Can Any Dem/lib Tell Us What Agency The Govt Has Run Efficiently?

[rightwinger]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

Oh, nolo contendere...

However, even within the sampling domain of The Best that you cite here, there is great waste, and great fault, and great laziness, and great greed, and great inefficiency.

You can argue that one until you're blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere.

Show me a more efficient and effective government and we can start

Go at it

 

[Redfish]

Most of them.

Most government agencies couldn't find their backsides with both hands in a well-lit room surrounded by mirrors.

Oftentimes staffed by dull, unimaginative, self-seeking bureaucratic and calendar-watching pension-sniffers, bellying-up to the trough for their unfair share of budget dollars, territorial, secretive, self-promoting, self-preserving, overlapping and wasteful, many of those same departments need a thorough housecleaning, mission and charter review, new performance indicators and outcomes evaluation, new and more visible and transparent public accountability, and, in some cases, closure, consolidation or downsizing.

Uh-huh.

Unlike the Private Sector, which are run by the cream of the crop.

frankly, I've seen more incompetence in the private sector than I've ever seen in the government.

My experience has been pretty much the reverse.

As have the experiences of a great many others, else the stereotyping of government agencies would never have gained such traction.

Private companies have a bottom-line indicator of success... their bottom line.

Government agencies can operate inefficiently (sometimes, grotesquely inefficiently) for decades on end, without fear of closure, because of a guaranteed revenue stream.

And a highly politicized and pro forma Performance Review process.

You know as well as I do that these fundamental differences between the public and private sectors contribute-to and sustain the inefficiency of a great many government agencies.

This is not to say that there are not legions of dedicated public servants within that sector who are largely devoted to their country and service to their countrymen.

But to ignore the grotesque inefficiencies and problematic operations of so many of these agencies is to ignore the 10-ton elephant in the room.

And there in lies the difference between conservative and liberal thought.

For conservatives, wealth is the one and only goal. With wealth, for a conservative, comes power and the ability to exert one's will over others.

For liberals, it is the advancement of civilization, as a whole that is the goal. If a civilization is effective in providing safety, scholarship and is sustainable for the future, that's success.

It's a vastly different mindset.

Newsflash, mine good colleague...

We are closer to being on the same page here than you appear to perceive...

My reference to private corporations and gauges for success is not an indicator that I (or anyone else) citing that gauge is not also in favor of the advancement of civilization.

It is merely an articulation of the hard-and-fast indicators available in the private sector, versus the need for better barometers and mission and charter and goals and outcomes measurement in the public sector.

Nowhere in my own meanderings here on the subject will you find a mindless advocacy that the private sector can do everything better than the public one.

I throw rocks at the public sector here as my own microscopic contribution to public airings of opining that we have much work yet to do on the public side of the fence.

Well heck.

I am a big advocate of finding out where a plan goes wrong..and fixing it.

Yes men are just as injurious to a process as people who want to tear it down.

Grats.

how would you fix our national debt of 17 trillion dollars?

 

[rightwinger]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

 

[Redfish]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

Oh, nolo contendere...

However, even within the sampling domain of The Best that you cite here, there is great waste, and great fault, and great laziness, and great greed, and great inefficiency.

You can argue that one until you're blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere.

Show me a more efficient and effective government and we can start

Go at it

because everyone else is worse justifies mismanagement or our finances?????????????? only in the mind of a liberal.

 

[Redfish]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

 

[rightwinger]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

Oh, nolo contendere...

However, even within the sampling domain of The Best that you cite here, there is great waste, and great fault, and great laziness, and great greed, and great inefficiency.

You can argue that one until you're blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere.

Show me a more efficient and effective government and we can start

Go at it

because everyone else is worse justifies mismanagement or our finances?????????????? only in the mind of a liberal.

Just putting things in perspective

The fact that you can't name a preferable govt speaks volumes

 

[haissem123]

You guys keep ranting about turning all of medicine over to the government. What has the government ever run efficiently? the post office? DOD? Social security? medicare? welfare? border security? the budget?

Why would you want to turn more of our economy over to them?

what corporation run efficiently? what private company does? look at all your private jails, insurance, banks etc...? they major fees or costs goes to the few on top of that dung heap. at least in the government we are supposed to be able to look where the money goes. post office was over burden by pension rules ups and all others that lobbied to have them put in aren't burden with idots. look at the jails raping us in all ways. please save us the government is the bad guy bull. it's the greed we all represent that's killing us.

 

[rightwinger]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

 

[Redfish]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

Oh, nolo contendere...

However, even within the sampling domain of The Best that you cite here, there is great waste, and great fault, and great laziness, and great greed, and great inefficiency.

You can argue that one until you're blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere.

Show me a more efficient and effective government and we can start

Go at it

because everyone else is worse justifies mismanagement or our finances?????????????? only in the mind of a liberal.

Just putting things in perspective

The fact that you can't name a preferable govt speaks volumes

this is not about our govt vs some other govt. it is about our govt wasting our hard earned tax money and the fact that you libs want to turn more over to them to waste.

 

[Redfish]

You guys keep ranting about turning all of medicine over to the government. What has the government ever run efficiently? the post office? DOD? Social security? medicare? welfare? border security? the budget?

Why would you want to turn more of our economy over to them?

what corporation run efficiently? what private company does? look at all your private jails, insurance, banks etc...? they major fees or costs goes to the few on top of that dung heap. at least in the government we are supposed to be able to look where the money goes. post office was over burden by pension rules ups and all others that lobbied to have them put in aren't burden with idots. look at the jails raping us in all ways. please save us the government is the bad guy bull. it's the greed we all represent that's killing us.

if a private company does not operate efficiently it goes out of business. jails were privitized to save money, are you claiming that was a bad govt decision?

 

[rightwinger]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

Oh, nolo contendere...

However, even within the sampling domain of The Best that you cite here, there is great waste, and great fault, and great laziness, and great greed, and great inefficiency.

You can argue that one until you're blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere.

Show me a more efficient and effective government and we can start

Go at it

because everyone else is worse justifies mismanagement or our finances?????????????? only in the mind of a liberal.

Just putting things in perspective

The fact that you can't name a preferable govt speaks volumes

this is not about our govt vs some other govt. it is about our govt wasting our hard earned tax money and the fact that you libs want to turn more over to them to waste.

You are demanding an absolute without a comparable model of success from another nation

We do damned well

 

[haissem123]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

I know, we want to turn our defense over to Black water, our econimic in black pools, and nasa to private space raiders. good luck with all that. gonna be good for the people.

 

[Redfish]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

OMG, $200 dollar hammers. bridges to nowhere. weapons systems that the military does not want or need, NASA being used for muslim outreach.

what planet are you on?

 

[Redfish]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

Oh, nolo contendere...

However, even within the sampling domain of The Best that you cite here, there is great waste, and great fault, and great laziness, and great greed, and great inefficiency.

You can argue that one until you're blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere.

Show me a more efficient and effective government and we can start

Go at it

because everyone else is worse justifies mismanagement or our finances?????????????? only in the mind of a liberal.

Just putting things in perspective

The fact that you can't name a preferable govt speaks volumes

this is not about our govt vs some other govt. it is about our govt wasting our hard earned tax money and the fact that you libs want to turn more over to them to waste.

You are demanding an absolute without a comparable model of success from another nation

We do damned well

I am not denying that------------do you deny that we could to better? Do you really think that the govt could manage medical care for 330,000,000 people efficiently?

 

[haissem123]

You guys keep ranting about turning all of medicine over to the government. What has the government ever run efficiently? the post office? DOD? Social security? medicare? welfare? border security? the budget?

Why would you want to turn more of our economy over to them?

what corporation run efficiently? what private company does? look at all your private jails, insurance, banks etc...? they major fees or costs goes to the few on top of that dung heap. at least in the government we are supposed to be able to look where the money goes. post office was over burden by pension rules ups and all others that lobbied to have them put in aren't burden with idots. look at the jails raping us in all ways. please save us the government is the bad guy bull. it's the greed we all represent that's killing us.

if a private company does not operate efficiently it goes out of business. jails were privitized to save money, are you claiming that was a bad govt decision?

most certainly was. now we have debtor prisons and swat teams taking people down to jail. then they owe the jail more then the original debt. you idiot. the amount of money we pay hasn't gone done. it only goes to fewer and fewer people. corporations don't go out of money that get government no bid contracts. look around you. do you see all the highest bid being taken "because they are more reputable or reliable companies" etc... ? it's a scam. the whole damned system is one big scam.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

how would you fix our national debt of 17 trillion dollars?


And this is the problem common to you and most others on the right: your blind adherence to conservative dogma, talking points, and partisan myths, such as 'the debt,' as opposed to seeking out the facts and truth of the issue:


“It’s true that right now we have a large federal budget deficit. But that deficit is mainly the result of a depressed economy — and you’re actually supposed to run deficits in a depressed economy to help support overall demand. The deficit will come down as the economy recovers: Revenue will rise while some categories of spending, such as unemployment benefits, will fall[...]


The deficit scolds dominating policy debate will, of course, fiercely resist any attempt to downgrade their favorite issue. They love living in an atmosphere of fiscal crisis: It lets them stroke their chins and sound serious, and it also provides an excuse for slashing social programs, which often seems to be their real objective."


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/18/opinion/krugman-the-dwindling-deficit.html

 

[Redfish]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

I know, we want to turn our defense over to Black water, our econimic in black pools, and nasa to private space raiders. good luck with all that. gonna be good for the people.

No one wants to do that. Why not just demand that every govt agency stay within its budget? Oh, I forgot, we have not had a budget since chairman maobama has been in power.

 

[Redfish]

You guys keep ranting about turning all of medicine over to the government. What has the government ever run efficiently? the post office? DOD? Social security? medicare? welfare? border security? the budget?

Why would you want to turn more of our economy over to them?

what corporation run efficiently? what private company does? look at all your private jails, insurance, banks etc...? they major fees or costs goes to the few on top of that dung heap. at least in the government we are supposed to be able to look where the money goes. post office was over burden by pension rules ups and all others that lobbied to have them put in aren't burden with idots. look at the jails raping us in all ways. please save us the government is the bad guy bull. it's the greed we all represent that's killing us.

if a private company does not operate efficiently it goes out of business. jails were privitized to save money, are you claiming that was a bad govt decision?

most certainly was. now we have debtor prisons and swat teams taking people down to jail. then they owe the jail more then the original debt. you idiot. the amount of money we pay hasn't gone done. it only goes to fewer and fewer people. corporations don't go out of money that get government no bid contracts. look around you. do you see all the highest bid being taken "because they are more reputable or reliable companies" etc... ? it's a scam. the whole damned system is one big scam.

so what you are really saying is that the govt has not managed its subcontracted prison work. no surprise there. idiot.

 

[Redfish]

how would you fix our national debt of 17 trillion dollars?


And this is the problem common to you and most others on the right: your blind adherence to conservative dogma, talking points, and partisan myths, such as 'the debt,' as opposed to seeking out the facts and truth of the issue:


“It’s true that right now we have a large federal budget deficit. But that deficit is mainly the result of a depressed economy — and you’re actually supposed to run deficits in a depressed economy to help support overall demand. The deficit will come down as the economy recovers: Revenue will rise while some categories of spending, such as unemployment benefits, will fall[...]


The deficit scolds dominating policy debate will, of course, fiercely resist any attempt to downgrade their favorite issue. They love living in an atmosphere of fiscal crisis: It lets them stroke their chins and sound serious, and it also provides an excuse for slashing social programs, which often seems to be their real objective."


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/18/opinion/krugman-the-dwindling-deficit.html

please look up the words "debt" and "deficit" they are not the same thing. After you learn what the words mean you can come back and talk.

BTW, posting something from Krugman only makes you look like a complete fool.

 

[rightwinger]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

OMG, $200 dollar hammers. bridges to nowhere. weapons systems that the military does not want or need, NASA being used for muslim outreach.

what planet are you on?

We do not have. $200 hammers, bridges to nowhere do not come from NASA or DOD, they come from politicians in red states demanding pork

Weapons systems are the most complex on earth. If we can keep politics out of the process we could be more efficient