Bloomberg, Smoking, and Hypocrisy

[Shogun]

I'm afraid that it does.

Maybe Rand Paul can explain it to you
"Your choice to enter a public place doesn't trump the prerogative of the business owner whose entire purpose is to choose which clientele he wants to offer services to."

Just like business owners could not say "I choose to not serve blacks at my lunch counter" they do not get to choose who may come into their bar.

race is a federally protected class. Being an asshole pink lunger isn't. Be glad that you don't walk into my bar; the first time you complained about smoking would be the last time you set foot into my business.

Where is your bar?

Do you serve gays?
The handicapped?
Blacks?

Do you get to decide that certain patrons get to endanger the health of other patrons?

handicapped are a protected status. As is race. Again, being an asshole pink lunger is not. Be glad you do not live in mid missouri or you might get to discover what "We retain the right to refuse service" means.

 

[rightwinger]

race is a federally protected class. Being an asshole pink lunger isn't. Be glad that you don't walk into my bar; the first time you complained about smoking would be the last time you set foot into my business.

Where is your bar?

Do you serve gays?
The handicapped?
Blacks?

Do you get to decide that certain patrons get to endanger the health of other patrons?

handicapped are a protected status. As is race. Again, being an asshole pink lunger is not. Be glad you do not live in mid missouri or you might get to discover what "We retain the right to refuse service" means.

"We retain the right to provide a health threatening environment in our establishment"

 

[Shogun]

Where is your bar?

Do you serve gays?
The handicapped?
Blacks?

Do you get to decide that certain patrons get to endanger the health of other patrons?

handicapped are a protected status. As is race. Again, being an asshole pink lunger is not. Be glad you do not live in mid missouri or you might get to discover what "We retain the right to refuse service" means.

"We retain the right to provide a health threatening environment in our establishment"

Liberty in America: love it or leave it.




You can cry about your pink lungs in some other bar after you get das boot and find yourself on the sidewalk after crying like a bitch. Indeed, the smoker may come back inside... you, however, can take your ass to applebees.

 

[MaggieMae]

I'm a liberal who is all for promoting the prerogative of business owners who want to cater to smokers, be they hookah smokers, pot smokers, or camel smokers.

Me too. But that doesn't mean I don't get why they want to ban it from bars, restaurants, etc. One of the main reasons I decided to quit (not that long ago) is because they are so fucking filthy. I got sick of washing brown crap off my windows, my clothes smelling like they were bought in a tobacco shop, ashes all over my car. I figure all those things are what non-smokers who came near me put up with too. But I'm also from the era where just about everybody smoked, and you could smoke everywhere (even hospital rooms). These days, the younger generations aren't smoking as much and many of my own generation have quit, so there are more non-smokers than smokers. It is what it is. We had a good run, but we lost!!

 

[MaggieMae]

After being caught off guard when the city’s health commissioner first proposed the idea, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said on Tuesday that he was leaning toward seeking a ban on smoking at city parks and beaches.

Mr. Bloomberg said the ban made sense because it would cut the health risks of secondhand smoke and reduce littering by smokers.

“We’re talking about banning smoking on beaches and in parks, and it’s partially because you can breathe the air,” Mr. Bloomberg said when he was asked about a ban. “It’s in the open air, but the air wafts in your direction. But it is also because people take their cigarette butts and the packages and just throw them away.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/nyregion/07smoke.html

FYI - Smoking is still permissable in NYC Hookah Bars. Doesn't Bloomberg "care" about those folks? Irish bars - no. Middle Eastern bars - fine.

Here in Michigan they just made it illegal to smoke in Bars and Restaurants. Not sure about the Restaurants but there is story after story in the local papers about Bars that are seeing 70, and 80% drops in Business.

Just more Economic Damage in the name of Nobel Ideas.

There's always an initial dropoff in business, but eventually it levels out. California has had a no-smoking in public places ban for decades. Vermont's has been in place for about six years, and there was the usual boycotting, but people get used to it in no time and start returning.

 

[Shogun]

I'm a liberal who is all for promoting the prerogative of business owners who want to cater to smokers, be they hookah smokers, pot smokers, or camel smokers.

Me too. But that doesn't mean I don't get why they want to ban it from bars, restaurants, etc. One of the main reasons I decided to quit (not that long ago) is because they are so fucking filthy. I got sick of washing brown crap off my windows, my clothes smelling like they were bought in a tobacco shop, ashes all over my car. I figure all those things are what non-smokers who came near me put up with too. But I'm also from the era where just about everybody smoked, and you could smoke everywhere (even hospital rooms). These days, the younger generations aren't smoking as much and many of my own generation have quit, so there are more non-smokers than smokers. It is what it is. We had a good run, but we lost!!

it's not a matter of "lost" so much as it is a waxing and waning of political power. As I said, this type of restriction is exactly the kind that causes people to balk at liberal politics and replaces dems with reps. No one is asking to smoke in hospitals; however, to deny that smoking bans in bars tramples on the liberty of business owners and their clients while limiting the range of consumer choices is asinine. Case in point, Missouri is a notorious bellweather state. Along the i-70 corridor we've banned smoking in bars. Next thing you know Missouri breaks with what would have been more electoral college votes for the democrat. No, it's not a matter of losing this one so much as it is a matter of waiting out liberals in office until the next election. This issue alone causes me to look elsewhere than democrats touting liberal ideas... and I'm liberal as fuck.

 

[MaggieMae]

Reuters) - New York state's cigarette tax revenue from convenience stores fell in the first six weeks after a steep tax increase, as consumers turned to Native American reservation stores, a convenience store group said on Wednesday.

New York state boosted the cigarette tax to $4.35 a pack from $2.75 on July 1 as one of a series of measures designed to help close a $9.2 billion deficit for fiscal 2011, giving it the highest cigarette tax rate in the country.

With the per-pack price rising to a range of $9 to $12, "aghast" smokers flocked to tribal stores, which are tax-free, the black market, and border states with lower cigarette taxes, said the New York Association of Convenience Stores.

Convenience stores that are located close to reservation competitors sold 45 percent fewer cigarettes; more distant stores experienced drops of 25 percent to 35 percent, the lobbying group said.

NY state cigarette tax hike burns collections: group | Reuters

Declining cigarette sales and disputes over how much tobacco companies owe to U.S. states may cause more than $12 billion of defaults on related bonds issued by California, New York City, New Jersey, Ohio and Virginia.

Defaults on securities that are backed only by the tobacco- company payments and were issued in 2006 and 2007 “could start occurring as early as 2030,” according a report by Richard Larkin, a senior vice-president at Herbert J. Sims & Co.

As cigarette sales fall, states are collecting less money and aren’t able to repay tobacco securities as rapidly as was projected when they were sold. Repayment of Buckeye Ohio Tobacco Settlement Finance Authority’s 5 1/8 bonds due in 2024 was expected by 2017, according to the official statement when they were sold in 2007.

Cigarette Sales Drop Points to $12 Billion Tobacco Bond Defaults - Bloomberg

Unintended consequences. Or maybe not...

The PACK ACT which was recently signed into law has a lot of smokers who ordered by mail from Indian reservations in an uproar. The Seneca Tribe in upstate New York has sued the federal government over their sovereignty rights and had been given a TRO against the government from confiscating tobacco products shipped by mail as contraband. I think they had until the end of July to continue filling orders, and don't know what the latest action is. But the lawsuit may set a precedent and overturn the PACK Act.

 

[Shogun]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/nyregion/07smoke.html

FYI - Smoking is still permissable in NYC Hookah Bars. Doesn't Bloomberg "care" about those folks? Irish bars - no. Middle Eastern bars - fine.

Here in Michigan they just made it illegal to smoke in Bars and Restaurants. Not sure about the Restaurants but there is story after story in the local papers about Bars that are seeing 70, and 80% drops in Business.

Just more Economic Damage in the name of Nobel Ideas.

There's always an initial dropoff in business, but eventually it levels out. California has had a no-smoking in public places ban for decades. Vermont's has been in place for about six years, and there was the usual boycotting, but people get used to it in no time and start returning.

California is notoriously liberal anyway. I'm sure wheetgrass sales are through the roof in that state... but it's really not indicative of anything in America.

I can post plenty of testimony by businesses whose income has suffered because of smoking bans. Fabricated statistics means very little to bar owners who close their doors because their clientele chooses to stay home and drink because they can smoke on their own property without some dickhead's opinion creeping into the choice to partake.

 

[rightwinger]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/nyregion/07smoke.html

FYI - Smoking is still permissable in NYC Hookah Bars. Doesn't Bloomberg "care" about those folks? Irish bars - no. Middle Eastern bars - fine.

Here in Michigan they just made it illegal to smoke in Bars and Restaurants. Not sure about the Restaurants but there is story after story in the local papers about Bars that are seeing 70, and 80% drops in Business.

Just more Economic Damage in the name of Nobel Ideas.

There's always an initial dropoff in business, but eventually it levels out. California has had a no-smoking in public places ban for decades. Vermont's has been in place for about six years, and there was the usual boycotting, but people get used to it in no time and start returning.

Once they banned smoking in elevators there was no dropoff in ridership

 

[Shogun]

Here in Michigan they just made it illegal to smoke in Bars and Restaurants. Not sure about the Restaurants but there is story after story in the local papers about Bars that are seeing 70, and 80% drops in Business.

Just more Economic Damage in the name of Nobel Ideas.

There's always an initial dropoff in business, but eventually it levels out. California has had a no-smoking in public places ban for decades. Vermont's has been in place for about six years, and there was the usual boycotting, but people get used to it in no time and start returning.

Once they banned smoking in elevators there was no dropoff in ridership

elevators offer one alternative: stairs. Bars are not so lucky.

 

[MaggieMae]

Smokers have spent generations not caring about the rights of those around them....their response "If you don't like it.....leave"

Why should anyone care about their right to spew smoke?

Yes why should we care about rights at all really, I mean they are over rated.

Sorry pal...you rights end at my nose

While I do understand your frustration, I also think that this is a personal "right" that should be decided between the offending person and the one being offended. In all my years of smoking, if there was a single person at my table who did NOT smoke, I (and my colleagues or friends) would ask if that person minded the smoke, and if the answer was yes, we simply did not smoke in his presence. Personal pollution comes in all forms: Verbal pollution--someone who can't put together a sentence without a string of obscenities; noise pollution--I've excused myself from restaurants and bars where you can't hear yourself talk over the music; a neighbor's pollution by refusing to cover his garbage can and it gets strewn all of someone else's lawn. The list is endless, if you get my drift.

 

[MaggieMae]

Here in Michigan they just made it illegal to smoke in Bars and Restaurants. Not sure about the Restaurants but there is story after story in the local papers about Bars that are seeing 70, and 80% drops in Business.

Just more Economic Damage in the name of Nobel Ideas.

There's always an initial dropoff in business, but eventually it levels out. California has had a no-smoking in public places ban for decades. Vermont's has been in place for about six years, and there was the usual boycotting, but people get used to it in no time and start returning.

California is notoriously liberal anyway. I'm sure wheetgrass sales are through the roof in that state... but it's really not indicative of anything in America.

I can post plenty of testimony by businesses whose income has suffered because of smoking bans. Fabricated statistics means very little to bar owners who close their doors because their clientele chooses to stay home and drink because they can smoke on their own property without some dickhead's opinion creeping into the choice to partake.

Well part of the statistics cited is the fact that now many non-smokers who once would NOT partake of certain establishments because of the smoke are now actually boosting the those businesses. Plus, as I said, a lot of younger people, while they may smoke weed, don't smoke cigarettes so they don't care anyway. The rest of us just got used to not smoking in restaurants (I stopped going to bars a long time ago). It just didn't bother me after awhile to wait until I was outside. I didn't even think about it.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes why should we care about rights at all really, I mean they are over rated.

Sorry pal...you rights end at my nose

While I do understand your frustration, I also think that this is a personal "right" that should be decided between the offending person and the one being offended. In all my years of smoking, if there was a single person at my table who did NOT smoke, I (and my colleagues or friends) would ask if that person minded the smoke, and if the answer was yes, we simply did not smoke in his presence. Personal pollution comes in all forms: Verbal pollution--someone who can't put together a sentence without a string of obscenities; noise pollution--I've excused myself from restaurants and bars where you can't hear yourself talk over the music; a neighbor's pollution by refusing to cover his garbage can and it gets strewn all of someone else's lawn. The list is endless, if you get my drift.

I agree some smokers in the past were considerate. But the problem is the people smoking at the next table.

"Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool"

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I believe the cigar bars require membership. And the hookah bars may have alcohol. In fact, this article says there are "hookah hobo bars" where people can bring their own.

NYC Hookah Bars – A Review of the New York City Hookah Bar Scene | The HoBlog

You can't smoke cigarettes in hookah bars though.

And in NYC, 90% of the hookah bars do not cater to Muslims, they cater to high school and college students.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know.......smokers should be allowed to smoke outside at a minimum.

Political correctness is what has allowed this bullshit thing to get so big.