Birthers Lay an Egg

[Emma]

If he had released the birth certificate long form I would have been just like the rest of you. "Ho-hum, another conspiracy theory bites the dust."

But that hasn't happen? Why?

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.


Applying for Hawaiian Home Lands — Department of Hawaiian Home Lands

(what I referenced in my above post)

 

[Missourian]

Does Kenyan law state that if you are born on their soil you are automatically a Kenyan citizen, back in 1961?

Does usa law state that if both parents of the child born overseas live in the united states, (one a natural born citizen who lived in the united states her entire life, including the time of birth, and the other a legal immigrant residing in the united states for 2 years already), but born overseas when their parents are on vacation, that this child being born while on vacation has to go through the same process as an American citizen LIVING ABROAD on foreign soil?

I mean as mentioned earlier....how do you naturalize him in to the system if there is no where to naturalize him from, because BOTH his parents were residents of the united states when he was born?

I am CERTAIN there is more to this law than meets the eye....and it is in regards to Americans LIVING ABROAD when they have their kids....

it is hard to believe it is in regards to Americans that just happen to be on vacation and plop their kid out on foreign soil, who do not live there?

The law deals with citizenship, residency is a non-issue.

I quoted the law, I sourced it, I linked it and I invited everyone to read it.

If you find a reason why it would not hold true, I'll be glad to read it and reassess my position.

Until then, as far as the law is concerned, Obama would not have been a citizen of the U.S. if he was born in Kenya in 1961.

The law today still contains a clause relating to age in it's 1996 update...it is now at least two years after 14 but it is not retroactive (the proviso is the section beginning at the capitalized word 'Provided', which is also contained in the 1952 law). It is now section Title 3, Chapter 1, Section 301 (g).

IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY ACT TITLE III
​

I've read Navy's post with interest, as he is excellent post writer and very knowledgeable, but as far as I can tell, none relate to this particular situation.

 

[Missourian]

If he had released the birth certificate long form I would have been just like the rest of you. "Ho-hum, another conspiracy theory bites the dust."

But that hasn't happen? Why?

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.


Applying for Hawaiian Home Lands — Department of Hawaiian Home Lands

(what I referenced in my above post)

From Vanderbilt University:

"The controversy over President Obama’s birth certificate will not go away as long as he refuses to release sealed records, including the original birth certificate, according to Carol Swain, professor of political science and law at Vanderbilt University.

“I believe that the president should end the speculation by being transparent about all aspects of his background,” Swain said. “In fact, it can be argued that the president belongs to the people and to scholars, biographers and others who are entitled to know every aspect of his past. Only great men can ascend to this height, and their lives should be examined and studied for the lessons they offer.”

Swain said that what is posted online for the president is a certificate of live birth. “It is the failure to release the long form that keeps suspicion alive,” she said. Swain noted that she strongly disagrees with those who want to criticize Americans, including journalist Lou Dobbs, who continue to raise the issue.

Other sealed records that Swain has called for the president to release include those pertaining to his education, foreign travel and state legislative business."

Why Obama's birth certificate issue won't go away: Vanderbilt expert - VUCast: Vanderbilt University's News Network
​

 

[Emma]

If he had released the birth certificate long form I would have been just like the rest of you. "Ho-hum, another conspiracy theory bites the dust."

But that hasn't happen? Why?

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.


Applying for Hawaiian Home Lands — Department of Hawaiian Home Lands

(what I referenced in my above post)

From Vanderbilt University:

"The controversy over President Obama’s birth certificate will not go away as long as he refuses to release sealed records, including the original birth certificate, according to Carol Swain, professor of political science and law at Vanderbilt University.

“I believe that the president should end the speculation by being transparent about all aspects of his background,” Swain said. “In fact, it can be argued that the president belongs to the people and to scholars, biographers and others who are entitled to know every aspect of his past. Only great men can ascend to this height, and their lives should be examined and studied for the lessons they offer.”

Swain said that what is posted online for the president is a certificate of live birth. “It is the failure to release the long form that keeps suspicion alive,” she said. Swain noted that she strongly disagrees with those who want to criticize Americans, including journalist Lou Dobbs, who continue to raise the issue.

Other sealed records that Swain has called for the president to release include those pertaining to his education, foreign travel and state legislative business."

Why Obama's birth certificate issue won't go away: Vanderbilt expert - VUCast: Vanderbilt University's News Network
​

That doesn't matter. The state no longer issues 'long form' birth certificates.

 

[Missourian]

From Vanderbilt University:

"The controversy over President Obama’s birth certificate will not go away as long as he refuses to release sealed records, including the original birth certificate, according to Carol Swain, professor of political science and law at Vanderbilt University.

“I believe that the president should end the speculation by being transparent about all aspects of his background,” Swain said. “In fact, it can be argued that the president belongs to the people and to scholars, biographers and others who are entitled to know every aspect of his past. Only great men can ascend to this height, and their lives should be examined and studied for the lessons they offer.”

Swain said that what is posted online for the president is a certificate of live birth. “It is the failure to release the long form that keeps suspicion alive,” she said. Swain noted that she strongly disagrees with those who want to criticize Americans, including journalist Lou Dobbs, who continue to raise the issue.

Other sealed records that Swain has called for the president to release include those pertaining to his education, foreign travel and state legislative business."

Why Obama's birth certificate issue won't go away: Vanderbilt expert - VUCast: Vanderbilt University's News Network
​

That doesn't matter. The state no longer issues 'long form' birth certificates.

It's not what they issue...it's what they now verify exists.

Posted on: Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists

• By Dan Nakaso
  Advertiser Staff Writers

Hawaii's Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama's original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage, but the announcement is unlikely to satisfy conspiracy theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya.

"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."

The Health Department's director reiterated yesterday that she has seen Obama's birth records.

Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser
​

 

[Missourian]

That doesn't matter. The state no longer issues 'long form' birth certificates.

It's not what they issue...it's what they now verify exists.

Posted on: Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists

• By Dan Nakaso
  Advertiser Staff Writers

Hawaii's Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama's original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage, but the announcement is unlikely to satisfy conspiracy theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya.

"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."

The Health Department's director reiterated yesterday that she has seen Obama's birth records.

Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser
​

Important passage from the article cited:

"The law further states that the Health Department "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."

Those who have "direct and tangible interest" are generally limited to the person named in the record, the spouse, parent, descendant, or personal representative, or by someone who is involved in marital, parental or death litigation involving the named person's vital record or other legal reason established by a court order, and various official agency or organization representatives, including the state director of health, according to the law."
​

So President Obama could release this document at anytime he should so choose.

Why doesn't he?

 

[Emma]

It's not what they issue...it's what they now verify exists.

Posted on: Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists

• By Dan Nakaso
  Advertiser Staff Writers

Hawaii's Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama's original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage, but the announcement is unlikely to satisfy conspiracy theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya.

"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."

The Health Department's director reiterated yesterday that she has seen Obama's birth records.

Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser
​

?

I never said they didn't have original records. They no longer issue the long form, only COLB.

 

[Emma]

That doesn't matter. The state no longer issues 'long form' birth certificates.

It's not what they issue...it's what they now verify exists.

Posted on: Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists

• By Dan Nakaso
  Advertiser Staff Writers

Hawaii's Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama's original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage, but the announcement is unlikely to satisfy conspiracy theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya.

"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."

The Health Department's director reiterated yesterday that she has seen Obama's birth records.

Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser
​

Important passage from the article cited:

"The law further states that the Health Department "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."

Those who have "direct and tangible interest" are generally limited to the person named in the record, the spouse, parent, descendant, or personal representative, or by someone who is involved in marital, parental or death litigation involving the named person's vital record or other legal reason established by a court order, and various official agency or organization representatives, including the state director of health, according to the law."
​

So President Obama could release this document at anytime he should so choose.

Why doesn't he?

How can he release a document the state no longer issues?

 

[DiveCon]

It's not what they issue...it's what they now verify exists.

Posted on: Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists

• By Dan Nakaso
  Advertiser Staff Writers

Hawaii's Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama's original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage, but the announcement is unlikely to satisfy conspiracy theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya.

"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."

The Health Department's director reiterated yesterday that she has seen Obama's birth records.

Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser
​

Important passage from the article cited:

"The law further states that the Health Department "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."

Those who have "direct and tangible interest" are generally limited to the person named in the record, the spouse, parent, descendant, or personal representative, or by someone who is involved in marital, parental or death litigation involving the named person's vital record or other legal reason established by a court order, and various official agency or organization representatives, including the state director of health, according to the law."
​

So President Obama could release this document at anytime he should so choose.

Why doesn't he?

How can he release a document the state no longer issues?

magic?

 

[Emma]

Important passage from the article cited:

"The law further states that the Health Department "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."

Those who have "direct and tangible interest" are generally limited to the person named in the record, the spouse, parent, descendant, or personal representative, or by someone who is involved in marital, parental or death litigation involving the named person's vital record or other legal reason established by a court order, and various official agency or organization representatives, including the state director of health, according to the law."
​

So President Obama could release this document at anytime he should so choose.

Why doesn't he?

How can he release a document the state no longer issues?

magic?

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.

 

[Missourian]

It's not what they issue...it's what they now verify exists.

Posted on: Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists

• By Dan Nakaso
  Advertiser Staff Writers

Hawaii's Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama's original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage, but the announcement is unlikely to satisfy conspiracy theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya.

"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."

The Health Department's director reiterated yesterday that she has seen Obama's birth records.

Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser
​

Important passage from the article cited:

"The law further states that the Health Department "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."

Those who have "direct and tangible interest" are generally limited to the person named in the record, the spouse, parent, descendant, or personal representative, or by someone who is involved in marital, parental or death litigation involving the named person's vital record or other legal reason established by a court order, and various official agency or organization representatives, including the state director of health, according to the law."
​

So President Obama could release this document at anytime he should so choose.

Why doesn't he?

How can he release a document the state no longer issues?

Did you read it?

I clearly states he can get a certified copy of the original.

 

[Missourian]

Important passage from the article cited:

"The law further states that the Health Department "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."

Those who have "direct and tangible interest" are generally limited to the person named in the record, the spouse, parent, descendant, or personal representative, or by someone who is involved in marital, parental or death litigation involving the named person's vital record or other legal reason established by a court order, and various official agency or organization representatives, including the state director of health, according to the law."
​

So President Obama could release this document at anytime he should so choose.

Why doesn't he?

How can he release a document the state no longer issues?

magic?

Yeah DC...the magic of Xerox...Ooooh..Aaaaah...next we'll introduce you to the DVD.

 

[DiveCon]

How can he release a document the state no longer issues?

magic?

Yeah DC...the magic of Xerox...Ooooh..Aaaaah...next we'll introduce you to the DVD.

when the state of HI doesnt do that by Hawai'ian state law?

 

[Emma]

Important passage from the article cited:

"The law further states that the Health Department "shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record."

Those who have "direct and tangible interest" are generally limited to the person named in the record, the spouse, parent, descendant, or personal representative, or by someone who is involved in marital, parental or death litigation involving the named person's vital record or other legal reason established by a court order, and various official agency or organization representatives, including the state director of health, according to the law."
​

So President Obama could release this document at anytime he should so choose.

Why doesn't he?

How can he release a document the state no longer issues?

Did you read it?

I clearly states he can get a certified copy of the original.

Not quite. It says you can get a certified copy of any such record; it doesn't say original. But as also noted by the state site I quoted, all they issue upon such a request is the COLB.

 

[Emma]

How can he release a document the state no longer issues?

magic?

Yeah DC...the magic of Xerox...Ooooh..Aaaaah...next we'll introduce you to the DVD.

But the point is, the state no longer issues the long form.

I wonder how the records are stored? I know it wouldn't be paper copies. Microfiche? Do they still use that?

 

[Missourian]

How can he release a document the state no longer issues?

Did you read it?

I clearly states he can get a certified copy of the original.

Not quite. It says you can get a certified copy of any such record; it doesn't say original. But as also noted by the state site I quoted, all they issue upon such a request is the COLB.

"Certified copy of any record or part or part thereof" means just what it says....A certified copy....read the article.

 

[Emma]

http://markrileymedia.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/obama-birth-certificate1.jpg

Oh btw, getting back to the scenario of him being born elsewhere, etc. I forgot about this... the date filed by registrar was August 8th, meaning the time line I described was cut even shorter.

But what about the notation at the bottom of the certificate?

 

[DiveCon]

Did you read it?

I clearly states he can get a certified copy of the original.

Not quite. It says you can get a certified copy of any such record; it doesn't say original. But as also noted by the state site I quoted, all they issue upon such a request is the COLB.

"Certified copy of any record or part or part thereof" means just what it says....A certified copy....read the article.

but they dont issue a certified copy, just the COLB

 

[Emma]

Did you read it?

I clearly states he can get a certified copy of the original.

Not quite. It says you can get a certified copy of any such record; it doesn't say original. But as also noted by the state site I quoted, all they issue upon such a request is the COLB.

"Certified copy of any record or part or part thereof" means just what it says....A certified copy....read the article.

Yes I did.


"Our Certificate of Live Birth is the standard form, which was modeled after national standards that are acceptable by federal agencies and organizations," Okubo said. "With that form, you can get your passport or your soccer registration or your driver's license."

The standard "Certification of Live Birth" that Hawai'i health officials now issue...

The modern-day birth certificates issued to anyone seeking their Hawai'i birth records have spaces for the names and races of the parents, as well as information such as the time of birth.

Nordyke's 1961 birth certificates required much more information, such as the ages, occupations and birthplaces of the babies' parents.

In November 2008, The Advertiser reported that the first published mention of the future president appeared in a Sunday Advertiser birth announcement that ran on Aug. 13, 1961:

"Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, Aug. 4."

The identical announce- ment ran the following day in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

Birthers wave off those birth announcements, saying that Obama family members 48 years ago could have phoned in false information to both newspapers.

Such vital statistics, however, were not sent to the newspapers by the general public but by the Health Department, which received the information directly from hospitals, Okubo said.

-------------

And, independently, you have a Hawaiian state government website stating unequivocally that "Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

 

[RadiomanATL]

This whole thread is talking in circles now.