Breaking: Obama To Address Nation Tonight. Will Bypass Congress & Invoke 14th Amendmt

[MaggieMae]

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

Red herring...Non sequitur.

Nobody is questioning the validity of federal debt....Just the size of it.

Which will be dealt with immediately thereafter. D'Oh...

Nobody is questioning that the size of the debt or suggesting that it should go away. It simply should not be any part of this particular issue for logical reasons.

 

[JakeStarkey]

More Breaking News Just In:


Speech Will Be Just 18 Minutes

Highlights will be according to CNN: President will say:

Number 1. United States Is In Imminent Threat Of Default

Number 2. Congress Has Reached A Stalemate Forcing President To Bypass Congress And Take Matters Into Own Hands

In other words he is fixing to usurp the Constitution just to save his reelection bid for a second term. Wolf Blitzer just stated this is a serious dangerous move from the president and will instill fear amongst the American people. This is Wolf saying this now and he is flabbergasted (astonished). Anyone remember the Reichstag Fire and decree Hitler used to his advantage?

I pray Wolf is wrong, period. I cannot imagine your hero, Obama, using the 14th. If so, he has to be opposed politically while isolating you wing nuts on the far, far right. You are a potentially far greater threat than the president right now, but it sounds if he may be joining you wingos in loonyville.

 

[MaggieMae]

Provide any evidence of your claim. As to the President, he has no power to raise the debt limit, that is solely a function of Congress, and specifically must originate in the House. The 14th Amendment provides no Constitutional authority for him to usurp the Power of Congress.

Which claim?

Reagan violated the Constitution at least twice, seriously, with Iran Contra.

Bush violated the Constitution with his order to torture prisoners, suspending Habeas on both foreign and domestic captures and easedropping on private citizens.

And the 14th..

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

That basically covers it. But it's doubtful that he would use it until after August 2nd.

Reagan was NEVER connected to Iran Contra even after the Dems in Congress claimed they could. Further Iran Contra was not a violation of Congressional orders.

Weapons were sold to Israel legally. Israel sold said weapons through private citizens and gave the money to Oliver North and Admiral Pointdexter. Once Israel took possession of said weapons what happened to them and any money generated by Israel no longer belongs to the US Government. If a foreign Government donates money to pay for something then the order by Congress that no tax payers money be used is not violated.

As for Bush he ordered no torture. Waterboarding which is the only claim you have to torture, was not illegal until Holder made it so in 2009. In fact it was practiced on our own troops in training cycles.

Oh...My...God...Is there any point in discussing anything with you? No. Bye.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

British Chancellor of the Exchequer: "The biggest danger to the world economy is a bunch of Right Wing nuts in congress". The world is aghast at you moron Pub propaganda dupes....A-holes!!

 

[MaggieMae]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's what we're currently witnessing with this President. A real Train Wreck for sure.

Republicans held majority power in all 3 branches for six years and they wielded absolute power. Short memory?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If Obama does this first step is the Supreme Court. Once they rule it Unconstitutional the second step is Impeachment.

 

[Jarhead]

You might wanna check out section 5 of that amendment.

Spot on Leweman. Section 5 is the key and if Obama overrides it, then he has usurped the Constitution and will be impeachable. Section 5 states:

[The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.]

This man is actually what our founders warned us about when framing Article 2 Section 1. I am telling you and have been that this man is not Constitutionally eligible to hold the office. The framers specifically drafted Article 2 Sect 1 for allegiance purposes only. That's why they wanted a president who was born a natural born citizen to two U.S. citizen parents where undivided born loyalty to his nation could never be questioned. With Obama being born to a British National father ,which gave him as a child born dual citizenship with allegiance to the British Crown, it is apparent his heart is not devoted to America and its people first, only to himself. That is what founder John Jay (1st Supreme Court Justice) warned George Washington about when framing the constitutions presidential clause, having a president with foreign allegiance. Well, it looks like Jay was right. Obama is going to usurp the 14th amendment in order to try to save his reelection chances first and foremost instead of putting the American people and the nation first. Bypassing Congress is doing just that.

Oh lordy, only a few years ago we had all sorts of right-wing arm-chair warriors telling us all how the Iraq war is going swimmingly and why. Now we've got all sorts of arm-chair lawyers and supreme court justice wannabes interpreting the Constitution for us over a clause that at best been IGNORED by both Republicans and Democrats for decades and at worst is being used now as just one more perceived piece of ammunition against the current president. You people are so transparent it's downright hilarious.

Against the President?

Maggie Mae...let me explain something to you. This has nothing to do with Barrak Obama. This has to do with the way our government was designed.

We have a system where no one person can make a major decision that affects everyone...he/she may veto...yes...but he/she can not be the decider by himself/herself in FAVOR of a decision.

It is a sytem that works and all we need to do is sidestep it once and the integrity of our system will be compromised.

So please.....get off that whole "ODS" crap......this is serious stuff.

This has nothing to do with Obama.

 

[Jarhead]

If Obama does this first step is the Supreme Court. Once they rule it Unconstitutional the second step is Impeachment.

yes...and for no other reason than we would never want any proesident of any party to think that he/she can be a sole decider on an issue.

We can not let a precedent of this magnitude be set.

 

[Political Junky]

Breaking News. This just in.


Speaker John Boehner will go on National TV In A Rebuttal Speech Right After The Presidents Speech

Huge surprise.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If Obama does this first step is the Supreme Court. Once they rule it Unconstitutional the second step is Impeachment.

yes...and for no other reason than we would never want any proesident of any party to think that he/she can be a sole decider on an issue.

We can not let a precedent of this magnitude be set.

I am afraid that even once the Supreme Court rules it Unconstitutional the Democrats in the Senate will not endorse a guilty verdict.

 

[MaggieMae]

section 5 states: The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

I'm not sure I follow the relevance of that section, or ANY section of the 14th, to the possibility of the President authorizing an increase in the debt ceiling without congress.

The "debt" obviously is larger than the "revenue" we currently have in the Treasury to continue to pay for EXISTING debt. Therefore, legally, in order to not default on that EXISTING debt, the ceiling must be raised. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "new" debt. Nothing, nada, zip.

It's as it you went over the credit limit on your credit card. You still have to pay those extra charges, but you would be cut off from charging anything further. That is ALL raising the debt "ceiling" does too.

Once again for the slow and stupid. The Government takes in enough revenue to pay the debt without rising the debt ceiling. And also to repeat, NO ONE is questioning the VALIDITY of the debt.

Prove it. How much is just interest on that debt? What if we just started paying the principal on debt to China? What if they simply said no, that's not the deal, and called it all in by demanding payment in gold instead of paper? Do you ever THINK about possible repercussions? Obviously not.

 

[Jarhead]

If Obama does this first step is the Supreme Court. Once they rule it Unconstitutional the second step is Impeachment.

yes...and for no other reason than we would never want any proesident of any party to think that he/she can be a sole decider on an issue.

We can not let a precedent of this magnitude be set.

I am afraid that even once the Supreme Court rules it Unconstitutional the Democrats in the Senate will not endorse a guilty verdict.

And they will go down as a party that allowed the president to break the law striclty becuase the president was of their party.

And that will give a rising party a hell of a platform....

 

[saveliberty]

Saying he would like to bypass Congress and actually attempting it are two different things. Certainly Obama is frustrated with the spending and program cuts his expanded government leanings are hard pressed. He would be best to focus his efforts on some type of trade off of $3B in additional cuts in exchange for $2B in added revenue. As a conservative to seems like I'm getting well over 50% of what I want. He averts the balanced budget amendment threat and appears to get a compromise from the Republicans. If you remember Obamacare, this is sort of the same manuvering we saw then. Probably have the same liberals ticked off too.

On a big issue, a compromise is where EVERYBODY is pissed with the results.

 

[MaggieMae]

What on Earth does Iran Contra have to do with the debt ceiling?

What on earth did the "57-state" faux pas have to do with the debt ceiling?

 

[Jarhead]

The "debt" obviously is larger than the "revenue" we currently have in the Treasury to continue to pay for EXISTING debt. Therefore, legally, in order to not default on that EXISTING debt, the ceiling must be raised. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "new" debt. Nothing, nada, zip.

It's as it you went over the credit limit on your credit card. You still have to pay those extra charges, but you would be cut off from charging anything further. That is ALL raising the debt "ceiling" does too.

Once again for the slow and stupid. The Government takes in enough revenue to pay the debt without rising the debt ceiling. And also to repeat, NO ONE is questioning the VALIDITY of the debt.

Prove it. How much is just interest on that debt? What if we just started paying the principal on debt to China? What if they simply said no, that's not the deal, and called it all in by demanding payment in gold instead of paper? Do you ever THINK about possible repercussions? Obviously not.

I can see you do not have a business thinking mind.
It would be financially foolish for China to do that.
Not to mention that it Likely is not part of the contract of debt

 

[MaggieMae]

I called no one a traitor. Or perhaps you could highlight that part. I stated that if Obama does this is Impeached and the Senate does not convict our Constitution is null and void. And that the Democrats that support him are fomenting rebellion by openly violating the US Constitution.

The only way a president can be impeached is for treason or that vague clause "high crimes and misdemeanors." Since none of the actions here would constitute a "high crime" nor a "misdemeanor" crime, then you obviously must have been referring to treason.

I suggest you actually study the Constitution some day. Soon.

You are the dumb one. If a President willfully violates the Constitution that most assuredly IS High Crimes and Misdemeanors.

It has to be proven, first. And there IS no violation here, none.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Which claim?

Reagan violated the Constitution at least twice, seriously, with Iran Contra.

Bush violated the Constitution with his order to torture prisoners, suspending Habeas on both foreign and domestic captures and easedropping on private citizens.

And the 14th..



That basically covers it. But it's doubtful that he would use it until after August 2nd.

Reagan was NEVER connected to Iran Contra even after the Dems in Congress claimed they could. Further Iran Contra was not a violation of Congressional orders.

Weapons were sold to Israel legally. Israel sold said weapons through private citizens and gave the money to Oliver North and Admiral Pointdexter. Once Israel took possession of said weapons what happened to them and any money generated by Israel no longer belongs to the US Government. If a foreign Government donates money to pay for something then the order by Congress that no tax payers money be used is not violated.

As for Bush he ordered no torture. Waterboarding which is the only claim you have to torture, was not illegal until Holder made it so in 2009. In fact it was practiced on our own troops in training cycles.

Oh...My...God...Is there any point in discussing anything with you? No. Bye.

RGS, you are wrong. Period. Flatly. Won't discuss nonsense with you.

 

[MaggieMae]

What on Earth does Iran Contra have to do with the debt ceiling?

Something about violating the Constitution and conservatives not caring when a Republican President does it.

Ohh thanks.
Well anyone with half a brain knows that republicans are only violating the constitution for the betterment of America.

That is anyone with only half a brain

And when something constitutional doesn't fit their agenda, they want an amendment.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If Obama does this first step is the Supreme Court. Once they rule it Unconstitutional the second step is Impeachment.

I agree. Third step, make sure no wing nut from left or right have a chance for the nominations next year.

 

[MaggieMae]

was the debt at such a high percentage of GDP any other time?

Is that a Constitutional consideration?

why the diversion?
Insecure about your position in the debate?

No one is saying it is unconstitutional for congress to raise the debt ceiling.

I commented on your post about how often the debt ceiling was raised by congress...

And my comment was a legit question.....

But I will ask it this way...

All of those othere times that the debt ceiling was raised....was it at a time where:

1) the existing debt was such a high percentage of our GDP
2) our exiosting debt increased at such a high rate

And I'm saying if we're discussing the constitutionality of raising the debt limit, the size of the GDP has zero to do with it.