Breaking: Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas ... 7 confirmed dead

[del]

Correct. It doesn't matter at all what the Qu'ran says or doesn't say. Islam is a religion, it's an ideology. An ideology that doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general. Which is exactly why followers of that ideology should stay in Islamic countries.

how very american of you, asshole.

Thanks, dick.

you're welcome, shithead.

 

[theHawk]

Hindus should stay in India and Buddhist should stay in China, too. Right?

And Native Americans...let's package them up and ship them the **** out. All of this worshiping of nature and shit...it doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general.

None of those people go around killing people because of their religious beliefs.

 

[Kalam]

"most everybody" ????

Why don't you simply answer the question directly?

(Please provide scripture to proves unequivocally non muslims are innocent)

I too would like to read it, as there always seems to be gray areas, depending on which Muslim is doing the sharing.

Thanks.

Mike

Well, I've probably spent more time answering that question directly than I have participating in any other thread here.

You could read the discussion between Mr. Fitnah and I that begins on page 11 of that thread and continues to page 78. Alternatively, you could read a short list of Qur'anic passages that I put together in a separate discussion.

 

[xotoxi]

Hindus should stay in India and Buddhist should stay in China, too. Right?

And Native Americans...let's package them up and ship them the **** out. All of this worshiping of nature and shit...it doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general.

None of those people go around killing people because of their religious beliefs.

Nor do the VAST majority of Islamic people.

You are judging Mohammeds bushel of apples because of the few rotten apples that you see...yet you forget that your own bushel is just as full of rotten apples.

 

[theHawk]

Hindus should stay in India and Buddhist should stay in China, too. Right?

And Native Americans...let's package them up and ship them the **** out. All of this worshiping of nature and shit...it doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general.

None of those people go around killing people because of their religious beliefs.

Nor do the VAST majority of Islamic people.

You are judging Mohammeds bushel of apples because of the few rotten apples that you see...yet you forget that your own bushel is just as full of rotten apples.

Yea you're absolutely right. We shouldn't judge all Muslims. In fact, lets just open up our borders even more and let them pour into our country. We need more "diversity". This country was built on it right?

 

[mdn2000]

It does not matter what scripture states, it does not matter what the Qur'an says. The only thing that matters is what this individual man thought of his beliefs and how he acted on his beliefs. People can quote the Qur'an all day long but this man's interpetation obviously disagrees with said experts that post here.

I have noticed that in all posts, those claiming to know the Qur'an and its meaning have a different understanding and interpetation of the Quran than those Moslems that are committing these crimes.

I concede, I wont attempt to quote the Koran, I wont attempt to cherry pick one of the hundreds of interpetations and pretend to know what it means. What is relevant is there is big difference in what the many different types of moslems beleive.

The only thing I see anyone proving is they do not understand how others are interpeting the Qur'an.

The Qur'an is so clear yet so many dont get it?

Correct. It doesn't matter at all what the Qu'ran says or doesn't say. Islam is a religion, it's an ideology. An ideology that doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general. Which is exactly why followers of that ideology should stay in Islamic countries.

Yet we are told over and over its us white men that dont understand, I am the bigot, yet I did not kill my daughter with my jeep, I did not fly airplanes into the world trade center, I did not kill these men and women so why am I am target for ridicule? Is it just me or do is Kalem making veiled references to me not being innocent, that I and the USA deserve what we get.

Kalem states these people were not personally guilty

none of those killed were personally guilty of murdering innocents, rape, or other crimes that involve spreading abhorrent corruption in the land.

Why not state they were "not guilty", what relevance is there in this statement in relation to the victims, why go out of your way to state which crimes victims of another crime are not guilty of.

I think Kalem is twisted to even make such crazy statements. A man is murdered and Kalem points out they were not "personally guilty" of rape?

I think this is about the ugliest statement made in this thread, think about that, a man dies, his children are crying, we are told not to speculate yet Kalem arrogantly states this man who has been murdered by a molem was not "pesonally guilty".

 

[Kalam]

I dont think you will be able to prove that in any convincing manner.
Well at least in any manner that matters to non muslims.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/81748-islam-forbids.html

Muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide scripture to proves unequivocally non muslims are innocent

Other than you and the other members of USMB's anti-Islamic cadre, most everybody seems to be satisfied by the explanations that I and others have provided.

No one in the media has ever asked" how does Islam define innocent," why would they question what they have never considered .For them,
this is a whole new world , a world where you have already proven to fall short when it comes to reasonable rational answers.

Again, you're the only person here with any knowledge whatsoever of scripture who feels that way. The others who do generally hide behind you and assume that everything you post on the subject is correct.

 

[Si modo]

Laws based on blasphemy and heresy are sooooo two centuries ago. Not very stylish, either.

 

[theHawk]

It does not matter what scripture states, it does not matter what the Qur'an says. The only thing that matters is what this individual man thought of his beliefs and how he acted on his beliefs. People can quote the Qur'an all day long but this man's interpetation obviously disagrees with said experts that post here.

I have noticed that in all posts, those claiming to know the Qur'an and its meaning have a different understanding and interpetation of the Quran than those Moslems that are committing these crimes.

I concede, I wont attempt to quote the Koran, I wont attempt to cherry pick one of the hundreds of interpetations and pretend to know what it means. What is relevant is there is big difference in what the many different types of moslems beleive.

The only thing I see anyone proving is they do not understand how others are interpeting the Qur'an.

The Qur'an is so clear yet so many dont get it?

Correct. It doesn't matter at all what the Qu'ran says or doesn't say. Islam is a religion, it's an ideology. An ideology that doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general. Which is exactly why followers of that ideology should stay in Islamic countries.

Yet we are told over and over its us white men that dont understand, I am the bigot, yet I did not kill my daughter with my jeep, I did not fly airplanes into the world trade center, I did not kill these men and women so why am I am target for ridicule? Is it just me or do is Kalem making veiled references to me not being innocent, that I and the USA deserve what we get.

Kalem states these people were not personally guilty

none of those killed were personally guilty of murdering innocents, rape, or other crimes that involve spreading abhorrent corruption in the land.

Why not state they were "not guilty", what relevance is there in this statement in relation to the victims, why go out of your way to state which crimes victims of another crime are not guilty of.

I think Kalem is twisted to even make such crazy statements. A man is murdered and Kalem points out they were not "personally guilty" of rape?

I think this is about the ugliest statement made in this thread, think about that, a man dies, his children are crying, we are told not to speculate yet Kalem arrogantly state this man who has been murdered by a molem was not "pesonally guilty".

Heh. If I were you I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure out the "logic" of Muslims. Their whole religion is written by a pedophile. The religion has completely turned the once great Arab people upside down.

 

[mdn2000]

Correct. It doesn't matter at all what the Qu'ran says or doesn't say. Islam is a religion, it's an ideology. An ideology that doesn't mesh with American life, or Western ideals in general. Which is exactly why followers of that ideology should stay in Islamic countries.

Yet we are told over and over its us white men that dont understand, I am the bigot, yet I did not kill my daughter with my jeep, I did not fly airplanes into the world trade center, I did not kill these men and women so why am I am target for ridicule? Is it just me or do is Kalem making veiled references to me not being innocent, that I and the USA deserve what we get.

Kalem states these people were not personally guilty

none of those killed were personally guilty of murdering innocents, rape, or other crimes that involve spreading abhorrent corruption in the land.

Why not state they were "not guilty", what relevance is there in this statement in relation to the victims, why go out of your way to state which crimes victims of another crime are not guilty of.

I think Kalem is twisted to even make such crazy statements. A man is murdered and Kalem points out they were not "personally guilty" of rape?

I think this is about the ugliest statement made in this thread, think about that, a man dies, his children are crying, we are told not to speculate yet Kalem arrogantly state this man who has been murdered by a molem was not "pesonally guilty".

Heh. If I were you I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure out the "logic" of Muslims. Their whole religion is written by a pedophile. The religion has completely turned the once great Arab people upside down.

I see Sunni's still marry children, I see articles and stories of Sunni's not really getting married but buying ten year old girls for their Harems, I doubt that is the religion as much as it is tradition and culture. But my point is not what it says in the Qur'an and those who claim to know the Qur'an preaching to us, after all we are not the ones who are buying ten year old girls for a Harem, my point is these people like Kalem post here like the greater crime is the discussion of the crimes. It seems Kalem twist things so that we are the bad guys, that is what I find hateful in Kalems post. Kalem's interpetation is different than other Moslem's interpetation and Kalem talks as if we are the ones who need to understand the Qur'an.

That seems insane to me.

 

[Dr Grump]

That's not PC, that's objective journalism. The man is innocent until proven guilty, he is a suspect. It is alleged, not proven, that he is the shooter. Were the reporters not saying "alleged" they would be taking sides, the side of the accuser.

In journalism you have to say alleged. Dunno what the law is stateside, but down here, if you don't say 'alleged' you are in the hole with a lawsuit if it turns out he wasn't shooter. 'Alleged' covers your arse...

 

[jillian]

That's not PC, that's objective journalism. The man is innocent until proven guilty, he is a suspect. It is alleged, not proven, that he is the shooter. Were the reporters not saying "alleged" they would be taking sides, the side of the accuser.

In journalism you have to say alleged. Dunno what the law is stateside, but down here, if you don't say 'alleged' you are in the hole with a lawsuit if it turns out he wasn't shooter. 'Alleged' covers your arse...

Exactly

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

The question is irrelevant, as the soldiers who were killed were on American soil and were killed by another soldier. If he killed them merely because they were part of a body that took part in what he saw as unjustified invasions and occupations, logic dictates that he should have killed himself for being guilty of the same perceived "sin."

Not at all irrelevant. As long as the victims are not "innocent" in the eyes of a Muslim and/or Islam, then killing is okie dokie and even justified, no?

That would depend on the severity of any offenses they may have committed. To my knowledge, none of those killed were personally guilty of murdering innocents, rape, or other crimes that involve spreading abhorrent corruption in the land. I do not believe in collective punishment or condemnation; that's a tactic employed all too often by Islam's enemies.

The line between guilty and innocent in clear one who denies "allahs" singular right to be worshiped is a wrong doers and guilty


Is there an Arabic word for these oppressors ?

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Seems there is little doubt as to the use of the word oppressor in this verse.
In the Arabic the word is Zâlimûn
Polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust.

The Noble Quran's Search Results:

Apparently the same arabic word is used to describe oppresors in 2:193 and 2:254

Quraan Transliteration

That means disbelief is oppresion

 

[mdn2000]

That's not PC, that's objective journalism. The man is innocent until proven guilty, he is a suspect. It is alleged, not proven, that he is the shooter. Were the reporters not saying "alleged" they would be taking sides, the side of the accuser.

In journalism you have to say alleged. Dunno what the law is stateside, but down here, if you don't say 'alleged' you are in the hole with a lawsuit if it turns out he wasn't shooter. 'Alleged' covers your arse...

To not take a side is to take a side, to say nothing in the face of tyranny is to side with a tyrant, the government is using political correctness to control thought and retain power. If you do not see that you should now consider it and investigate.

Political Correctness is out of control and that takes away from our liberty.

The man is guilty if he is caught red-handed, chances are the reporters have to worry about CAIR and the ACLU.

A trial is a formality, just like the guy in ohio, caught with a dozen bodies and we have to call him innocent.

Political Correctness is a political weapon, nothing less.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

None of those people go around killing people because of their religious beliefs.

Nor do the VAST majority of Islamic people.

You are judging Mohammeds bushel of apples because of the few rotten apples that you see...yet you forget that your own bushel is just as full of rotten apples.

Yea you're absolutely right. We shouldn't judge all Muslims. In fact, lets just open up our borders even more and let them pour into our country. We need more "diversity". This country was built on it right?

Hey that woxi guy is a mind reader ,
he think he knows what muslims think.

 

[Dr Grump]

That's not PC, that's objective journalism. The man is innocent until proven guilty, he is a suspect. It is alleged, not proven, that he is the shooter. Were the reporters not saying "alleged" they would be taking sides, the side of the accuser.

In journalism you have to say alleged. Dunno what the law is stateside, but down here, if you don't say 'alleged' you are in the hole with a lawsuit if it turns out he wasn't shooter. 'Alleged' covers your arse...

To not take a side is to take a side, to say nothing in the face of tyranny is to side with a tyrant, the government is using political correctness to control thought and retain power. If you do not see that you should now consider it and investigate.

Political Correctness is out of control and that takes away from our liberty.

The man is guilty if he is caught red-handed, chances are the reporters have to worry about CAIR and the ACLU.

A trial is a formality, just like the guy in ohio, caught with a dozen bodies and we have to call him innocent.

Political Correctness is a political weapon, nothing less.

Sand ******, ******, rag head, whore, retarded - all these words are not PC. You prefer them? Good on you..

The 'alleged" argument has nothing to do with PC, and everything to do with covering your arse...but you're not in the business, so you wouldn't know....

 

[del]

Nor do the VAST majority of Islamic people.

You are judging Mohammeds bushel of apples because of the few rotten apples that you see...yet you forget that your own bushel is just as full of rotten apples.

Yea you're absolutely right. We shouldn't judge all Muslims. In fact, lets just open up our borders even more and let them pour into our country. We need more "diversity". This country was built on it right?

Hey that woxi guy is a mind reader ,
he think he knows what muslims think.

asshat

 

[Kalam]

Is it just me or do is Kalem making veiled references to me not being innocent, that I and the USA deserve what we get.

Kalem states these people were not personally guilty

Why not state they were "not guilty", what relevance is there in this statement in relation to the victims, why go out of your way to state which crimes victims of another crime are not guilty of.

Because death is appropriate for those guilty of the crimes I listed. To my knowledge, as I said, none of the victims were rapists or murderers, so their deaths were not justified. Even if they were, vigilantism is not a proper course of action when due process can be observed. I made the "personally" distinction because some soldiers are guilty of rape or purposefully killing innocents and deserve to be tried and executed for their crimes. Take, for example, the American soldiers who gang-raped a 14 year-old Iraqi girl after killing her entire family. They then killed her and burned the house down. As with all scum, Muslim or non-Muslim, trying and executing those individuals would be justifiable.

I think Kalem is twisted to even make such crazy statements. A man is murdered and Kalem points out they were not "personally guilty" of rape?

I listed capital offenses under Islam to make it clear that the killer's motivation couldn't have been genuinely Islamic.

I think this is about the ugliest statement made in this thread, think about that, a man dies, his children are crying, we are told not to speculate yet Kalem arrogantly states this man who has been murdered by a molem was not "pesonally guilty".

I have no idea how my statement could be considered "arrogant" or "offensive." You, sir, are a loony toon.

edit: Most of my ancestors are European. It may disappoint you to know that I am, by most standards, a white guy. Islam is not endemic to any single race or ethnicity.

 

[mdn2000]

Nor do the VAST majority of Islamic people.

You are judging Mohammeds bushel of apples because of the few rotten apples that you see...yet you forget that your own bushel is just as full of rotten apples.

Yea you're absolutely right. We shouldn't judge all Muslims. In fact, lets just open up our borders even more and let them pour into our country. We need more "diversity". This country was built on it right?

Hey that woxi guy is a mind reader ,
he think he knows what muslims think.

It does not matter what the vast majority of Islam beleives, what is obvious is the vast majority of Islam does not agree with one another.

Sunni or Shia and all those who beleive have very different ideas. Saudi as a country practice much differently than those Arabs in Israel practice. We keep hearing its not a majority yet the amount of rotten apples is an awfully high number. How about before you folks start telling us its not a majority you start by giving us the number of how many who practice Islam are crazy fanatics.

The figure has to be at least 100 million.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Yea you're absolutely right. We shouldn't judge all Muslims. In fact, lets just open up our borders even more and let them pour into our country. We need more "diversity". This country was built on it right?

Hey that woxi guy is a mind reader ,
he think he knows what muslims think.

It does not matter what the vast majority of Islam beleives, what is obvious is the vast majority of Islam does not agree with one another.

Sunni or Shia and all those who beleive have very different ideas. Saudi as a country practice much differently than those Arabs in Israel practice. We keep hearing its not a majority yet the amount of rotten apples is an awfully high number. How about before you folks start telling us its not a majority you start by giving us the number of how many who practice Islam are crazy fanatics.

The figure has to be at least 100 million.

Im not aware of any daylight between any school of Islamic thought when it comes to the topic of jihad and infidelity .