Can Paris summit save two-state solution?

[Indeependent]

The Vatican!
What a shock!

 

[Andylusion]

ForeverYoung436, et al,

I agree 100%.

Eloy, et al,

The Arab Palestinians endured "brutal suffering" because they shot themselves in the foot.

The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

I think, if you check your history, the Arab Palestinians rejected their own state as the international community recommended.

UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION First Special Report to the Security Council:
The Problem of Security in Palestine A/AC.21/9 S/676 16 February 1948
6. The Secretary-General has been informed by the Arab Higher Committee that is determined to persist in its rejection of the partition plan and in its refusal to recognize the resolution of the Assembly and “anything deriving therefrom”. The Subsequent communication of 6 February to the Secretary-General from the representative of the Arab Higher Committee set forth the following conclusions of the Arab Higher Committee Delegation:

“a. The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

“b. The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power or group of powers to establish a Jewish State in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense by force.

c. It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said commission.

d. The United Nations or its commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

e. The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.

f. The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

g. The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

“The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out – man women and child.​

Most Respectfully,
R

That was then, this is now.

Exactly. Tinmore, monte and Rocco endlessly debating the past solves absolutely nothing.

(QUESTIONs)

• When did the Hostile Arab Palestinian accept "having their own state as the international community recommends?"

• What Peace Treaty did the HoAP sign with Israel to conclude hostilities?

Let's discuss that!

Most Respectfully,
R

The state of Palestine is not only claimed by Palestinians but accepted by some United Nations agencies and countries, the latest being the Vatican state.

Pope Francis welcomes President Abbas upon the opening of the Palestine embassy in the Vatican state

But that doesn't matter. Again, you are missing the point. Unless the Arabs and Jews accept it.... it doesn't matter how many other countries accept it.

If the area of Palestine was accepted as a nation, by every single country on the face of the Earth, except Israel, and the people of Palestine didn't accept that Israel exists (which they do not)....

Then it does not matter what Pope Francis or anyone else accepts it, does it? Because they will still be fighting each other.

 

[Eloy]

ForeverYoung436, et al,

I agree 100%.

Eloy, et al,

The Arab Palestinians endured "brutal suffering" because they shot themselves in the foot.

(COMMENT)

I think, if you check your history, the Arab Palestinians rejected their own state as the international community recommended.

UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION First Special Report to the Security Council:
The Problem of Security in Palestine A/AC.21/9 S/676 16 February 1948
6. The Secretary-General has been informed by the Arab Higher Committee that is determined to persist in its rejection of the partition plan and in its refusal to recognize the resolution of the Assembly and “anything deriving therefrom”. The Subsequent communication of 6 February to the Secretary-General from the representative of the Arab Higher Committee set forth the following conclusions of the Arab Higher Committee Delegation:

“a. The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

“b. The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power or group of powers to establish a Jewish State in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense by force.

c. It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said commission.

d. The United Nations or its commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

e. The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.

f. The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

g. The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

“The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out – man women and child.​

Most Respectfully,
R

That was then, this is now.

Exactly. Tinmore, monte and Rocco endlessly debating the past solves absolutely nothing.

(QUESTIONs)

• When did the Hostile Arab Palestinian accept "having their own state as the international community recommends?"

• What Peace Treaty did the HoAP sign with Israel to conclude hostilities?

Let's discuss that!

Most Respectfully,
R

The state of Palestine is not only claimed by Palestinians but accepted by some United Nations agencies and countries, the latest being the Vatican state.

Pope Francis welcomes President Abbas upon the opening of the Palestine embassy in the Vatican state

But that doesn't matter. Again, you are missing the point. Unless the Arabs and Jews accept it.... it doesn't matter how many other countries accept it.

If the area of Palestine was accepted as a nation, by every single country on the face of the Earth, except Israel, and the people of Palestine didn't accept that Israel exists (which they do not)....

Then it does not matter what Pope Francis or anyone else accepts it, does it? Because they will still be fighting each other.

Recognition of the state of Palestine matters to Palestinians and the 70 countries who attended the Paris summit.

 

[Andylusion]

ForeverYoung436, et al,

I agree 100%.

That was then, this is now.

Exactly. Tinmore, monte and Rocco endlessly debating the past solves absolutely nothing.

(QUESTIONs)

• When did the Hostile Arab Palestinian accept "having their own state as the international community recommends?"

• What Peace Treaty did the HoAP sign with Israel to conclude hostilities?

Let's discuss that!

Most Respectfully,
R

The state of Palestine is not only claimed by Palestinians but accepted by some United Nations agencies and countries, the latest being the Vatican state.

Pope Francis welcomes President Abbas upon the opening of the Palestine embassy in the Vatican state

But that doesn't matter. Again, you are missing the point. Unless the Arabs and Jews accept it.... it doesn't matter how many other countries accept it.

If the area of Palestine was accepted as a nation, by every single country on the face of the Earth, except Israel, and the people of Palestine didn't accept that Israel exists (which they do not)....

Then it does not matter what Pope Francis or anyone else accepts it, does it? Because they will still be fighting each other.

Recognition of the state of Palestine matters to Palestinians and the 70 countries who attended the Paris summit.

It only matters to the Palestinians because they believe they can use this to harm Israel. Their end goal, which they have stated hundreds of times, is to destroy Israel. Everything they think they can use to achieve that goal, is a plus.

Yes, I'm sure it matters to all the other countries who attended the Paris summit.

Now, back to the claim of a solution.... do you think that because it matters, that the Arabs are not going to keep killing Jews? No. Do you think the Jews will stop growing and expanding? No. Do you think any of the violence is going to end because of the Paris Summit?

Did it end with all the previous summits and meetings? No.

Why? Because the Arabs want to wipe Israel off the planet, and Israel believes they have a divine right to the land.

Again... you claim it matters to the people who were there...... Great. What changed on the ground in Israel? Nothing. So how did it really.....REALLY..... matter? Answer.... it didn't.

 

[rylah]

They will annex both, and do what they've been accused of for decades - they will finally remove the arab muslims and send them back to their native countries - what they should have done in 1967 when the arabs were threatening and attempting to mass murder all of the jews.

The world and the muslim filth will be "aflame" for about 5 years, and then everything will go back to normal.

They're in their native countries already...first you call for muslim genocide, then ethnic cleansing. Make up your mind.

No, all of them, without exception, or immigrant from other lands. They are not natives to the land of Israel.

You can call it whatever you want. I don't care. The non-Israelis will be forced out. One or another, they will leave the land. They will either leave on their own, they will leave by force, or they will die.

That's the only options that they themselves have created for themselves.

They could have been Israeli citizens by now. They choose against that. So they get what they get.

How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.

A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

From 1:46...


There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.

How should we settle this dillema?

No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.

The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.

Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.

Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.

On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?

 

[rylah]

No, all of them, without exception, or immigrant from other lands. They are not natives to the land of Israel.

You can call it whatever you want. I don't care. The non-Israelis will be forced out. One or another, they will leave the land. They will either leave on their own, they will leave by force, or they will die.

That's the only options that they themselves have created for themselves.

They could have been Israeli citizens by now. They choose against that. So they get what they get.

How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.

A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.

How should we settle this dillema?

One way to solve the Jewish problem with Palestinians is not to heed the ignorant codswallop of a Palestinian Mufti but between men and women of reason and compassion to recognize the rights of the Palestinian people now under Israeli blockade and occupation to have their own state and live in peace as well as their claims on the land of their birth and that of their fathers.

Thank You for pointing out that it's a Jewish problem with Palestinians, not a political one. This is more accurate regarding the history of Palestine.

One cannot disregard the words of the Palestinian Mufti and his son heading the same position today and dictating much of the Palestinian agenda.

The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.

Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?

Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.

 

[rylah]

That any Palestinian objected to the conquest and colonization of Palestine when it initiated by the British on behalf of the Euroepan Jews, including the Palestinian leadership at the time, is a natural response any people would have. Why do you find it surprising , or wrong?

more mindless slogans- here's a stick with a board to write them down-

 

[rylah]

Again arguing for Jewish heritage to be in the hands of Arabs has proven unproductive and destructive though decades of experience, a wide range of evidence already provided.

Bottom line - common sense tells Israelis need concrete guarantees.
Otherwise all this is just criticism and speculation targeting only one side.

I can see your refusal to cooperate with a Palestinian state.

Let me understand- the fact that I demand guarantees for a contract means I refuse to cooperate?

This is a very radical approach, actually showing how one side will grasp at anything to avoid an agreement.

No, your brazen use of the terminology Judah and Sumeria while pretending that there is not already a de facto annexation of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, demonstrates the Israeli unwillingness to have any discussion of a two-state solution to the Israeli problem with Palestinians.

Calling Jerusalem 'Al Quds' and Hebron 'al Halil' doesn't bother You.

I have learned to live with countries changing the names of cities. St. Petersburg became Petrograd then Leningrad, then St. Petersburg again. What people call their own cities makes no difference to me.

So if it doesn't make difference with people calling their cities how the like, why are You all a sudden bothered with people calling the are Judea Samaria, You know exactly like it was written in geography books for centuries?

This is ridiculous- an Arab Palestinian who's recent ancestors massacred and destroyed Jewish cities all over Palestine is ok, but an Israeli who says "Judea Samaria" is enough reason to continue the war.

 

[rylah]

No, all of them, without exception, or immigrant from other lands. They are not natives to the land of Israel.

You can call it whatever you want. I don't care. The non-Israelis will be forced out. One or another, they will leave the land. They will either leave on their own, they will leave by force, or they will die.

That's the only options that they themselves have created for themselves.

They could have been Israeli citizens by now. They choose against that. So they get what they get.

How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.

A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.

How should we settle this dillema?

One way to solve the Jewish problem with Palestinians is not to heed the ignorant codswallop of a Palestinian Mufti but between men and women of reason and compassion to recognize the rights of the Palestinian people now under Israeli blockade and occupation to have their own state and live in peace as well as their claims on the land of their birth and that of their fathers.

Don't You see something missing here?

I've started with the notion that ALL Palestinian demands are met.
And asked what would happen next.
All I've been reading since are only demands towards Israeli side.

One thing at a time. Predicting the future is harder than understanding the present.

So tell me when is the time Your arguments become based on concrete facts?

 

[montelatici]

They're in their native countries already...first you call for muslim genocide, then ethnic cleansing. Make up your mind.

No, all of them, without exception, or immigrant from other lands. They are not natives to the land of Israel.

You can call it whatever you want. I don't care. The non-Israelis will be forced out. One or another, they will leave the land. They will either leave on their own, they will leave by force, or they will die.

That's the only options that they themselves have created for themselves.

They could have been Israeli citizens by now. They choose against that. So they get what they get.

How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.

A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

From 1:46...


There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.

How should we settle this dillema?

No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.

The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.

Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.

Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.

On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?

You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.

 

[rylah]

No, all of them, without exception, or immigrant from other lands. They are not natives to the land of Israel.

You can call it whatever you want. I don't care. The non-Israelis will be forced out. One or another, they will leave the land. They will either leave on their own, they will leave by force, or they will die.

That's the only options that they themselves have created for themselves.

They could have been Israeli citizens by now. They choose against that. So they get what they get.

How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.

A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

From 1:46...


There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.

How should we settle this dillema?

No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.

The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.

Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.

Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.

On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?

You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.

Nothing to do with religion, as You know most Zionists were secular.

It's a simple fact You miss- there're no mountains in Palestine called "Christian mountains"...but there're "Judean desert" and "Judean mountains"

 

[Shusha]

Why is the family of a Muslim immigrant from Egypt in the 1930s "Palestinian" and the family of a Jewish immigrant from Russia in the 1930s "foreign settler invaders"?

I believe the immigration to Palestine of Russian Jews in the 1930s would have been extremely exceptional whereas indigenous Arab Muslims were the typical population.

You didn't answer the question. Why are some immigrant families considered "Palestinian" and some are not? What criteria must an immigrant meet to be considered "Palestinian"?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why is the family of a Muslim immigrant from Egypt in the 1930s "Palestinian" and the family of a Jewish immigrant from Russia in the 1930s "foreign settler invaders"?

I believe the immigration to Palestine of Russian Jews in the 1930s would have been extremely exceptional whereas indigenous Arab Muslims were the typical population.

You didn't answer the question. Why are some immigrant families considered "Palestinian" and some are not? What criteria must an immigrant meet to be considered "Palestinian"?

It depend on why they went to Palestine.

If they went there to find a home, get a job, and live with the other Palestinians they are immigrants.

If they went there to destroy Palestine and create their own state they are not.

 

[Eloy]

How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.

A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.

How should we settle this dillema?

One way to solve the Jewish problem with Palestinians is not to heed the ignorant codswallop of a Palestinian Mufti but between men and women of reason and compassion to recognize the rights of the Palestinian people now under Israeli blockade and occupation to have their own state and live in peace as well as their claims on the land of their birth and that of their fathers.

Thank You for pointing out that it's a Jewish problem with Palestinians, not a political one. This is more accurate regarding the history of Palestine.

One cannot disregard the words of the Palestinian Mufti and his son heading the same position today and dictating much of the Palestinian agenda.

The Jewish problem with Palestinians causes brutal suffering for the Palestinian people. You are right that it is not political. It is more a problem of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. As long as the Israelis oppress the Palestinians and stop them having their own state as the international community recommends, they nullify their own sovereignty.

Of course it's always the Israeli's fault.
Even the fact that Palestinians have a "Jewish problem"...do You hear Yourself?

Meanwhile Palestinians have no unified representation, they're divided between tribes and hamula's (clusters of families), with the division being very apparent locally,culturally and politically.
If they don't get along soon there won't be any 2 state solution, but city states- Emirates. And Israel has nothing to do with it- it's their choice.

Please the problem the Israelis have is with the Palestinian people, their nearest neighbors. It is a problem and an intractable one at that. It concerns the international community too.

I am unfamiliar with the dynamics of Palestinian society as you describe it. Your description might be very accurate and I am bound to agree that a Palestinian demand for state recognition when they cannot agree among themselves about their government with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Their government of unity was short lived. Nevertheless, the PLO is their recognized representative body. Honestly, if they do have their own state and they do mess up then they will have only themselves to blame.

Really, all these years, Israel could and should have been more accommodating and supportive. When a state of Palestine has the support of Israel, it will be hard to overcome the bitterness built up over the decades.

 

[Hossfly]

No, all of them, without exception, or immigrant from other lands. They are not natives to the land of Israel.

You can call it whatever you want. I don't care. The non-Israelis will be forced out. One or another, they will leave the land. They will either leave on their own, they will leave by force, or they will die.

That's the only options that they themselves have created for themselves.

They could have been Israeli citizens by now. They choose against that. So they get what they get.

How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.

A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

From 1:46...


There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.

How should we settle this dillema?

No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.

The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.

Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.

Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.

On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?

You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.

The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?

 

[Eloy]

How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.

A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.

How should we settle this dillema?

One way to solve the Jewish problem with Palestinians is not to heed the ignorant codswallop of a Palestinian Mufti but between men and women of reason and compassion to recognize the rights of the Palestinian people now under Israeli blockade and occupation to have their own state and live in peace as well as their claims on the land of their birth and that of their fathers.

Don't You see something missing here?

I've started with the notion that ALL Palestinian demands are met.
And asked what would happen next.
All I've been reading since are only demands towards Israeli side.

One thing at a time. Predicting the future is harder than understanding the present.

So tell me when is the time Your arguments become based on concrete facts?

I know your question is rhetorical but still unfair. Facts underpin my every post, in this thread that the two-state solution is a wish of the world and I believe it is also the official position of Israel as well as the Palestinians. Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Eloy]

Why is the family of a Muslim immigrant from Egypt in the 1930s "Palestinian" and the family of a Jewish immigrant from Russia in the 1930s "foreign settler invaders"?

I believe the immigration to Palestine of Russian Jews in the 1930s would have been extremely exceptional whereas indigenous Arab Muslims were the typical population.

You didn't answer the question. Why are some immigrant families considered "Palestinian" and some are not? What criteria must an immigrant meet to be considered "Palestinian"?

By Palestinian is surely meant anyone born in Palestine before and during the British Mandate and their progeny. After the establishment of Israel, some Palestinians were still there and many others became refugees in Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. But you know all this.

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

OK, what does everyone have to say now that the dust has settled on the Paris Summit?

V/R
R

 

[ForeverYoung436]

How can someone say of Palestinians that the land where they were born and whose forefathers were born are classed as immigrants when, at the same time, Russian Jews born in Birobidzhan of Russian parents have more of a right to live in that same place now called Israel, it must be asked. It takes some nerve to utter such brazen racism in contradiction to manifest facts. As long as there are Zionists who perpetrate the mythical right of return for Russian Jews to the Holy Land while denying the right of return to native Palestinian refugees to the land of their birth and that of there forefathers, there will be a brand of Israeli injustice poisoning the Holy Land.

A peasant who's kids were born on a land belonging to a Shekih in Lebanon or a Turk does not become automatically the owner.
The Palestinian Mufti himself recognized the sales of the lands and the Hamas leadership itself recognizes that Palestinians are from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

From 1:46...


There were thousands of Palestinian Jews before Zionism who were expelled from Hebron, Gaza, Nablus and Acre numerous times.

How should we settle this dillema?

No there were not, that's just a bunch of Zionist propaganda. There were no Jews at all in Palestine until the Muslim conquest in 638 AD, and the Jews that accompanied the Muslims as invaders were not from Palestine. The Jews from Spain that came after 1492 were also not from Palestine. And of course, the European Zionists were not from Palestine and were Europeans (genetically) that practiced Judaism with little to no ancestral ties to the area.

The Palestinians (who were practiced Christianity and Islam by the time the European Zionists initiated their invasion) are the only indigenous people of the area having remained there throughout the past 3,000 years under a succession of ruling regimes, converting to the religion of the rulers, as required or convenient.

Let's stick to the facts rather than to Zionist fantasies.

Montelatici we already saw how You make up Your "facts".
And how they hold no water in light of real documents.

On the one hand You say Palestinians are the only descendents of Jews, then You Jews weren't at all in Palestine.
Make up Your mind, decide once where do You want to delete Jews from history and stick with it at least a day ok?

You have a problem with reading comprehension. Changing religion does not change ancestry. No one wants to delete Jews from history. European Jews are European Jews, just as European Christians are Christians. Neither European Jews nor European Christians (both religions that have origins in or have a tie to Palestine) have the right to evict and replace the native people of a territory because they happen to practice a particular religion.

The Jews have been there since Moses. When did the Palestinians and Arabs get there?

Before the Israelites reached the Promised Land, they wandered for 40 years in the Sinai desert. Right before they crossed into it, they complained about the lack of water. G-d told Moses to speak to a certain rock and water would come forth from it. However, instead of speaking to the rock, Moses struck it. The water came out, but G-d was angry that Moses disobeyed Him. So Moses never made it into the Promised Land. He died in what is now known as Jordan. It was Joshua who brought them into the Land, so your post was somewhat inaccurate. The Jews have been in Israel since Joshua.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

et al,

OK, what does everyone have to say now that the dust has settled on the Paris Summit?

V/R
R

Well, since the main parties to the conflict weren't even there, not much was accomplished.