Brussels Shooting and Why Europe Won’t Confront Islamic Jew-Hatred

[Sally]

There's always been some Anti Semitism in Europe, but as Muslim immigration grew and continues to grow, so does anti semitism.

But your post is jot surprising, as you always try to make excuses for Muslims atrocities and hate

UK government figures show that anti Semitism has risen in line with muslim migration, so why does this POS convert LIE so much

Correlation isn't necessarily causation.

There have been other articles regarding this, Coyote. In fact, my French Jewish neighbor only goes back so as to visit her elderly father in Paris and is trying to convince him to leave and come to America. She says it is not the same place in which she grew up in and was very dangerous now because of the Muslims. No doubt there are many Muslims living in France who just want to get on with their lives, but there is the element who hate Jews and will go after them. I can't help but think of that Jewish Moroccan young man in France held by Muslim Moroccan young men, and they tortured and totured him until he died.

 

[Coyote]

Another article on anti-semitism trends in the US and Europe. It's difficult to compare because each country measures it differently. In some European countries it's going down, in others it's going up. It's also been shown to be "manufactured" for political purposes (Ukraine) making it harder to get meaningful statistics.

Anti-Semitism in Europe: statistics from France, Germany, the U.K., and other countries

A table for UK shows a decline of almost half with 931 in 2009 to 526 in 2013.

Surprisingly Canada has shown an increase, with a light drop last year.

According to Antisemitism - Summary overview of the situation in
the European Union 2002–2012

The main conclusions that can be drawn from ECRI’s monitoring work on
antisemitism in the EU are as follows.

Representatives of Jewish communities report that they are well-
integrated in society.

EU Member States actively implement programmes aimed at combating
antisemitism, including education programmes and initiatives to support
Jewish culture.

EU Member States attempt to fight antisemitism through the courts.
Antisemitic stereotyping continues to be a reality in EU Member States.

Antisemitism is often openly expressed, including in the context of
sporting events.

Antisemitic incidents continue to occur in EU Member States, whether
expressed in terms of verbal and physical violence; threats, insults
directed at Jews going to synagogue; persistent harassment of rabbis;
repeated attacks on Jews wearing religious symbols; hate speech;
antisemitic bullying in schools; or through damage to or desecration of
property, including arson.

Jewish people wearing visible symbols of their religion are the most likely
targets of antisemitic incidents.

Denial and trivialisation of the Holocaust are becoming more common,
with glorification of the Nazi past also in evidence.

The expression of antisemitism on the internet is on the rise, as
demonstrated by the open expression of antisemitism in online forums.

Links are sometimes made between policies taken by the State of Israel
and members of Jewish communities at the local level.

Antisemitic incidents intensify in periods when conflict in the Middle East
flares up, with the nature and tone of news coverage of the conflict a
contributing factor.

Antisemitic demonstrations are sometimes organised by far-right groups
to coincide with events in the Jewish calendar or with the anniversary of
historical events of significance to Jewish communities, especially as
regards World War II.

Antisemitic material continues to be published in some EU Member
States, with few or no consequences for those who do so.

Some political parties in EU Member States are openly antisemitic.

The main perpetrators of antisemitic incidents are neo-Nazis,
sympathisers of the far right and far left, Muslim fundamentalists and the
younger generation, including school children. There are also incidents of
public antisemitic discourse on university campuses.

Discussions surrounding property restitution laws have spurred
antisemitic sentiments because the general population does not
understand why such laws are needed.

There are forums for dialogue bringing together members of Jewish and
Muslim communities and local government representatives to promote
mutual understanding and to take joint action to combat intolerance.

When you look at the overview, or this report - I'm not seeing a reluctance to confront the role of muslim fundamentalists, however the issue of anti-semitism in Europe is far deeper than Islamic immigrants and this seems evident in the summary.

No one is surprised that the bulk of it is comprised of neo-nazi sympathizers, but it is disturbing to see the increase in younger people and school age children. What are they being taught and by whom? It's also disturbing to see openly anti-semitic political parties.

I don't think Islamic anti-semitism is being ignored, but I do wonder if it's being blown out of proportion to direct anger at Muslim immigrants? There is also a powerful anti-Muslim sentiment in Europe, and it coincides with the increase in nationalism, political and economic strain, and an increase in anti-semitism. In the UK for example, anti-semitic hate crimes are showing a downward trend, but anti-Islamic hate crimes are showing an upward trend.
I think all of these trends are disturbing - particularly those glorifying anything to do with the Nazi's, or white washing the history into Nazi-lite. When you add in a culture that is accepting enough of it that there are openly anti-semitic (or anti-Islamic) parties being allowed to spout their rhetoric without public condemnation - that is a worrisome.

The point the report made about the internet is also interesting. And I guess not surprising. In real life - I see very very little anti-semitism. I grew up in a mixed religious neighborhood, if people were anti-semitic (or racist) - it was kept hidden. The internet seems to have removed all that, and I suppose I've been noticing it more and more. Racism, anti-semitism, hostility to immigrants, anti-islamism.

 

[Coyote]

UK government figures show that anti Semitism has risen in line with muslim migration, so why does this POS convert LIE so much

Correlation isn't necessarily causation.

There have been other articles regarding this, Coyote. In fact, my French Jewish neighbor only goes back so as to visit her elderly father in Paris and is trying to convince him to leave and come to America. She says it is not the same place in which she grew up in and was very dangerous now because of the Muslims. No doubt there are many Muslims living in France who just want to get on with their lives, but there is the element who hate Jews and will go after them. I can't help but think of that Jewish Moroccan young man in France held by Muslim Moroccan young men, and they tortured and totured him until he died.

I'm very cautious about equating correlation with causation. Often the causes are more complex than a single factor. I think that for whatever reason - Europe is becomming more openly hostile to traditionally scape-goated minorities and immigrants, and there are increasingly nationalistic tones to the politics targeting particular groups. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[georgephillip]

There were options available in 1948 that didn't require western imperial agents to divide Palestine in such a way as to give one-third of her citizens 55% of the land. The fact there was no vote in Palestine in 1948 makes it even more important to hold one today. Jews have de facto control over all the land between the River and the sea; it is time to allow every legal human being living there a vote on who writes the laws they all must suffer under. Let the chips fall where they may.

Herr George (faking it that he really cares about the Arabs) overlooks the fact that the Hashemites from Saudi Arabia were given 78% of the land which is now the Kingdom of Jordan (and I believe the majority of the population considers themselves Palestinians), and the 22% was to be divided equally between the Arabs and the Jews. I guess when you look at a map of the Arab world and see the enormous amount of land governed by the Arabs (Muslims actually), you can appreciate the fact how greedy they are that they couldn't stand to see 11% of the Palestine Mandate to be given to the Jews and the dhimmis on these forums go right along with them.

Which doesn't change the reality in Palestine today.
Jews rule either directly or indirectly over all people living between the River and the sea.
Yet only Jews and a minority of non-Jews have a vote in determining who writes the laws they live under.
The way to settle that is to have another Palestine Mandate where every human being of legal age gets a vote and apportion the legislature accordingly. If that ends the Jewish state, so much the better.

 

[toastman]

Herr George (faking it that he really cares about the Arabs) overlooks the fact that the Hashemites from Saudi Arabia were given 78% of the land which is now the Kingdom of Jordan (and I believe the majority of the population considers themselves Palestinians), and the 22% was to be divided equally between the Arabs and the Jews. I guess when you look at a map of the Arab world and see the enormous amount of land governed by the Arabs (Muslims actually), you can appreciate the fact how greedy they are that they couldn't stand to see 11% of the Palestine Mandate to be given to the Jews and the dhimmis on these forums go right along with them.

Which doesn't change the reality in Palestine today.
Jews rule either directly or indirectly over all people living between the River and the sea.
Yet only Jews and a minority of non-Jews have a vote in determining who writes the laws they live under.
The way to settle that is to have another Palestine Mandate where every human being of legal age gets a vote and apportion the legislature accordingly. If that ends the Jewish state, so much the better.

Which is why Israel won't allow it.

 

[aris2chat]

Jews were invited to return to their homeland before zionism or nazism.
Jews came and bought the land, mostly several time higher than market price.
Locals left their land at the behest of the arab armies that were about the attack. The few arabs "forced" from their land for one reason or another is problematic but the numbers are relatively insignificant. Some were hostile to Israel, some had to be moved for security or later for planning of infrastructure. A few hundred might have wrongly been forced to move. Many simply panicked and did not return when they could have.

The vast majority of refugees were not forced from their land. Most did not have land but were workers that came to the mandate for jobs. Even those who dwelt in the mandate or ottoman empire did not actually own their land.

Blaming "zionism" for the arab's own problems is scapegoating. Refugee, militants, religious separatists, pan-arabists, khilafatists, Iranian revolutionists, etc., all need to look internally for why their situation exists. Blaming mandate, the west, Israel, what ever, is not going to do anything but focus anger and hate at the wrong people. Their have to look back to their own origins and faith. Regardless of religion, jihad is not the answer. They will only prosper in peace.

There were options available in 1948 that didn't require western imperial agents to divide Palestine in such a way as to give one-third of her citizens 55% of the land. The fact there was no vote in Palestine in 1948 makes it even more important to hold one today. Jews have de facto control over all the land between the River and the sea; it is time to allow every legal human being living there a vote on who writes the laws they all must suffer under. Let the chips fall where they may.

Arab decided to deny the palestinians a state at the UN. Mandates were created to divide up the Ottoman empire, which they did.

 

[georgephillip]

Which doesn't change the reality in Palestine today.
Jews rule either directly or indirectly over all people living between the River and the sea.
Yet only Jews and a minority of non-Jews have a vote in determining who writes the laws they live under.
The way to settle that is to have another Palestine Mandate where every human being of legal age gets a vote and apportion the legislature accordingly. If that ends the Jewish state, so much the better.

Which is why Israel won't allow it.

Which is why Israel will vanish from the page of time.

 

[aris2chat]

Herr George (faking it that he really cares about the Arabs) overlooks the fact that the Hashemites from Saudi Arabia were given 78% of the land which is now the Kingdom of Jordan (and I believe the majority of the population considers themselves Palestinians), and the 22% was to be divided equally between the Arabs and the Jews. I guess when you look at a map of the Arab world and see the enormous amount of land governed by the Arabs (Muslims actually), you can appreciate the fact how greedy they are that they couldn't stand to see 11% of the Palestine Mandate to be given to the Jews and the dhimmis on these forums go right along with them.

Which doesn't change the reality in Palestine today.
Jews rule either directly or indirectly over all people living between the River and the sea.
Yet only Jews and a minority of non-Jews have a vote in determining who writes the laws they live under.
The way to settle that is to have another Palestine Mandate where every human being of legal age gets a vote and apportion the legislature accordingly. If that ends the Jewish state, so much the better.

PA has been unable to hold election because of Hamas. Votes are supposed to be held this summer but the unity is fragile and might not last that long.

 

[Sunni Man]

Which doesn't change the reality in Palestine today.
Jews rule either directly or indirectly over all people living between the River and the sea.
Yet only Jews and a minority of non-Jews have a vote in determining who writes the laws they live under.
The way to settle that is to have another Palestine Mandate where every human being of legal age gets a vote and apportion the legislature accordingly. If that ends the Jewish state, so much the better.

Which is why Israel won't allow it.

Israel claims to be a Democracy........which it is if your a Jew. .

 

[aris2chat]

Which is why Israel won't allow it.

Israel claims to be a Democracy........which it is if your a Jew. .

All Israelis have the same right to vote or speak. They are represented in government.

 

[georgephillip]

Which is why Israel won't allow it.

Israel claims to be a Democracy........which it is if your a Jew. .

Jews are "chosen", remember?
Their god gave them Palestine

 

[georgephillip]

Anybody else notice some formatting irregularities

 

[Sally]

Israel claims to be a Democracy........which it is if your a Jew. .

Jews are "chosen", remember?
Their god gave them Palestine

Now, Herr George is going to explain to all of us what "chosen" actually means. You're on, Herr George. Explain it to us.

 

[Sally]

Which doesn't change the reality in Palestine today.
Jews rule either directly or indirectly over all people living between the River and the sea.
Yet only Jews and a minority of non-Jews have a vote in determining who writes the laws they live under.
The way to settle that is to have another Palestine Mandate where every human being of legal age gets a vote and apportion the legislature accordingly. If that ends the Jewish state, so much the better.

Which is why Israel won't allow it.

Can you see, Herr George, telling his same spiel to the Muslims -- that all the people living there should be part of the voting process? Herr George, why not tell us what is going on, for instance, in the Maldives with all people not being allowed to vote. Is it only that you have a problem when your new friends are involved, and your favorite scapegoats don't give them their way. The bottom line here really is that they want to see the Muslims swamp the Jews population wise so that the Muslims can eventually govern all of the Middle East aslong with the Arab states in Africa. Those "damn Jews" shouldn't be allowed to govern one tiny bit of land in the Arab world. That is why you see Muslims all over the world get on their high step when it comes to Israel even though they might have never met a Jew in their lives.

 

[georgephillip]

Jews are "chosen", remember?
Their god gave them Palestine

Now, Herr George is going to explain to all of us what "chosen" actually means. You're on, Herr George. Explain it to us.

"I have long been uncomfortable with the concept of the 'Chosen People'. To suggest that as Jews we are somehow closer to G-d than all other nations smacks of arrogance, elitism, and racial prejudice. How is that any different to anti-Semitism?

"Sincerely,
Margaret

"Answer:

"Dear Margaret,

"That is a fantastic question -- a question that could only come from someone who is chosen. Allow me to explain..."

You're welcome

Are the Jews the Chosen People? - Questions & Answers

 

[georgephillip]

Which is why Israel won't allow it.

Can you see, Herr George, telling his same spiel to the Muslims -- that all the people living there should be part of the voting process? Herr George, why not tell us what is going on, for instance, in the Maldives with all people not being allowed to vote. Is it only that you have a problem when your new friends are involved, and your favorite scapegoats don't give them their way. The bottom line here really is that they want to see the Muslims swamp the Jews population wise so that the Muslims can eventually govern all of the Middle East aslong with the Arab states in Africa. Those "damn Jews" shouldn't be allowed to govern one tiny bit of land in the Arab world. That is why you see Muslims all over the world get on their high step when it comes to Israel even though they might have never met a Jew in their lives.

I'm wondering why Toastie's quote (#125) is attributed to me?

 

[Sally]

Correlation isn't necessarily causation.

There have been other articles regarding this, Coyote. In fact, my French Jewish neighbor only goes back so as to visit her elderly father in Paris and is trying to convince him to leave and come to America. She says it is not the same place in which she grew up in and was very dangerous now because of the Muslims. No doubt there are many Muslims living in France who just want to get on with their lives, but there is the element who hate Jews and will go after them. I can't help but think of that Jewish Moroccan young man in France held by Muslim Moroccan young men, and they tortured and totured him until he died.

I'm very cautious about equating correlation with causation. Often the causes are more complex than a single factor. I think that for whatever reason - Europe is becomming more openly hostile to traditionally scape-goated minorities and immigrants, and there are increasingly nationalistic tones to the politics targeting particular groups. I hope I'm wrong.

I think, Coyote, we all have read about the rise of the NeoNazis in Europe and how they are winning votes. I do believe that part of their rise is because of the huge immigration into their countries. Let's face it -- there has always been anti-Semitism in Europe even if there are small numbers of Jews living there.. It didn't die out after World War II. However, these nationalists have seen huge amounts of people being allowed into their countries, people who refuse to assimilate and people who are committing an awful lot of crime, including raping of the indigenous European women. Meanwhile, it appears that anti-Semitism has risen because of he Muslim population. There have been many articles of what has happened to Jews by Muslims. If the Muslims have hated the Jews in their native countries, do you really think that so many of them are going to stop their hatred once they reach Europe? So far we haven't seen the same thing happening here because the Muslims move into neighborhoods which are peopled with Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. and everyone seems to get along. At least this is what has happened here in the San Fernando Valley. People shop side by side, and no one seems anxious about the other.

 

[Sally]

Can you see, Herr George, telling his same spiel to the Muslims -- that all the people living there should be part of the voting process? Herr George, why not tell us what is going on, for instance, in the Maldives with all people not being allowed to vote. Is it only that you have a problem when your new friends are involved, and your favorite scapegoats don't give them their way. The bottom line here really is that they want to see the Muslims swamp the Jews population wise so that the Muslims can eventually govern all of the Middle East aslong with the Arab states in Africa. Those "damn Jews" shouldn't be allowed to govern one tiny bit of land in the Arab world. That is why you see Muslims all over the world get on their high step when it comes to Israel even though they might have never met a Jew in their lives.

I'm wondering why Toastie's quote (#125) is attributed to me?

Didn't you start in about all those people having a right to vote even if they weren't Israelis in a previous post? Poor Herr George, these forums mean so much to him that he gets up so early to begin posting and he feels it is so important that he should be answered directly instead of answering someone else.

 

[georgephillip]

I'm wondering why Toastie's quote (#125) is attributed to me?

Didn't you start in about all those people having a right to vote even if they weren't Israelis in a previous post? Poor Herr George, these forums mean so much to him that he gets up so early to begin posting and he feels it is so important that he should be answered directly instead of answering someone else.

You're missing the point.
Toastie's comment has been attributed to me.

 

[Sally]

Didn't you start in about all those people having a right to vote even if they weren't Israelis in a previous post? Poor Herr George, these forums mean so much to him that he gets up so early to begin posting and he feels it is so important that he should be answered directly instead of answering someone else.

You're missing the point.
Toastie's comment has been attributed to me.

Will this make a very big difference in your real life, Herr Georgie? People have been misquoted on occasion, and they haven't made a big deal about it.