Bush and Officials Lied leading up to Iraq war

[maineman]

It clearly states AQ collaberated with Saddam...

no...it does not.

 

[jreeves]

no...it does not.

Straight from the article, can you read that for me?
But it does say Saddam collaborated with known Al Qaeda affiliates

 

[maineman]

Straight from the article, can you read that for me?
But it does say Saddam collaborated with known Al Qaeda affiliates

and it names organizations that were arab nationalists. can you comprehend?

 

[jreeves]

and it names organizations that were arab nationalists. can you comprehend?

Funny, ignorance and partsianship at its best. You should be proud, it states AQ affliates and you say it is talking about arab nationalists.

 

[maineman]

Funny, ignorance and partsianship at its best. You should be proud, it states AQ affliates and you say it is talking about arab nationalists.

name one of these supposed "AQ Affiliates" (whatever the fuck that really means) that is not an nationalist organization with nationalist goals.

I'll wait.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Remind me how Bush lied because he was certain WMD's existed and your not a liar by claiming you were certain they did NOT exist BEFORE we invaded?

You havent yet figured out that when YOU post something, you're claiming a "fact" that must be proven, but when HE posts something, its his OPINION and so he doesnt need to prove squat?

 

[maineman]

You havent yet figured out that when YOU post something, you're claiming a "fact" that must be proven, but when HE posts something, its his OPINION and so he doesnt need to prove squat?

now if you could find one instance where I ever expressed certainty about Saddam NOT have any WMD's, that would be real nice. But of course, we know you can do no such thing.

I have NEVER stated that it was a fact or even that it was my OPINION that there was certainty about such a thing.

RGS exhibits all the logical abilities of a snail, and you follow along licking his slime trail.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

now if you could find one instance where I ever expressed certainty about Saddam NOT have any WMD's, that would be real nice. But of course, we know you can do no such thing.

I have NEVER stated that it was a fact or even that it was my OPINION that there was certainty about such a thing.

RGS exhibits all the logical abilities of a snail, and you follow along licking his slime trail.

Sure thing just like your insistance that the NIE summary had any doubt in it at all.

 

[maineman]

now if you could find one instance where I ever expressed certainty about Saddam NOT have any WMD's, that would be real nice. But of course, we know you can do no such thing.

I have NEVER stated that it was a fact or even that it was my OPINION that there was certainty about such a thing.

RGS exhibits all the logical abilities of a snail, and you follow along licking his slime trail.

Sure thing just like your insistance that the NIE summary had any doubt in it at all.

fuck you. either find a quote from me where I said that I had NO DOUBT that Saddam did NOT have WMD's before the invasion or retract your fucking lie.

pussy.

And your insistence that the NIE did NOT contain any doubt when all you ever saw was the unclassified summary of it is laughable. Analysts who contributed to it stated there was doubt... Generals who listened to classified briefings were left wondering where the certainty and proof was.... those are facts.

but go ahead....make wild ass statements that you can't back up and then, when called on them, refuse to retract them and just make other ones as a sort of smoke screen.

It is your common ploy. You are an embarrassment.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

fuck you. either find a quote from me where I said that I had NO DOUBT that Saddam did NOT have WMD's before the invasion or retract your fucking lie.

pussy.

And your insistence that the NIE did NOT contain any doubt when all you ever saw was the unclassified summary of it is laughable. Analysts who contributed to it stated there was doubt... Generals who listened to classified briefings were left wondering where the certainty and proof was.... those are facts.

but go ahead....make wild ass statements that you can't back up and then, when called on them, refuse to retract them and just make other ones as a sort of smoke screen.

It is your common ploy. You are an embarrassment.

You demand proof from me while uttering the ignorant claims you just did? Provide evidence that the SUMMARY was in effect not what the report said, since that IS what your claiming. Your claiming that a summary designed to tell someone at a glance the meat of the report was simply not true. And yet you can not provide a shred of evidence your claim is true, other then, " cause I say so".

People with legit arguments do not have to resort to the personal insults and name calling you routinely revert to when faced with facts you do not like and can not prove wrong.

 

[maineman]

You demand proof from me while uttering the ignorant claims you just did? Provide evidence that the SUMMARY was in effect not what the report said, since that IS what your claiming. Your claiming that a summary designed to tell someone at a glance the meat of the report was simply not true. And yet you can not provide a shred of evidence your claim is true, other then, " cause I say so".

People with legit arguments do not have to resort to the personal insults and name calling you routinely revert to when faced with facts you do not like and can not prove wrong.

As I have stated several times, numerous intelligence analysts have come forward in the aftermath of the invasion and have stated that caveats and qualifiers were present in the NIE.

And people with legit arguments do not lie about what other people said.

I have never stated that I was certain that WMD's did NOT exist BEFORE we invaded.

You're a liar. and you ALWAYS run away from your lies. pathetic.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

As I have stated several times, numerous intelligence analysts have come forward in the aftermath of the invasion and have stated that caveats and qualifiers were present in the NIE.

And people with legit arguments do not lie about what other people said.

I have never stated that I was certain that WMD's did NOT exist BEFORE we invaded.

You're a liar. and you ALWAYS run away from your lies. pathetic.

Your a broken record, you make shit up and then blame everyone else when caught at it. You can not provide one shred of evidence your claim is true so you claim 'others" said it and when pushed end up claiming it is just your opinion.

The Summary of the Oct 2002 NIE is plain, the only "caveat" was that there were no nuclear weapons. As to chemical and Biological it was clear, the intelligence agencies had NO doubt he had them, that he was still making them and that he had learned to make them last LONGER on the shelf. No maybe, no "we think" no statement other than IRAQ HAS WMDs. Which is what EVERYONE including the UN believed.

An honest argument would be that you did not believe he would use them against us and that he would not give them to terrorists to use against, but you keep claiming Bush lied, which simply is NOT TRUE. You keep claiming there was doubt Iraq had weapons, which simply is NOT true.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Summary of the Oct 2002 NIE is plain, the only "caveat" was that there were no nuclear weapons. As to chemical and Biological it was clear, the intelligence agencies had NO doubt he had them, that he was still making them and that he had learned to make them last LONGER on the shelf. No maybe, no "we think" no statement other than IRAQ HAS WMDs. Which is what EVERYONE including the UN believed

2002 NIE summary:

Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction
We judge that Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade. (See INR alternative view at the end of these Key Judgments.)

We judge that we are seeing only a portion of Iraq's WMD efforts, owing to Baghdad's vigorous denial and deception efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information. We lack specific information on many key aspects of Iraq's WMD programs.

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/iraq-wmd.html

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[maineman]

read up on the dissenting views from the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Review and DOE that were contained in the Oct 2002 NIE.

 

[maineman]

Remind me how Bush lied because he was certain WMD's existed and your not a liar by claiming you were certain they did NOT exist BEFORE we invaded?

again...this is YOUR post.... please show me where I have EVER made such a "claim".

I'll wait.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Remind me how Bush lied because he was certain WMD's existed and your not a liar by claiming you were certain they did NOT exist BEFORE we invaded?[/QUOTE]


again...this is YOUR post.... please show me where I have EVER made such a "claim".

I'll wait.

It is MY opinion that every time you claim Bush lied and point to AFTER the fact there were no weapons that is EXACTLY what you say. Do not like it? To damn bad. You have YOUR opinion and I have mine. Remind us again how YOU don't have to prove an opinion but others do, will ya? I will wait.

 

[jreeves]

name one of these supposed "AQ Affiliates" (whatever the fuck that really means) that is not an nationalist organization with nationalist goals.

I'll wait.

Excuse me one minute will I refer to the documents found, oh wait, I don't have them. I was said the article said Saddam collaberated with AQ, that is a fact.

 

[maineman]

It is MY opinion that every time you claim Bush lied and point to AFTER the fact there were no weapons that is EXACTLY what you say. Do not like it? To damn bad. You have YOUR opinion and I have mine. Remind us again how YOU don't have to prove an opinion but others do, will ya? I will wait.

you said I made a claim...provide a link to a post where I ever made such a claim.

 

[maineman]

Excuse me one minute will I refer to the documents found, oh wait, I don't have them. I was said the article said Saddam collaberated with AQ, that is a fact.

Saddam did NOT collaborate with AQ. THAT IS a fact.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you said I made a claim...provide a link to a post where I ever made such a claim.

I don't have to, it is my OPINION. You have stated , unless your now denying it, that Bush lied by stating no doubt about WMD's and you have used as your supposed proof the fact that AFTER the fact none were found. You have ignored every Democrat, ever foreign Government and every Intelligence report prior to the invasion, including the SANCTIONS of the UN, that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that just about every SANE person believed with no doubt that Iraq had WMD's. And when ask for proof you resort to " it's my opinion". Guess what? Since you do not have to prove an opinion, something you have been quick to point out when YOU get caught in an obvious lie, I do not have to prove my opinion.

Again JUST for you, in MY OPINION, every time you claim Bush lied using your none proof anfd your OPINION, I believe that means your stating there were was no doubt there were no wmd's in Iraq prior to the invasion. Since it was COMMON accepted knowledge he had them and since the NIE clearly states all Intell agencies of the US believed he had them ( with NO DOUBT) and you keep claiming otherwise, that is MY OPINION.

Or are you now going to say you have never called Bush a liar? Never said he "mislead" the American people, and that you believe so because you claim he said " no doubt" and meant it as a personal claim?