of Texans want obama impeached.

Can Texas be put into play?

No.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I don't think there should be a penalty imposed on an illegal immigrant. For one thing they are mostly poor, so taking that money from them just means they aren't going to spend it in the economy. How is it justice to impose a penalty on people who came to America out of need and not pose a penalty on those who hired them out of greed?

There were problems with the Reagan amnesty. They didn't allow people to bring in foreign seasonal farm workers and they didn't enforce laws against employing illegal aliens. Very few illegal aliens will stay in a country, if they can't work. What we need is a system to fine employers who don't verify the legal status of their workers. They should start off with a fine and keep doubling it after each offense. Let's say a company has 3 illegal aliens in it's workforce after immigration reform. I think a fair initial fine would be $1,000 per offense and the expenses to deport the person. During the immigration reform process, the companies or individuals who hire illegals should be given a chance to determine the legal status of the person they have hired and urge them to get into the immigration reform program. If an illegal immigrant has ties to America and isn't someone who just crossed to get citizenship, then they should be given a road to citizenship. Once we are passed immigration reform, there shouldn't be mercy on people or employers abusing the new system. An employer caught hiring illegals 8 times is at the $128,000 per offense level, plus deportation costs. Those costs should include confinement and police escort to a one way ticket out of America. The illegal is allowed to keep property, such as clothing and hygiene products that they can carry, while leaving the country. Other property like a car or TV is confiscated for the fine of being an illegal alien. Any money they have over a certain amount is confiscated.

Immigration reform should include new quotas to allow more immigration to America. We need to grow our way out of our problems. Foreigners who graduated from our colleges and have needed skills should be offered a path to citizenship. We should avoid a system where once illegals are sending money out of the country to support their families. Non-citizens should only get emergency social services and only on the conditions that it's a loan, that has to be repaid. A criminal who hasn't reached citizenship should be deported, unless it's a minor offense.

I believe a person SHOULD face a penalty for breaking our laws. You don't forgive a man who robs or steals because of his dire financial situation - breaking immigration laws should carry at least some penalty. If becoming a citizen of the United States of America isn't worth $100 a month for two years to you - then beat it.

Employer fines don't work well either. Many illegals earn money as independent contractors - so technically, they are self employed. Your "fine the employer" approach just dries up and blows away in these cases. There is also a Constuitional problem with confiscating personal property.

Other than those exceptions, I think you have a couple of good ideas.

I'm sure that's why all you right-wingers have mentioned fining the employers of these illegal immigrants, because you all know that's a crime, too.

Why don't you go back and quote a list of right-winger saying that? Those illegals wouldn't be here without a job.

There isn't a constitutional problem confiscating property, when it's done through due process in court.

But yet O targeted employers. Your facts are backwards.

Obama Administration Targets Illegal Hiring Again - WSJ.com

 

[Dubya]

I believe a person SHOULD face a penalty for breaking our laws. You don't forgive a man who robs or steals because of his dire financial situation - breaking immigration laws should carry at least some penalty. If becoming a citizen of the United States of America isn't worth $100 a month for two years to you - then beat it.

Employer fines don't work well either. Many illegals earn money as independent contractors - so technically, they are self employed. Your "fine the employer" approach just dries up and blows away in these cases. There is also a Constuitional problem with confiscating personal property.

Other than those exceptions, I think you have a couple of good ideas.

I'm sure that's why all you right-wingers have mentioned fining the employers of these illegal immigrants, because you all know that's a crime, too.

Why don't you go back and quote a list of right-winger saying that? Those illegals wouldn't be here without a job.

There isn't a constitutional problem confiscating property, when it's done through due process in court.

But yet O targeted employers. Your facts are backwards.

Obama Administration Targets Illegal Hiring Again - WSJ.com

Targeting employers and removing the jobs is the only border security that works.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

This thread reaffirms the premise of the OP

Republicans will never recapture the Hispanic vote. The hatred is just too strong. Texas will eventually be in play as the Hispanic influence increases and more Yankees move to the state

Enforcing current Federal Law is hardly hatred. Unfortunately all amnesty will do is upset those immigrants who make an effort to go through the long process of attaining citizenship "legally" by obeying the current law already in place. Its not all that hard for hispanics to wait at the end of the line and follow the very same laws other immigrants have been using for over 100 years. To make a clean sweep forgiveness policy on a quick road towards legalization will only succeed to cheapen the hard works of other immigrants striving to become American citizens.

You are the only idiots talking about amnesty. It takes years for people to begin their road to American citizenship, because there are quotas. These illegal immigrants aren't in a foreign country applying to go to the US and become a citizen; they are already here and some have been here for a long time...

Yes they are here "illegally" as they did not go through the process of attaining citizenship when they crossed the border into the United States. They snuck across the border and have broken the law. If they want to attain citizenship there is a process, the same as any foreign immigrant from any other country undergoes. They can go in the back of the line and seek citizenship, instead of favoritism. What Obama is proposing, a pathway to citizenship for those already in the country ILLEGALLY and desiring to become legal citizens, it IS amnesty. Any pathway to citizenship OUTSIDE of what already exists by law for immigrants is amnesty, plain and simple.

We have immigrants from other countries desiring the same status of "citizenship", they are foreigners too whether through a work visa, or visiting family that's already acquired citizenship. The big difference here is that these Hispanics living in the United States came here ILLEGALLY and they shouldn't be treated any differently or "special" than any other immigrant. Hispanics don't deserve preferred special treatment for breaking Federal Law! Period!

 

[Dubya]

Enforcing current Federal Law is hardly hatred. Unfortunately all amnesty will do is upset those immigrants who make an effort to go through the long process of attaining citizenship "legally" by obeying the current law already in place. Its not all that hard for hispanics to wait at the end of the line and follow the very same laws other immigrants have been using for over 100 years. To make a clean sweep forgiveness policy on a quick road towards legalization will only succeed to cheapen the hard works of other immigrants striving to become American citizens.

You are the only idiots talking about amnesty. It takes years for people to begin their road to American citizenship, because there are quotas. These illegal immigrants aren't in a foreign country applying to go to the US and become a citizen; they are already here and some have been here for a long time...

Yes they are here "illegally" as they did not go through the process of attaining citizenship when they crossed the border into the United States. They snuck across the border and have broken the law. If they want to attain citizenship there is a process, the same as any foreign immigrant from any other country undergoes. They can go in the back of the line and seek citizenship, instead of favoritism. What Obama is proposing, a pathway to citizenship for those already in the country ILLEGALLY and desiring to become legal citizens, it IS amnesty. Any pathway to citizenship OUTSIDE of what already exists by law for immigrants is amnesty, plain and simple.

We have immigrants from other countries desiring the same status of "citizenship", they are foreigners too whether through a work visa, or visiting family that's already acquired citizenship. The big difference here is that these Hispanics living in the United States came here ILLEGALLY and they shouldn't be treated any differently or "special" than any other immigrant. Hispanics don't deserve preferred special treatment for breaking Federal Law! Period!

The employers who broke the law enticing illegals to come here have done more wrong than an illegal has done. You aren't worried about that law, are you? What makes you think this country supports your position? The country has an illegal alien problem and no mechanism to remove 11 million people, fool! The jobs offered to illegal aliens are what caused the problem and making sure jobs aren't offered to illegal aliens, after immigration reform, is the only solution to keep them out of the country.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

You are the only idiots talking about amnesty. It takes years for people to begin their road to American citizenship, because there are quotas. These illegal immigrants aren't in a foreign country applying to go to the US and become a citizen; they are already here and some have been here for a long time...

Yes they are here "illegally" as they did not go through the process of attaining citizenship when they crossed the border into the United States. They snuck across the border and have broken the law. If they want to attain citizenship there is a process, the same as any foreign immigrant from any other country undergoes. They can go in the back of the line and seek citizenship, instead of favoritism. What Obama is proposing, a pathway to citizenship for those already in the country ILLEGALLY and desiring to become legal citizens, it IS amnesty. Any pathway to citizenship OUTSIDE of what already exists by law for immigrants is amnesty, plain and simple.

We have immigrants from other countries desiring the same status of "citizenship", they are foreigners too whether through a work visa, or visiting family that's already acquired citizenship. The big difference here is that these Hispanics living in the United States came here ILLEGALLY and they shouldn't be treated any differently or "special" than any other immigrant. Hispanics don't deserve preferred special treatment for breaking Federal Law! Period!

The employers who broke the law enticing illegals to come here have done more wrong than an illegal has done. You aren't worried about that law, are you? What makes you think this country supports your position? The country has an illegal alien problem and no mechanism to remove 11 million people, fool! The jobs offered to illegal aliens are what caused the problem and making sure jobs aren't offered to illegal aliens, after immigration reform, is the only solution to keep them out of the country.

Sealing up the border and allowing the border states to enforce Federal immigration laws is the first action to any flow of illegals into this country. Hefty fines on employers, as well as cutting Federal Funding to states who harbor illegals ( through local or state laws that support "sanctuary cities")and don't turn them over to ICE for deportation is second. Then finally, those Hispanics here ILLEGALLY don't get any specialized preferential treatment, there is an immigration policy already in place to attain citizenship. These illegals can follow current immigration procedures like any other immigrant, and go through the waiting period like every other immigrant, and obtain their citizenship. There is no excuse or reason why ONE ethnic group of immigrants ought to be treated differently from everyone else ..... none, zip, nada. We already have an immigration policy and its high time it gets enforced !!

 

[Dragonlady]

We already have an immigration policy and its high time it gets enforced !!

Your current immigrations policies have left you with 11 million undocument people living in your country. And if you did throw them out of the country, what would happen to all of the jobs they currently hold - jobs that don't even pay minimum wage?

Sealing the border is both physically impossible and prohibitively expensive and it still won't solve the problem because you have thousands of miles of coastline in the Gulf and up the Pacific Coast. Hispanics from Mexico and Central America can just as easily land a boat on a remote bit of shore line, or smuggle people in by air.

The only realistic way to stop illegal immigration is to punish those who hire them.

 

[Dubya]

Yes they are here "illegally" as they did not go through the process of attaining citizenship when they crossed the border into the United States. They snuck across the border and have broken the law. If they want to attain citizenship there is a process, the same as any foreign immigrant from any other country undergoes. They can go in the back of the line and seek citizenship, instead of favoritism. What Obama is proposing, a pathway to citizenship for those already in the country ILLEGALLY and desiring to become legal citizens, it IS amnesty. Any pathway to citizenship OUTSIDE of what already exists by law for immigrants is amnesty, plain and simple.

We have immigrants from other countries desiring the same status of "citizenship", they are foreigners too whether through a work visa, or visiting family that's already acquired citizenship. The big difference here is that these Hispanics living in the United States came here ILLEGALLY and they shouldn't be treated any differently or "special" than any other immigrant. Hispanics don't deserve preferred special treatment for breaking Federal Law! Period!

The employers who broke the law enticing illegals to come here have done more wrong than an illegal has done. You aren't worried about that law, are you? What makes you think this country supports your position? The country has an illegal alien problem and no mechanism to remove 11 million people, fool! The jobs offered to illegal aliens are what caused the problem and making sure jobs aren't offered to illegal aliens, after immigration reform, is the only solution to keep them out of the country.

Sealing up the border and allowing the border states to enforce Federal immigration laws is the first action to any flow of illegals into this country. Hefty fines on employers, as well as cutting Federal Funding to states who harbor illegals ( through local or state laws that support "sanctuary cities")and don't turn them over to ICE for deportation is second. Then finally, those Hispanics here ILLEGALLY don't get any specialized preferential treatment, there is an immigration policy already in place to attain citizenship. These illegals can follow current immigration procedures like any other immigrant, and go through the waiting period like every other immigrant, and obtain their citizenship. There is no excuse or reason why ONE ethnic group of immigrants ought to be treated differently from everyone else ..... none, zip, nada. We already have an immigration policy and its high time it gets enforced !!

Solutions have to work and what you propose doesn't work. The illegal immigration problem of today is a product of it's past, so consider the changes since the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 was signed over 26 years ago. That law took about a year and a half to get passed and signed, gave citizenship to around 3 million immigrants and didn't solve the problem. The downturn of the economy has done more to stop illegal immigration than any enforcement effort. The time to do something about immigration reform is now, while the numbers are low.

Mass deportation is estimated to cost $41 billion per year and all the economic damage it will create. Deporting 11 million people who often do jobs that American citizens won't work will have a hugh economic impact. Normal people don't consider that a practical solution. Normal people don't consider fences a practical solution, because people are smart enough to get across a fence. They aren't Republicans.

The solution to our illegal immigration problem needs a comprehensive approach. First off, we need a system that deals with all the estimated illegal immigrants in America. Immigrants are not given citizenship before they walk into this country, they are just given permission to enter and apply for citizenship. That's what you call going through the process of attaining citizenship. The difference is these illegal immigrants are here and if something isn't done, it will only become more of a problem in the future. If you want to call it amnesty, I don't care, but getting all illegal immigrants on board is the only solution. Some may not qualify to apply for citizenship, because they are recent arrivals, but they should include people with close family ties living in America. It should be made clear that illegal immigration will no longer be tolerated in America and someone getting caught being an illegal immigrant after a certain date will never be allowed to gain American citizenship. They will be deported and thrown in jail and deported, if they reenter the United States.

The key to stopping the problem is creating an ID that can't be faked. We can create a photo ID for immigrants and state photo ID or driver's license that includes citizenship status. Any form of ID can be checked against a photo data base, so the picture in the data base would have to match the photo ID and person. The ID system should include all people of working age, so even children that work should be required to obtain a photo ID. We could even include fingerprinting the illegal immigrant applying for citizenship.

I've already explained on another post how to prevent identity theft by checking various data bases to locate the people doing it and developing a system to better report deaths. That would prevent an illegal immigrant from assuming the identity of an American citizen, whether dead or alive.

The simple point has always been if you can stop illegal immigrants from getting jobs in America, then they aren't going to come to America. An employer can check the photo on the ID to make sure it matches the person he hires, but the employer could also send a copy of that picture to verify that the picture is the same as the picture in the data base. A system that would prevent hiring an illegal immigrant would insure an employer doesn't get a heavy fine and deportation costs if they did. If the employer had any doubt about the photo ID matching the person, they could also send a present day photo of that individual or require them to get a better photo ID. The service to check the data base could be done at a very nominal fee. A person or employer who willfully hired an illegal immigrant would be harshly dealt with.

Once immigration reform begins, all illegal immigrants discovered are fined enough to remove all their property except things like clothing, hygiene products and small sums of money and are deported. If they are discovered owning a house, car or any other item, it's confiscated. These tough penalties are necessary to make some illegal immigrants come out of the shadows, for whatever reason they may want to stay there and this should be explained at the beginning of immigration reform. To make immigration reform work, it has to be a one time fix and not repeated in the future.

Legal immigration should also be reviewed to grow the American population and increase our economic output. Together with fair trade policies that bring back jobs, we can grow our way out of our problems. There is no sense in getting other countries to make things we can make ourselves.

Now I don't expect far right-wing people or people with their biased ideologies to approve of my suggestions. Some people may believe the whole world has to be equal and fair or that different things are all the same. Some may believe allowing a majority Hispanic illegal immigrant population to become citizens will have political consequences. Whatever their reasons to suggest things that they know aren't going to happen or would be a disaster if they did, I don't care. I'm just looking for a common sense solution to end the illegal immigration problems in America and not have to deal with it ever again. Illegal immigration will not stop, but it can be made manageable where deportation would work.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Democrats Launch Plan to Make Texas a Swing State

National Democrats "are taking steps to create a large-scale independent group aimed at turning traditionally conservative Texas into a prime electoral battleground, crafting a new initiative to identify and mobilize progressive voters in the rapidly-changing state," Politico reports.

"The organization, dubbed 'Battleground Texas,' plans to engage the state's rapidly growing Latino population, as well as African-American voters and other Democratic-leaning constituencies that have been underrepresented at the ballot box in recent cycles.

Step up being soft on border security and not enforcing US immigration laws, then Democrats will have Texas in play.

 

[rightwinger]

Democrats Launch Plan to Make Texas a Swing State

National Democrats "are taking steps to create a large-scale independent group aimed at turning traditionally conservative Texas into a prime electoral battleground, crafting a new initiative to identify and mobilize progressive voters in the rapidly-changing state," Politico reports.

"The organization, dubbed 'Battleground Texas,' plans to engage the state's rapidly growing Latino population, as well as African-American voters and other Democratic-leaning constituencies that have been underrepresented at the ballot box in recent cycles.

Step up being soft on border security and not enforcing US immigration laws, then Democrats will have Texas in play.

Keep harassing legal Mexican citizens and Texas will be Blue forever