Blame the Glock or the Cop....should LEOs use glocks.......

[2aguy]

This isn't the first debate on this....but it is another one.......should police use Glocks.......

Bearing ArmsWRONG GUN Why The Most Popular Gun For Law Enforcement Is A Mistake - Bearing Arms


Agencies that switch from other pistol designs to Glocks (and to a lesser extent, other short trigger pull, no external safety guns) typically see their number of negligent discharges soar. Agencies that switch away from Glocks to more forgiving designs typically see their negligent discharges decrease.

There has been institutional resistance to admitting that Glocks and similar designs are not good guns for law enforcement officers, and for each and every negligent discharge, there is a rush to blame the individual officer and the lack of training time most agencies have with their firearms.

 

[DarkFury]

This isn't the first debate on this....but it is another one.......should police use Glocks.......

Bearing ArmsWRONG GUN Why The Most Popular Gun For Law Enforcement Is A Mistake - Bearing Arms


Agencies that switch from other pistol designs to Glocks (and to a lesser extent, other short trigger pull, no external safety guns) typically see their number of negligent discharges soar. Agencies that switch away from Glocks to more forgiving designs typically see their negligent discharges decrease.

There has been institutional resistance to admitting that Glocks and similar designs are not good guns for law enforcement officers, and for each and every negligent discharge, there is a rush to blame the individual officer and the lack of training time most agencies have with their firearms.

I have done SOME reading on this and one point of argument I have seen that may well be true is that LEO's often have their trigger pull adjusted to light for their abilities.

And I kind of agree with that as a high stress time may NOT be the time for a 2.5 lb. trigger pull.

 

[2aguy]

I always here Glock fans say that their gun safety is between their ears......true....but we are all human and not always on our game......and it only takes a moment of distraction for a negligent discharge....

 

[DarkFury]

I always here Glock fans say that their gun safety is between their ears......true....but we are all human and not always on our game......and it only takes a moment of distraction for a negligent discharge....

Well if you are holding the gun at a downward angle the weight of the gun is enough to engage the trigger at 2.5. Glock owners always argue you can throw a Glock at a wall and it will not go off..

The question SHOULD be can you hold the Glock at your side and relax and change your grip without the WEIGHT of the gun firing it?

 

[Roadrunner]

I always here Glock fans say that their gun safety is between their ears......true....but we are all human and not always on our game......and it only takes a moment of distraction for a negligent discharge....

Not familiar with the Glock.

I like the 1911, and the Hi-Power.

And of course, the old S&W's, so reliable.

Average firefight is said to be three shots at three feet in three seconds.

I feel fine with anything.

Cop guns should have safeties though.

I guess I'll have to look at one of the Glocks, before I comment much on what cops should carry.

Been thinking of going to a double action semi; for my GF.

Maybe a Berreta .380, for her nightstand.

Thinking that, or a youth model Remington shotgun in 20 gauge, and buckshot.

 

[DarkFury]

I always here Glock fans say that their gun safety is between their ears......true....but we are all human and not always on our game......and it only takes a moment of distraction for a negligent discharge....

Not familiar with the Glock.

I like the 1911, and the Hi-Power.

And of course, the old S&W's, so reliable.

Average firefight is said to be three shots at three feet in three seconds.

I feel fine with anything.

Cop guns should have safeties though.

I guess I'll have to look at one of the Glocks, before I comment much on what cops should carry.

Been thinking of going to a double action semi; for my GF.

Maybe a Berreta .380, for her nightstand.

Thinking that, or a youth model Remington shotgun in 20 gauge, and buckshot.

skip the buckshot and go with solid slugs. If someone is holding a knife to your child's throat you need to be SURGICAL in your shooting not blasting every thing.

 

[william the wie]

I like a light caliber with a safety. When it's for real expect to miss on the first one and you don't want to be aiming at the sky when the other guy is getting his gun aimed at you. A .25-.30 caliber is just about right and triple tap. I am certain that somedamnbody has survived one to the heart and two the head. I assume if I have to use I will be using against the next Rasputin.

 

[DarkFury]

I like a light caliber with a safety. When it's for real expect to miss on the first one and you don't want to be aiming at the sky when the other guy is getting his gun aimed at you. A .25-.30 caliber is just about right and triple tap. I am certain that somedamnbody has survived one to the heart and two the head. I assume if I have to use I will be using against the next Rasputin.

I just carry a standard 38 spl revolver. And try to remember one rule.
Don't go stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things.

 

[william the wie]

It's too bad the old gyro-jet was banned. no recoil and creates golf ball sized holes in the opponent.

 

[Maxx]

IMO the one gun fits all policies of many LE agencies is seriously flawed. I suspect the lack of ongoing fundamental firearm training and evaluation are major factors as well.

Glocks do not fire by themselves. The question you need to ask yourself is whether you want to bet your life on your ability to be 100% safe at all times. It only takes 1 distraction, one slip of a finger on that trigger to fire a round in ANY gun.
One of the fundamental rules of firearm safety is keep your finger out of the trigger ring until you are ready to fire.
Where I disagree with you guys is I believe if someone is serious about training with their firearm, they can train themselves to draw their weapon correctly even under duress.
Granted, the human factor comes into play, but these are people who carry a weapon for a living.

I'm not a cop, but it isn't hard to imagine that a huge number (probably the majority) of police receive some intensive firearm training in the academy, then go on to just practice to qualify from that point on.
As humans, we are all guilty of complacency. I believe overcoming that factor would go much farther than simply issuing only guns with external safeties.

 

[Roadrunner]

I always here Glock fans say that their gun safety is between their ears......true....but we are all human and not always on our game......and it only takes a moment of distraction for a negligent discharge....

Not familiar with the Glock.

I like the 1911, and the Hi-Power.

And of course, the old S&W's, so reliable.

Average firefight is said to be three shots at three feet in three seconds.

I feel fine with anything.

Cop guns should have safeties though.

I guess I'll have to look at one of the Glocks, before I comment much on what cops should carry.

Been thinking of going to a double action semi; for my GF.

Maybe a Berreta .380, for her nightstand.

Thinking that, or a youth model Remington shotgun in 20 gauge, and buckshot.

skip the buckshot and go with solid slugs. If someone is holding a knife to your child's throat you need to be SURGICAL in your shooting not blasting every thing.

No kids.

If GF is alone, buckshot is the way to go.

 

[Iceweasel]

There may be some truth to it. My first pistol was a Glock 17. I quickly realized once I got my CCW permit that I wasn't going to carry it with a round in the chamber and didn't like the idea of racking the slide under duress...so I traded it in on a Kimber 1911 and haven't looked back.

That's not the answer for most LEO these days since spray and pray seems more prevalent with lots of ammo at your disposal, but there are many that do have and external safety. I never bought Glock's safe action BS but the rule of thumb is to keep your finger off the trigger except when ready to shoot. Probably hard to remember when the SHTF.

 

[turtledude]

This isn't the first debate on this....but it is another one.......should police use Glocks.......

Bearing ArmsWRONG GUN Why The Most Popular Gun For Law Enforcement Is A Mistake - Bearing Arms


Agencies that switch from other pistol designs to Glocks (and to a lesser extent, other short trigger pull, no external safety guns) typically see their number of negligent discharges soar. Agencies that switch away from Glocks to more forgiving designs typically see their negligent discharges decrease.

There has been institutional resistance to admitting that Glocks and similar designs are not good guns for law enforcement officers, and for each and every negligent discharge, there is a rush to blame the individual officer and the lack of training time most agencies have with their firearms.

There are several issues

1) Title VII-women often have smaller hands and weaker fingers. Traditional Double action first shot autos (like the excellent SIG 226, Beretta 92 and the Older SW 5906) were harder for women officers to qualify with. I got a really nice 92 Beretta (the one that works like a SIG-decock only) with the Indiana State Patrol stamped on the slide because women officers threatened a law suit and the agency switched to the much easier (for lady cops to qualify with) Glocks

2) I have seen hard core USPSA shooters miss the safety in matches all the time. These are people who shoot more in a month than most cops shoot in a lifetime. cocked and locked autos like the BHP or 1911 are experts guns but having to depress a safety lever scares many cops

so if you have traditional hammer down DA for your first or all shots-lady cops complain

If you have cocked and locked, lots of cops complain

so the GLOCK or the similar SW MP and SA XD are easier for women to shoot and don't have that manual safety

its a no win situation for agencies

 

[turtledude]

I always here Glock fans say that their gun safety is between their ears......true....but we are all human and not always on our game......and it only takes a moment of distraction for a negligent discharge....

Well if you are holding the gun at a downward angle the weight of the gun is enough to engage the trigger at 2.5. Glock owners always argue you can throw a Glock at a wall and it will not go off..

The question SHOULD be can you hold the Glock at your side and relax and change your grip without the WEIGHT of the gun firing it?

2.5 trigger pound is dubious to me. I have match grade 34 Glocks that have gunsmith tuned triggers and they are still over 3 pounds. Can someone like David Bowie (not the singer but the top drawer Glock Gunsmith) get one that light? No idea but I have a 34 custom job from him and the gun cost over 1500 dollars and he knows I am a master class shooter who would only use the gun for competition and its not lower than 3 pounds

how many blocks weight 2.5 pounds? that is 40 pounces If I am thinking clearly

an empty G17 is 25.06 ounces, loaded its 32.12 ounces which is a smooch over 2 pounds but not 2.5 pounds. The target grade G34 is 4.5 pounds trigger pull which is a pound lighter than the G17. BTW the best aftermarket trigger for the GLOCK is the ZEV fulcrum trigger which can be adjusted as low as THREE pounds and costs 250 dollars. I just don't see cops spending the kind of money to get a G17 or G19 down that low

BTW my CZ Custom shop CTS limited gun which goes for about 2500 dollars is under 2 pounds but its designed for Master class Steel or USPSA shooters.

 

[WinterBorn]

I like a light caliber with a safety. When it's for real expect to miss on the first one and you don't want to be aiming at the sky when the other guy is getting his gun aimed at you. A .25-.30 caliber is just about right and triple tap. I am certain that somedamnbody has survived one to the heart and two the head. I assume if I have to use I will be using against the next Rasputin.

I just carry a standard 38 spl revolver. And try to remember one rule.
Don't go stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things.

I think too many people dismiss revolvers as good self defense guns.

 

[turtledude]

I like a light caliber with a safety. When it's for real expect to miss on the first one and you don't want to be aiming at the sky when the other guy is getting his gun aimed at you. A .25-.30 caliber is just about right and triple tap. I am certain that somedamnbody has survived one to the heart and two the head. I assume if I have to use I will be using against the next Rasputin.

I just carry a standard 38 spl revolver. And try to remember one rule.
Don't go stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things.

I think too many people dismiss revolvers as good self defense guns.

true, for home defense the 8 shot 627 is one of the best
and I often carry a J frame snubby

 

[william the wie]

I like a light caliber with a safety. When it's for real expect to miss on the first one and you don't want to be aiming at the sky when the other guy is getting his gun aimed at you. A .25-.30 caliber is just about right and triple tap. I am certain that somedamnbody has survived one to the heart and two the head. I assume if I have to use I will be using against the next Rasputin.

I just carry a standard 38 spl revolver. And try to remember one rule.
Don't go stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things.

I think too many people dismiss revolvers as good self defense guns.

while true I think you need to expand on this point or maybe create a new thread to explain why revolvers like at least one model of the street-sweeper can be safe and reliable.

 

[WinterBorn]

I like a light caliber with a safety. When it's for real expect to miss on the first one and you don't want to be aiming at the sky when the other guy is getting his gun aimed at you. A .25-.30 caliber is just about right and triple tap. I am certain that somedamnbody has survived one to the heart and two the head. I assume if I have to use I will be using against the next Rasputin.

I just carry a standard 38 spl revolver. And try to remember one rule.
Don't go stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things.

I think too many people dismiss revolvers as good self defense guns.

while true I think you need to expand on this point or maybe create a new thread to explain why revolvers like at least one model of the street-sweeper can be safe and reliable.

Really? I think the space would be better used discussing why you feel the need to invade a thread just to troll it.

 

[usfan]

I don't see the issue. Firearms always have had mistakes in handling. There are always mishandling, poor safety, & human error. Something like the glock can magnify it, i suppose, but this platform, or a similar single action pistol would have that same problem. It is an offset of pros & cons. If the pros outweigh the cons, the weapon is chosen as the service pistol for that military or police branch. Glocks are the preferred pistol in lots of branches around the world, so those making the decisions have weighed the pros & cons.

It will depend on the level of expertise, training, & skill set of those carrying the weapon. The US military chose the beretta m9. It is hammer fired, double & single action, with a safety. Other military & police had different criteria. They saw the safety as a negative, instead of a positive. Sometimes the weapon is in the wrong hands, or is misused. Other times, it is the right tool for the job. There is no one size fits all, regarding service pistols, so compromises have to be made. That is what has provided the wealth of choices we have.. different departments have different parameters in their decision process.