Buh Bye Obamacare

[OKTexas]

... Obama will go down in history as the feckless centrist who tried too hard to please everyone.

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

 

[OKTexas]

Here's the thing about an insurance mandate.

A "mandate" is simply a fine for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave. For example, if you don't buy health insurance, you have to pay more tax than someone who did buy health insurance.

That's all it is.

Well, if you don't get a mortgage, you have to pay more taxes than someone who did get a mortgage. You are punished for not buying a house! We have a mortgage mandate. The government punishes you for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave.

If you don't have kids, you have to pay more taxes than someone who does have kids. We have a child mandate. The government punishes you for not behaving in a way the government wants you to behave.


Americans have actually demanded this kind of tax scheme for a very long time. So it was not a big leap to make you pay more taxes if you don't buy insurance.

People who think they are conservatives are actually the biggest defenders of this insanity. They mandate you pay a tax fine for not having kids or not having a mortgage.

So it is no surprise these same fake conservatives came up with the idea of taxing you more for not buying health insurance.

A mandate is used to force people into a behavior. It should be used only when there is a public good. In the case of healthcare there is a public good. People will receive healthcare and if they don't have healthcare insurance everyone who pays will pay more. The fact is that you were already paying the tax if you had insurance. That is why healthcare costs were rising before Obamacare.

Your examples have a huge flaw in them. You actually have to spend more to get the tax breaks. The tax code recognizes that there are higher costs for certain activities that are desirable and partially compensates you. Your taxes do not go up for not having a child.

"A mandate is used to force people into a behavior."
Exactly!



"Your examples have a huge flaw in them. You actually have to spend more to get the tax breaks."
You actually have to spend more (buy insurance) to not pay more taxes!



"Your taxes do not go up for not having a child."
You pay more taxes than the person who has a child! You pay more taxes than the person who buys health insurance!



A distinction without a difference.



That's why the insurance mandate was no big leap. We already have tax mandates. Mortgage mandate, child mandate, etc., etc., etc.

They are all examples of government forcing people into a behavior.

Better known as social engineering thorough the tax code.


.

 

[francoHFW]

... Obama will go down in history as the feckless centrist who tried too hard to please everyone.

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

 

[OKTexas]

Sure it was . Figures you don’t see that.

'An individual mandate to purchase healthcare was initially proposed by the politically conservative Heritage Foundation in 1989 as an alternative to single-payer health care.[13][14][15][16][17] Stuart Butler, an early supporter of the individual mandate at the Heritage Foundation, wrote:

If a young man wrecks his Porsche and has not had the foresight to obtain insurance, we may commiserate, but society feels no obligation to repair his car. But health care is different. If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance.[18]

The Heritage Foundation changed its position in 2011, calling the individual mandate unconstitutional.[19]

From its inception, the idea of an individual mandate was championed by Republican politicians as a free-market approach to health care reform.[18][20] Supporters included Charles Grassley, Mitt Romney, and the late John Chafee.[21] The individual mandate was felt to resonate with conservative principles of individual responsibility, and conservative groups recognized that the healthcare market was unique.'

Health insurance mandate - Wikipedia

It figures because I don't like people who commit a fraud against me that I have to pay for. You apparently have no conscience.

You apparently cannot stand to be corrected. Roberts labeled it a tax and cast the deciding vote. It has nothing to do with me. It simply is what it is. Now.....if you need to yell at someone yell at Roberts.

So what. Roberts was right to allow the mandate even if he had to go through legalistic gymnastics to do it. I am yelling at you because you are the one who insists it is unconstitutional.

You're sharp as a tack son. You said.....

"
"Republicans are relying on a judge to legislate from the bench. That seems okay to you."

I responded...

Wow. You do realize that Roberts "legislated" from the bench, right? The Gov was arguing that it wasn't a tax, he decided it WAS a tax and thus it the mandate was "Constitutional".

You don't seem to mind legislation from the "bench" if you "like" it. How very hypocritical of you. The administration's lawyers were arguing that the mandate WASN'T a "tax". Roberts said "yes it is" and thus it became "Constitutional". You aren't very good at this.

By all means, ACA mandate was a tax. The government argued it's not, and called it penalty so it wouldn't look like Barry was lying about "no new taxes". Although I don't support commiecare at all, I think Roberts had no other choice but call it what it is.

As written in the law, the penalty was ruled unconstitutional. Roberts legislated/dictated that new tax all by himself. Try reading the first two sentences of the Constitution and tell me if that was kosher.


.

 

[OKTexas]

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

Really, a friend, who worked for congress at the time had to pick and chose which tests her daughter would get because of the deductibles and out of pocket costs.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight, I just go by what individuals have told me form their experiences.

BTW I see you didn't have the balls to reply to post 838 that you rated funny.


.

 

[francoHFW]

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

Really, a friend, who worked for congress at the time had to pick and chose which tests her daughter would get because of the deductibles and out of pocket costs.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight, I just go by what individuals have told me form their experiences.

BTW I see you didn't have the balls to reply to post 838 that you rated funny.


.

You will have to remind me what I was laughing at... I don't have numbers of post. Obamacare was a solution, a Republican one so it would take time and tinkering. It is not dead yet. It will live on in Blue States. If they try 2 stop Medicaid in 30 States for poor workers there will be trouble etc etc. We really need to go after costs of drugs and Hospital. They are ridiculous and doctors too!

 

[idb]

Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated.

 

[francoHFW]

Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated.

No Republicans did.... I have had doctors who hated Obamacare and did not realize there were subsidies or annual caps or Anything... Typical Republicans. It is not over LOL

 

[francoHFW]

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

Really, a friend, who worked for congress at the time had to pick and chose which tests her daughter would get because of the deductibles and out of pocket costs.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight, I just go by what individuals have told me form their experiences.

BTW I see you didn't have the balls to reply to post 838 that you rated funny.


.

Someone who worked for Congress? Hard to believe really.

 

[OKTexas]

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

Really, a friend, who worked for congress at the time had to pick and chose which tests her daughter would get because of the deductibles and out of pocket costs.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight, I just go by what individuals have told me form their experiences.

BTW I see you didn't have the balls to reply to post 838 that you rated funny.


.

You will have to remind me what I was laughing at... I don't have numbers of post. Obamacare was a solution, a Republican one so it would take time and tinkering. It is not dead yet. It will live on in Blue States. If they try 2 stop Medicaid in 30 States for poor workers there will be trouble etc etc. We really need to go after costs of drugs and Hospital. They are ridiculous and doctors too!

I explained the difference between a filed cloture vote and a filibuster to one of your comrades.


.

 

[OKTexas]

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

Really, a friend, who worked for congress at the time had to pick and chose which tests her daughter would get because of the deductibles and out of pocket costs.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight, I just go by what individuals have told me form their experiences.

BTW I see you didn't have the balls to reply to post 838 that you rated funny.


.

Someone who worked for Congress? Hard to believe really.

I won't say more than I have that could identify them, but yes, they were required to enroll in the fiasco called maobamacare.


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Obama tried too hard to please his base. ACA was a strictly partisan vote. Obama gave up on consensus and signed it into law anyway, knowing that half the country hated it. That was his failure. That's why we got Trump.

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

What the ****?

We know how to do math and our wallet..

Didn't anyone teach you that in skool..

You take a $ from me I am going to be pissed off .

.

 

[francoHFW]

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

Really, a friend, who worked for congress at the time had to pick and chose which tests her daughter would get because of the deductibles and out of pocket costs.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight, I just go by what individuals have told me form their experiences.

BTW I see you didn't have the balls to reply to post 838 that you rated funny.


.

You will have to remind me what I was laughing at... I don't have numbers of post. Obamacare was a solution, a Republican one so it would take time and tinkering. It is not dead yet. It will live on in Blue States. If they try 2 stop Medicaid in 30 States for poor workers there will be trouble etc etc. We really need to go after costs of drugs and Hospital. They are ridiculous and doctors too!

I explained the difference between a filed cloture vote and a filibuster to one of your comrades.


.

Good for you LOL. Too bad you can't figure out why the rich should pay higher percentage in taxes. And why that wrecks the the country.

 

[francoHFW]

Every Republican vote was a strictly partisan vote. People are tired of partisanship. They support Obamacare but they realize it needs to be fixed. They want the parties to work together and fix it. That is why many Republican moderates will be replaced by Democrat moderates.

They do not support Obamacare and never have.
It was force on people....and was a giant failure

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

What the ****?

We know how to do math and our wallet..

Didn't anyone teach you that in skool..

You take a $ from me I am going to be pissed off .

.

Democrats are trying to help you. Republicans are trying to help the rich bastards... It's always surprising when a dupe has heard of the annual cap Etc.

 

[francoHFW]

The ACA did what it was set out to do. Better insurance coverage, more people insured. no pre-existing cindition clause.

All the whining from the right & they failed to come up with anything better.

Yeah, it was so good after a few years no one could afford the deductibles and co-pays. LMAO


.

More misinformed garbage... Considering the annual cap on out-of-pocket costs was hardly higher than the deductible. We have misinformed functional morons running the country... Thanks Fox Rush GOP Etc.

Really, a friend, who worked for congress at the time had to pick and chose which tests her daughter would get because of the deductibles and out of pocket costs.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight, I just go by what individuals have told me form their experiences.

BTW I see you didn't have the balls to reply to post 838 that you rated funny.


.

Someone who worked for Congress? Hard to believe really.

I won't say more than I have that could identify them, but yes, they were required to enroll in the fiasco called maobamacare.


.

Lying GOP scumbags --they shot themselves in the foot. I don't believe a word they say.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So, the POTUS and the Repubs will no longer enforce the preexisting conditions clause which frees insurance companies from having to cover them, which means they can start to drop all those people

Just like taxes, you’re clearly ******* clueless about insurance. Whining about “pre-existing conditions” is literally like crashing you’re ******* car and then calling Progressive Insurance and demanding that they cover the repairs.

****-stick....if you permit pre-existing conditions, then progressives parasites such as yourself will refuse to carry health insurance until the moment they need it. Which means they won’t be paying into it and the companies will go bankrupt.

God Almighty are you the most ignorant progressive I’ve ever encountered.

You are a ******* moron, there has to be a system in place to deal with people who have conditions through no fault of their own. One example is children under the age of 18 with Type-1 diabetes, eventually they will be adults and if selfish ***** like you have their way will never be able to purchase insurance.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So, the POTUS and the Repubs will no longer enforce the preexisting conditions clause which frees insurance companies from having to cover them, which means they can start to drop all those people

Just like taxes, you’re clearly ******* clueless about insurance. Whining about “pre-existing conditions” is literally like crashing you’re ******* car and then calling Progressive Insurance and demanding that they cover the repairs.

****-stick....if you permit pre-existing conditions, then progressives parasites such as yourself will refuse to carry health insurance until the moment they need it. Which means they won’t be paying into it and the companies will go bankrupt.

God Almighty are you the most ignorant progressive I’ve ever encountered.

Any system has to cover pre-existing conditions. We have no idea what you are babbling about, super duper.

He does not know anything about taxes either. He has never made enough money to realize that some of us have to send a check to the Govt to cover what our payroll deduction did not cover of our tax burden. To this day he still insist that people cannot make enough money for that to be necessary.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Are you saying what should happen is those that can’t pay get no care?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

yes, get insurance, if not, you gotta pay directly.......

So. What you are saying is that someone that is denied insurance and does not have the money to pay the bill should receive no care at all?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

denied? what do you mean by that?

Here is an example,

John Jacobs graduates college with a nice degree and goes to work for a small company that does not provide health insurance but offers him a nice salary of 30 grand a year. Mr Jacobs then goes to an insurance company and applies for medical insurance coverage. They look at his medical record and go "oh ,you have Type-1 diabetes, so we are forced to deny your application for insurance. Mr Jacobs goes to 10 other companies and they all tell him the same thing

Since he does not have insurance he chooses to use cheap WalMart insulin and 2 months later ends in the ER due to hyperglycemia. He is rushed to the hospital where they discover he has no insurance and does not have the available means to cover the ER visit or the 2 to 3 day stay that normally accompanies such an event.

At this point, should the hospital tell him to leave since he does not have the means to pay?

The FDA requires that all "cheap" (aka generic) drugs have the same dosage as name brand drugs. As per FDA:

Do generic medicines work the same as brand-name medicines?

Yes. Any generic medicine modeled after a brand-name medicine must perform the same in the body as the brand-name medicine. This standard applies to all generic medicines. A generic medicine is the same as a brand-name medicine in dosage, safety, effectiveness, strength, stability, and quality, as well as in the way it is taken and the way it should be used. Generic medicines use the same active ingredients as brand-name medicines and work the same way, so they have the same risks and benefits as the brand-name medicines. The FDA Generic Drugs Program conducts a rigorous review to make certain generic medicines meet these standards, in addition to conducting 3,500 inspections of manufacturing plants a year and monitoring drug safety after the generic medicine has been approved and brought to market.

It is important to note that there will always be a slight, but not medically important, level of natural variability—just as there is for one batch of brand-name medicine compared with the next batch of brand-name product. This variability can and does occur during manufacturing, for both brand-name and generic medicines. When a medicine, generic or brand-name, is mass produced, very small variations in purity, size, strength, and other parameters are permitted. FDA limits how much variability is acceptable.

For example, in a very large research study1 comparing generics with brand-name medicines, it was found that there were very small differences (approximately 3.5%) in absorption into the body between generic and the brand-name medicines. Some generics were absorbed slightly more, some slightly less. This amount of difference is expected and acceptable, whether for one batch of brand-name medicine tested against another batch of the same brand, or for a generic tested against a brand-name medicine. As a rule, the difference for the generic-to-brand comparison was about the same as the brand-to-brand comparison. - Generic Drugs: Questions & Answers

Insulin is very different than basic generic medicines.

The insulin that WalMart sells is insulin that was first introduced more than 30 to 50 years ago and has since been replaced with more efficient artificial insulin.
The insulin at Walmart does not control highs and lows as well as what is available today because the technology then is not as good as it is today. Extended highs and dangerous lows are what do the damage to the body of a Type-1 diabetic and are what cause the more extensive healthcare problems later in life. That is why so many diabetics that grew up on that insulin have so many problems today. In the long run this sort of things ends up costing either the Govt or insurance companies way more money when someone has a foot amputated and can no longer function in society.

 

[Doc1]

LOLO......poor poor poor white trash can's, just can't adjust to the fact, the biggest beneficiaries of ACA....was poor poor poor white trashies...you people are too gotdamned dumb for words!!

As percent of population?

What difference does it make, how many nuts you are, you nuts are just stupid

Your claim is that whites are biggest beneficiaries. Percentages are proving they're not.

The same is with crime rate, fatherless homes and kids, drug usage, education, or almost any other statistic.

Prove me wrong.

Only the ill educated asks someone to prove a negative.

What exactly is negative in this case?

Seriously?

"The same is with crime rate, fatherless homes and kids, drug usage, education, or almost any other statistic.

Prove me wrong."

 

[Doc1]

I'll keep saying this right up until it happens. The end game here is Medicare for all. EVERYTHING else is a distraction and BOTH sides are distracting you.