Burn the Koran on 9-11

[Woyzeck]

Hey Woyzeck you posted those links and post on this thread like you posted something real good. Time to defend what you posted.

I did. It might've got lost in the shuffle, this thread's gotten popular this afternoon.

Link number 7 lets start there.
KUALA  LUMPUR  DECLARATION ON INTERNATIONAL  TERRORISM

All right, fair enough. Your point above was asking if they rejected the teachings of Koran. You'd really have to ask individual Muslims and imams and what not, to get a response. I'm not a Muslim, so I dunno how precisely they reconcile some of the more violent language in the Koran, but I would think they do it in a similar manner to how Judaism or Christianity reconciles some of the more violent language in the Old and New Testaments.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Edited

Your term, not mine. Keep it civil please.

Yup, and I edited it and I apologize for it.

But I don't think you know what you are talking about. You made the claim that the Caliphate is being established. Show us an example.

Al Quada, Bin Laden, the Suni's the Shia's have publically stated this as the goal.... for years.

 

[ConHog]

I just don't know why people ignore the overwhelming evidence that suggests that Islam breeds hatred, intolerance, and terrorism. Ignoring that is just being dishonest.

Just look at the terror acts committed around the world , including in this country, who commits them? Muslims. How anyone could defend this religion based solely on their treatment of women is beyond me.

You want an honest debate? Admit that Islam is a religion of hate, and then we can debate whether that should be allowed in the US, otherwise you're just being an idiot who is denying the obvious.

RW , still waiting for you to explain why you believe Muslims can be insensitive but Christians shouldn't be.

 

[Political Junky]

RW, I'm still waiting for a reasonable explanation for your hypocrisy. I contend it's becasue you hate Christianity but are too big of a ***** to actually admit it.

*****

Asked and answered in post 150.....

*****? Getting a bit personal in your attacks aren't you? I guess you have been hanging out with NOLA for too long. His hatred is starting to rub off in your posts

What?

How does this?

I'm not going to just let you walk away from your hypocrisy RW, why are you not against the mosque?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Poetic isn't it?

answer the question of why you call Christians who want to burn Qurons insensitive idiots while at the same time not calling Muslims who want to build a Mosque that offends most Americans insensitive. That is hypocritical, and your response did not address it.

Fool

I fail to see any parallel between those two things.

 

[rightwinger]

RW, I'm still waiting for a reasonable explanation for your hypocrisy. I contend it's becasue you hate Christianity but are too big of a ***** to actually admit it.

*****

Asked and answered in post 150.....

*****? Getting a bit personal in your attacks aren't you? I guess you have been hanging out with NOLA for too long. His hatred is starting to rub off in your posts

What?

How does this?

I'm not going to just let you walk away from your hypocrisy RW, why are you not against the mosque?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Poetic isn't it?

answer the question of why you call Christians who want to burn Qurons insensitive idiots while at the same time not calling Muslims who want to build a Mosque that offends most Americans insensitive. That is hypocritical, and your response did not address it.

Fool

I did answer. It basically comes down to this....Our founding fathers understood religious persecution and it was the first thing they addressed in the bill of rights. Building a house of worship is not insensitive....opposing the right to worship where you please is un American

Now...who is the fool?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Seroiously, I may be wrong. I have no proof that I am correct. However, Islam thoughout its history has been at war with the rest of the world. Building Mosques at sites of Islamic significance is evidenced all over... look at Spain, France, Jeruselem, etc. I do not think that the Ground Zero Mosque is a mere coincidence. After all, if it is just one Mosque of many.. why the insistance on that site?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Woyzeck]

Seroiously, I may be wrong. I have no proof that I am correct. However, Islam thoughout its history has been at war with the rest of the world. Building Mosques at sites of Islamic significance is evidenced all over... look at Spain, France, etc. I do not think that the Ground Zero Mosque is a mere coincidence. After all, if it is just one Mosque of many.. why the insistance on that site?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Right, because whenever someone conquered somewhere, they never brought their religion along with them. Oh no, that never happened, it only happened with Islam.

 

[rightwinger]

I just don't know why people ignore the overwhelming evidence that suggests that Islam breeds hatred, intolerance, and terrorism. Ignoring that is just being dishonest.

Just look at the terror acts committed around the world , including in this country, who commits them? Muslims. How anyone could defend this religion based solely on their treatment of women is beyond me.

You want an honest debate? Admit that Islam is a religion of hate, and then we can debate whether that should be allowed in the US, otherwise you're just being an idiot who is denying the obvious.

RW , still waiting for you to explain why you believe Muslims can be insensitive but Christians shouldn't be.

Explain one thing for me

How is building a house of worship an act of hate?

That is the crux of your argument

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I did. It might've got lost in the shuffle, this thread's gotten popular this afternoon.

Link number 7 lets start there.
KUALA* LUMPUR* DECLARATION ON INTERNATIONAL* TERRORISM

All right, fair enough. Your point above was asking if they rejected the teachings of Koran. You'd really have to ask individual Muslims and imams and what not, to get a response. I'm not a Muslim, so I dunno how precisely they reconcile some of the more violent language in the Koran, but I would think they do it in a similar manner to how Judaism or Christianity reconciles some of the more violent language in the Old and New Testaments.

Do they rejectterrorist radical muslims?
From your link
3. We take note of the important inaugural statement by The Honourable Prime Minister of Malaysia, Dato’ Seri Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad, which constitutes an official document of this Extraordinary Session;

Do you know anyhting about the person that is mentioned in number three? the person they call Honorable?
Mahathir has always been an outspoken critic of the United States
Under Mahathir, Malaysia was a staunch supporter of the Palestinian cause
and just what is the Palestinian cause?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I just don't know why people ignore the overwhelming evidence that suggests that Islam breeds hatred, intolerance, and terrorism. Ignoring that is just being dishonest.

Just look at the terror acts committed around the world , including in this country, who commits them? Muslims. How anyone could defend this religion based solely on their treatment of women is beyond me.

You want an honest debate? Admit that Islam is a religion of hate, and then we can debate whether that should be allowed in the US, otherwise you're just being an idiot who is denying the obvious.

RW , still waiting for you to explain why you believe Muslims can be insensitive but Christians shouldn't be.

Explain one thing for me

How is building a house of worship an act of hate?

That is the crux of your argument

How is the building of a building honoring a religion that was used as the basis for the killing of 3,000 Americans on the very site of that killing not an act of hate?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Link number 7 lets start there.
KUALA* LUMPUR* DECLARATION ON INTERNATIONAL* TERRORISM

All right, fair enough. Your point above was asking if they rejected the teachings of Koran. You'd really have to ask individual Muslims and imams and what not, to get a response. I'm not a Muslim, so I dunno how precisely they reconcile some of the more violent language in the Koran, but I would think they do it in a similar manner to how Judaism or Christianity reconciles some of the more violent language in the Old and New Testaments.

Do they rejectterrorist radical muslims?
From your link
3. We take note of the important inaugural statement by The Honourable Prime Minister of Malaysia, Dato’ Seri Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad, which constitutes an official document of this Extraordinary Session;

Do you know anyhting about the person that is mentioned in number three? the person they call Honorable?
Mahathir has always been an outspoken critic of the United States
Under Mahathir, Malaysia was a staunch supporter of the Palestinian cause
and just what is the Palestinian cause?

The eradication ofd the Jewish state. By peaceful means.. of course.

 

[ConHog]

I just don't know why people ignore the overwhelming evidence that suggests that Islam breeds hatred, intolerance, and terrorism. Ignoring that is just being dishonest.

Just look at the terror acts committed around the world , including in this country, who commits them? Muslims. How anyone could defend this religion based solely on their treatment of women is beyond me.

You want an honest debate? Admit that Islam is a religion of hate, and then we can debate whether that should be allowed in the US, otherwise you're just being an idiot who is denying the obvious.

RW , still waiting for you to explain why you believe Muslims can be insensitive but Christians shouldn't be.

Explain one thing for me

How is building a house of worship an act of hate?

That is the crux of your argument

Just to prove one difference between you and I, namely that I have integrity where you have none, I will answer your question even though you have not answered mine from 8 pages ago.

It is an act of hate when you choose to do something that 70% of your fellow Americans say offends them. The opposite reaction would be to CHOOSE not do it. PERIOD. It's that simple no matter how much you want to try to complicate it.

Now that I have answered your question. I ask you again. WHy did you start a thread whining about Christians being insensitive when you don't mind Muslims being insensitive?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

So, calling somebody a redneck is your way of professing your tolerance?

See it as an attack? Islam stated it was an attack on the west by Islam.

Islam is not at war with Christianity anymore than Christianity is at war with Islam.

Radical Islam is at war with everyone who doesn't agree with them. They are barbarians. But they do not represent mainstream Islam any more than Fred Phelps or Pastor Hagee represent mainstream Christians.

The Quran says differently

9:29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do.

[ 2:193.. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc

 

[bigrebnc1775]

All right, fair enough. Your point above was asking if they rejected the teachings of Koran. You'd really have to ask individual Muslims and imams and what not, to get a response. I'm not a Muslim, so I dunno how precisely they reconcile some of the more violent language in the Koran, but I would think they do it in a similar manner to how Judaism or Christianity reconciles some of the more violent language in the Old and New Testaments.

Do they rejectterrorist radical muslims?
From your link
3. We take note of the important inaugural statement by The Honourable Prime Minister of Malaysia, Dato’ Seri Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad, which constitutes an official document of this Extraordinary Session;

Do you know anyhting about the person that is mentioned in number three? the person they call Honorable?
Mahathir has always been an outspoken critic of the United States
Under Mahathir, Malaysia was a staunch supporter of the Palestinian cause
and just what is the Palestinian cause?

The eradication ofd the Jewish state. By peaceful means.. of course.

Of course.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Well, gotta go do my yardwork.

As-Salamu Alaykum!

 

[rightwinger]

I just don't know why people ignore the overwhelming evidence that suggests that Islam breeds hatred, intolerance, and terrorism. Ignoring that is just being dishonest.

Just look at the terror acts committed around the world , including in this country, who commits them? Muslims. How anyone could defend this religion based solely on their treatment of women is beyond me.

You want an honest debate? Admit that Islam is a religion of hate, and then we can debate whether that should be allowed in the US, otherwise you're just being an idiot who is denying the obvious.

RW , still waiting for you to explain why you believe Muslims can be insensitive but Christians shouldn't be.

Explain one thing for me

How is building a house of worship an act of hate?

That is the crux of your argument

How is the building of a building honoring a religion that was used as the basis for the killing of 3,000 Americans on the very site of that killing not an act of hate?

NOLA....you have to put away your hate. Muslims constitute 1.5 billion people. Believe it or not, they are not all trying to kill you. Most of them go about their daily lives working, raising their families and worshipping as they see fit.
Believe it or not, there are also millions of Americans who are muslims. They are law abiding, pay their taxes, serve in the military, marry, raise their children........they are not trying to kill you either.
Like any other American, they have a right to worship where they please

 

[Sheldon]

On 9-12-01 if someone had asked me what would be the best test for our religious tolerance, I would've said 'build a mosque near where those buildings used to be'.

It's disappointing to see that some people in this country--and it's probably not an insignificant number--care more about "keeping them away" than about putting into words and actions the ideals behind our founding documents.

 

[Woyzeck]

Link number 7 lets start there.
KUALA* LUMPUR* DECLARATION ON INTERNATIONAL* TERRORISM

All right, fair enough. Your point above was asking if they rejected the teachings of Koran. You'd really have to ask individual Muslims and imams and what not, to get a response. I'm not a Muslim, so I dunno how precisely they reconcile some of the more violent language in the Koran, but I would think they do it in a similar manner to how Judaism or Christianity reconciles some of the more violent language in the Old and New Testaments.

Do they rejectterrorist radical muslims?
From your link
3. We take note of the important inaugural statement by The Honourable Prime Minister of Malaysia, Dato’ Seri Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad, which constitutes an official document of this Extraordinary Session;

Do you know anyhting about the person that is mentioned in number three? the person they call Honorable?
Mahathir has always been an outspoken critic of the United States
Under Mahathir, Malaysia was a staunch supporter of the Palestinian cause
and just what is the Palestinian cause?

About him? Not really. But all the links do indeed generally reject terrorism.

I would imagine they support the Palestinians over the Israelis. It's a controversial and touchy subject, which Muslims, Jews and Christians all having a stake in seeing as they all place great significance in the region. Israel isn't exactly squeaky clean itself in it, so anyone who takes either side in the issue is going to have some mud on their face from the terrorists against Israel or the actions of Israel itself.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Explain one thing for me

How is building a house of worship an act of hate?

That is the crux of your argument

How is the building of a building honoring a religion that was used as the basis for the killing of 3,000 Americans on the very site of that killing not an act of hate?

NOLA....you have to put away your hate. Muslims constitute 1.5 billion people. Believe it or not, they are not all trying to kill you. Most of them go about their daily lives working, raising their families and worshipping as they see fit.
Believe it or not, there are also millions of Americans who are muslims. They are law abiding, pay their taxes, serve in the military, marry, raise their children........they are not trying to kill you either.
Like any other American, they have a right to worship where they please

You must put away your silly need to not confront that which is out to get you. And no, I don't believe every Muslim on the planet is outto get me.

I do believe that Islam, since it has stated repeatedly that they wish to destroiy Israel and the West, must be taken seriously. You wanna go though life with your head up your ass thinking if you just placate these folks, all will be ok, fine. I choose not to. I've seen their handiwork.... it ain't pretty.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I did. It might've got lost in the shuffle, this thread's gotten popular this afternoon.

Link number 7 lets start there.
KUALA* LUMPUR* DECLARATION ON INTERNATIONAL* TERRORISM

All right, fair enough. Your point above was asking if they rejected the teachings of Koran. You'd really have to ask individual Muslims and imams and what not, to get a response. I'm not a Muslim, so I dunno how precisely they reconcile some of the more violent language in the Koran, but I would think they do it in a similar manner to how Judaism or Christianity reconciles some of the more violent language in the Old and New Testaments.

The Quran contains no contradictions older verses are replaced by newer verses in the event of a contridiction the study of this process in calls naskh (abrogation)

An example of the abrogation: there are 124 versus that call for tolerance and patience which have been canceled and replaced by this one single verse:

9.5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quran, there are only 43 Surahs that were not affected by this concept.

This doctrine is based on the Quran, where Allah allegedly says in Surah 2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allâh is able to do all things?

Also, in Surah
16101. And when We change a Verse [of the Qur'ân, i.e. cancel (abrogate) its order] in place of another, and Allâh knows the best of what He sends down, they (the disbelievers) say: "You (O Muhammad SAW) are but a Muftari! (forger, liar)." Nay, but most of them know not.
The Noble Quran : Surat 16

The Abrogator and the Abrogated
In their attempt to polish Islam's image, Muslim activists usually quote the Meccan passages of the Quran that call for love, peace and patience. The deliberately hid the Medenan passages that call for killing, decapitating, and maiming.

Muslim activists also fail to reveal to people in the West a major doctrine in Islam called "al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh" (the Abrogator and the Abrogated). This simply means that when a recent verse in the Quran gives a contradictory view to another verse that preceded it (chronologically), the recent verse abrogates (cancels and replaces) the old verse and renders it null and void.

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir


[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say,“if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah,(2) nor in the Last Day,(3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad),(4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

[al-Tawbah 9:29]

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

And Allaah is the Source of strength.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219


Islam Question and Answer - There is no compulsion to accept Islam