Boeing 737 Max: I'm leaving on a jet plane, don't know if I'll be back again

[Denizen]

The song tells it all.

After weeks of denial over the Lion Air crash in Indonesia Boeing and the FAA have done nothing.

Now SouthWest Airlines has determined the issue is problematic and has taken its own measures to reduce the risk of unpreventable death dive accidents.

Shame on Boeing which is delaying its actions because fixing the problems would be an admission of culpability.

A poke in the eye to all those USMB members defending Boeing's and FAA's negligence.

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device to avoid a repeat of the Lion Air crash that killed 189 people
Business Insider
SINÉAD BAKER
Nov 30th 2018 12:07PM
Southwest Airlines is activating a new safety feature in its Boeing 737 Max fleet after the Indonesian government identified issues with the Lion Air plane that crashed and killed 189 people.
The government said there was an issue with the plane's Angle of Attack (AOA) system, which wrongly caused the plane's anti-stall system to kick in and push the plane's nose lower, making it harder to control.
It is not certain that AOA errors caused the crash, but it is a possibility.
Southwest is now planning on activating an additional indicator in its Boeing 737 Max planes, which would alert pilots of erroneous readings in the system.
Southwest Airlines is adding a new safety device to its fleet of Boeing 737 Max planes to avoid an incident like the Lion Air crash which killed 189 people in October.
Southwest confirmed to aviation publication The Air Current that it will activate new Angle of Attack (AOA) indicators on its planes which will warn if the sensors are giving incorrect data.
The airline said in a statement that the new measure "will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present."
The indicator is an optional additional check on the aircraft's AOA system, which senses the plane's angle and pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it is pointing too high. The system is design to prevent the plane from stalling.
However, if the system malfunctions it can push the nose down too far, forcing it into a dangerous dive which pilots may struggle to reverse.

While Southwest did not mention the fatal Lion Air crash, Indonesian investigators have said that a fault with the AOA system in the brand new Boeing 737 Max 8 may have been why the pilot was left wrestling with the controls as the plane began to speed towards the sea.
They said, however, that it is "too early to conclude" whether this issue with the system contributed to the crash.
According to video and photo footage reviewed by The Current Air, Lion Air's planes do not have the AOA indicators installed.
US aviation groups, including the Federal Aviation Authority, say that Boeing didn't tell them about new sensors in the automated anti-stall system that were added to their 737 MAX aircraft.
Boeing issued a warning for its 737 MAX 8 and 737 MAX 9 airliners after the crash, and the US Government issued an emergency airworthiness directive.
Southwest pilots were informed of the change this week, The Air Current reported. The change will begin with brand new planes from Boeing, which will come with the AOA device already installed, The Air Current said.
Southwest is also expected to fit its existing 737 MAX planes with the device, according to the report.

 

[SavannahMann]

The song tells it all.

After weeks of denial over the Lion Air crash in Indonesia Boeing and the FAA have done nothing.

Now SouthWest Airlines has determined the issue is problematic and has taken its own measures to reduce the risk of unpreventable death dive accidents.

Shame on Boeing which is delaying its actions because fixing the problems would be an admission of culpability.

A poke in the eye to all those USMB defending Boeing's and FAA's negligence.

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device to avoid a repeat of the Lion Air crash that killed 189 people
Business Insider
SINÉAD BAKER
Nov 30th 2018 12:07PM
Southwest Airlines is activating a new safety feature in its Boeing 737 Max fleet after the Indonesian government identified issues with the Lion Air plane that crashed and killed 189 people.
The government said there was an issue with the plane's Angle of Attack (AOA) system, which wrongly caused the plane's anti-stall system to kick in and push the plane's nose lower, making it harder to control.
It is not certain that AOA errors caused the crash, but it is a possibility.
Southwest is now planning on activating an additional indicator in its Boeing 737 Max planes, which would alert pilots of erroneous readings in the system.
Southwest Airlines is adding a new safety device to its fleet of Boeing 737 Max planes to avoid an incident like the Lion Air crash which killed 189 people in October.
Southwest confirmed to aviation publication The Air Current that it will activate new Angle of Attack (AOA) indicators on its planes which will warn if the sensors are giving incorrect data.
The airline said in a statement that the new measure "will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present."
The indicator is an optional additional check on the aircraft's AOA system, which senses the plane's angle and pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it is pointing too high. The system is design to prevent the plane from stalling.
However, if the system malfunctions it can push the nose down too far, forcing it into a dangerous dive which pilots may struggle to reverse.

While Southwest did not mention the fatal Lion Air crash, Indonesian investigators have said that a fault with the AOA system in the brand new Boeing 737 Max 8 may have been why the pilot was left wrestling with the controls as the plane began to speed towards the sea.
They said, however, that it is "too early to conclude" whether this issue with the system contributed to the crash.
According to video and photo footage reviewed by The Current Air, Lion Air's planes do not have the AOA indicators installed.
US aviation groups, including the Federal Aviation Authority, say that Boeing didn't tell them about new sensors in the automated anti-stall system that were added to their 737 MAX aircraft.
Boeing issued a warning for its 737 MAX 8 and 737 MAX 9 airliners after the crash, and the US Government issued an emergency airworthiness directive.
Southwest pilots were informed of the change this week, The Air Current reported. The change will begin with brand new planes from Boeing, which will come with the AOA device already installed, The Air Current said.
Southwest is also expected to fit its existing 737 MAX planes with the device, according to the report.

They aren’t adding anything, they’re activating something that is already there. Like a setting to allow the back up camera to work all the time while you are driving, not just backing up. You didn’t install anything, but instead just turned it on.

Now, I’ve said before that Boeing screwed up by not telling anyone that this feature was on the plane. I still say Boeing screwed up, and they admitted they screwed up by issuing a bulletin which was the last of your I hate Boeing threads I commented on.

But what do you want Boeing to do? They’ve already issued a bulletin on the information. Do you want them to ground all their planes? Do you want them to destroy all their aircraft? What fix do you propose? You rant and rave, but you never propose any fixes. So what fix do you think is appropriate?

Airbus had a failure of the angle of attack sensor, and the flight test crew died because of it. Was Airbus a death trap too? Or just Boeing?

The reason we aren’t taking you seriously is because you are going hyper on the propaganda. You say that Southwest installed new equipment. Well they didn’t. They activated already installed equipment. Boeing screwed up, but are we supposed to ground all 737’s forever? Boeing is working on the fix, and generally speaking, Boeing is usually pretty good about fixing flaws with their aircraft when those flaws are identified. Nothing is perfect, but Boeing is usually pretty good about finding the screwup and fixing it.

So what do you think we should do? Or what do you expect Boeing to do?

 

[Denizen]

The song tells it all.

After weeks of denial over the Lion Air crash in Indonesia Boeing and the FAA have done nothing.

Now SouthWest Airlines has determined the issue is problematic and has taken its own measures to reduce the risk of unpreventable death dive accidents.

Shame on Boeing which is delaying its actions because fixing the problems would be an admission of culpability.

A poke in the eye to all those USMB defending Boeing's and FAA's negligence.

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device to avoid a repeat of the Lion Air crash that killed 189 people
Business Insider
SINÉAD BAKER
Nov 30th 2018 12:07PM
Southwest Airlines is activating a new safety feature in its Boeing 737 Max fleet after the Indonesian government identified issues with the Lion Air plane that crashed and killed 189 people.
The government said there was an issue with the plane's Angle of Attack (AOA) system, which wrongly caused the plane's anti-stall system to kick in and push the plane's nose lower, making it harder to control.
It is not certain that AOA errors caused the crash, but it is a possibility.
Southwest is now planning on activating an additional indicator in its Boeing 737 Max planes, which would alert pilots of erroneous readings in the system.
Southwest Airlines is adding a new safety device to its fleet of Boeing 737 Max planes to avoid an incident like the Lion Air crash which killed 189 people in October.
Southwest confirmed to aviation publication The Air Current that it will activate new Angle of Attack (AOA) indicators on its planes which will warn if the sensors are giving incorrect data.
The airline said in a statement that the new measure "will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present."
The indicator is an optional additional check on the aircraft's AOA system, which senses the plane's angle and pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it is pointing too high. The system is design to prevent the plane from stalling.
However, if the system malfunctions it can push the nose down too far, forcing it into a dangerous dive which pilots may struggle to reverse.

While Southwest did not mention the fatal Lion Air crash, Indonesian investigators have said that a fault with the AOA system in the brand new Boeing 737 Max 8 may have been why the pilot was left wrestling with the controls as the plane began to speed towards the sea.
They said, however, that it is "too early to conclude" whether this issue with the system contributed to the crash.
According to video and photo footage reviewed by The Current Air, Lion Air's planes do not have the AOA indicators installed.
US aviation groups, including the Federal Aviation Authority, say that Boeing didn't tell them about new sensors in the automated anti-stall system that were added to their 737 MAX aircraft.
Boeing issued a warning for its 737 MAX 8 and 737 MAX 9 airliners after the crash, and the US Government issued an emergency airworthiness directive.
Southwest pilots were informed of the change this week, The Air Current reported. The change will begin with brand new planes from Boeing, which will come with the AOA device already installed, The Air Current said.
Southwest is also expected to fit its existing 737 MAX planes with the device, according to the report.

They aren’t adding anything, they’re activating something that is already there. Like a setting to allow the back up camera to work all the time while you are driving, not just backing up. You didn’t install anything, but instead just turned it on.

Now, I’ve said before that Boeing screwed up by not telling anyone that this feature was on the plane. I still say Boeing screwed up, and they admitted they screwed up by issuing a bulletin which was the last of your I hate Boeing threads I commented on.

But what do you want Boeing to do? They’ve already issued a bulletin on the information. Do you want them to ground all their planes? Do you want them to destroy all their aircraft? What fix do you propose? You rant and rave, but you never propose any fixes. So what fix do you think is appropriate?

Airbus had a failure of the angle of attack sensor, and the flight test crew died because of it. Was Airbus a death trap too? Or just Boeing?

The reason we aren’t taking you seriously is because you are going hyper on the propaganda. You say that Southwest installed new equipment. Well they didn’t. They activated already installed equipment. Boeing screwed up, but are we supposed to ground all 737’s forever? Boeing is working on the fix, and generally speaking, Boeing is usually pretty good about fixing flaws with their aircraft when those flaws are identified. Nothing is perfect, but Boeing is usually pretty good about finding the screwup and fixing it.

So what do you think we should do? Or what do you expect Boeing to do?

Boeing should have grounded all 737 Max aircraft until the problem was resolved to the satisfaction of the pilot's association.

 

[SavannahMann]

The song tells it all.

After weeks of denial over the Lion Air crash in Indonesia Boeing and the FAA have done nothing.

Now SouthWest Airlines has determined the issue is problematic and has taken its own measures to reduce the risk of unpreventable death dive accidents.

Shame on Boeing which is delaying its actions because fixing the problems would be an admission of culpability.

A poke in the eye to all those USMB defending Boeing's and FAA's negligence.

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device to avoid a repeat of the Lion Air crash that killed 189 people
Business Insider
SINÉAD BAKER
Nov 30th 2018 12:07PM
Southwest Airlines is activating a new safety feature in its Boeing 737 Max fleet after the Indonesian government identified issues with the Lion Air plane that crashed and killed 189 people.
The government said there was an issue with the plane's Angle of Attack (AOA) system, which wrongly caused the plane's anti-stall system to kick in and push the plane's nose lower, making it harder to control.
It is not certain that AOA errors caused the crash, but it is a possibility.
Southwest is now planning on activating an additional indicator in its Boeing 737 Max planes, which would alert pilots of erroneous readings in the system.
Southwest Airlines is adding a new safety device to its fleet of Boeing 737 Max planes to avoid an incident like the Lion Air crash which killed 189 people in October.
Southwest confirmed to aviation publication The Air Current that it will activate new Angle of Attack (AOA) indicators on its planes which will warn if the sensors are giving incorrect data.
The airline said in a statement that the new measure "will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present."
The indicator is an optional additional check on the aircraft's AOA system, which senses the plane's angle and pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it is pointing too high. The system is design to prevent the plane from stalling.
However, if the system malfunctions it can push the nose down too far, forcing it into a dangerous dive which pilots may struggle to reverse.

While Southwest did not mention the fatal Lion Air crash, Indonesian investigators have said that a fault with the AOA system in the brand new Boeing 737 Max 8 may have been why the pilot was left wrestling with the controls as the plane began to speed towards the sea.
They said, however, that it is "too early to conclude" whether this issue with the system contributed to the crash.
According to video and photo footage reviewed by The Current Air, Lion Air's planes do not have the AOA indicators installed.
US aviation groups, including the Federal Aviation Authority, say that Boeing didn't tell them about new sensors in the automated anti-stall system that were added to their 737 MAX aircraft.
Boeing issued a warning for its 737 MAX 8 and 737 MAX 9 airliners after the crash, and the US Government issued an emergency airworthiness directive.
Southwest pilots were informed of the change this week, The Air Current reported. The change will begin with brand new planes from Boeing, which will come with the AOA device already installed, The Air Current said.
Southwest is also expected to fit its existing 737 MAX planes with the device, according to the report.

They aren’t adding anything, they’re activating something that is already there. Like a setting to allow the back up camera to work all the time while you are driving, not just backing up. You didn’t install anything, but instead just turned it on.

Now, I’ve said before that Boeing screwed up by not telling anyone that this feature was on the plane. I still say Boeing screwed up, and they admitted they screwed up by issuing a bulletin which was the last of your I hate Boeing threads I commented on.

But what do you want Boeing to do? They’ve already issued a bulletin on the information. Do you want them to ground all their planes? Do you want them to destroy all their aircraft? What fix do you propose? You rant and rave, but you never propose any fixes. So what fix do you think is appropriate?

Airbus had a failure of the angle of attack sensor, and the flight test crew died because of it. Was Airbus a death trap too? Or just Boeing?

The reason we aren’t taking you seriously is because you are going hyper on the propaganda. You say that Southwest installed new equipment. Well they didn’t. They activated already installed equipment. Boeing screwed up, but are we supposed to ground all 737’s forever? Boeing is working on the fix, and generally speaking, Boeing is usually pretty good about fixing flaws with their aircraft when those flaws are identified. Nothing is perfect, but Boeing is usually pretty good about finding the screwup and fixing it.

So what do you think we should do? Or what do you expect Boeing to do?

Boeing should have grounded all 737 Max aircraft until the problem was resolved to the satisfaction of the pilot's association.

OK. Let me get this straight. Statutorily, and traditionally, the NTSB which is the National Transportation Safety Board, investigates aircraft accidents, and orders grounding of aircraft for whatever reasons they have. Usually a design flaw. The FAA is the regulatory agency which as is intimated by the name of the organization, the Federal Aviation Administration, oversees certification and flight worthiness of aircraft as well as standards for operation and all of that sort of thing. Now, you want to include the Pilots Association, as if they are the ultimate and final arbiter of all things flying.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if, and only if, several accidents had not been caused by piloting mistakes that were in line with the pilots association. Including Comair flight 3272 in which the pilots, who were flying in accordance with the FAA and Pilots association standards, allowed ice to build up on the aircraft, and crashed.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR9804_body.pdf

The reason was the Pilots believed that the de-icing boots would create a “bridge” of ice, and that was more dangerous than a little ice buildup on the wings. This was a common and widely held myth that Pilots, including the pilots associations, all believed to be true. The NTSB pointed out that the FAA was negligent, and the Pilots were wrong, because the Manufacturer had written about the dangers of icing, and recommended that the de-icing systems, including the boots, should be turned on immediately when there was any risk of icing.

Yet, the airline, going with the information from the FAA, and the Pilots Association decided to allow the pilots to refuse to turn on the De-icing boots until there was an inch of ice on the plane.

Now, how is it that this amazingly competent organization, the Pilots Association, did not work tirelessly to dispel the myth that the de-icing boots would create a bridge of ice if it was used? The NTSB savaged the FAA and the Airline, and the Pilots in the final report.

Then there was UPS flight 6. The accident where we learned how dangerous Lithium Batteries really were, thanks to who? Not the Pilot’s Association. No, it was the NTSB who conducted the tests, and learned how flammable the damned things really were. Of course, for years the NTSB had been calling for FIrefighting equipment on planes, especially Cargo Planes. I don’t remember the Pilot’s Association saying they wanted that, and of course the training that would go with it. Perhaps my memory is faulty.

The NTSB has always found the root of the accidents. The NTSB is methodical, and tireless in finding all the information possible for every accident, and recreating the events, and most importantly, finding the causes, and recommending changes. Because the NTSB owes no allegiance to anyone except the Dead, and the Truth.

Letting the Pilots’ association have the final word is asinine. It is the worst possible answer. It is like the excuses from Admiral Kimmel after December 7th. He needed freedom to make his own decisions, and information to base those decisions on. We shouldn’t blame him, because Washington did not provide him with specific instructions on what was expected of him.

The Pilots Association is a union that advocates for Pilots. And that’s fine, and that’s their job. But when the Pilot is wrong, the Association will still support the pilot, because he’s a member. The NTSB plays no favorites, and has no agenda other than finding the truth, and trying to make sure the accident never happens again.

Boeing screwed up. I’m sure they had a long discussion and considered the possibility of a failure, but their models said it was unlikely in the extreme. That was the mistake. They considered the possibility of failure so unlikely as to be unworthy of consideration. Just in case, they included an option that would advise the pilots that the AOA sensors were untrustworthy. That option apparently has to be activated, and the pilots need to be trained to understand what it is doing. I’m going to quote John Young, an Astronaut. “Anyone who thinks they can estimate how likely any machine with millions of parts is going to fail is probably smoking something they shouldn’t.”

Now, this is a guess based upon his history, but I’m betting John Young would say that Boeing was negligent in not informing the pilots of the system, and what it did. Boeing probably considered it a part of the overall fly by wire computer control systems, designed to reduce the probability of Pilot Error, still the leading cause of accidents.

But you’re obviously seriously biased here. I don’t know if you own stock in Airbus, or what, but you are obviously seriously unhinged when it comes to aircraft and Boeing especially.

 

[Denizen]

The song tells it all.

After weeks of denial over the Lion Air crash in Indonesia Boeing and the FAA have done nothing.

Now SouthWest Airlines has determined the issue is problematic and has taken its own measures to reduce the risk of unpreventable death dive accidents.

Shame on Boeing which is delaying its actions because fixing the problems would be an admission of culpability.

A poke in the eye to all those USMB defending Boeing's and FAA's negligence.

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device to avoid a repeat of the Lion Air crash that killed 189 people
Business Insider
SINÉAD BAKER
Nov 30th 2018 12:07PM
Southwest Airlines is activating a new safety feature in its Boeing 737 Max fleet after the Indonesian government identified issues with the Lion Air plane that crashed and killed 189 people.
The government said there was an issue with the plane's Angle of Attack (AOA) system, which wrongly caused the plane's anti-stall system to kick in and push the plane's nose lower, making it harder to control.
It is not certain that AOA errors caused the crash, but it is a possibility.
Southwest is now planning on activating an additional indicator in its Boeing 737 Max planes, which would alert pilots of erroneous readings in the system.
Southwest Airlines is adding a new safety device to its fleet of Boeing 737 Max planes to avoid an incident like the Lion Air crash which killed 189 people in October.
Southwest confirmed to aviation publication The Air Current that it will activate new Angle of Attack (AOA) indicators on its planes which will warn if the sensors are giving incorrect data.
The airline said in a statement that the new measure "will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present."
The indicator is an optional additional check on the aircraft's AOA system, which senses the plane's angle and pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it is pointing too high. The system is design to prevent the plane from stalling.
However, if the system malfunctions it can push the nose down too far, forcing it into a dangerous dive which pilots may struggle to reverse.

While Southwest did not mention the fatal Lion Air crash, Indonesian investigators have said that a fault with the AOA system in the brand new Boeing 737 Max 8 may have been why the pilot was left wrestling with the controls as the plane began to speed towards the sea.
They said, however, that it is "too early to conclude" whether this issue with the system contributed to the crash.
According to video and photo footage reviewed by The Current Air, Lion Air's planes do not have the AOA indicators installed.
US aviation groups, including the Federal Aviation Authority, say that Boeing didn't tell them about new sensors in the automated anti-stall system that were added to their 737 MAX aircraft.
Boeing issued a warning for its 737 MAX 8 and 737 MAX 9 airliners after the crash, and the US Government issued an emergency airworthiness directive.
Southwest pilots were informed of the change this week, The Air Current reported. The change will begin with brand new planes from Boeing, which will come with the AOA device already installed, The Air Current said.
Southwest is also expected to fit its existing 737 MAX planes with the device, according to the report.

They aren’t adding anything, they’re activating something that is already there. Like a setting to allow the back up camera to work all the time while you are driving, not just backing up. You didn’t install anything, but instead just turned it on.

Now, I’ve said before that Boeing screwed up by not telling anyone that this feature was on the plane. I still say Boeing screwed up, and they admitted they screwed up by issuing a bulletin which was the last of your I hate Boeing threads I commented on.

But what do you want Boeing to do? They’ve already issued a bulletin on the information. Do you want them to ground all their planes? Do you want them to destroy all their aircraft? What fix do you propose? You rant and rave, but you never propose any fixes. So what fix do you think is appropriate?

Airbus had a failure of the angle of attack sensor, and the flight test crew died because of it. Was Airbus a death trap too? Or just Boeing?

The reason we aren’t taking you seriously is because you are going hyper on the propaganda. You say that Southwest installed new equipment. Well they didn’t. They activated already installed equipment. Boeing screwed up, but are we supposed to ground all 737’s forever? Boeing is working on the fix, and generally speaking, Boeing is usually pretty good about fixing flaws with their aircraft when those flaws are identified. Nothing is perfect, but Boeing is usually pretty good about finding the screwup and fixing it.

So what do you think we should do? Or what do you expect Boeing to do?

Boeing should have grounded all 737 Max aircraft until the problem was resolved to the satisfaction of the pilot's association.

OK. Let me get this straight. Statutorily, and traditionally, the NTSB which is the National Transportation Safety Board, investigates aircraft accidents, and orders grounding of aircraft for whatever reasons they have. Usually a design flaw. The FAA is the regulatory agency which as is intimated by the name of the organization, the Federal Aviation Administration, oversees certification and flight worthiness of aircraft as well as standards for operation and all of that sort of thing. Now, you want to include the Pilots Association, as if they are the ultimate and final arbiter of all things flying.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if, and only if, several accidents had not been caused by piloting mistakes that were in line with the pilots association. Including Comair flight 3272 in which the pilots, who were flying in accordance with the FAA and Pilots association standards, allowed ice to build up on the aircraft, and crashed.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR9804_body.pdf

The reason was the Pilots believed that the de-icing boots would create a “bridge” of ice, and that was more dangerous than a little ice buildup on the wings. This was a common and widely held myth that Pilots, including the pilots associations, all believed to be true. The NTSB pointed out that the FAA was negligent, and the Pilots were wrong, because the Manufacturer had written about the dangers of icing, and recommended that the de-icing systems, including the boots, should be turned on immediately when there was any risk of icing.

Yet, the airline, going with the information from the FAA, and the Pilots Association decided to allow the pilots to refuse to turn on the De-icing boots until there was an inch of ice on the plane.

Now, how is it that this amazingly competent organization, the Pilots Association, did not work tirelessly to dispel the myth that the de-icing boots would create a bridge of ice if it was used? The NTSB savaged the FAA and the Airline, and the Pilots in the final report.

Then there was UPS flight 6. The accident where we learned how dangerous Lithium Batteries really were, thanks to who? Not the Pilot’s Association. No, it was the NTSB who conducted the tests, and learned how flammable the damned things really were. Of course, for years the NTSB had been calling for FIrefighting equipment on planes, especially Cargo Planes. I don’t remember the Pilot’s Association saying they wanted that, and of course the training that would go with it. Perhaps my memory is faulty.

The NTSB has always found the root of the accidents. The NTSB is methodical, and tireless in finding all the information possible for every accident, and recreating the events, and most importantly, finding the causes, and recommending changes. Because the NTSB owes no allegiance to anyone except the Dead, and the Truth.

Letting the Pilots’ association have the final word is asinine. It is the worst possible answer. It is like the excuses from Admiral Kimmel after December 7th. He needed freedom to make his own decisions, and information to base those decisions on. We shouldn’t blame him, because Washington did not provide him with specific instructions on what was expected of him.

The Pilots Association is a union that advocates for Pilots. And that’s fine, and that’s their job. But when the Pilot is wrong, the Association will still support the pilot, because he’s a member. The NTSB plays no favorites, and has no agenda other than finding the truth, and trying to make sure the accident never happens again.

Boeing screwed up. I’m sure they had a long discussion and considered the possibility of a failure, but their models said it was unlikely in the extreme. That was the mistake. They considered the possibility of failure so unlikely as to be unworthy of consideration. Just in case, they included an option that would advise the pilots that the AOA sensors were untrustworthy. That option apparently has to be activated, and the pilots need to be trained to understand what it is doing. I’m going to quote John Young, an Astronaut. “Anyone who thinks they can estimate how likely any machine with millions of parts is going to fail is probably smoking something they shouldn’t.”

Now, this is a guess based upon his history, but I’m betting John Young would say that Boeing was negligent in not informing the pilots of the system, and what it did. Boeing probably considered it a part of the overall fly by wire computer control systems, designed to reduce the probability of Pilot Error, still the leading cause of accidents.

But you’re obviously seriously biased here. I don’t know if you own stock in Airbus, or what, but you are obviously seriously unhinged when it comes to aircraft and Boeing especially.

You evidently work for r have an interest in Boeing.

 

[Manonthestreet]

How is this a fix if the main one is in charge and starts pushing nose down.

 

[Maxdeath]

The song tells it all.

After weeks of denial over the Lion Air crash in Indonesia Boeing and the FAA have done nothing.

Now SouthWest Airlines has determined the issue is problematic and has taken its own measures to reduce the risk of unpreventable death dive accidents.

Shame on Boeing which is delaying its actions because fixing the problems would be an admission of culpability.

A poke in the eye to all those USMB defending Boeing's and FAA's negligence.

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device to avoid a repeat of the Lion Air crash that killed 189 people
Business Insider
SINÉAD BAKER
Nov 30th 2018 12:07PM
Southwest Airlines is activating a new safety feature in its Boeing 737 Max fleet after the Indonesian government identified issues with the Lion Air plane that crashed and killed 189 people.
The government said there was an issue with the plane's Angle of Attack (AOA) system, which wrongly caused the plane's anti-stall system to kick in and push the plane's nose lower, making it harder to control.
It is not certain that AOA errors caused the crash, but it is a possibility.
Southwest is now planning on activating an additional indicator in its Boeing 737 Max planes, which would alert pilots of erroneous readings in the system.
Southwest Airlines is adding a new safety device to its fleet of Boeing 737 Max planes to avoid an incident like the Lion Air crash which killed 189 people in October.
Southwest confirmed to aviation publication The Air Current that it will activate new Angle of Attack (AOA) indicators on its planes which will warn if the sensors are giving incorrect data.
The airline said in a statement that the new measure "will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present."
The indicator is an optional additional check on the aircraft's AOA system, which senses the plane's angle and pushes the nose of the aircraft down if it is pointing too high. The system is design to prevent the plane from stalling.
However, if the system malfunctions it can push the nose down too far, forcing it into a dangerous dive which pilots may struggle to reverse.

While Southwest did not mention the fatal Lion Air crash, Indonesian investigators have said that a fault with the AOA system in the brand new Boeing 737 Max 8 may have been why the pilot was left wrestling with the controls as the plane began to speed towards the sea.
They said, however, that it is "too early to conclude" whether this issue with the system contributed to the crash.
According to video and photo footage reviewed by The Current Air, Lion Air's planes do not have the AOA indicators installed.
US aviation groups, including the Federal Aviation Authority, say that Boeing didn't tell them about new sensors in the automated anti-stall system that were added to their 737 MAX aircraft.
Boeing issued a warning for its 737 MAX 8 and 737 MAX 9 airliners after the crash, and the US Government issued an emergency airworthiness directive.
Southwest pilots were informed of the change this week, The Air Current reported. The change will begin with brand new planes from Boeing, which will come with the AOA device already installed, The Air Current said.
Southwest is also expected to fit its existing 737 MAX planes with the device, according to the report.

They aren’t adding anything, they’re activating something that is already there. Like a setting to allow the back up camera to work all the time while you are driving, not just backing up. You didn’t install anything, but instead just turned it on.

Now, I’ve said before that Boeing screwed up by not telling anyone that this feature was on the plane. I still say Boeing screwed up, and they admitted they screwed up by issuing a bulletin which was the last of your I hate Boeing threads I commented on.

But what do you want Boeing to do? They’ve already issued a bulletin on the information. Do you want them to ground all their planes? Do you want them to destroy all their aircraft? What fix do you propose? You rant and rave, but you never propose any fixes. So what fix do you think is appropriate?

Airbus had a failure of the angle of attack sensor, and the flight test crew died because of it. Was Airbus a death trap too? Or just Boeing?

The reason we aren’t taking you seriously is because you are going hyper on the propaganda. You say that Southwest installed new equipment. Well they didn’t. They activated already installed equipment. Boeing screwed up, but are we supposed to ground all 737’s forever? Boeing is working on the fix, and generally speaking, Boeing is usually pretty good about fixing flaws with their aircraft when those flaws are identified. Nothing is perfect, but Boeing is usually pretty good about finding the screwup and fixing it.

So what do you think we should do? Or what do you expect Boeing to do?

Boeing should have grounded all 737 Max aircraft until the problem was resolved to the satisfaction of the pilot's association.

OK. Let me get this straight. Statutorily, and traditionally, the NTSB which is the National Transportation Safety Board, investigates aircraft accidents, and orders grounding of aircraft for whatever reasons they have. Usually a design flaw. The FAA is the regulatory agency which as is intimated by the name of the organization, the Federal Aviation Administration, oversees certification and flight worthiness of aircraft as well as standards for operation and all of that sort of thing. Now, you want to include the Pilots Association, as if they are the ultimate and final arbiter of all things flying.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if, and only if, several accidents had not been caused by piloting mistakes that were in line with the pilots association. Including Comair flight 3272 in which the pilots, who were flying in accordance with the FAA and Pilots association standards, allowed ice to build up on the aircraft, and crashed.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR9804_body.pdf

The reason was the Pilots believed that the de-icing boots would create a “bridge” of ice, and that was more dangerous than a little ice buildup on the wings. This was a common and widely held myth that Pilots, including the pilots associations, all believed to be true. The NTSB pointed out that the FAA was negligent, and the Pilots were wrong, because the Manufacturer had written about the dangers of icing, and recommended that the de-icing systems, including the boots, should be turned on immediately when there was any risk of icing.

Yet, the airline, going with the information from the FAA, and the Pilots Association decided to allow the pilots to refuse to turn on the De-icing boots until there was an inch of ice on the plane.

Now, how is it that this amazingly competent organization, the Pilots Association, did not work tirelessly to dispel the myth that the de-icing boots would create a bridge of ice if it was used? The NTSB savaged the FAA and the Airline, and the Pilots in the final report.

Then there was UPS flight 6. The accident where we learned how dangerous Lithium Batteries really were, thanks to who? Not the Pilot’s Association. No, it was the NTSB who conducted the tests, and learned how flammable the damned things really were. Of course, for years the NTSB had been calling for FIrefighting equipment on planes, especially Cargo Planes. I don’t remember the Pilot’s Association saying they wanted that, and of course the training that would go with it. Perhaps my memory is faulty.

The NTSB has always found the root of the accidents. The NTSB is methodical, and tireless in finding all the information possible for every accident, and recreating the events, and most importantly, finding the causes, and recommending changes. Because the NTSB owes no allegiance to anyone except the Dead, and the Truth.

Letting the Pilots’ association have the final word is asinine. It is the worst possible answer. It is like the excuses from Admiral Kimmel after December 7th. He needed freedom to make his own decisions, and information to base those decisions on. We shouldn’t blame him, because Washington did not provide him with specific instructions on what was expected of him.

The Pilots Association is a union that advocates for Pilots. And that’s fine, and that’s their job. But when the Pilot is wrong, the Association will still support the pilot, because he’s a member. The NTSB plays no favorites, and has no agenda other than finding the truth, and trying to make sure the accident never happens again.

Boeing screwed up. I’m sure they had a long discussion and considered the possibility of a failure, but their models said it was unlikely in the extreme. That was the mistake. They considered the possibility of failure so unlikely as to be unworthy of consideration. Just in case, they included an option that would advise the pilots that the AOA sensors were untrustworthy. That option apparently has to be activated, and the pilots need to be trained to understand what it is doing. I’m going to quote John Young, an Astronaut. “Anyone who thinks they can estimate how likely any machine with millions of parts is going to fail is probably smoking something they shouldn’t.”

Now, this is a guess based upon his history, but I’m betting John Young would say that Boeing was negligent in not informing the pilots of the system, and what it did. Boeing probably considered it a part of the overall fly by wire computer control systems, designed to reduce the probability of Pilot Error, still the leading cause of accidents.

But you’re obviously seriously biased here. I don’t know if you own stock in Airbus, or what, but you are obviously seriously unhinged when it comes to aircraft and Boeing especially.

You evidently work for r have an interest in Boeing.

Let's face it you are wrong. Have been wrong will be wrong.

You have been told what happened but you refuse to accept that you are wrong.

 

[Denizen]

The song tells it all.

After weeks of denial over the Lion Air crash in Indonesia Boeing and the FAA have done nothing.

Now SouthWest Airlines has determined the issue is problematic and has taken its own measures to reduce the risk of unpreventable death dive accidents.

Shame on Boeing which is delaying its actions because fixing the problems would be an admission of culpability.

A poke in the eye to all those USMB defending Boeing's and FAA's negligence.

Southwest fits all its Boeing 737 MAX planes with new safety device

They aren’t adding anything, they’re activating something that is already there. Like a setting to allow the back up camera to work all the time while you are driving, not just backing up. You didn’t install anything, but instead just turned it on.

Now, I’ve said before that Boeing screwed up by not telling anyone that this feature was on the plane. I still say Boeing screwed up, and they admitted they screwed up by issuing a bulletin which was the last of your I hate Boeing threads I commented on.

But what do you want Boeing to do? They’ve already issued a bulletin on the information. Do you want them to ground all their planes? Do you want them to destroy all their aircraft? What fix do you propose? You rant and rave, but you never propose any fixes. So what fix do you think is appropriate?

Airbus had a failure of the angle of attack sensor, and the flight test crew died because of it. Was Airbus a death trap too? Or just Boeing?

The reason we aren’t taking you seriously is because you are going hyper on the propaganda. You say that Southwest installed new equipment. Well they didn’t. They activated already installed equipment. Boeing screwed up, but are we supposed to ground all 737’s forever? Boeing is working on the fix, and generally speaking, Boeing is usually pretty good about fixing flaws with their aircraft when those flaws are identified. Nothing is perfect, but Boeing is usually pretty good about finding the screwup and fixing it.

So what do you think we should do? Or what do you expect Boeing to do?

Boeing should have grounded all 737 Max aircraft until the problem was resolved to the satisfaction of the pilot's association.

OK. Let me get this straight. Statutorily, and traditionally, the NTSB which is the National Transportation Safety Board, investigates aircraft accidents, and orders grounding of aircraft for whatever reasons they have. Usually a design flaw. The FAA is the regulatory agency which as is intimated by the name of the organization, the Federal Aviation Administration, oversees certification and flight worthiness of aircraft as well as standards for operation and all of that sort of thing. Now, you want to include the Pilots Association, as if they are the ultimate and final arbiter of all things flying.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if, and only if, several accidents had not been caused by piloting mistakes that were in line with the pilots association. Including Comair flight 3272 in which the pilots, who were flying in accordance with the FAA and Pilots association standards, allowed ice to build up on the aircraft, and crashed.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR9804_body.pdf

The reason was the Pilots believed that the de-icing boots would create a “bridge” of ice, and that was more dangerous than a little ice buildup on the wings. This was a common and widely held myth that Pilots, including the pilots associations, all believed to be true. The NTSB pointed out that the FAA was negligent, and the Pilots were wrong, because the Manufacturer had written about the dangers of icing, and recommended that the de-icing systems, including the boots, should be turned on immediately when there was any risk of icing.

Yet, the airline, going with the information from the FAA, and the Pilots Association decided to allow the pilots to refuse to turn on the De-icing boots until there was an inch of ice on the plane.

Now, how is it that this amazingly competent organization, the Pilots Association, did not work tirelessly to dispel the myth that the de-icing boots would create a bridge of ice if it was used? The NTSB savaged the FAA and the Airline, and the Pilots in the final report.

Then there was UPS flight 6. The accident where we learned how dangerous Lithium Batteries really were, thanks to who? Not the Pilot’s Association. No, it was the NTSB who conducted the tests, and learned how flammable the damned things really were. Of course, for years the NTSB had been calling for FIrefighting equipment on planes, especially Cargo Planes. I don’t remember the Pilot’s Association saying they wanted that, and of course the training that would go with it. Perhaps my memory is faulty.

The NTSB has always found the root of the accidents. The NTSB is methodical, and tireless in finding all the information possible for every accident, and recreating the events, and most importantly, finding the causes, and recommending changes. Because the NTSB owes no allegiance to anyone except the Dead, and the Truth.

Letting the Pilots’ association have the final word is asinine. It is the worst possible answer. It is like the excuses from Admiral Kimmel after December 7th. He needed freedom to make his own decisions, and information to base those decisions on. We shouldn’t blame him, because Washington did not provide him with specific instructions on what was expected of him.

The Pilots Association is a union that advocates for Pilots. And that’s fine, and that’s their job. But when the Pilot is wrong, the Association will still support the pilot, because he’s a member. The NTSB plays no favorites, and has no agenda other than finding the truth, and trying to make sure the accident never happens again.

Boeing screwed up. I’m sure they had a long discussion and considered the possibility of a failure, but their models said it was unlikely in the extreme. That was the mistake. They considered the possibility of failure so unlikely as to be unworthy of consideration. Just in case, they included an option that would advise the pilots that the AOA sensors were untrustworthy. That option apparently has to be activated, and the pilots need to be trained to understand what it is doing. I’m going to quote John Young, an Astronaut. “Anyone who thinks they can estimate how likely any machine with millions of parts is going to fail is probably smoking something they shouldn’t.”

Now, this is a guess based upon his history, but I’m betting John Young would say that Boeing was negligent in not informing the pilots of the system, and what it did. Boeing probably considered it a part of the overall fly by wire computer control systems, designed to reduce the probability of Pilot Error, still the leading cause of accidents.

But you’re obviously seriously biased here. I don’t know if you own stock in Airbus, or what, but you are obviously seriously unhinged when it comes to aircraft and Boeing especially.

You evidently work for r have an interest in Boeing.

Let's face it you are wrong. Have been wrong will be wrong.

You have been told what happened but you refuse to accept that you are wrong.

Thank you Donald Trump.

You have the credibility a surreptitous anus gas distributor.

 

[eagle1462010]

Sounds like an auto pilot computer malfunction............Why isn't there a bypass switch...........and if the thing is dangerous it should be snatched out of every aircraft...................

How about a novel idea.................don't let a computer fly your dang plane...........let the pilots do it.

 

[Maxdeath]

They aren’t adding anything, they’re activating something that is already there. Like a setting to allow the back up camera to work all the time while you are driving, not just backing up. You didn’t install anything, but instead just turned it on.

Now, I’ve said before that Boeing screwed up by not telling anyone that this feature was on the plane. I still say Boeing screwed up, and they admitted they screwed up by issuing a bulletin which was the last of your I hate Boeing threads I commented on.

But what do you want Boeing to do? They’ve already issued a bulletin on the information. Do you want them to ground all their planes? Do you want them to destroy all their aircraft? What fix do you propose? You rant and rave, but you never propose any fixes. So what fix do you think is appropriate?

Airbus had a failure of the angle of attack sensor, and the flight test crew died because of it. Was Airbus a death trap too? Or just Boeing?

The reason we aren’t taking you seriously is because you are going hyper on the propaganda. You say that Southwest installed new equipment. Well they didn’t. They activated already installed equipment. Boeing screwed up, but are we supposed to ground all 737’s forever? Boeing is working on the fix, and generally speaking, Boeing is usually pretty good about fixing flaws with their aircraft when those flaws are identified. Nothing is perfect, but Boeing is usually pretty good about finding the screwup and fixing it.

So what do you think we should do? Or what do you expect Boeing to do?

Boeing should have grounded all 737 Max aircraft until the problem was resolved to the satisfaction of the pilot's association.

OK. Let me get this straight. Statutorily, and traditionally, the NTSB which is the National Transportation Safety Board, investigates aircraft accidents, and orders grounding of aircraft for whatever reasons they have. Usually a design flaw. The FAA is the regulatory agency which as is intimated by the name of the organization, the Federal Aviation Administration, oversees certification and flight worthiness of aircraft as well as standards for operation and all of that sort of thing. Now, you want to include the Pilots Association, as if they are the ultimate and final arbiter of all things flying.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if, and only if, several accidents had not been caused by piloting mistakes that were in line with the pilots association. Including Comair flight 3272 in which the pilots, who were flying in accordance with the FAA and Pilots association standards, allowed ice to build up on the aircraft, and crashed.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR9804_body.pdf

The reason was the Pilots believed that the de-icing boots would create a “bridge” of ice, and that was more dangerous than a little ice buildup on the wings. This was a common and widely held myth that Pilots, including the pilots associations, all believed to be true. The NTSB pointed out that the FAA was negligent, and the Pilots were wrong, because the Manufacturer had written about the dangers of icing, and recommended that the de-icing systems, including the boots, should be turned on immediately when there was any risk of icing.

Yet, the airline, going with the information from the FAA, and the Pilots Association decided to allow the pilots to refuse to turn on the De-icing boots until there was an inch of ice on the plane.

Now, how is it that this amazingly competent organization, the Pilots Association, did not work tirelessly to dispel the myth that the de-icing boots would create a bridge of ice if it was used? The NTSB savaged the FAA and the Airline, and the Pilots in the final report.

Then there was UPS flight 6. The accident where we learned how dangerous Lithium Batteries really were, thanks to who? Not the Pilot’s Association. No, it was the NTSB who conducted the tests, and learned how flammable the damned things really were. Of course, for years the NTSB had been calling for FIrefighting equipment on planes, especially Cargo Planes. I don’t remember the Pilot’s Association saying they wanted that, and of course the training that would go with it. Perhaps my memory is faulty.

The NTSB has always found the root of the accidents. The NTSB is methodical, and tireless in finding all the information possible for every accident, and recreating the events, and most importantly, finding the causes, and recommending changes. Because the NTSB owes no allegiance to anyone except the Dead, and the Truth.

Letting the Pilots’ association have the final word is asinine. It is the worst possible answer. It is like the excuses from Admiral Kimmel after December 7th. He needed freedom to make his own decisions, and information to base those decisions on. We shouldn’t blame him, because Washington did not provide him with specific instructions on what was expected of him.

The Pilots Association is a union that advocates for Pilots. And that’s fine, and that’s their job. But when the Pilot is wrong, the Association will still support the pilot, because he’s a member. The NTSB plays no favorites, and has no agenda other than finding the truth, and trying to make sure the accident never happens again.

Boeing screwed up. I’m sure they had a long discussion and considered the possibility of a failure, but their models said it was unlikely in the extreme. That was the mistake. They considered the possibility of failure so unlikely as to be unworthy of consideration. Just in case, they included an option that would advise the pilots that the AOA sensors were untrustworthy. That option apparently has to be activated, and the pilots need to be trained to understand what it is doing. I’m going to quote John Young, an Astronaut. “Anyone who thinks they can estimate how likely any machine with millions of parts is going to fail is probably smoking something they shouldn’t.”

Now, this is a guess based upon his history, but I’m betting John Young would say that Boeing was negligent in not informing the pilots of the system, and what it did. Boeing probably considered it a part of the overall fly by wire computer control systems, designed to reduce the probability of Pilot Error, still the leading cause of accidents.

But you’re obviously seriously biased here. I don’t know if you own stock in Airbus, or what, but you are obviously seriously unhinged when it comes to aircraft and Boeing especially.

You evidently work for r have an interest in Boeing.

Let's face it you are wrong. Have been wrong will be wrong.

You have been told what happened but you refuse to accept that you are wrong.

Thank you Donald Trump.

You have the credibility a surreptitous anus gas distributor.

I see you have the left play book down pat. Care to follow through with more from it?

Do you have anything other then an uninformed opinion to go against facts?

 

[harmonica]

the aircraft that flew the day before fixed the problem per the manual
the AOA sensor on the doomed aircraft had been replaced/had problems

Investigators who analyzed the jet's flight data recorder (FDR) after the October 29 crash said there were problems with the air speed indicator on the past three flights before the crash

n its statement on Wednesday, Boeing said that the Indonesian transport committee had indicated that Flight 610 had "experienced erroneous input from one of its AOA sensors."

Lion Air: Sensor was replaced day before crash but problems persisted - CNN
most air crashes are human error

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

Not a plane but we have a Toyota Sequoia which has a vehicle track system...........Causes the wheels to turn faster or slower in a curve.................Safety device to stop roll overs..................Only problem is when the system fails it does the same thing on a straight flat highway and tries to take you off the road............Which has caused people to wreck.......

So we went in to get it fixed...........Then the Toyota folks replace the wrong sensors...........does the same thing......so back it goes and we had to fight them not to charge us for replacing the other 2 sensors..............

Needless to say.........I'd rather not have something that when it malfunctions could kill you...............Sometimes safety devices are simply too many whistles and bells...........

 

[harmonica]

Not a plane but we have a Toyota Sequoia which has a vehicle track system...........Causes the wheels to turn faster or slower in a curve.................Safety device to stop roll overs..................Only problem is when the system fails it does the same thing on a straight flat highway and tries to take you off the road............Which has caused people to wreck.......

So we went in to get it fixed...........Then the Toyota folks replace the wrong sensors...........does the same thing......so back it goes and we had to fight them not to charge us for replacing the other 2 sensors..............

Needless to say.........I'd rather not have something that when it malfunctions could kill you...............Sometimes safety devices are simply too many whistles and bells...........

most air disasters are human error
2 famous crashes were because of stalling
Colgan Air Flight 3407 - Wikipedia

..this one is classic..the stall warning ''STALL'' sounded numerous times, but the pilots kept pulling the nose UP! --the pitot tubes were iced--but the head pilot knew pulling up was wrong
....so they are trying to keep stalls from happening
...since most air disasters are human error, you would think putting in safety features is good....seems like no matter what they do, the humans will mess up
Air France Flight 447 - Wikipedia

 

[eagle1462010]

Not a plane but we have a Toyota Sequoia which has a vehicle track system...........Causes the wheels to turn faster or slower in a curve.................Safety device to stop roll overs..................Only problem is when the system fails it does the same thing on a straight flat highway and tries to take you off the road............Which has caused people to wreck.......

So we went in to get it fixed...........Then the Toyota folks replace the wrong sensors...........does the same thing......so back it goes and we had to fight them not to charge us for replacing the other 2 sensors..............

Needless to say.........I'd rather not have something that when it malfunctions could kill you...............Sometimes safety devices are simply too many whistles and bells...........

most air disasters are human error
2 famous crashes were because of stalling
Colgan Air Flight 3407 - Wikipedia

..this one is classic..the stall warning ''STALL'' sounded numerous times, but the pilots kept pulling the nose UP! --the pitot tubes were iced--but the head pilot knew pulling up was wrong
....so they are trying to keep stalls from happening
...since most air disasters are human error, you would think putting in safety features is good....seems like no matter what they do, the humans will mess up
Air France Flight 447 - Wikipedia

Works both ways...................according to this crash the AOA failed and crashed the plane............the pilot didn't disable the Auto pilot and take back control.............or did he............you tell me.............and by the time he did it was an uncontrollable dive.............

While most pilot errors are the cause...........computer systems can crash the plane as well.......and in this case it did.
Now we could say the pilot screwed up because he didn't kill the auto pilot..............or maybe he did and it didn't work.........That I don't know.

In regards to our Toyota...........the dang system didn't care what the hell you did.......it was going to drive you off the road if it could........but you just steer against it..................That is a problem and a problem when automation fails.

3 mile Island was part man and part automation..............so many whistles and bells that the operators couldn't tell what was really going on when the automation fails.............by then it was too late.

 

[eagle1462010]

When shit hits the fan...............final moments of a stuck accelerator right before the entire family died............

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

You evidently work for r have an interest in Boeing.

And you evidently work for or have an interest in Airbus.

Or, more likely, you just hate American greatness.

 

[harmonica]

Not a plane but we have a Toyota Sequoia which has a vehicle track system...........Causes the wheels to turn faster or slower in a curve.................Safety device to stop roll overs..................Only problem is when the system fails it does the same thing on a straight flat highway and tries to take you off the road............Which has caused people to wreck.......

So we went in to get it fixed...........Then the Toyota folks replace the wrong sensors...........does the same thing......so back it goes and we had to fight them not to charge us for replacing the other 2 sensors..............

Needless to say.........I'd rather not have something that when it malfunctions could kill you...............Sometimes safety devices are simply too many whistles and bells...........

most air disasters are human error
2 famous crashes were because of stalling
Colgan Air Flight 3407 - Wikipedia

..this one is classic..the stall warning ''STALL'' sounded numerous times, but the pilots kept pulling the nose UP! --the pitot tubes were iced--but the head pilot knew pulling up was wrong
....so they are trying to keep stalls from happening
...since most air disasters are human error, you would think putting in safety features is good....seems like no matter what they do, the humans will mess up
Air France Flight 447 - Wikipedia

Works both ways...................according to this crash the AOA failed and crashed the plane............the pilot didn't disable the Auto pilot and take back control.............or did he............you tell me.............and by the time he did it was an uncontrollable dive.............

While most pilot errors are the cause...........computer systems can crash the plane as well.......and in this case it did.
Now we could say the pilot screwed up because he didn't kill the auto pilot..............or maybe he did and it didn't work.........That I don't know.

In regards to our Toyota...........the dang system didn't care what the hell you did.......it was going to drive you off the road if it could........but you just steer against it..................That is a problem and a problem when automation fails.

3 mile Island was part man and part automation..............so many whistles and bells that the operators couldn't tell what was really going on when the automation fails.............by then it was too late.

if I'm not mistaken, most air crashes are human error

Boeing noted that the crew of the plane’s previous flight one day earlier had responded correctly to the automatic nose-down pitch and flew the plane manually

Sensors that measure speed were flushed and checked, and an electrical plug was cleaned before the fatal flight. Mechanics, however, did not check sensors that measure whether the nose of the plane is pointing up or down.

as in most other disasters, we'll have to wait for the full report/facts
Before Lion Air plane crashed, pilots struggled to fix faulty sensor

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

You evidently work for r have an interest in Boeing.

Or you just realized he owned your ass and you're walking away with your tail between your legs like the dishonest and dishonorable hack you are.

 

[harmonica]

the airline pilot forum in this link gets very in depth
Lion Air 737 Max Accident - Airline Pilot Central Forums