Brootherhood Obama Leaps Into Action

[PixieStix]

I'm especially sorry for the police officers and their families.

becki....

I've been on this board long enough to recognize willful blindness....but how much pro-Islamofascism must this President reveal before the media, the public, reacts???


From his Cairo speech, throwing leaders who keep the peace in the Middle East under the bus so as to make room for the savages of al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood, to calling Nidal Hasan's treachery 'workplace violence' (just heard that he walked up and down shooting the wounded), to this display: punishing the Egyptian army for restraining these killers.....

How can this be allowed to go on?


"The army seems determined to decapitate the Middle East's oldest and arguably most resilient Islamist movement, to prevent it from preparing a political comeback after President Mohamed Mursi, one of its senior leaders, was ousted on July 3."
Yahoo! News Canada - Latest News & Headlines

Everyone understand what 'Islamist' means??

Burning Coptic churches......

Where are Obama's leanings?
Isn't it clear?



"Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."—Muslim Brotherhood


"The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 by Hasan al-Banna....Al-Banna based his ideas that Islam was not only a religious observance, but a comprehensive way of life, on the tenets of Wahhabism, better known today as "Islamism",... started performing terrorist acts inside of Egypt,..."
Bloody History of Muslim Brotherhood



Let's be very clear: Obama's tacit support of the Muslim Brotherhood must be seen as support for shari'a.
Say what he will.....this is what he wants for the Middle East.....at least.

Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood hate each other; trying to link the two is inappropriate.

Inappropriate?
Maybe they do hate each other because Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda
are vying for allahs favor.

Their hate for one another is nothing more than a power struggle, they still are allies against the infidel.

 

[irosie91]

I'm especially sorry for the police officers and their families.

becki....

I've been on this board long enough to recognize willful blindness....but how much pro-Islamofascism must this President reveal before the media, the public, reacts???


From his Cairo speech, throwing leaders who keep the peace in the Middle East under the bus so as to make room for the savages of al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood, to calling Nidal Hasan's treachery 'workplace violence' (just heard that he walked up and down shooting the wounded), to this display: punishing the Egyptian army for restraining these killers.....

How can this be allowed to go on?


"The army seems determined to decapitate the Middle East's oldest and arguably most resilient Islamist movement, to prevent it from preparing a political comeback after President Mohamed Mursi, one of its senior leaders, was ousted on July 3."
Yahoo! News Canada - Latest News & Headlines

Everyone understand what 'Islamist' means??

Burning Coptic churches......

Where are Obama's leanings?
Isn't it clear?



"Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."—Muslim Brotherhood


"The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 by Hasan al-Banna....Al-Banna based his ideas that Islam was not only a religious observance, but a comprehensive way of life, on the tenets of Wahhabism, better known today as "Islamism",... started performing terrorist acts inside of Egypt,..."
Bloody History of Muslim Brotherhood



Let's be very clear: Obama's tacit support of the Muslim Brotherhood must be seen as support for shari'a.
Say what he will.....this is what he wants for the Middle East.....at least.

Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood hate each other; trying to link the two is inappropriate.

I am fascinated------how do you know that Al Qaeida and the Muslim brotherhood
hate each other? I would have assumed that Hezbollah and Al qaeida would hate
each other based on the shiite/ sunni thing-------AND the Iranian/ arab thing-----but
those two seem to be allying in various places. Since you seem to know----can you
tell me the MB position on SAUDI ARABIA? It seems to me that Hezbollah
elements in Yemen ---have designs on Saudi arabia-----but I have never heard of
any information relating Hezbollah with a desire to attack the saudi royals

 

[irosie91]

Saying that Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood don't care for one another is neither a lie, nor an apology. I would be happy to provide as many sources as you'd like proving their mutual dislike of one another.

So....you'd like to be known as a fool in addition to 'liar'?

My pleasure.

"... a much more complicated relationship between the Brotherhood and al Qaeda..... Barry Rubin argues convincingly in The Muslim Brotherhood, an excellent compendium he edited, that in fact the Brotherhood has no problem with violence.

Rubin goes on to quote Rajab Hilal Hamida, a member of the Brotherhood in Egypt’s parliament:

From my point of view, bin Ladin, al-Zawahiri and al-Zarqawi are not terrorists in the sense accepted by some. I support all their activities, since they are a thorn in the side of the Americans and the Zionists. … [On the other hand,] he who kills Muslim citizens is neither a jihad fighter nor a terrorist, but a criminal murderer. We must call things by their proper names!

In other words, Hamida is not concerned with al Qaeda’s attacks against Americans or Jews. Their killing of other Muslims is what he finds objectionable. This should offer us small comfort.

Riedel is correct in saying that the Muslim Brotherhood has drawn the ire of al Qaeda’s leaders for being “too soft.” But this glosses over the many ideological similarities between the two organizations. They both want to conquer lands in the name of Islam and establish Sharia law everywhere they can. They simply disagree about how to best accomplish that goal. Osama bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri, who were recruited by the Brotherhood as young men, did not leave the organization because they disagreed with its long-term goals. They were simply unwilling to compromise at a tactical level..... This does not mean the Muslim Brotherhood eschews violence (as illustrated by the quotes above). It simply means that the Brotherhood is more practical than al Qaeda when it comes to achieving its long-term goals, and is willing to use non-violent tactics as well as violence.

Moreover, the rivalry between al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood does not preclude cooperation on the world stage. Here are just a few examples, chosen from many.

Osama bin Laden’s first real mentor was Abdullah Azzam, who was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Azzam had his own differences with some Brotherhood members and practices. But Azzam’s teachings are still widely cited by jihadists today, three decades after he first preached jihad against the Soviets in Afghanistan. And it was Azzam’s connections to Brotherhood organizations in Pakistan that gave bin Laden a firm footing in South Asia.

In the mid-1990s, Osama bin Laden was taken in by another member of the international Brotherhood, Hassan al Turabi. When bin Laden could no longer live in Saudi Arabia, Turabi brought him to Sudan. There, Turabi built a network of connections between various nefarious actors and introduced bin Laden to many of them. Turabi was probably one of the three most influential Brotherhood ideologues at the time – that is, while he was mentoring and sheltering bin Laden and al Qaeda.

Then there is Sheikh Abdul Majeed al Zindani, who remains a prominent Muslim Brotherhood cleric in Yemen. The U.S. Treasury Department has designated Zindani a terrorist because of his close, decades-long relationship with Osama bin Laden. Zindani has frequently recruited jihadists for al Qaeda.

And just this week CNN reported that the Saudis found in a recent investigation that the Muslim Brotherhood maintains ties to al Qaeda. Some members of the Brotherhood have “historic sympathies and connections” with al Qaeda, according to Saudi officials. Thus, Brotherhood money “occasionally” finds its way into al Qaeda’s hands.
The Muslim Brotherhood is No Friend | The Weekly Standard




OK....now you're a fool as well as a liar.


Get lost.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a general name for a number of regional organizations that largely operate independently from one another. Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood supports armed conflict in the face of occupation. Thus they are fine with attacks against US soldiers in Iraq, and with Hamas strikes against Israeli defense forces. It's also worth pointing out that while they are ideologically ok with targeting US forces in Iraq Muslim Brotherhood fighters in Iraq have been virtually non-existent and the iraqi branch of the group actively participates in the standard political process. in fact, Al Qaeda in Iraq has blamed the Brotherhood as the number one reason why they haven't been able to succeed within the country.

They also supported the struggle in the 80's in Syria.

That however is a big difference from al Qaeda's ideological structures which support international jihad, and for some affiliates includes sectarian violence, the targeting of civilians and takfiri ideologies. All of which the Brotherhood stands against.

Furthermore, Al Qaeda hates the Brotherhood because they engage in the political process instead of waging jihad. Al Qaeda is categorically against all forms of political participation and condemns those who partake in them (which would include all regional branches of the Muslim Brotherhood including Hamas in Gaza).

All of what I have said is corroborated by West Point's Combating Terrorism Center. More specifically you can find everything that I have posted in this report: Self Inflicted Wounds | Combating Terrorism Center at West Point

You haven't been arguing with me, you've been arguing with counter terrorism experts from West Point.

From page 167 of the report:

In a series of tapes and writings, Zawahiri savaged Hamas and the Egyptian MB for their participation in elections and public life. Al‐Baghdadi and Abu Hamza identifed the MB as the driving force behind the setbacks of the jihad in Iraq, pointing not only to the Iraqi Islamic Party (an MB affiliate), but also to a wide range of other Sunni Islamist adversaries lumped together under the MB label.

From the former Supreme guide of the Muslim Brotherhood:

We—the MB—reject completely the methods and actions by al‐Qa’ida
network.
‐‐ MB Deputy Supreme Guide Mohammed Habib

Head of Al Qaeda Ayman al-Zawahiri even wrote a book (entitled Bitter Harvests) as to why he disliked the Muslim Brotherhood.

From the report (page 170):

Bitter Harvest offers the template for a standard Salafi jihadist bill of complaints about the MB over the last two decades. In the Salafi jihadist telling, the MB aligned with the West in Afghanistan instead of the Taliban. In Algeria in the 1990s, the MB figure Mahfouz Nahnah aligned with the military against the Armed Islamic Group. In Iraq, the MB’s Iraqi Islamic Party (IIP) aligned with the United States and joined the political process while under occupation. In Jordan, the MB sided with the Hashemite monarchy despite its strategic alliance with the United States and good relations with Israel. In Malaysia, it aligned with Anwar Ibrahim at a time when more radical groups viewed him as part of the regime they despised. In Palestine, the MB (in the form of Hamas) was accused of protecting the Jews from al‐Qa’ida.


Finally, it is worth pointing out that the Muslim Brotherhood has publicly condemned virtually every single one of Al Qaeda's attacks, which directly counters your above insinuations.

What are AL Qaeda's attacks? where? when? who?

lots of people "condemned" 9-11-01 with their fingers crossed
behind their backs. We have been urged to believe that the entire
UMMAH condemned the Taliban for bombing the Buddhist art in
Afghanistan too---------

 

[Osomir]

they still are allies against the infidel.

No they aren't. When an Al-Qaeda affiliate tried to declare an Islamic state in Gaza Hamas didn't respond by welcoming them, they responded by marching into their mosque and gunning them all down.

Not much of an alliance.

 

[Osomir]

What are AL Qaeda's attacks? where? when? who?

lots of people "condemned" 9-11-01 with their fingers crossed
behind their backs. We have been urged to believe that the entire
UMMAH condemned the Taliban for bombing the Buddhist art in
Afghanistan too---------

If you'd like more information the source I posted from West Point gives fairly detailed examples.

 

[Moonglow]

Obama had Brotherhood in his heart from day one....with representatives of the Brotherhood right in the front row at the Cairo speech.

Obama has empowered the Brotherhood at every opportunity...

Now, when the only stabilizing factor in Egypt...the army...takes over, Obama leaps into action!

These 'protesters' attacked Egyptians, burned Coptic Churches....and Obama rushes to defend the Brotherhood:





1. "Obama condemns Egypt over violence, cancels joint military exercise

2. CAIRO – President Barack Obama strongly condemned Egypt’s interim government Thursday, saying the United States was canceling a planned joint military operation in protest over violent clashes that left at least 525 dead.

3. "We deplore violence against civilians,"
[Bulletin: Coptic Christians are civilians....]




4. Hundreds of angry Morsi supporters attacked and set fire to the offices of the governor of Cairo's Giza district ...They threw Molotov cocktails and fired live ammunition into the building as government workers fled, according to security sources.
[Someone better tell Obama....]



5. The Muslim Brotherhood also announced plans to hold a march in Cairo, and pledged to bring down the military-backed interim government.
[That outta make Obama happy....]

6. .... the Islamist organization,...Churches were attacked in the Nile Valley towns of Minya, Sohag and Assiut, where Christians escaped across the roof into a neighboring building after a mob surrounded and hurled bricks at their place of worship, state news agency MENA said."
Obama condemns Egypt over violence, cancels joint military exercise - World News



When are American Leftists going to connect the dots and realize who they put in charge????





Remember this:
"Egyptian lawmakers from the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood are expected to attend President Obama's highly anticipated speech to the Muslim world Thursday in Cairo..... attendance of the Brotherhood members already is stirring some criticism from conservatives in the U.S. who say they do not represent the kind of moderate Muslims Obama should be appealing to.

...."What kind of signal are we sending?"
Muslim Brotherhood Members to Attend Obama's Cairo Speech | Fox News

Surely someone as intelligent as you should realize that Obama is not the catalysts behind the US support of the Muslim brother hood in Egypt.

When are American Leftists going to connect the dots and realize who they put in charge????

It is surely no coincidence that two American senators with the “Obama handprints” all over them are pulling towards the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. After all, the same two senators support terrorist and sectarian forces which are fighting against secular Syria. Therefore, John McCain and Lindsey Graham are on the side of terrorist and sectarian forces which kill and cleanse in Syria; just like they are siding with the Muslim Brotherhood whereby militants from this organization are persecuting Coptic Christians.

Egypt and US: Graham and McCain favor the Muslim Brotherhood on the coattails of Obama | Modern Tokyo Times

The Senate foreign relations committee head Bob Corker(R) is the head of the committee and makes the decisions on aid and recognition of countries friendly to the US

Corker, the top Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has opposed efforts to suspend aid to Egypt, calling such action “terrible public policy” last month on the Senate floor.

So you see it is not just Obama calling all the shots of all actions by and in the US of A.

Think logically and use some common sense when attacking anyone.

 

[Osomir]

I am fascinated------how do you know that Al Qaeida and the Muslim brotherhood
hate each other?

I listed several sources, including the head of Al Qaeda's own wiritngs, caputred battlefield documents from Osama bin Laden, statements from the ISI in Iraq, and the detailed analysis from West Point's own counter terror experts.

I would have assumed that Hezbollah and Al qaeida would hate
each other based on the shiite/ sunni thing-------AND the Iranian/ arab thing

They do. It is also another point of contention between Al Qaeda and the Brotherhood. For the most part the Brotherhood doesn't mind working with Shia Islamists IE Iranian and Hezbollah support for Hamas. Al Qaeda Central aside most Al Qaeda affiliates are fairly takfiri and thus strongly dislike shia groups. As evidence I'd point to the wide scale sectarian violence in Iraq at the hands of ISI (AQIM), and Al Nusra's declaration that Hezbollah was going to be their primary target in Syria.

those two seem to be allying in various places.

Where?

Since you seem to know----can you tell me the MB position on SAUDI ARABIA? It seems to me that Hezbollah elements in Yemen ---have designs on Saudi arabia-----but I have never heard of any information relating Hezbollah with a desire to attack the saudi royals

I'm not familiar with active Hezbollah cells in Saudi Arabia. What there are though are Houthi rebel movements in the south that straddle the Saudi Arabian / Yemeni border. Al Qaeda's tactics against Saudi Arabia have been mixed. Some think Saudi Arabia should be attacked like any other apostate regime, while others want to keep Saudi Arabia stable for now and strike at it later. As for AQAP in Yemen, they have actively targeted Houthi groups, though they also tend to attemt to limit civilian casualties when possible so as not to turn the public against them which has happened to most Al Qaeda affiliates in their regions of operation.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I am fascinated------how do you know that Al Qaeida and the Muslim brotherhood
hate each other?

I listed several sources, including the head of Al Qaeda's own wiritngs, caputred battlefield documents from Osama bin Laden, statements from the ISI in Iraq, and the detailed analysis from West Point's own counter terror experts.

I would have assumed that Hezbollah and Al qaeida would hate
each other based on the shiite/ sunni thing-------AND the Iranian/ arab thing

They do. It is also another point of contention between Al Qaeda and the Brotherhood. For the most part the Brotherhood doesn't mind working with Shia Islamists IE Iranian and Hezbollah support for Hamas. Al Qaeda Central aside most Al Qaeda affiliates are fairly takfiri and thus strongly dislike shia groups. As evidence I'd point to the wide scale sectarian violence in Iraq at the hands of ISI (AQIM), and Al Nusra's declaration that Hezbollah was going to be their primary target in Syria.

those two seem to be allying in various places.

Where?

Since you seem to know----can you tell me the MB position on SAUDI ARABIA? It seems to me that Hezbollah elements in Yemen ---have designs on Saudi arabia-----but I have never heard of any information relating Hezbollah with a desire to attack the saudi royals

I'm not familiar with active Hezbollah cells in Saudi Arabia. What there are though are Houthi rebel movements in the south that straddle the Saudi Arabian / Yemeni border. Al Qaeda's tactics against Saudi Arabia have been mixed. Some think Saudi Arabia should be attacked like any other apostate regime, while others want to keep Saudi Arabia stable for now and strike at it later. As for AQAP in Yemen, they have actively targeted Houthi groups, though they also tend to attemt to limit civilian casualties when possible so as not to turn the public against them which has happened to most Al Qaeda affiliates in their regions of operation.

Both groups are Islamofascists.

And differences between them are distinctions without differences.

 

[irosie91]

it is ---specifically in YEMEN---that I believe---that there is some alliance
between hezbollah and Al quieda------the alliance being formed as a
preparation for an attack on Saudi arabia -------afterall----Osama's
cousins live there just a guess on my part------happy yemenis ---
going hand in hand------to the land of the two mosques for the glory
of their countryman----OSAMA -----the few yemeni shiites ---can host
lots of farsi speaking hezbollah guys without killing them----and they
seem to be right on the border......convenient

 

[Osomir]

Both groups are Islamofascists.

And differences between them are distinctions without differences.

Every single professional counter terrorism expert disagrees with you.

 

[Osomir]

it is ---specifically in YEMEN---that I believe---that there is some alliance
between hezbollah and Al quieda------the alliance being formed as a
preparation for an attack on Saudi arabia -------afterall----Osama's
cousins live there just a guess on my part------happy yemenis ---
going hand in hand------to the land of the two mosques for the glory
of their countryman----OSAMA -----the few yemeni shiites ---can host
lots of farsi speaking hezbollah guys without killing them----and they
seem to be right on the border......convenient

Do you have a source for their cooperation? AQAP has historically attacked the Shia Houthi movement along the border.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Both groups are Islamofascists.

And differences between them are distinctions without differences.

Every single professional counter terrorism expert disagrees with you.

Face the truth.

Or don't.

 

[Osomir]

Both groups are Islamofascists.

And differences between them are distinctions without differences.

Every single professional counter terrorism expert disagrees with you.

Face the truth.

Or don't.

You should try living by your own advice

Though I suppose you technically do and have simply chosen: "don't".

Have fun with that; let me know if you ever want to actually discuss any of the issues.

 

[irosie91]

it is ---specifically in YEMEN---that I believe---that there is some alliance
between hezbollah and Al quieda------the alliance being formed as a
preparation for an attack on Saudi arabia -------afterall----Osama's
cousins live there just a guess on my part------happy yemenis ---
going hand in hand------to the land of the two mosques for the glory
of their countryman----OSAMA -----the few yemeni shiites ---can host
lots of farsi speaking hezbollah guys without killing them----and they
seem to be right on the border......convenient

Do you have a source for their cooperation? AQAP has historically attacked the Shia Houthi movement along the border.

Just a hunch----based on a history of shifting alliances in the history of islamic
warfere and the fact that ----not long ago some muslims from
south east asia ----started telling me that the SHIITE/SUNNI rift is a myth---
one of those bits of propaganda invented by the 'zionist-controlled-cia'

Also----yemenis tend to get cozy with each other---lately---no matter
what their "backgrounds"-----at least in the USA ---sometimes---now ---
more than before. My sense is that the "them and us" thing shifts
easily, If the sunnis of Lebanon can kiss farsi speaking hezbollah-
ites--------anyone can love anyone. The very first "YOU COULD CUT
IT WITH A KNIFE" palpable hatred I ever saw was that between
Iranians and Arabs------long ago----like 45 years ago----Young men
who had not previously met. DAGGERS FLEW OUT OF THEIR EYES
whenever they accidentally looked at each other

my information that Hezbollah is in Yemen----comes from a yemeni
sunni ---via a yemeni kaffir (ie a kaffir of ---remote yemen
connection-----but enough to endear him to local yemeni sunnis and
facilitate conversation as to ----what is going on----"back home"

 

[irosie91]

Both groups are Islamofascists.

And differences between them are distinctions without differences.

Every single professional counter terrorism expert disagrees with you.

Osomir-----are you stating it is not true that BOTH GROUPS are
islamo fascists ? When I was young and silly-----I used to
believe that SHIITES were not islamo fascists-----because
when I was young and silly------the only shiites I knew were
Iranians -----from Teheran and it was BEFORE THE
GLORIOUS CULTURAL REVOLUTION (well I did know one
shiite from New Dehli and HE was an islamo fascists----but he
was the only one) I saw shiites as THE VICTIMS of fascist
sunnis----------I was that silly. Of course there are distinctions
between sunnis and shiites-------which is why they hate each other---
but when it comes to enacting "TERRORISM" ------I agree that
the distinctions are just a matter of when and where. In what
aspect do the counter-terrorism people you know see more
significant distinctions?

 

[skye]

Food for thought ..... I would not be surprised if these claims are true.... in fact I would be surprised if they are not true.




Malik Obama’s oversight of the Muslim Brotherhood’s international investments is one reason for the Obama administration’s support of the Muslim Brotherhood, according to an Egyptian report citing the vice president of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Egypt, Tehani al-Gebali

In a news report on Egyptian television of a Gebali speech, translated by researcher Walid Shoebat, a former Palestinian Liberation Organization operative, Gebali said she would like “to inform the American people that their president’s brother Obama is one of the architects of the major investments of the Muslim Brotherhood.”



Malik Obama, best man at the wedding of Barack H. Obama, Oct. 3, 1992
Read more at Obama?s brother linked to Muslim Brotherhood

 

[Osomir]

Just a hunch----based on a history of shifting alliances in the history of islamic
warfere and the fact that ----not long ago some muslims from
south east asia ----started telling me that the SHIITE/SUNNI rift is a myth---
one of those bits of propaganda invented by the 'zionist-controlled-cia'

It isn't a myth. It is true that Osama bin-Laden and Al-Qaeda Central's core ideological structures do not support such a rift. bin-Laden was more of a pan-Islamist than people tend to assume. He wasn't a takfiri. Al Qaeda's main affiliate though (Al Qaeda in Iraq, now the Islamic State of Iraq) is very sectarian, and always has been. Their activities are characterized by widespread sectarian violence much to bin-Laden's former frustration. Likewise the TTP (Pakistani Taliban) has been pretty sectarian in its dealings as well, and even AQIM has been very takfiri (could be seen in their destruction of Sufi religious shrines during the conflict in northern Mali).

So while it is true that the rift is sometimes over stated in the sense that sunni and shia groups can and do work together (hezbollah and Hamas for example), many Al Qaeda affiliates tend to be fairly takfiri in their orientation and thus sectarian.

 

[Osomir]

Osomir-----are you stating it is not true that BOTH GROUPS are
islamo fascists ?

my primary response was to her assertion that they lack any significant differences between them, which no counter terrorist expert would agree with.

But to a lesser extent i'd say yes to your question as well. They are both Islamist, but that have completely different understandings of things like Jihad, and how to structure states, whether or not one should participate in democracy, jurisprudential schools of thought, takfiri understandings, etc. Their core ideologies are very different and it has led to a lot of active animosity between groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and international jihadis.

 

[Osomir]

As far as Yemen is concerned, I found this: http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/CTC_False_Foundation3.pdf report to be a pretty good one rooted in over a year of on the ground analysis.

 

[irosie91]

something wrong with me----I cannot access it what does it say---
and who was dumb enough to walk around in Yemen?