BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Cong

[Jarhead]

Let's be honest here...I think we all know that Lerner's group within the IRS targeted conservative groups. The investigating committees are having a hard time nailing this down only because Lerner won't talk, the IRS's new commissioner is being less than forthcoming and Eric Holder's Justice Department will never in a million years look into this. It will come out...it's going to take a long time because of the stonewalling of the investigations...but it will come out.

1. what so-called conservative group was denied its status?

(hint: the answer is none

2. the so-called conservative groups could have just filed their returns. they did not need IRS permission.

3. the law PROHIBITS 501(c)(4) corporations from engaging in political activity so the wingnut tea party groups should really be quiet since they were breaking the law anyway.

the law doesn't prohibit them from engaging in political activity - it just can't be their primary activity. that has to be social welfare.

so what do these tea party groups do other than political activity? that's the real irs scandal. insufficient rules and testing to enforce the law.

So in other words, you have no idea what the tea party is.

You want to believe it is a conservative political group that is against the democratic party.

It is not.

The Tea Party is an expression of an ideology of self reliance and having a limited government.

Whereas they will engage in political activity as it pertains to a candidate with the appropriate message, their primary role is to educate the general public as to the benefits of living a life of self reliance and less dependence on government.

Now, you don't have to agree with them. But to say all they do is engage in political activity is no different than saying ANY group that is guided by an ideology is strictly political.

Know what to criticize before you criticize.

 

[Jarhead]

Let's be honest here...I think we all know that Lerner's group within the IRS targeted conservative groups. The investigating committees are having a hard time nailing this down only because Lerner won't talk, the IRS's new commissioner is being less than forthcoming and Eric Holder's Justice Department will never in a million years look into this. It will come out...it's going to take a long time because of the stonewalling of the investigations...but it will come out.

1. what so-called conservative group was denied its status?

(hint: the answer is none

2. the so-called conservative groups could have just filed their returns. they did not need IRS permission.

3. the law PROHIBITS 501(c)(4) corporations from engaging in political activity so the wingnut tea party groups should really be quiet since they were breaking the law anyway.

if you were an attorney, you would realize that they did not break the law.

But you only MAKE BELIEVE you are an attorney.....and that doesn't help you understand the law.

 

[ogibillm]

1. what so-called conservative group was denied its status?

(hint: the answer is none

2. the so-called conservative groups could have just filed their returns. they did not need IRS permission.

3. the law PROHIBITS 501(c)(4) corporations from engaging in political activity so the wingnut tea party groups should really be quiet since they were breaking the law anyway.

the law doesn't prohibit them from engaging in political activity - it just can't be their primary activity. that has to be social welfare.

so what do these tea party groups do other than political activity? that's the real irs scandal. insufficient rules and testing to enforce the law.

So in other words, you have no idea what the tea party is.

You want to believe it is a conservative political group that is against the democratic party.

It is not.

The Tea Party is an expression of an ideology of self reliance and having a limited government.

Whereas they will engage in political activity as it pertains to a candidate with the appropriate message, their primary role is to educate the general public as to the benefits of living a life of self reliance and less dependence on government.

Now, you don't have to agree with them. But to say all they do is engage in political activity is no different than saying ANY group that is guided by an ideology is strictly political.

Know what to criticize before you criticize.

so what do these groups do other than political action? what do they spend their money on other than political campaigns?

 

[Jarhead]

the law doesn't prohibit them from engaging in political activity - it just can't be their primary activity. that has to be social welfare.

so what do these tea party groups do other than political activity? that's the real irs scandal. insufficient rules and testing to enforce the law.

So in other words, you have no idea what the tea party is.

You want to believe it is a conservative political group that is against the democratic party.

It is not.

The Tea Party is an expression of an ideology of self reliance and having a limited government.

Whereas they will engage in political activity as it pertains to a candidate with the appropriate message, their primary role is to educate the general public as to the benefits of living a life of self reliance and less dependence on government.

Now, you don't have to agree with them. But to say all they do is engage in political activity is no different than saying ANY group that is guided by an ideology is strictly political.

Know what to criticize before you criticize.

so what do these groups do other than political action? what do they spend their money on other than political campaigns?

They have ralleys and outings with speakers who present the ideology and the benefits of the ideology.

During campaign seasons, they are candidates.

Off season, they are leaders with the ideology.

If they were strictly political, it would have been proven by now...and they would have all been denied the status.

Sadly...they were not denied. If they were they would have been able to prove otherwise and re-apply.

They were simply ignored.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

 

[JFK_USA]

Allen West? Damn, it must be true...

Clearly. And the best part? This is their smoking gun:

‘I was cautioning folks about email and how we have several occasions where Congress has asked for emails … we need to be cautious about what we say in emails’
Read more at BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Congress (VIDEO) - Allen West Republic

Be careful what you say in Emails........oh, the humanities? Its time for Civil war! Someone was careful in an *E-Mail*!

If you got nothing to hide why would you have to be careful in an email?

Because you should be careful. Being careful about what you say in an email doesn't mean you have something to hide or you are breaking the law. It means you are being careful. You can't convict anyone for being careful about what they put in an email.

 

[JFK_USA]

Let's be honest here...I think we all know that Lerner's group within the IRS targeted conservative groups. The investigating committees are having a hard time nailing this down only because Lerner won't talk, the IRS's new commissioner is being less than forthcoming and Eric Holder's Justice Department will never in a million years look into this. It will come out...it's going to take a long time because of the stonewalling of the investigations...but it will come out.

If you were concerned with being honest, you'd admit that what happened here was a procedural matter. The IRS needed to handle an influx of 501c applications following the 2101 election. They made some decisions to flag some terms that might be political in nature. For both ends of the spectrum.

This gives the appearance of impropriety......and that is all dickheads like Issa need.

The rest is bullshit. And it will end in no arrests. It has, however, done what Issa intended it to do.

Congrats.

If that really WERE the case, Laugher? Why wouldn't the IRS, Lois Lerner and the Obama White House welcome an investigation? Why would Lerner be planting questions she wanted to be asked right before the IG's report came out? Why would 7 computer hard drives crash at the IRS right after Camp started asking questions about what happened? Why would Lois Lerner take the 5th? This isn't the "appearance of impropriety"...this is using the IRS to target people because of their political leanings.

Because she has a constitutional right to take the 5th amendment? Her pleading the 5th doesn't mean she is guilty.

 

[Jarhead]

Clearly. And the best part? This is their smoking gun:



Be careful what you say in Emails........oh, the humanities? Its time for Civil war! Someone was careful in an *E-Mail*!

If you got nothing to hide why would you have to be careful in an email?

Because you should be careful. Being careful about what you say in an email doesn't mean you have something to hide or you are breaking the law. It means you are being careful. You can't convict anyone for being careful about what they put in an email.

1) Lerner apologized for unfairly targeting conservative groups and blamed it on two low level rogue employees.
2) Lerner plead the 5th
3) Emails for 2 of the most pertinent years are missing
4) It took months for the IRS to mention they were missing
5) Lerner has an email asking about "is data recoverable, and "we need to be careful"
6) It took a year for the IRS to present that email

Now...each alone....can be innocent. Put them together? Seems fishy....but there is more.....

1) An Obama appointed Attorney investigated and claimed to have found no criminal action. She made that claim within a week of starting the investigation

2) Obama, himself, claimed there was not a smidgen of corruption at the IRS....

Yet.....

How can ANYONE have made that determination without having access to Lois Lerners emails for 2 years....AND not even KNOWING that those emails were missing?

What did the attorney do during the investigation? Ask "is anyone guilty" and when no one said "I am", simply leave?

Now....anyone with half a brain would recognize that something is not right here.

 

[The Rabbi]

Let's be honest here...I think we all know that Lerner's group within the IRS targeted conservative groups. The investigating committees are having a hard time nailing this down only because Lerner won't talk, the IRS's new commissioner is being less than forthcoming and Eric Holder's Justice Department will never in a million years look into this. It will come out...it's going to take a long time because of the stonewalling of the investigations...but it will come out.

1. what so-called conservative group was denied its status?

(hint: the answer is none

2. the so-called conservative groups could have just filed their returns. they did not need IRS permission.

3. the law PROHIBITS 501(c)(4) corporations from engaging in political activity so the wingnut tea party groups should really be quiet since they were breaking the law anyway.

if you were an attorney, you would realize that they did not break the law.

But you only MAKE BELIEVE you are an attorney.....and that doesn't help you understand the law.

The Left falls back on these three memes every time and they get debunked every time and they come back and repeat them every time:
1) No conservative group was denied status
2) The groups were rightfully denied because they engaged in political speech.
and 3) Conservative groups were not the only ones targeted.

Forget that those two are contradictory. The first is irrelevant. They were not denied but delayed, and thus unable to raise money effectively. They might as well have been denied status but that would have occasioned a lawsuit. They got a lawsuit anyway.

The designation is for groups engaged in political activity: polling, disseminating information on issues, research. Plenty of liberal groups have exactly the same designation and engage in exactly the same kinds of activiities. And no one ever charged they were applying incorrectly

The number of TP groups over the number of liberal groups is on the order of 100 to 1. Further the IRS itself apologized for the targeting.

I know it's useless because in the very next thread, maybe the next post, some brain dead lefty will repeat the same shit.

 

[The Rabbi]

If you got nothing to hide why would you have to be careful in an email?

Because you should be careful. Being careful about what you say in an email doesn't mean you have something to hide or you are breaking the law. It means you are being careful. You can't convict anyone for being careful about what they put in an email.

1) Lerner apologized for unfairly targeting conservative groups and blamed it on two low level rogue employees.
2) Lerner plead the 5th
3) Emails for 2 of the most pertinent years are missing
4) It took months for the IRS to mention they were missing
5) Lerner has an email asking about "is data recoverable, and "we need to be careful"
6) It took a year for the IRS to present that email

Now...each alone....can be innocent. Put them together? Seems fishy....but there is more.....

1) An Obama appointed Attorney investigated and claimed to have found no criminal action. She made that claim within a week of starting the investigation

2) Obama, himself, claimed there was not a smidgen of corruption at the IRS....

Yet.....

How can ANYONE have made that determination without having access to Lois Lerners emails for 2 years....AND not even KNOWING that those emails were missing?

What did the attorney do during the investigation? Ask "is anyone guilty" and when no one said "I am", simply leave?

Now....anyone with half a brain would recognize that something is not right here.

It would be criminal negligence and a breach of duty for Congress NOT to investigate this. Yet that is what the Left wants.

 

[Jarhead]

If you were concerned with being honest, you'd admit that what happened here was a procedural matter. The IRS needed to handle an influx of 501c applications following the 2101 election. They made some decisions to flag some terms that might be political in nature. For both ends of the spectrum.

This gives the appearance of impropriety......and that is all dickheads like Issa need.

The rest is bullshit. And it will end in no arrests. It has, however, done what Issa intended it to do.

Congrats.

If that really WERE the case, Laugher? Why wouldn't the IRS, Lois Lerner and the Obama White House welcome an investigation? Why would Lerner be planting questions she wanted to be asked right before the IG's report came out? Why would 7 computer hard drives crash at the IRS right after Camp started asking questions about what happened? Why would Lois Lerner take the 5th? This isn't the "appearance of impropriety"...this is using the IRS to target people because of their political leanings.

Because she has a constitutional right to take the 5th amendment? Her pleading the 5th doesn't mean she is guilty.

Interesting how you address each incident separately. That's easy.

Let me see you explain everything at once.....because when you do, you will say "dam, that's a shit load of excuses."

Remember...you can rationalize nearly any action a person makes.....but when you find yourself doing nothing but rationalizing someone's actions overall.....a rational minded person will say "something is up"

 

[Jarhead]

You know, I never thought the white house was involved....

Until the whole lost email thing came up.

Why?

Because I just don't see how the attorney appointed by Obama was able to come to her conclusion of no crimes committed without knowing those emails were lost....I would think a true investigator would have asked to see Lerners emails....and it is quite obvious she never asked for them. That is very suspicious to me.

 

[Jarhead]

1. what so-called conservative group was denied its status?

(hint: the answer is none

2. the so-called conservative groups could have just filed their returns. they did not need IRS permission.

3. the law PROHIBITS 501(c)(4) corporations from engaging in political activity so the wingnut tea party groups should really be quiet since they were breaking the law anyway.

if you were an attorney, you would realize that they did not break the law.

But you only MAKE BELIEVE you are an attorney.....and that doesn't help you understand the law.

The Left falls back on these three memes every time and they get debunked every time and they come back and repeat them every time:
1) No conservative group was denied status
2) The groups were rightfully denied because they engaged in political speech.
and 3) Conservative groups were not the only ones targeted.

Forget that those two are contradictory. The first is irrelevant. They were not denied but delayed, and thus unable to raise money effectively. They might as well have been denied status but that would have occasioned a lawsuit. They got a lawsuit anyway.

The designation is for groups engaged in political activity: polling, disseminating information on issues, research. Plenty of liberal groups have exactly the same designation and engage in exactly the same kinds of activiities. And no one ever charged they were applying incorrectly

The number of TP groups over the number of liberal groups is on the order of 100 to 1. Further the IRS itself apologized for the targeting.

I know it's useless because in the very next thread, maybe the next post, some brain dead lefty will repeat the same shit.

I believe you are wrong about one thing.

The 100-1 ratio of conservative groups targeted versus progressive groups is irrelevant.

ALL groups were targeted as was the role of Lerners department.

The complaint was never "targeted to see if they were viable for status"

That is where Cummings was an asshole KNOWING he made a big deal over something that was never the complaint.

The complaint was that conservative groups were made to jump through hoops with inappropriate questions and continued delays for an answer of status.

The fact that the left, the democrats in congress and the president keep on harping on the fact that progressive groups were also targeted tells me one thing....

1) They have no idea what Lerners group was designed to do and no idea what the complaint is

or

2) They don't want the truth to come out.

 

[Oldstyle]

If you were concerned with being honest, you'd admit that what happened here was a procedural matter. The IRS needed to handle an influx of 501c applications following the 2101 election. They made some decisions to flag some terms that might be political in nature. For both ends of the spectrum.

This gives the appearance of impropriety......and that is all dickheads like Issa need.

The rest is bullshit. And it will end in no arrests. It has, however, done what Issa intended it to do.

Congrats.

If that really WERE the case, Laugher? Why wouldn't the IRS, Lois Lerner and the Obama White House welcome an investigation? Why would Lerner be planting questions she wanted to be asked right before the IG's report came out? Why would 7 computer hard drives crash at the IRS right after Camp started asking questions about what happened? Why would Lois Lerner take the 5th? This isn't the "appearance of impropriety"...this is using the IRS to target people because of their political leanings.

Because she has a constitutional right to take the 5th amendment? Her pleading the 5th doesn't mean she is guilty.

With all due respect, JFK...how many people can you think of that have taken the 5th who weren't guilty? Yes, we have the right not to answer questions that may implicate us in a crime...and yes, we are presumed innocent until proven guilty...but you'd have to be incredibly naive not to see the taking of the 5th as a HUGE red flag when it comes to guilt!

 

[Jarhead]

If that really WERE the case, Laugher? Why wouldn't the IRS, Lois Lerner and the Obama White House welcome an investigation? Why would Lerner be planting questions she wanted to be asked right before the IG's report came out? Why would 7 computer hard drives crash at the IRS right after Camp started asking questions about what happened? Why would Lois Lerner take the 5th? This isn't the "appearance of impropriety"...this is using the IRS to target people because of their political leanings.

Because she has a constitutional right to take the 5th amendment? Her pleading the 5th doesn't mean she is guilty.

With all due respect, JFK...how many people can you think of that have taken the 5th who weren't guilty? Yes, we have the right not to answer questions that may implicate us in a crime...and yes, we are presumed innocent until proven guilty...but you'd have to be incredibly naive not to see the taking of the 5th as a HUGE red flag when it comes to guilt!

Better question...

How many innocent people have taken the 5th, lost all pertinent evidence, apologized for wrong doing while blaming it on others, questioned what data is recorded and what data is not....etc...etc...etc.

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm a realist...if I'm investigating something and one of the people I'm questioning under oath invokes their 5th Amendment rights...the focus of my investigation is now going to be on THAT person because it's obvious THAT IN THEIR MINDS they have something to hide!

 

[The Rabbi]

if you were an attorney, you would realize that they did not break the law.

But you only MAKE BELIEVE you are an attorney.....and that doesn't help you understand the law.

The Left falls back on these three memes every time and they get debunked every time and they come back and repeat them every time:
1) No conservative group was denied status
2) The groups were rightfully denied because they engaged in political speech.
and 3) Conservative groups were not the only ones targeted.

Forget that those two are contradictory. The first is irrelevant. They were not denied but delayed, and thus unable to raise money effectively. They might as well have been denied status but that would have occasioned a lawsuit. They got a lawsuit anyway.

The designation is for groups engaged in political activity: polling, disseminating information on issues, research. Plenty of liberal groups have exactly the same designation and engage in exactly the same kinds of activiities. And no one ever charged they were applying incorrectly

The number of TP groups over the number of liberal groups is on the order of 100 to 1. Further the IRS itself apologized for the targeting.

I know it's useless because in the very next thread, maybe the next post, some brain dead lefty will repeat the same shit.

I believe you are wrong about one thing.

The 100-1 ratio of conservative groups targeted versus progressive groups is irrelevant.

ALL groups were targeted as was the role of Lerners department.

The complaint was never "targeted to see if they were viable for status"

That is where Cummings was an asshole KNOWING he made a big deal over something that was never the complaint.

The complaint was that conservative groups were made to jump through hoops with inappropriate questions and continued delays for an answer of status.

The fact that the left, the democrats in congress and the president keep on harping on the fact that progressive groups were also targeted tells me one thing....

1) They have no idea what Lerners group was designed to do and no idea what the complaint is

or

2) They don't want the truth to come out.

I disagree. Almost all liberal groups got speedy approval, or were denied on the merits. The salient fact is that conservative groups were singled out for special treatment, which meant delays and unwarranted intrusions into things the IRS had no business asking about.

 

[Oldstyle]

To be blunt...every single action by Lerner since that first inquiry was made by Camp has been the action of a guilty person. If she IS innocent...then she's the dumbest person on the planet. Anyone want to make that claim?

 

[Jarhead]

I'm a realist...if I'm investigating something and one of the people I'm questioning under oath invokes their 5th Amendment rights...the focus of my investigation is now going to be on THAT person because it's obvious THAT IN THEIR MINDS they have something to hide!

And when you focus on that person and you find that she is missing 2 years of emails...something she didn't tell you...and it took over a year to find out....would you assume even MORE likely of guilt?

And then, you uncover an email that shows she was asking questions about whether or not IM data is recorded.....would you feel you are getting warmer?

Like that guy who is on trial for allegedly intentionally letting his son die in a hot car....

It was deemed an accident until....surprise....it was found that he was curious as to how long it would take for a human to die in a hot car.

Jeez...the whole world sees him as guilty now. A trial is most certainly warranted for sure.

How is Lerners request for information regarding "data retrieval" not the same? I mean, really? The left doesn't see that as reason in itself to investigate this further?

 

[Jarhead]

The Left falls back on these three memes every time and they get debunked every time and they come back and repeat them every time:
1) No conservative group was denied status
2) The groups were rightfully denied because they engaged in political speech.
and 3) Conservative groups were not the only ones targeted.

Forget that those two are contradictory. The first is irrelevant. They were not denied but delayed, and thus unable to raise money effectively. They might as well have been denied status but that would have occasioned a lawsuit. They got a lawsuit anyway.

The designation is for groups engaged in political activity: polling, disseminating information on issues, research. Plenty of liberal groups have exactly the same designation and engage in exactly the same kinds of activiities. And no one ever charged they were applying incorrectly

The number of TP groups over the number of liberal groups is on the order of 100 to 1. Further the IRS itself apologized for the targeting.

I know it's useless because in the very next thread, maybe the next post, some brain dead lefty will repeat the same shit.

I believe you are wrong about one thing.

The 100-1 ratio of conservative groups targeted versus progressive groups is irrelevant.

ALL groups were targeted as was the role of Lerners department.

The complaint was never "targeted to see if they were viable for status"

That is where Cummings was an asshole KNOWING he made a big deal over something that was never the complaint.

The complaint was that conservative groups were made to jump through hoops with inappropriate questions and continued delays for an answer of status.

The fact that the left, the democrats in congress and the president keep on harping on the fact that progressive groups were also targeted tells me one thing....

1) They have no idea what Lerners group was designed to do and no idea what the complaint is

or

2) They don't want the truth to come out.

I disagree. Almost all liberal groups got speedy approval, or were denied on the merits. The salient fact is that conservative groups were singled out for special treatment, which meant delays and unwarranted intrusions into things the IRS had no business asking about.

uhhhh....that was exactly what I was saying. The 100-1 is irrelevant. It could have been 1000-1.....but if that 1000 were treated differently than that 1, then there is something wrong.

 

[Skylar]

If you got nothing to hide why would you have to be careful in an email?

Because you should be careful. Being careful about what you say in an email doesn't mean you have something to hide or you are breaking the law. It means you are being careful. You can't convict anyone for being careful about what they put in an email.

1) Lerner apologized for unfairly targeting conservative groups and blamed it on two low level rogue employees.

Actually, this is what she said:

Lois G. Lerner, the IRS official who oversees tax-exempt groups, said the “absolutely inappropriate” actions by “front-line people” were not driven by partisan motives.

And the evidence has backed that narrative. After years of investigation, there's still no evidence of partisan motives, or even that anyone committed a crime.

2) Lerner plead the 5th

After GOP leadership insisted that someone would go to jail over the 'scandal'. That's before there was even an investigation or determination that any crime had been commited......the GOP had already determined what the punishment was going to be.

And that it *would* be met out on someone. In that McCarthy'esque witch hunt, what would you do? Remember, you've already been convicted, without charges or trial...and the guys questioning you have already told you that you're going to jail. Before the investigation begins.

3) Emails for 2 of the most pertinent years are missing

Almost all of them were reconstructed other people's computers.....the folks she had sent the emails too. And guess what.....there's jack shyte to back the GOP innuedo-a-thon. No partisan motivations, no crime, nothing.

4) It took months for the IRS to mention they were missing

Actually, the IRS mentioned that certain emails were lost due to a hard drive crash long ago. The GOP only noticed that what the IRS told them recently.

And then tried to spin their own failure to read what they asked for as the IRS 'hiding' something.

5) Lerner has an email asking about "is data recoverable, and "we need to be careful"

Again, AFTER the GOP had begun its witch hunt and after they had insisted that someone was going to jail, before they'd even done an investigation.

Only an idiot wouldn't counsel caution in those circumstances.

And of course, this is all long *after* the era of 'Tea Party persecution' that the GOP is lamenting about. In our universe cause precedes effect. It doesn't follow it by 3 years.

And finally, and perhaps most obviously, she didn't tell anyone to hide anything.

6) It took a year for the IRS to present that email

You do realize that the email in question is barely a year old, right? For her to have delivered it on the time line you're demanding, she would have had to CC Doug Issa when she sent it.

Worse for your claims, it occurred AFTER the IRS 'scandal'? And that congress had subpoenaed emails that occured during the supposed scandal.

1) An Obama appointed Attorney investigated and claimed to have found no criminal action. She made that claim within a week of starting the investigation

And after 3 years, Republicans haven't found a single crime either. Or even political motivation. Their entire narrative hasn't worked out. You'd think that would be a hint and a half to the GOP and their followers, but nope. The lack of evidence is only evidence that they have to dig deeper!

McCarthy would be so proud.

And of course, GOP leadership insisted someone would go to jail....before the investigation had even begun. I guess when they're political hay to make, the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing goes right out the window.

2) Obama, himself, claimed there was not a smidgen of corruption at the IRS....

Yet.....

How can ANYONE have made that determination without having access to Lois Lerners emails for 2 years....AND not even KNOWING that those emails were missing?

Check again.

1) Almost all of the emails were recovered from other email accounts with whom Lerner was conversing with.

2) There were no smoking guns. No indications of a crime. No indications of partisanship.

3) The IRS notified Congress of the hard drive crash. Congress only NOTICED recently. And then tried to cast their failure to notice as the IRS 'hiding' something.

And of course, you're insinuating an argument you can't factualy support. If you believe that Lois commited a crime with the scrutiny of Tea Party groups, show us. Show us the evidence. Show us the partisanship. Show us the orders.

You can't. After years of investigation, the evidence simply doesn't support the GOP narrative. You've been reduced to pretending that there's some smoking gun hidden in a handful of emails on a crashed hard drive.....when every other baseless accusation to come out of the GOP on this issue has been proven laughably, comically, and throughly false.

But this time its different, huh?