"Brownie....You're Doin' A Helluva Job"

[Vandalshandle]

If Ray Nagin couldn't handle a crisis that took six days getting there...how do you think he would have handled a tornado or terrorist attack that came with no notice? You can always tell what someone's made of when the chips are down...the good ones perform better...the bad ones perform worse. Ray Nagin went into vapor lock but what's worse is that he then started playing the blame game because someone else wasn't getting there fast enough to fix the problems that HE created!

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

 

[Faun]

And your contention that he only had two days to react is laughable...it would be two days if there were no weather forecasts letting the whole world know that there was one monster hurricane out in the Gulf...but since people in the Gulf start watching hurricanes closely as soon as they spawn out in the Caribbean, only a complete moron wouldn't have known that Katrina was out there.

Again, pretty fucking retarded as no one is saying the storm wasn't being watched. It was.

4 days before hitting NO, it hit SE Florida as a C1 and was projected to come out on the west coast of Florida as a TS, then hit St. Marks, FL (about 350 miles from NO) as a C1.

3 days before hitting NO, the projected path shifted about 50 miles west to Destin FL. NO is now barely in the cone; which stretches almost 500 miles wide. Later in the day, the path shifts more to the left to Alabama/Mississippi border and Governor Blanco declares a state of emergency.

2 days before hitting NO, Katrina's upgraded to a C5 and the path shifts more to the west putting NO in the center of the cone. That morning, Parishes begin ordering mandatory evacuations. Southbound lanes are opened for northbound traffic. The governor made a formal request to president Bush for federal assistance. Later in the day, Nagin calls for evacuations for the rest of the city.

1 day before hitting NO, Nagin upgrades the evacuation to being mandatory. The Superdome and other shelters around the city are opened and limited bus service was made available to those who needed and wanted it, to be taken to the city's shelters.

No one ignored it as you idiotically suggest and evacuations began the morning after it shifted to NO. The worst you can say is they could have started the evacuation earlier in the morning than they did. They had 2 days to git out of Dodge.

 

[Faun]

If Ray Nagin couldn't handle a crisis that took six days getting there...how do you think he would have handled a tornado or terrorist attack that came with no notice? You can always tell what someone's made of when the chips are down...the good ones perform better...the bad ones perform worse. Ray Nagin went into vapor lock but what's worse is that he then started playing the blame game because someone else wasn't getting there fast enough to fix the problems that HE created!

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

 

[Faun]

Before hurricane Charlie hit the Fort Myers area most of the models had it making landfall up around Tampa. Funny thing though, Faun...local officials in Southwest Florida prepared like the storm might hit us. Now why would they do that? An even better question...WHY DIDN'T RAY NAGIN?

They prepared in SW Florida because they were under a hurricane warning. That's what all coastal regions do, ya moron.

 

[Oldstyle]

If Ray Nagin couldn't handle a crisis that took six days getting there...how do you think he would have handled a tornado or terrorist attack that came with no notice? You can always tell what someone's made of when the chips are down...the good ones perform better...the bad ones perform worse. Ray Nagin went into vapor lock but what's worse is that he then started playing the blame game because someone else wasn't getting there fast enough to fix the problems that HE created!

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

If Ray Nagin couldn't handle a crisis that took six days getting there...how do you think he would have handled a tornado or terrorist attack that came with no notice? You can always tell what someone's made of when the chips are down...the good ones perform better...the bad ones perform worse. Ray Nagin went into vapor lock but what's worse is that he then started playing the blame game because someone else wasn't getting there fast enough to fix the problems that HE created!

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

 

[Oldstyle]

Before hurricane Charlie hit the Fort Myers area most of the models had it making landfall up around Tampa. Funny thing though, Faun...local officials in Southwest Florida prepared like the storm might hit us. Now why would they do that? An even better question...WHY DIDN'T RAY NAGIN?

They prepared in SW Florida because they were under a hurricane warning. That's what all coastal regions do, ya moron.

So New Orleans wasn't under a hurricane warning? A city below sea level with levees built to withstand category 3 storms when a category 5 storm was out in the Gulf? Really, Faun?

You STILL seem to want to believe that New Orleans was somehow blissfully unaware that Katrina was out there until it was too late...and then there wasn't a darn thing poor Ray Nagin could do! That my friend, is laughably not the case!

 

[Oldstyle]

You say they had two days to "get out of Dodge"? How were those poor people in the lower wards supposed to be doing that since THEY are the majority of the people in New Orleans that didn't own cars and Ray Nagin at the last moment decided that they couldn't use school buses (as was laid out in the emergency evacuation plans) because he was worried about "liability"?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

If Ray Nagin couldn't handle a crisis that took six days getting there...how do you think he would have handled a tornado or terrorist attack that came with no notice? You can always tell what someone's made of when the chips are down...the good ones perform better...the bad ones perform worse. Ray Nagin went into vapor lock but what's worse is that he then started playing the blame game because someone else wasn't getting there fast enough to fix the problems that HE created!

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

For some reason, you keep writing about Nagin's actions before the storm, in spite of the fact that has been repeatedly pointed out to you that the issue is why emergency response teams took so long to help after the storm. You really need to understand that nobody in their right mind is going to defend Nagin. What you fail to understand is that there were thousands of American citizens stranded without food and water for days. American citizens were suffering and dying, and people in D.C didn't seem to give a rat's ass. If a disaster of this nature had occurred in Washington D.C., every federal agency in the country would have been on it in a New York second. FEMA, for example, responded to a disastrous flood, with no boats. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the only help I received after Katrina was from the Red Cross and the National Guard. FEMA did absolutely nothing for me over the 6 months that it took for me to get back on my feet. I had to borrow $50,000 from my brother to start rebuilding my house, because FEMA subcontractor's did not get around to sending an adjuster out to my house for 4 months for settlement of my flood insurance claim,.

 

[Faun]

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

If Ray Nagin couldn't handle a crisis that took six days getting there...how do you think he would have handled a tornado or terrorist attack that came with no notice? You can always tell what someone's made of when the chips are down...the good ones perform better...the bad ones perform worse. Ray Nagin went into vapor lock but what's worse is that he then started playing the blame game because someone else wasn't getting there fast enough to fix the problems that HE created!

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

Ok, let's follow your hypothetical to it's logical conclusion. Nagin follows the plan .... somehow get hundreds of bus drivers to abandon their own families to bus folks out of New Orleans .... they follow the plan and drive to the north side of Lake Pontchartrain to wait for the storm to pass .... the hurricane follows them to the north and thousands more die, stuck in busses which can't escape the storm's path.

All that remains the same as what actually happened is righties' screaming Nagin's head on a pike.

 

[Faun]

Before hurricane Charlie hit the Fort Myers area most of the models had it making landfall up around Tampa. Funny thing though, Faun...local officials in Southwest Florida prepared like the storm might hit us. Now why would they do that? An even better question...WHY DIDN'T RAY NAGIN?

They prepared in SW Florida because they were under a hurricane warning. That's what all coastal regions do, ya moron.

So New Orleans wasn't under a hurricane warning? A city below sea level with levees built to withstand category 3 storms when a category 5 storm was out in the Gulf? Really, Faun?

You STILL seem to want to believe that New Orleans was somehow blissfully unaware that Katrina was out there until it was too late...and then there wasn't a darn thing poor Ray Nagin could do! That my friend, is laughably not the case!

Of course New Orleans was under a hurricane warning -- 2 days before Katrina hit when the city began evacuating, the governor declared a state of emergency, and begged Bush for federal aid .... which she had to wait for a week after the storm passed to arrive.

 

[Faun]

You say they had two days to "get out of Dodge"? How were those poor people in the lower wards supposed to be doing that since THEY are the majority of the people in New Orleans that didn't own cars and Ray Nagin at the last moment decided that they couldn't use school buses (as was laid out in the emergency evacuation plans) because he was worried about "liability"?

They had the option to take a bus, provided by the city, to a shelter. You do know you can't force people to do that, right?

So many stayed behind thinking they could weather the storm. What excuse was there for Bush to abandon those folks?

 

[Faun]

Before hurricane Charlie hit the Fort Myers area most of the models had it making landfall up around Tampa. Funny thing though, Faun...local officials in Southwest Florida prepared like the storm might hit us. Now why would they do that? An even better question...WHY DIDN'T RAY NAGIN?

Why didn't you answer? Remind me.... how many days before Charley hiy Florida did they evacuate Miami-Dade, Broward & Palm Beach counties?

 

[Oldstyle]

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

Ok, let's follow your hypothetical to it's logical conclusion. Nagin follows the plan .... somehow get hundreds of bus drivers to abandon their own families to bus folks out of New Orleans .... they follow the plan and drive to the north side of Lake Pontchartrain to wait for the storm to pass .... the hurricane follows them to the north and thousands more die, stuck in busses which can't escape the storm's path.

All that remains the same as what actually happened is righties' screaming Nagin's head on a pike.

LOL....why would the buses go north when that's the projected path of the storm? Most of the evacuees from New Orleans went west to Houston. You get more pathetic with each post where you try to excuse Nagin's incompetence, Faun.

And just to show that you're REALLY clueless...even going north and inexplicably staying in the path of the storm they would have been far safer than in New Orleans.

 

[Oldstyle]

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

For some reason, you keep writing about Nagin's actions before the storm, in spite of the fact that has been repeatedly pointed out to you that the issue is why emergency response teams took so long to help after the storm. You really need to understand that nobody in their right mind is going to defend Nagin. What you fail to understand is that there were thousands of American citizens stranded without food and water for days. American citizens were suffering and dying, and people in D.C didn't seem to give a rat's ass. If a disaster of this nature had occurred in Washington D.C., every federal agency in the country would have been on it in a New York second. FEMA, for example, responded to a disastrous flood, with no boats. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the only help I received after Katrina was from the Red Cross and the National Guard. FEMA did absolutely nothing for me over the 6 months that it took for me to get back on my feet. I had to borrow $50,000 from my brother to start rebuilding my house, because FEMA subcontractor's did not get around to sending an adjuster out to my house for 4 months for settlement of my flood insurance claim,.

Do you not understand the entire concept of WHY people evacuate in the face of a big hurricane? First of all the storm surge and high winds can kill you. Then there is the flooding from torrential rains that can kill you. But one of the main reasons to get out of the area is that there typically isn't power, many times you don't have running water, you usually can't get gas at gas stations, few food stores are open and what are open have few things left on the shelf.

If you make the call to stay and ride out a hurricane you are told OVER and OVER and OVER again that A) nobody is going to come help you in the midst of the storm because it's too dangerous and B) that you should stockpile enough food, water, batteries and any medical supplies to get you through a MINIMUM of five days because that's how long it typically takes for FEMA to get to you after the storm is over!

So for the love of God...stop with this silly nonsense that the Federal Government somehow "failed" the people of New Orleans because they were without food and water for days! FEMA did what it always does. The problem in New Orleans was that the locals prepared so poorly for the aftermath of the storm that they were out of food and water almost immediately in places like the Superdome. Why? Because Nagin sent tens of thousands of people there instead of getting them out of the city and then totally failed to have the supplies to sustain them. The truth is...the only supplies that WERE in the Superdome were put there by FEMA!

 

[Faun]

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

Ok, let's follow your hypothetical to it's logical conclusion. Nagin follows the plan .... somehow get hundreds of bus drivers to abandon their own families to bus folks out of New Orleans .... they follow the plan and drive to the north side of Lake Pontchartrain to wait for the storm to pass .... the hurricane follows them to the north and thousands more die, stuck in busses which can't escape the storm's path.

All that remains the same as what actually happened is righties' screaming Nagin's head on a pike.

LOL....why would the buses go north when that's the projected path of the storm? Most of the evacuees from New Orleans went west to Houston. You get more pathetic with each post where you try to excuse Nagin's incompetence, Faun.

And just to show that you're REALLY clueless...even going north and inexplicably staying in the path of the storm they would have been far safer than in New Orleans.

That was the plan you keep saying they should have followed. How quickly you abandon your own position once you hear how stupid it is.

 

[Faun]

Before hurricane Charlie hit the Fort Myers area most of the models had it making landfall up around Tampa. Funny thing though, Faun...local officials in Southwest Florida prepared like the storm might hit us. Now why would they do that? An even better question...WHY DIDN'T RAY NAGIN?

Why didn't you answer? Remind me.... how many days before Charley hiy Florida did they evacuate Miami-Dade, Broward & Palm Beach counties?

Still no answer to the question above??

What gives?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

For some reason, you keep writing about Nagin's actions before the storm, in spite of the fact that has been repeatedly pointed out to you that the issue is why emergency response teams took so long to help after the storm. You really need to understand that nobody in their right mind is going to defend Nagin. What you fail to understand is that there were thousands of American citizens stranded without food and water for days. American citizens were suffering and dying, and people in D.C didn't seem to give a rat's ass. If a disaster of this nature had occurred in Washington D.C., every federal agency in the country would have been on it in a New York second. FEMA, for example, responded to a disastrous flood, with no boats. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the only help I received after Katrina was from the Red Cross and the National Guard. FEMA did absolutely nothing for me over the 6 months that it took for me to get back on my feet. I had to borrow $50,000 from my brother to start rebuilding my house, because FEMA subcontractor's did not get around to sending an adjuster out to my house for 4 months for settlement of my flood insurance claim,.

Do you not understand the entire concept of WHY people evacuate in the face of a big hurricane? First of all the storm surge and high winds can kill you. Then there is the flooding from torrential rains that can kill you. But one of the main reasons to get out of the area is that there typically isn't power, many times you don't have running water, you usually can't get gas at gas stations, few food stores are open and what are open have few things left on the shelf.

If you make the call to stay and ride out a hurricane you are told OVER and OVER and OVER again that A) nobody is going to come help you in the midst of the storm because it's too dangerous and B) that you should stockpile enough food, water, batteries and any medical supplies to get you through a MINIMUM of five days because that's how long it typically takes for FEMA to get to you after the storm is over!

So for the love of God...stop with this silly nonsense that the Federal Government somehow "failed" the people of New Orleans because they were without food and water for days! FEMA did what it always does. The problem in New Orleans was that the locals prepared so poorly for the aftermath of the storm that they were out of food and water almost immediately in places like the Superdome. Why? Because Nagin sent tens of thousands of people there instead of getting them out of the city and then totally failed to have the supplies to sustain them. The truth is...the only supplies that WERE in the Superdome were put there by FEMA!

Ok, Old, you have made yourself perfectly clear. Because they were not evacuated, then nobody owed then any help.

You know, this is exactly what the conclusion that folks down there had. The feds are not going to do anything to help us, claiming that it was our own fault for being there. Well, thanks one hellavalot, Brownie! We didn't know that bad city planning was a capital crime committed by survivors in need of food, water and shelter. Maybe if it had happened in Haiti, or some other country, the feds would have at least sent aid.

 

[Oldstyle]

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

For some reason, you keep writing about Nagin's actions before the storm, in spite of the fact that has been repeatedly pointed out to you that the issue is why emergency response teams took so long to help after the storm. You really need to understand that nobody in their right mind is going to defend Nagin. What you fail to understand is that there were thousands of American citizens stranded without food and water for days. American citizens were suffering and dying, and people in D.C didn't seem to give a rat's ass. If a disaster of this nature had occurred in Washington D.C., every federal agency in the country would have been on it in a New York second. FEMA, for example, responded to a disastrous flood, with no boats. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the only help I received after Katrina was from the Red Cross and the National Guard. FEMA did absolutely nothing for me over the 6 months that it took for me to get back on my feet. I had to borrow $50,000 from my brother to start rebuilding my house, because FEMA subcontractor's did not get around to sending an adjuster out to my house for 4 months for settlement of my flood insurance claim,.

Do you not understand the entire concept of WHY people evacuate in the face of a big hurricane? First of all the storm surge and high winds can kill you. Then there is the flooding from torrential rains that can kill you. But one of the main reasons to get out of the area is that there typically isn't power, many times you don't have running water, you usually can't get gas at gas stations, few food stores are open and what are open have few things left on the shelf.

If you make the call to stay and ride out a hurricane you are told OVER and OVER and OVER again that A) nobody is going to come help you in the midst of the storm because it's too dangerous and B) that you should stockpile enough food, water, batteries and any medical supplies to get you through a MINIMUM of five days because that's how long it typically takes for FEMA to get to you after the storm is over!

So for the love of God...stop with this silly nonsense that the Federal Government somehow "failed" the people of New Orleans because they were without food and water for days! FEMA did what it always does. The problem in New Orleans was that the locals prepared so poorly for the aftermath of the storm that they were out of food and water almost immediately in places like the Superdome. Why? Because Nagin sent tens of thousands of people there instead of getting them out of the city and then totally failed to have the supplies to sustain them. The truth is...the only supplies that WERE in the Superdome were put there by FEMA!

Ok, Old, you have made yourself perfectly clear. Because they were not evacuated, then nobody owed then any help.

You know, this is exactly what the conclusion that folks down there had. The feds are not going to do anything to help us, claiming that it was our own fault for being there. Well, thanks one hellavalot, Brownie! We didn't know that bad city planning was a capital crime committed by survivors in need of food, water and shelter. Maybe if it had happened in Haiti, or some other country, the feds would have at least sent aid.

Who's fault is that you were "there" and didn't prepare for a killer storm? Michael Brown? His job was not to evacuate you before the storm...nor was his job to make sure you had sufficient food and water during and shortly after the storm. I'm sorry but it's not! That's YOUR job and the job of your local officials!

Why can't you get it through your head that the reason Katrina was such a disaster wasn't because FEMA reacted slowly...it was because you locals in New Orleans had your heads up your asses...and I'm sorry to say but acting that way in the face of a major hurricane CAN be something that kills you!

 

[Oldstyle]

Before hurricane Charlie hit the Fort Myers area most of the models had it making landfall up around Tampa. Funny thing though, Faun...local officials in Southwest Florida prepared like the storm might hit us. Now why would they do that? An even better question...WHY DIDN'T RAY NAGIN?

Why didn't you answer? Remind me.... how many days before Charley hiy Florida did they evacuate Miami-Dade, Broward & Palm Beach counties?

Still no answer to the question above??

What gives?

Why would they call for an evacuation from a storm that was barely a category 1 as it approached the Atlantic Coast of Florida? Do you not grasp the difference between a category 1 storm and a category 5 storm? Anyone that knows how hurricanes generally operate down here in the Gulf understands that hurricanes can "regenerate" over the much warmer Gulf waters and become much more powerful than they were in the Atlantic before they make landfall again.

 

[Oldstyle]

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

Ok, let's follow your hypothetical to it's logical conclusion. Nagin follows the plan .... somehow get hundreds of bus drivers to abandon their own families to bus folks out of New Orleans .... they follow the plan and drive to the north side of Lake Pontchartrain to wait for the storm to pass .... the hurricane follows them to the north and thousands more die, stuck in busses which can't escape the storm's path.

All that remains the same as what actually happened is righties' screaming Nagin's head on a pike.

LOL....why would the buses go north when that's the projected path of the storm? Most of the evacuees from New Orleans went west to Houston. You get more pathetic with each post where you try to excuse Nagin's incompetence, Faun.

And just to show that you're REALLY clueless...even going north and inexplicably staying in the path of the storm they would have been far safer than in New Orleans.

That was the plan you keep saying they should have followed. How quickly you abandon your own position once you hear how stupid it is.

How have I abandoned my position? The city of New Orleans had an emergency evacuation plan that recognized that a large percentage of the city did not own cars and therefore would have no means to evacuate if called on to do so. The solution to that was a plan that called for school buses to be used to transport those people out of the city. That plan was in place LONG before Katrina formed.

Yet when the city WAS threatened by a category 5 storm...Ray Nagin inexplicably didn't follow his own emergency evacuation plan! He didn't use the school buses! He left them sitting in bus yards to be destroyed by flood waters while at the last minute he told people to get rides from their neighbors or from other people at church. The only thing that was "abandoned" was the plan that was abandoned by Ray Nagin...something that you can't explain away.