British police still not recording ethnicity of violent rapists for fear they will be accused of racism in identifying violent rapists....

[JoeB131]

1) our societal destruction and family destruction happened in the 1960s under the Great Society, it took them 80 years to catch up because of World War 2.

How does that work? Frankly, if anything, WWII should make Europeans more violent, not less.

The EU has on average a higher illegitimacy rate than the US has. France has on of 60%. Nope, this isn't the problem you think it is.

2) our democrat party attacks the police...don't worry, the Europeans are attacking the police now too....

I'm not worried.... if their cops are misbehaving, they should be attacked.

What amuses me is that you go on all day about how you NEEDS YOUR GUNS to FIGHTS YOU THE GOVERNMENT.. but when presented with ACTUAL Government misconduct by police, you are quick to defend them. Why Chauvin died from a drug overdose, not having a knee to his neck for nine-minutes!!!!

3) Our democrat party releases our most violent criminals over and over again with a special place in their hearts for repeat gun offenders...

We lock up 2 million people... we are nowhere near "letting them all go." Most other G-7 nations don't lock people up unless they are really dangerous.

 

[2aguy]

How does that work? Frankly, if anything, WWII should make Europeans more violent, not less.

The EU has on average a higher illegitimacy rate than the US has. France has on of 60%. Nope, this isn't the problem you think it is.



I'm not worried.... if their cops are misbehaving, they should be attacked.

What amuses me is that you go on all day about how you NEEDS YOUR GUNS to FIGHTS YOU THE GOVERNMENT.. but when presented with ACTUAL Government misconduct by police, you are quick to defend them. Why Chauvin died from a drug overdose, not having a knee to his neck for nine-minutes!!!!



We lock up 2 million people... we are nowhere near "letting them all go." Most other G-7 nations don't lock people up unless they are really dangerous.

When you show me actual police misconduct I will support prosecuting the police.......arresting violent criminals is not misconduct.

The democrats release the most violent criminals over and over again. It is that tiny population of criminals creating our gun violence and our gun murder problem...and yet they keep releasing them..

 

[JoeB131]

When you show me actual police misconduct I will support prosecuting the police.......arresting violent criminals is not misconduct.

Tamir Rice
Laquan Mcdonald
George Floyd

 

[yidnar]

still safer to travel in any British city than an American one...

did you mean safer than the violent dem controlled cities .

 

[yidnar]

The United Kingdom is 87% white compared to 70% for the US... so, nope...

It's the guns, stupid.


Tell us how not racist you are, that shit never gets old.

if its the guns why are so many gun owners law abiding citizens ?

 

[TheParser]

Older Brits are not astonished by the crime increase.

Way back in the 1960s, a politician (Mr. E. Powell) made a controversial speech in which he very dramatically predicted that immigration would produce much unpleasantness in the coming decades.

 

[Nova78]

England is a cesspool, polluted like America

 

[2aguy]

Tamir Rice
Laquan Mcdonald
George Floyd

So....maybe two out of millions of interactions....got it.....and floyd died from a drug overdose....

Laquan had a knife, was an asshat...

How about you find some innocent, law abiding people killed by the police with premeditation...how about we start there...

Tamir Rice, the one with the fake pistol...

Again, lets get to the ones where the non-criminal is killed.....where there isn't a fake pistol iinvolved...how about we start there...

 

[2aguy]

Older Brits are not astonished by the crime increase.

Way back in the 1960s, a politician (Mr. E. Powell) made a controversial speech in which he very dramatically predicted that immigration would produce much unpleasantness in the coming decades.

Also check out "Life at the Bottom," a book that looks at the poor in Britain and the destruction created by their welfare system...

 

[BrokeLoser]

Yup, you've been saying this crap for years, but we have 19000 homicides a year and they have 600.

Funny how that works.

Do 100 million dark people reside there?
Asking for a friend.

The United Kingdom is 87% white compared to 70% for the US... so, nope...

It's the guns, stupid.

Hold on….so autonomous guns are committing the murders in America?
How many guns are incarcerated for homicide?

 

[JoeB131]

if its the guns why are so many gun owners law abiding citizens ?

I wouldn't know.. A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy. 83% of murder victims know their killer...

Now, yeah, statistically, most guns aren't used in Suicides and Homicides. Most planes in the air in 2001 didn't crash into buildings, either, but we still tightened shit up after a couple of them did.

42,000 Americans die of gun violence every year. That's like 12 9/11 attacks. Every year.

 

[JoeB131]

So....maybe two out of millions of interactions....got it.....and floyd died from a drug overdose....

You are half right. The number of these cases are small... but you wouldn't want to fly on an airline that only has a few crashes, would you? You wouldn't want to eat a product that is occasionally poisoned. So why would you want police that shoot innocent people only a few times? Oh, that's right. They aren't white.

A jury found that Chauvin killed him, as did three medical examiners. So either Chauvin is the unluckiest bastard in the world or the guiltiest bastard in the world... I'm going with the latter.

Laquan had a knife, was an asshat...

Actually, he was a mentally ill child who had been mishandled by DCFS for years. The "knife" was a legal pocket knife that would be issued to any boy scout. It certainly didn't justify shooting him SIXTEEN FUCKING TIMES when he was lying on the ground.

How about you find some innocent, law abiding people killed by the police with premeditation...how about we start there...

Sorry, man, Pre-meditation isn't an issue here.

Okay, Philandro Castille. A legal CCA holder who was shot by a cop in his car with his family in the back seat.
Botham Jean, shot in his own living room by a cop who got confused as to what floor she was on.

Tamir Rice, the one with the fake pistol...

The word you are looking for is TOY. Children play with toys in the park. Tamir was a child. He was in a park. He was playing with a toy. This isn't fucking complicated.

What we did find out was the officer who shot him was dismissed from a Suburban Police Department for mental instability. In fact, a safety officer had to disarm him on a range during a firing exercise. Cleveland scooped him right up.

Again, lets get to the ones where the non-criminal is killed.....where there isn't a fake pistol iinvolved...how about we start there...

100 million Americans have a police record. Do you really want the cops to have carte blanche to shoot all of them?

 

[Vagabond63]

And yet they are becoming more, not less violent....their social welfare state has finally reached the point that it is generating violent criminals at a rate they can't control anymore....

Complete drivel from 2aGuy, as usual.

 

[Vagabond63]

No....they had the destruction of World War two that slowed down their cultural destruction...

Our welfare state was created after WW2, against the wishes of the Conservative right wing in our country and they've been trying to sabotage it every chance they get.

England is a cesspool, polluted like America

Sadly, it's getting that way because of decades of successive Conservative "govermnents".

 

[2aguy]

Our welfare state was created after WW2, against the wishes of the Conservative right wing in our country and they've been trying to sabotage it every chance they get.

Sadly, it's getting that way because of decades of successive Conservative "govermnents".

Yeah....left wingers have trashed your country, are now focusing on destroying your police...but it is Conservative Governments at fault......?

 

[2aguy]

I wouldn't know.. A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy. 83% of murder victims know their killer...

Now, yeah, statistically, most guns aren't used in Suicides and Homicides. Most planes in the air in 2001 didn't crash into buildings, either, but we still tightened shit up after a couple of them did.

42,000 Americans die of gun violence every year. That's like 12 9/11 attacks. Every year.

Kellerman who did the study that came up with the 43 times more likely myth, was forced to retract that study and to do the research over when other academics pointed out how flawed his methods were....he then changed the 43 times number to 2.7, but he was still using flawed data to get even that number.....

Below is the study where he changed the number from 43 to 2.7 and below that is the explanation as to why that number isn't even accurate.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506

After controlling for these characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7;

------------

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-conten...ack-of-Public-Health-Research-on-Firearms.pdf

3. The Incredibly Flawed Public Health Research Guns in the Home At a town hall at George Mason University in January 2016, President Obama said, “If you look at the statistics, there's no doubt that there are times where somebody who has a weapon has been able to protect themselves and scare off an intruder or an assailant, but what is more often the case is that they may not have been able to protect themselves, but they end up being the victim of the weapon that they purchased themselves.”25 The primary proponents of this claim are Arthur Kellermann and his many coauthors. A gun, they have argued, is less likely to be used in killing a criminal than it is to be used in killing someone the gun owner knows. In one of the most well-known public health studies on firearms, Kellermann’s “case sample” consists of 444 homicides that occurred in homes. His control group had 388 individuals who lived near the deceased victims and were of the same sex, race, and age range. After learning about the homicide victims and control subjects—whether they owned a gun, had a drug or alcohol problem, etc.—these authors attempted to see if the probability of a homicide correlated with gun ownership. Amazingly these studies assume that if someone died from a gun shot, and a gun was owned in the home, that it was the gun in the home that killed that person. The paper is clearly misleading, as it fails to report that in only 8 of these 444 homicide cases was the gun that had been kept in the home the murder weapon.Moreover, the number of criminals stopped with a gun is much higher than the number killed in defensive gun uses. In fact, the attacker is killed in fewer than 1 out of every 1,000 defensive gun uses. Fix either of these data errors and the results are reversed. To demonstrate, suppose that we use the same statistical method—with a matching control group—to do a study on the efficacy of hospital care. Assume that we collect data just as these authors did, compiling a list of all the people who died in a particular county over the period of a year. Then we ask their relatives whether they had been admitted to the hospital during the previous year. We also put together a control sample consisting of neighbors who are part of the same sex, race, and age group. Then we ask these men and women whether they have been in a hospital during the past year. My bet is that those who spent time in hospitals are much more likely to have died.


Nine Myths Of Gun Control

Myth #6 "A homeowner is 43 times as likely to be killed or kill a family member as an intruder"

To suggest that science has proven that defending oneself or one's family with a gun is dangerous, gun prohibitionists repeat Dr. Kellermann's long discredited claim: "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder." [17] This fallacy , fabricated using tax dollars, is one of the most misused slogans of the anti-self-defense lobby.

The honest measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected not Kellermann's burglar or rapist body count.

Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator. [3]

Any study, such as Kellermann' "43 times" fallacy, that only counts bodies will expectedly underestimate the benefits of gun a thousand fold.

Think for a minute. Would anyone suggest that the only measure of the benefit of law enforcement is the number of people killed by police? Of course not. The honest measure of the benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved by deaths and injuries averted, and the property protected. 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun. [2]

Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times," [18] but he persisted in discredited methodology. He used a method that cannot distinguish between "cause" and "effect." His method would be like finding more diet drinks in the refrigerators of fat people and then concluding that diet drinks "cause" obesity.


Also, he studied groups with high rates of violent criminality, alcoholism, drug addiction, abject poverty, and domestic abuse .


From such a poor and violent study group he attempted to generalize his findings to normal homes

Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.


-----


Public Health and Gun Control: A Review



Since at least the mid-1980s, Dr. Kellermann (and associates), whose work had been heavily-funded by the CDC, published a series of studies purporting to show that persons who keep guns in the home are more likely to be victims of homicide than those who don¹t.

In a 1986 NEJM paper, Dr. Kellermann and associates, for example, claimed their "scientific research" proved that defending oneself or one¹s family with a firearm in the home is dangerous and counter productive, claiming "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder."8

In a critical review and now classic article published in the March 1994 issue of the Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia (JMAG), Dr. Edgar Suter, Chairman of Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research (DIPR), found evidence of "methodologic and conceptual errors," such as prejudicially truncated data and the listing of "the correct methodology which was described but never used by the authors."5

Moreover, the gun control researchers failed to consider and underestimated the protective benefits of guns.

Dr. Suter writes: "The true measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives and medical costs saved, the injuries prevented, and the property protected ‹ not the burglar or rapist body count.

Since only 0.1 - 0.2 percent of defensive uses of guns involve the death of the criminal, any study, such as this, that counts criminal deaths as the only measure of the protective benefits of guns will expectedly underestimate the benefits of firearms by a factor of 500 to 1,000."5

In 1993, in his landmark and much cited NEJM article (and the research, again, heavily funded by the CDC), Dr. Kellermann attempted to show again that guns in the home are a greater risk to the victims than to the assailants.4 Despite valid criticisms by reputable scholars of his previous works (including the 1986 study), Dr. Kellermann ignored the criticisms and again used the same methodology.

He also used study populations with disproportionately high rates of serious psychosocial dysfunction from three selected state counties, known to be unrepresentative of the general U.S. population.

For example,

53 percent of the case subjects had a history of a household member being arrested,

31 percent had a household history of illicit drug use, 32 percent had a household member hit or hurt in a family fight, and

17 percent had a family member hurt so seriously in a domestic altercation that prompt medical attention was required.
Moreover, both the case studies and control groups in this analysis had a very high incidence of financial instability.

In fact, in this study, gun ownership, the supposedly high risk factor for homicide was not one of the most strongly associated factors for being murdered.

Drinking, illicit drugs, living alone, history of family violence, living in a rented home were all greater individual risk factors for being murdered than a gun in the home. One must conclude there is no basis to apply the conclusions of this study to the general population.

All of these are factors that, as Dr. Suter pointed out, "would expectedly be associated with higher rates of violence and homicide."5

It goes without saying, the results of such a study on gun homicides, selecting this sort of unrepresentative population sample, nullify the authors' generalizations, and their preordained, conclusions can not be extrapolated to the general population.

Moreover, although the 1993 New England Journal of Medicine study purported to show that the homicide victims were killed with a gun ordinarily kept in the home, the fact is that as Kates and associates point out 71.1 percent of the victims were killed by assailants who did not live in the victims¹ household using guns presumably not kept in that home.6

 

[Mac-7]

Laquan Mcdonald
George Floyd

In order of appearance Tamar Rice was shot after pointing a real looking airsoft pistol at police officers

its regretable but understandable

Laquan McDonald originally came to the attention of the police because he was breaking into cars and was wielding a knife

and of course Floyd was a crackhead passing counterfeit $20 bills

 

[Vagabond63]

Yeah....left wingers have trashed your country, are now focusing on destroying your police...but it is Conservative Governments at fault......?

Fair point. Compared to your Fascist/neo-nazi Republican party, our Right wing Conservative party does appear a bit "left wing" I suppose.

 

[JoeB131]

Kellerman who did the study that came up with the 43 times more likely myth, was forced to retract that study and to do the research over when other academics pointed out how flawed his methods were....he then changed the 43 times number to 2.7, but he was still using flawed data to get even that number.....

Nope. He clarified that of those 43 people killed by guns in the home, 2.7 were murdered by other household members. There rest either died by accidents or because they killed themselves.

in short, the gun in the home was 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

I've known three people who died from gun violence in my life. One was a woman killed by her husband during an argument, the other two were suicides.

 

[JoeB131]

In order of appearance Tamar Rice was shot after pointing a real looking airsoft pistol at police officers

its regretable but understandable

Except it was a toy, and it wasn't in his hand when it was shot, much less being pointed.

Laquan McDonald originally came to the attention of the police because he was breaking into cars and was wielding a knife

He was breaking into a truck to keep warm because he was homeless. That didn't justify shooting him 16 times.

and of course Floyd was a crackhead passing counterfeit $20 bills

Again, which rationalizes using deadly force, how? You confiscate the fake 20, you write him a summons. Done.