Can one of you libs please explain something to me...

[Kiki Cannoli]

Collectively, yes 'the rich' pay more; the concern lies with individual contribution as compared to the 'non rich'.

The perception is that the 'working class' (i am assuming you and I are each members) contribute more on an individual basis yet reap less benefits and do more of the dirty work.

Yea, I would love to have more tax breaks but if I get more breaks then someone else has to pick up the difference. Yet the bottom half pay nothing so I have to pick up their slack.

How is it "fair" to punish me with higher taxes because someone making less than me pays less or none at all? Is it my fault they didn't strive to be all they could?

Nothing is fair Grampa Murked U, nothing. Additionally, I am not on the 'rich don't pay' boat; however I do empathize with the perception. Basically, I am on the fence.

For clarity's sake, define rich & define bottom half.

Income level for rich is?

Income level for bottom half is?

Tax rate for rich is?

Tax rate for bottom half is?

...intersting that there is no middle class mentioned...

ETA: which group is more pro flat tax? I don't know I am asking the question.

 

[Mr Natural]

You guys are always saying the rich need to pay their fair share when it comes to taxes. Why?

Despite having multiple loopholes and tax shelters they are the ones paying the lions share of our nations bills while nearly half pay nothing. It seems to me that this argument has to sound silly to most people since so many pay nothing at all. And I'm not referring to state, local or sales tax.

So who isn't paying their share? I say the bottom half.

The bottom half is barely scraping by as it is and you want them to pay more?

What kind of petty bullshit is that?

 

[bripat9643]

The number of rich going off to war is near zero. They don't defend their own money. When you put money into a bank, you pay for them to keep that money safe. The rich have no right to just squeeze money from this country.

Wrong, dipstick. Banks hire private security to protect your money. The rich don't "squeeze" anything from anyone. If you don't like the products Apple and Exxon are selling, no one is forcing you to buy them.

Bank customers don't set the rate they pay, why should the rich?

The market and the federal reserve sets the rate the banks pay, not the rich.

Your ignorance of economics knows no natural bounds.

Don't bother trying to argue because this is just common sense and for not being able to figure this out only proves you are about as smart as a walnut.

The irony of that statement is just precious.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You guys are always saying the rich need to pay their fair share when it comes to taxes. Why?

Despite having multiple loopholes and tax shelters they are the ones paying the lions share of our nations bills while nearly half pay nothing. It seems to me that this argument has to sound silly to most people since so many pay nothing at all. And I'm not referring to state, local or sales tax.

So who isn't paying their share? I say the bottom half.

The bottom half is barely scraping by as it is and you want them to pay more?

What kind of petty bullshit is that?

I'm not referring to now in this economy. I wouldn't raise taxes on anyone in this economy. But when things level out I do believe everyone should play a part in paying the bills of our nation.

 

[DontBeStupid]

You guys are always saying the rich need to pay their fair share when it comes to taxes. Why?

Despite having multiple loopholes and tax shelters they are the ones paying the lions share of our nations bills while nearly half pay nothing. It seems to me that this argument has to sound silly to most people since so many pay nothing at all. And I'm not referring to state, local or sales tax.

So who isn't paying their share? I say the bottom half.

You have been corrected on this multiple times. I wonder why you are still spouting this old crap.

The wealthiest incomes pay a larger share of income taxes because they make a larger share of total income. Even if you taxed everyone a "fair" 20%, the wealthiest would still pay a larger share of total taxes because they would still make a larger share of total income. So claiming that there is something wrong based SOLELY on the fact that the wealthy pay a larger share of total taxes is completely and totally misleading.

As for the bottom 50% that pay no income taxes, again, as has been pointed out, they pay payroll taxes, and they pay them at a higher percentage of their income than the wealthy do, by the way. This group at the bottom tends to make about $20K a year and tends to be seniors and single moms. Yes, lets stick to them!

The answer to this issue is the same now as it always has been. If you want the lower incomes to pay more in taxes, then pay them more. Easy fix.

 

[yidnar]

someone who pays 17% taxes on a million dollars pays more in taxes than someone who pays taxes on 30 thousand dollars ...............

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Collectively, yes 'the rich' pay more; the concern lies with individual contribution as compared to the 'non rich'.

The perception is that the 'working class' (i am assuming you and I are each members) contribute more on an individual basis yet reap less benefits and do more of the dirty work.

Yea, I would love to have more tax breaks but if I get more breaks then someone else has to pick up the difference. Yet the bottom half pay nothing so I have to pick up their slack.

How is it "fair" to punish me with higher taxes because someone making less than me pays less or none at all? Is it my fault they didn't strive to be all they could?

Nothing is fair Grampa Murked U, nothing. Additionally, I am not on the 'rich don't pay' boat; however I do empathize with the perception. Basically, I am on the fence.

For clarity's sake, define rich & define bottom half.

Income level for rich is?

Income level for bottom half is?

Tax rate for rich is?

Tax rate for bottom half is?

...intersting that there is no middle class mentioned...

ETA: which group is more pro flat tax? I don't know I am asking the question.

I don't believe in classifying income earners into classes. I just used the term because that's what everyone else does. I do however believe there should be exceptions for the truly poor.

I believe we should either have a flat tax across the board, maybe 10 to 12%, with exemptions for the below poverty level earners. Or a consumption tax that is exempt from food and basic utilities.
I don't claim to know the right way to enact fair taxes. But our current system is severely flawed and only serves to divide us as a people.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

How is it "fair" to punish me with higher taxes because someone making less than me pays less or none at all? Is it my fault they didn't strive to be all they could?

I must add that not everybody strives to earn income as a success factor. I have made significantly more money by 40 years of age than almost everybody I know. Within this group are highly educated persons who chose academics, teaching, mission work, civil protection and child services as vocations - they do not make money nor pay taxes as I do. Yet I have never thought one of them slackers or persons who lacked desire to succeed.

There are different forms of success IMHO.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You guys are always saying the rich need to pay their fair share when it comes to taxes. Why?

Despite having multiple loopholes and tax shelters they are the ones paying the lions share of our nations bills while nearly half pay nothing. It seems to me that this argument has to sound silly to most people since so many pay nothing at all. And I'm not referring to state, local or sales tax.

So who isn't paying their share? I say the bottom half.

You have been corrected on this multiple times. I wonder why you are still spouting this old crap.

The wealthiest incomes pay a larger share of income taxes because they make a larger share of total income. Even if you taxed everyone a "fair" 20%, the wealthiest would still pay a larger share of total taxes because they would still make a larger share of total income. So claiming that there is something wrong based SOLELY on the fact that the wealthy pay a larger share of total taxes is completely and totally misleading.

As for the bottom 50% that pay no income taxes, again, as has been pointed out, they pay payroll taxes, and they pay them at a higher percentage of their income than the wealthy do, by the way. This group at the bottom tends to make about $20K a year and tends to be seniors and single moms. Yes, lets stick to them!

The answer to this issue is the same now as it always has been. If you want the lower incomes to pay more in taxes, then pay them more. Easy fix.

Troll harder fool.

 

[DontBeStupid]

How is it "fair" to punish me with higher taxes because someone making less than me pays less or none at all? Is it my fault they didn't strive to be all they could?

If you stop trying to make this personal you would see your answer.

The top 20% of earners in this country own some 90% of ALL wealth. ALL wealth. That means they own the companies that the other 80% work for. This means, the top earners can choose to pay you less as a way of increasing their own income and wealth.

In other words, it wouldn't be your fault if they didn't strive to be all the could, but it would be your fault if they strive and you still paid them a shit wage.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

How is it "fair" to punish me with higher taxes because someone making less than me pays less or none at all? Is it my fault they didn't strive to be all they could?

I must add that not everybody strives to earn income as a success factor. I have made significantly more money by 40 years of age than almost everybody I know. Within this group are highly educated persons who chose academics, teaching, mission work, civil protection and child services as vocations - they do not make money nor pay taxes as I do. Yet I have never thought one of them slackers or persons who lacked desire to succeed.

There are different forms of success IMHO.

Agreed, but their are those who don't strive for more when they are completely capable. I've had many of them come and go working for me. There are exceptions to everything. I realize its not all black and white, but we have a tax code now that tries to play on the exemptions and it just makes things worse imo.

 

[bripat9643]

You guys are always saying the rich need to pay their fair share when it comes to taxes. Why?

We don't tax "the rich," we tax income. Why do you bleeding hearts always want to personalize everything? You want to imagine there's some war on some elite class of people, instead of realizing all that's happening here is a calculation of what marginal rate is needed for each income bracket to pay the nation's bills. Unless you don't care about paying those bills, in which case who gives a shit?

Left-wingers are using it as an excuse so the government can spend more. We don't need anyone to pay more. We need government to spend less.

 

[Moonglow]

poor people do pay taxes.

 

[Moonglow]

How is it "fair" to punish me with higher taxes because someone making less than me pays less or none at all? Is it my fault they didn't strive to be all they could?

I must add that not everybody strives to earn income as a success factor. I have made significantly more money by 40 years of age than almost everybody I know. Within this group are highly educated persons who chose academics, teaching, mission work, civil protection and child services as vocations - they do not make money nor pay taxes as I do. Yet I have never thought one of them slackers or persons who lacked desire to succeed.

There are different forms of success IMHO.

Agreed, but their are those who don't strive for more when they are completely capable. I've had many of them come and go working for me. There are exceptions to everything. I realize its not all black and white, but we have a tax code now that tries to play on the exemptions and it just makes things worse imo.

So u have never used itemized tax deductions? Or standard deductions? Business deductions?

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Honestly, the child exemption aspect irks the hell out of me. We have no children, thus we utilize less resources; why should we pay more?

Because those children have a right to road systems, school systems, healthcare and parks just like I do and as a USA contributor I'll happily pay to provide those basic elements to them even if their parents cannot.

Ok, off my soapbox....

 

[Truthseeker420]

You guys are always saying the rich need to pay their fair share when it comes to taxes. Why?

Despite having multiple loopholes and tax shelters they are the ones paying the lions share of our nations bills while nearly half pay nothing. It seems to me that this argument has to sound silly to most people since so many pay nothing at all. And I'm not referring to state, local or sales tax.

So who isn't paying their share? I say the bottom half.

You are under the false assumption they("the rich") pay the lions share of the taxes.The truly rich hold nost of the wealth and most our tax dollars go to protecting their weath.

Do not the top 3% pay as much if not more than the other 97%?

Maybe if you just are talking about income tax and factoring in unearned income and other factors.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Troll harder fool.

And there we go. A coward's response.

You don't care about this issue. Clearly you don't. All you care about is being able to attack liberals for being "evil" and wanting to "punish" the rich.

Your partisanship is blinding.

 

[Moonglow]

Honestly, the child exemption aspect irks the hell out of me. We have no children, thus we utilize less resources; why should we pay more?

Because those children have a right to road systems, school systems, healthcare and parks just like I do and as a USA contributor I'll happily pay to provide those basic elements to them even if their parents cannot.

Ok, off my soapbox....

It is used as an incentive for having more children, thus more tax payers.

 

[bripat9643]

If you stop trying to make this personal you would see your answer.

The top 20% of earners in this country own some 90% of ALL wealth. ALL wealth. That means they own the companies that the other 80% work for. This means, the top earners can choose to pay you less as a way of increasing their own income and wealth.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Another lib economic idiocy.

I should start collecting these.

In other words, it wouldn't be your fault if they didn't strive to be all the could, but it would be your fault if they strive and you still paid them a shit wage.

It wold still be your fault. The idea that companies can pay you whatever wage the prefer is pure ignorance. Corporations have to compete for employees. They have to pay the market wage.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

How is it "fair" to punish me with higher taxes because someone making less than me pays less or none at all? Is it my fault they didn't strive to be all they could?

If you stop trying to make this personal you would see your answer.

The top 20% of earners in this country own some 90% of ALL wealth. ALL wealth. That means they own the companies that the other 80% work for. This means, the top earners can choose to pay you less as a way of increasing their own income and wealth.

In other words, it wouldn't be your fault if they didn't strive to be all the could, but it would be your fault if they strive and you still paid them a shit wage.

Your an idiot.

I don't work for the top 20% I own my business and I pay my help well. In fact my marriage fell apart 2 years ago when the economy collapsed and work got scarce. Instead of laying off my help I cut back in my personal life. Sold vehicles we didn't need for the company and personal ones and bought more economical ones. Cut back on non essentials. All so I could afford to keep my help through the slow times. Yet my help pays very little and I get hammered. Don't give me shared sacrifice bullshit. I did my part