Bush administration violated the law...

Edward

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The following article appeared in the Washington Post, "Bush aides misused e-mail, House panel says." The article discusses the actions of Bush aides and their violation of the law in misusing political email accounts for government business.

This action is clearly a violation of the law and an attempt to circumvent the right of the people to obtain access to communications of this administration. These actions violated the law and were an attempt to prevent Congress and the American people from being able to access this information and this was an attempt by the Bush administration to avoid the requirements of the laws governing presidential records. The article states, "The committee said it learned that the White House used the RNC acounts to discuss official matters such as appointments and grant announcements." These discussions are considered public records and are the property of the United States government and not the property of the persons sending these emails. That some of these records have been lost and been deleted is inappropriate at minimum and criminal conspiracy at worst.

We should give the Bush administration the benefit of the doubt but it is becoming quite apparent that they have subverted the legal process, and the rights of the American people. The most shocking part of the article is the part that states, "As a result of these policies, potentially hundreds of thousands of White House emails have been destroyed, many which may be presidential records."

Senator Leahy (D-VT) is quoted as having said, "It is troubling that so many senior White HOuse officials, including Karl ROve and his former deputy Sara Taylor, were engaging in an effort to avoid oversight and accountability by ignoring the laws meant to ensure a public record of official government business." I am shocked at what has been allowed to happen and I am upset that George Bush and his friends in the White House have decided that they are above the law. Of course, those who voted for him also think they are above the law but forunately for America we have laws which are intended to protect us, and hopefully the Judiciary and Legislature will step forward and require the ISP's and others who may have access to the deleted emails of these RNC accounts to turn them over.

I am not a tech savvy person so I am not sure if this is possible but if there is any way that we can retrieve these emails which are the property of the United States government we should do so and if the Bush administration and others continue to violate the law in this manner than they should be held responsible under the law including if necessary impeachment of those responsible for these actions. I am beginning to feel sympathy for President Bush because I am not so sure that he knows that there have been illegal actions on the part of his administration. It is difficult for one man to know the law but the fact remains that the buck stops with the President and he must be held accountable and he must hold those who are part of the administration responsible for their actions.

To read the article go to http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/18/AR2007061800809.html?
 

Truthmatters

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Im sure they needed all their communications to be kept close to the vest so hat Al Queda couldnt find out what they were doing to fight the war on terror!

This information is too secret to allow the likes of the American people to see because like 70% dont support the Iraq war anymore so they are with the terroists.

"If you aint with us your against us"

The American people are the enemy now.
 

uscitizen

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or to put it in my view.
The neocons are the enemy of the USA and needed to hide their actions from the legal government.
 

Truthmatters

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Funny how some will justify anything to keep lying to the American people huh usc?
 

CockySOB

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Generally a good post, Edward. I disagree about the "clearly" part, but the problem is most certainly disconcerting and worthy of investigation and probably a judicial determination if the PRA was violated.

This is not just a problem with the numerous government employees who used the RNC e-mail server, but also goes back to the lost e-mails some time back. Government communications should be routed through a central server(s) so that the central server(s) can archive communication both incoming and outgoing. Aside from the obvious benefit for government transparency, this would also be a valuable backup in case of enterprise failures.

Another problem comes from our variety of communications gear which go through different provider networks before hitting the government servers. I'm speaking specifically of portable devices like laptops, handhelds and even modern multifunction phones like the Blackberry. These systems connect through any number of service providers depending on their geographic location at time of connection, or through different national providers depending on service platform. End-to-end security is not yet feasible for such devices (well, portable computers can establish fairly secure VPN's but that's beyond the scope of most handhelds and phones).

What kind of security policy can we consider for hte government when smaller entities haven't found a way to handle the logistics of this very problem on a much smaller scale?

Again, I think this is an issue which definitely needs addressed, and I think that how it is addressed will most definitely affect how transparent our government is, as well as how efficiently it can function.
 
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Edward

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Im sure they needed all their communications to be kept close to the vest so hat Al Queda couldnt find out what they were doing to fight the war on terror!

This information is too secret to allow the likes of the American people to see because like 70% dont support the Iraq war anymore so they are with the terroists.

"If you aint with us your against us"

The American people are the enemy now.
The problem with these people is that they think they and those who voted for them are better than us and our families including those whom we elect to represent us. They have a problem when our representatives actually try to represent our interests and to do something about them and their representatives violating our rights and the rights of our representatives. The Bush administration has attempted to keep the rest of us from knowing what is going on, and worst has attempted to PREVENT US FROM CONFIRMING U.S. ATTORNEYS BY MAKING UNCONSITUTIONAL INTERIM APPOINTMENTS AS A RESULT OF THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL U.S. PATRIOT SUPPORTED BY THE FACTION THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION REPRESENTS. These people don't even support the constitution they use to violate our rights and had we not fought to have some of our rights enumerated in the Constitution they would do as they planned to do then which is violate our rights and to keep us from making decisions about our own government. The only provisions of the Constitution they support are those that benefit their faction (i.e., this faction was led by Alexander Hamilton in the 1780's). When you realize that these are the same kind of people that prevented the Constitution from being voted on and accepted by the people instead preferring that members of their faction ratify it in special conventions where the people were not welcome we can see why they think that they do not need to have Congress confirm U.S. Attorneys.
 
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Edward

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or to put it in my view.
The neocons are the enemy of the USA and needed to hide their actions from the legal government.
It's not so much the legal government that they are trying to hide their actions from instead it is from those of us who they think they are better than that they are trying to hide their actions from including our representatives. When you look at the issue dis-passionately you can only conclude that the reason the Constitution was strongly supported by this faction at that time and why it was opposed by liberals and those who believed in self-government was because there was a difference in the opinion liberals held of the people and our rights and the opinion held by conservatives who felt the British form of government was the best the world had and that we should duplicate it which we did and which many of our forefathers warned was a mistake but the conservatives won in 1789 and yet we were able to successfully get a Bill of Rights which we should be grateful for since we weren't represented at the Constitutional Convention since those of us who were more liberal left that body which met in secret to commit treason against the people. It wasn't an open meeting where the people could hear what was discussed, and the people did not have a say in what went into the Constitution and ultimately the people DIDN'T EVEN GET TO VOTE ON IT because those who supported it decided that we should not have that right. Ironically, the only time the people voted on it in Rhode Island it was rejected and it was only after these cocksuckers decided to hold a convention of like minded fuckers that they were able to ratify it and to deprive us of our rights and to restore the system of government we had fought against.
 

Bullypulpit

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The Bush administration has, particularly since 9/11, attempted to take on the role of unitary executive and relegate the courts and Congress to little more than advisory functions. In other words, establish a dictatorship. Bush, Cheney, <i>et al</i> clearly see themselves as being above the law and even a law unto themselves, so it should come as no surprise to anyone that they have run afoul of the law, and have done so on numerous occasions.
 

actsnoblemartin

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im all for an investigation, but what are the chances, liberals will be just as tough on one of their own, not likely.

The Bush administration has, particularly since 9/11, attempted to take on the role of unitary executive and relegate the courts and Congress to little more than advisory functions. In other words, establish a dictatorship. Bush, Cheney, <i>et al</i> clearly see themselves as being above the law and even a law unto themselves, so it should come as no surprise to anyone that they have run afoul of the law, and have done so on numerous occasions.
 

actsnoblemartin

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my point is, that neither side is gonna say, wow, we have a lot to gain, if we investigate our own, knowing the our side is like a shark thats smells blood, ready to play political gotcha.

How tough were repubs on their own for the last six years... or the six years before that?

Oh yeah... they weren't.
 

jillian

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my point is, that neither side is gonna say, wow, we have a lot to gain, if we investigate our own, knowing the our side is like a shark thats smells blood, ready to play political gotcha.
Well right now it's your side that's committed acts that need investigation since they've been running things for six years.

So your point is kind of...... pointless. How 'bout addressing the issues raised instead of derailing it and making it another boring, mindless... "so's your mother...." kind of thread.

You can do that, can't you?
 

RetiredGySgt

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Pelosi, Feinstein, Jefferson, Ried, to name a few Democrats that have violated US law. But do tell us how the evil republicans are all to blame.
 

Gunny

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My opinion of something like this is it reeks of bumbling, administrative incompetence rather than any conspiracy. A conspiracy would require an intelligent plan.:lol:
 

actsnoblemartin

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what are you talking about?

Well right now it's your side that's committed acts that need investigation since they've been running things for six years.

So your point is kind of...... pointless. How 'bout addressing the issues raised instead of derailing it and making it another boring, mindless... "so's your mother...." kind of thread.

You can do that, can't you?
 

RetiredGySgt

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Usual leftoid tactic. Obfusicate, misdirect or out right lie. The point is you have not signed on to " its all the republicans fault" topic.
 
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Edward

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Pelosi, Feinstein, Jefferson, Ried, to name a few Democrats that have violated US law. But do tell us how the evil republicans are all to blame.
We aren't speaking simply of breaking the law instead we are speaking of the violation of our rights. I don't care whether Bush broke the law as much as I do that he and the administration and the people who voted for him violated my rights. There will always be people who break the law but none of them incur my wrath or anger as do those who voted for George Bush. It may be true that Pelosi, Feinstein, Jefferson and Reid have violated U.S. law but that isn't at issue. It isn't that George Bush, the individual, has broken the law but that the Bush administration has violated the Constitution, the law and more importantly our rights and he has even used the constitution to do so which is morally repugnant.

Let's take this issue as an example, "to this day the only people who have had a say in who the U.S. Attorneys for these districts are are those who Bush represents while the rest of us have been denied a say..." This is a concept you cannot seem to grasp or comprehend because you fail to understand that the law isn't the only issue here. If it were than people would not be as upset as they are. You don't hear people getting all fired up over people breaking the law. People don't follow every criminal and civil trial because these do not affect them. So go on and on about how Reid and others may have violated one law or another but that will not change the fact that I don't give a fuck because they aren't violating my rights instead it is you and the assholes who represent you who have denied others and those who represent them a say in who the fucking people who enforce the laws of this country are. This is the key issue here and not simply that the Bush administration outside of the law but that in violating the law he has also denied others and their representatives a say in a matter that the U.S. Constitution acknowledges that they have a say in and that the law of nature requires them to have a say in.

I do not intend for George Bush and those whom he represents to govern over me without me having a say. That is the issue here. I did not vote for him nor did I vote for those who did instead I voted for someone who has been denied a say in who will be the U.S. Attorney for a specific district and ironically many of the people who have been denied a say in the matter are the very people who represent those who these U.S. Attorneys preside over. Simply put, the Democratic Senators from the states in question have every right to be upset and to be angry that they cannot even have a say in who the U.S. Attorneys are for their states especially when the U.S. Constitution acknowledges this right.

So, simply put this issue is more about the violation of our rights than it is about whether a law was broken. If a law was broken and Bush is impeached than let him be prosecuted for violating that law or let Harry Reid or anyone else who has broken the law be prosecuted for it but we aren't talking about the breaking of the law alone instead we are talking about the gross conduct of the Bush administration and those who voted for him. This issue comes down to more than the fact that Bush is breaking the law by firing these U.S. Attorneys and replacing them with interim appointments instead it is about members of Congress going home to tell the people they represent: I DON'T HAVE A SAY IN WHO THE U.S. ATTORNEY IS FOR THIS STATE BECAUSE I CANNOT VOTE ON THEIR CONFIRMATION BECAUSE GEORGE BUSH HAS FOUND A WAY TO BYPASS THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT OF CONGRESS TO CONFIRM APPOINTMENTS OF THE PRESIDENT. SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL GET USED TO THE IDEA THAT YOU AND I HAVE NO SAY IN WHO THE U.S. ATTORNEY IS FOR THIS STATE. YOU KNOW AFTER ALL THAT GEORGE BUSH AND THOSE WHO VOTED FOR HIM KNOW WHAT IS BEST AND THEY DON'T THINK YOU OR I SHOULD HAVE A SAY. :eusa_boohoo:
 
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Edward

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Usual leftoid tactic. Obfusicate, misdirect or out right lie. The point is you have not signed on to " its all the republicans fault" topic.
I will tell you what your fault is and that is that you and those who represent you are denying me and those who represent me a voice in our government. To have a Senator from the states in question have to beg for permission to be able to have a say about who the U.S. Attorney is for their state is simply not acceptable. As for your comments about the left. How dare you violate our rights and then accuse us of obfusicating you fucking tryant. How dare you deny our Senators a right to vote to confirm these U.S. Attorneys and then accuse us of lying for standing up for our rights and demanding that the people's representatives have a say. How dare you who I have never met call mke a liar as your representative in the White House violates my rights. You and your family can go to hell.

You think this is about Bush breaking the law and it isn't. It is about you and those who represent you violating the rights of others. This is the core issue, and you can try to mis-direct all you want but it comes back to this central issue which you wish to avoid which is that you and those who represent you continue to violate our rights and we have had it and we are now demanding that you and your members of Congress and the President cease and desist at once in violating our rights. We are not going to put up with it or allow you and those who represent you to make decisions that we have no say in and it's as simple as that. These U.S. Attorney's still have not been confirmed by Congress even though the Constitution guarantees members of Congress the right to confirm all civil officers of the Government.

If you don't like those of us whose rights you are violating being upset and pointing out that it is your fault when you violate our rights and that this issue has to do with what Bush and those who he represent are doing and not just the law itself than you can fucking go to hell and take your family with you because those of us who love our rights and who cherish our right to self government and who will fight for it will not continue to put up with not having a say in our government. It was the elected Parliment of Britain who violated the rights of our forefathers and caused them to rebel and it was because of people like you who lived at that time that they were forced to do so and I for one pity the day when the people finally have to stand up for their rights against their own countrymen just like our forefathers did but that option will not be taken off the table if the people find themselves back into a corner where their rights are not respected and where their representatives and senators do not have a say in matters of vital importance that affect them and their loved ones. This concept is a concept you do not understand because you are nothing more than a fucking idiot like those who represent you.

Now why don't you take your comments about the left mis-directing and lying and shove it up your ass. How dare you call me a liar you fucking idiot. How dare you say this as the man who represents you in the White House denies those who represent me a right to confirm U.S. Attorney's. Now shut the fuck up you evil tryant and fucking go cast your vote like the fucking individual tryant that you are but do not expect me to read the shit you have to say and not stand up for my rights. If you want to make this about the left and the right go ahead asshole but this is about you being a dictator and the individual voters who agree with you being dictators. That is what this is about. Your actions as individuals would not be acceptable and tehrefore your collective actions are not acceptable. If one man were to say to us, "you cannot confirm U.S. Attorneys" it would be just as wrong for Bush and those he represent to say these things as individuals. So let's get back to the real issue: THESE U.S. ATTORNEYS HAVE NOT BEEN CONFIRMED AND THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT EVEN MADE ONE ATTEMPT TO NOMINATE THEM OR SOMEONE ELSE FOR THIS POSITION BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT THE PEOPLE'S REPRESENTATIVES TO HAVE A SAY IN WHO THE U.S. ATTORNEYS FOR THESE DISTRICTS ARE.
 

Stephanie

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I say investigate this, and if anything comes out of it....proceed..

But, nobody is going to tell me....this is JUST A REPUBLICAN THING..

Both sides right now, is so goshdamn shady, and crooked....
Just look at this behind the doors in secret immigration bill they hashed out, and they tried to get it passed without anyone knowing what was in the damn thing....
I'd like to kick a lot of their asses out, and start over..

:(
 

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