Bill to extend unemployment AGAIN killed by senate republicans

[Gadawg73]

Give me my welfare check, I here Vegas calling.

LOL. On the theory that he had staged an accident and was faking his injuries that he had a chiropractor certify made him unable to work, I hired a private investigator to follow a work comp patient.

The first two times out, the 'patient' drove so erratically he was able to lose the tail. The third time, they figured out how to do it though and followed him to my office where he picked up his weekly compensation check. And then, at highly dangerous speeds, they managed to follow him to the nearest casino where he bounded out of his car, literally sprinted to the front door of the casino. They couldn't get cameras inside at that point, but followed him in and reported that he bee-lined it to the blackjack table and vaulted onto a stool and proceeded to spend a couple of hours losing all of his compensation check.

With the film we had of this plus a couple of other interesting encounters, we were able to convince him that he was miraculously cured after a few sessions with the chiropractor.

I didn't work the claims, but we subsequently heard that he did this at least twice more. He would go to work for somebody just long enough to find a way to get 'hurt' and receive disability through work comp for an extended period.

Of course there are those who aren't faking it. But there are a lot of folks out there milking the system for all they can get out of it too. And alas, probably most are getting away with it.

Betwen 1979 and 1995 I investigated over 1000 workers comp claims.
Many chiropractors are in on the dealbut many are also reputable as I goto one regularly due to sports injuries.
Your story rings true in every detail. Had many with the same set of facts it seems.
I work a few self insured cases these days that involve big $. Too old (55) to be getting up at 4 AM to sit surveillance 45 miles away.
I believe 50% is fraud either totally faking it or partially.
Fact is 95% of the cases are with doctors, not chiropractors. You have NO case without an MD in 95% of the cases. Chiropractors can only deal with soft tissue minor comp claims.
Lawsuits ambulance chasers would go away if we had honest doctors. Without the doctor there is NO claim.

 

[Charles_Main]

You guys can use the same old blame the republicans defense if you want, But think about this.

All the republicans were asking for was to make cuts somewhere else to pay for it before passing more spending.

So if the Democrats really wanted to pass it all they had to do was give a little, be responsible and actually pay for something for a change. It is their own unwillingness to compromise that killed this bill. Not to mention the fact that the Dems still have a Majority so actually there had to be some Democrat Hold outs as well that helped kill this bill. Also and most important is the fact that like I said the dems could have compromised and found something to cut somewhere to come up with the money to pay for this bill, or they could have stole more money from TARP to pay for it, but no they have chosen to play politics and try and make the Republicans look bad for "KILLING UNEMPLOYMENT." When they have the Majority. What a lame ass joke. Please I hope you people are not buying it.

And before you attack me know that I am currently basically unemployed and have been for 16 months. (I say basically because I do get work occasionally through a Construction service I work for but its pretty sporadic at the moment). It is not for lack of trying that I am still unemployed I assure you. I live in Northern Michigan and we are in anything but a recovery up here.

So Yes I wish this bill had passed, But I also agree in principle to what the Republicans were asking for. We can not simply just keep printing and borrowing money. It was and is perfectly rational of the Republicans to ask that we pay for this before we pass it. Even if they did it out of political motivations the point is still very valid. While the Dems are simply being assholes, Refusing to budge, Refusing to be fiscally responsible, and trying to play the blame game again. Do they even have any other plays in their play book? They call the republicans the party of no, But all the Dems are is the party of "it's the republicans fault" Even when they have near super majorities they are still blaming the Republicans. It is truly pathetic.

 

[Foxfyre]

Give me my welfare check, I here Vegas calling.

LOL. On the theory that he had staged an accident and was faking his injuries that he had a chiropractor certify made him unable to work, I hired a private investigator to follow a work comp patient.

The first two times out, the 'patient' drove so erratically he was able to lose the tail. The third time, they figured out how to do it though and followed him to my office where he picked up his weekly compensation check. And then, at highly dangerous speeds, they managed to follow him to the nearest casino where he bounded out of his car, literally sprinted to the front door of the casino. They couldn't get cameras inside at that point, but followed him in and reported that he bee-lined it to the blackjack table and vaulted onto a stool and proceeded to spend a couple of hours losing all of his compensation check.

With the film we had of this plus a couple of other interesting encounters, we were able to convince him that he was miraculously cured after a few sessions with the chiropractor.

I didn't work the claims, but we subsequently heard that he did this at least twice more. He would go to work for somebody just long enough to find a way to get 'hurt' and receive disability through work comp for an extended period.

Of course there are those who aren't faking it. But there are a lot of folks out there milking the system for all they can get out of it too. And alas, probably most are getting away with it.

Betwen 1979 and 1995 I investigated over 1000 workers comp claims.
Many chiropractors are in on the dealbut many are also reputable as I goto one regularly due to sports injuries.
Your story rings true in every detail. Had many with the same set of facts it seems.
I work a few self insured cases these days that involve big $. Too old (55) to be getting up at 4 AM to sit surveillance 45 miles away.
I believe 50% is fraud either totally faking it or partially.
Fact is 95% of the cases are with doctors, not chiropractors. You have NO case without an MD in 95% of the cases. Chiropractors can only deal with soft tissue minor comp claims.
Lawsuits ambulance chasers would go away if we had honest doctors. Without the doctor there is NO claim.

In New Mexico, unless there is unrefutable proof of fraud with absolutely no wiggle room for a mistake about that, the patient is always right. And a chiropractor is given every bit as much power by the judges as a M.D. specialist.

I had one case where we appealed for change of doctor because the Doc who diagnosed the patient was in prison for fraudulently prescribing narcotic drugs and his license was suspended. The patient and his lawyer of course did not want to be reassigned--this was the doctor of choice of the lawyers--and argued that he would be out of jail within 90 days. The judge said he would allow the patient to be reassigned to our doctor until his doctor got out of prison and then if the doctor's license was reinstated, the patient could choose that doctor again.

And this is the case with almost all public services too. It is almost impossible to make an iron clad case that somebody is abusing the system here and if there is any question at all the person gets his checks or whatever.

 

[txlonghorn]

The Republicans don't have the numbers to kill anything right now. When are some of you going to learn this?

You can always tell a mindless DittoTard!

Stuttering LimpTard told his morons today that the Republicans don't have the numbers to kill anything right now, and the mindless drones are stupid enough to parrot it in public even though the GOP has 41 votes, enough to kill any legislation.

How does that work again?

 

[Charles_Main]

After reading a lot of peoples comments on this thread it is clear to me most of you have fell for it and are blaming the wrong party here. The debate was never about whether or not we needed to pass more unemployment benefits, It was about whether or not we should pay for it first or not. The Republicans said yes the Dems said no, FU do what we say or the bill dies., and it did.

Also the Dems attached another big infusion of money to the states, 30 Billion I believe, supposedly to save teachers and cops jobs. Forcing the Republicans hand. They had to either accept more unemployment benefits and 30 Billion more to the states, Or vote no. A clever political trick by the Dems which is systematic of the dirty politics both sides play that ruins out system. Something as important as extending benefits at time like this should not be played games with. They should not be attaching more stimulus spending to it and forcing the other parties hand.

If the god damn compassionate Democrats were really so compassionate and really wanted to extend these benefits it would have happened. Anyone who does not see that is just lost forever IMO.

 

[Charles_Main]

The Republicans don't have the numbers to kill anything right now. When are some of you going to learn this?

You can always tell a mindless DittoTard!

Stuttering LimpTard told his morons today that the Republicans don't have the numbers to kill anything right now, and the mindless drones are stupid enough to parrot it in public even though the GOP has 41 votes, enough to kill any legislation.

How does that work again?

It's called a filibuster which stops a Bill form going to the floor for general Debate, But what the Dems and the Libs fail to mention is that a filibuster like this one only works if the other side is completely unwilling to negotiate or give at all. Which of course the dems are not. Had the Dems wanted to pass this, they would have figured out how to come up with the money to pay for it, or not attached Money for the states to it. They are the party in power. This is not like when the Dems were filibustering Bushes judicial Nominees. See in that situation There was no room to negotiate, it was yes or no to this person. In this case there was all sorts of room to negotiate and all sorts of way the Dems could have satisfied the Republicans and passed this bill.

THEY CHOSE NOT TO.

 

[The Rabbi]

If the Dums can't convince a limp wrist RINO like Olympia Snowe, always a reliable vote for Democrats, to vote for something then the legislation must really suck.

 

[The T]

If the Dums can't convince a limp wrist RINO like Olympia Snowe, always a reliable vote for Democrats, to vote for something then the legislation must really suck.

Sometimes people really know when Government is way overbounds. This is one of Snowe's rare moments.

 

[Zona]

Employees do pay for unemployment benefits, when a employer hire you service out they charge a x amount(no matter what line of work you're in) and you are not paid that full amount, some of it is used to pay for Unemployment ins. it called overhead.

That is a stretch.

We have operating costs, and yes, our cost of payroll addition due to UI is part of operating costs.

But salaries are based on the market. I pay the market value of an employee plus 6%...that is a rule of thumb I use to ensure my salaries are competative. That does not change if my UI is to go up (which it has not). If it does go up, my personal profit (distribution) will go down...not the salary I would pay for an employee.

But those of us who have long been running businesses do calculate the cost of mandatory liability insurance (often based on payroll), mandatory work comp insurance (almost always based on payroll), SUTA, FUTA, and FICA (always based on payroll) as well as any other wage based expenses when we determine what we can afford to offer a person to work for us.

The more such expenses there are, the less we can afford to pay in wages. That is why the more mandates the Federal or State governments impose re time off, health insurance, retirement, union membership, etc. etc. etc., the more it will affect your profits and the more it will affect the bottom line in the employee's paycheck.

If you, the employer, are willing to just ignore the consequences of the extra expenses, I imagine you won't be in business too long. You surely will be limited in your ability to expand and hire new employees.

Jarhead seems to ignore these facts....lol

 

[Zona]

If the Dums can't convince a limp wrist RINO like Olympia Snowe, always a reliable vote for Democrats, to vote for something then the legislation must really suck.

For anyone who wants to learn everything they need to know about Rabbi, see below.

 

[JWBooth]

If the Dums can't convince a limp wrist RINO like Olympia Snowe, always a reliable vote for Democrats, to vote for something then the legislation must really suck.

For anyone who wants to learn everything they need to know about Rabbi, see below.

With that guy everyday is a new opportunity for him to make pronouncements even more stupid than those from the day before.

 

[Flopper]

You guys can use the same old blame the republicans defense if you want, But think about this.

All the republicans were asking for was to make cuts somewhere else to pay for it before passing more spending.

So if the Democrats really wanted to pass it all they had to do was give a little, be responsible and actually pay for something for a change. It is their own unwillingness to compromise that killed this bill. Not to mention the fact that the Dems still have a Majority so actually there had to be some Democrat Hold outs as well that helped kill this bill. Also and most important is the fact that like I said the dems could have compromised and found something to cut somewhere to come up with the money to pay for this bill, or they could have stole more money from TARP to pay for it, but no they have chosen to play politics and try and make the Republicans look bad for "KILLING UNEMPLOYMENT." When they have the Majority. What a lame ass joke. Please I hope you people are not buying it.

And before you attack me know that I am currently basically unemployed and have been for 16 months. (I say basically because I do get work occasionally through a Construction service I work for but its pretty sporadic at the moment). It is not for lack of trying that I am still unemployed I assure you. I live in Northern Michigan and we are in anything but a recovery up here.

So Yes I wish this bill had passed, But I also agree in principle to what the Republicans were asking for. We can not simply just keep printing and borrowing money. It was and is perfectly rational of the Republicans to ask that we pay for this before we pass it. Even if they did it out of political motivations the point is still very valid. While the Dems are simply being assholes, Refusing to budge, Refusing to be fiscally responsible, and trying to play the blame game again. Do they even have any other plays in their play book? They call the republicans the party of no, But all the Dems are is the party of "it's the republicans fault" Even when they have near super majorities they are still blaming the Republicans. It is truly pathetic.

As I recall there were about 20 Democrats that went along with the Republicans.

Congress can't find 35 billion for the real victims of the financial meltdown, yet they had no problem finding nearly a trillion dollars to bailout banks, insurance companies, Wall Street, and GM. Typical.

 

[oreo]

Senate Republicans Kill Unemployment Measure | The State Column


Without looking into it too much I am on board with letting it die. If we do this yet again, when will it cease? Many people stop looking for work after they begin to draw until the benefits are coming close to an end. That is the sad truth and if we continually push the benefits out there is no reason for people to look for work.

What say you?

First of all Republicans are the MINORITY in the senate and can't "kill" anything. However--there comes a point when someone has been on unemployment benefits for 1-1/2 years that the check needs to STOP--otherwise we bankrupt this country--and then we're all unemployed.

1-1/2 years is time to get back to work--no matter if you have to find two jobs to make that mortgage payment that is what needs to be done. Sitting around waiting for your old employer to call you to back to work isn't working this time.

 

[oreo]

You guys can use the same old blame the republicans defense if you want, But think about this.

All the republicans were asking for was to make cuts somewhere else to pay for it before passing more spending.

So if the Democrats really wanted to pass it all they had to do was give a little, be responsible and actually pay for something for a change. It is their own unwillingness to compromise that killed this bill. Not to mention the fact that the Dems still have a Majority so actually there had to be some Democrat Hold outs as well that helped kill this bill. Also and most important is the fact that like I said the dems could have compromised and found something to cut somewhere to come up with the money to pay for this bill, or they could have stole more money from TARP to pay for it, but no they have chosen to play politics and try and make the Republicans look bad for "KILLING UNEMPLOYMENT." When they have the Majority. What a lame ass joke. Please I hope you people are not buying it.

And before you attack me know that I am currently basically unemployed and have been for 16 months. (I say basically because I do get work occasionally through a Construction service I work for but its pretty sporadic at the moment). It is not for lack of trying that I am still unemployed I assure you. I live in Northern Michigan and we are in anything but a recovery up here.

So Yes I wish this bill had passed, But I also agree in principle to what the Republicans were asking for. We can not simply just keep printing and borrowing money. It was and is perfectly rational of the Republicans to ask that we pay for this before we pass it. Even if they did it out of political motivations the point is still very valid. While the Dems are simply being assholes, Refusing to budge, Refusing to be fiscally responsible, and trying to play the blame game again. Do they even have any other plays in their play book? They call the republicans the party of no, But all the Dems are is the party of "it's the republicans fault" Even when they have near super majorities they are still blaming the Republicans. It is truly pathetic.

As I recall there were about 20 Democrats that went along with the Republicans.

Congress can't find 35 billion for the real victims of the financial meltdown, yet they had no problem finding nearly a trillion dollars to bailout banks, insurance companies, Wall Street, and GM. Typical.

That's just it--Americans always get the stick in the end. You got the stick over Fannie/Freddie--when our government decided to co-sign our names to 50% of the mortgages in this country--while the government was lowering lending standards. You got the stick when Wall Streeters bought up those mortgage backed securities and started trading them in their grand casino's called derivitives. You lost your 401K--because the market then collapsed--and now you lose your unemployment check--and all because of Government failures and incompetence. Welcome to the USA.

 

[Greenbeard]

First of all Republicans are the MINORITY in the senate and can't "kill" anything.

So you think the correct headline would be "Ben Nelson kills unemployment measure"?

 

[oreo]

First of all Republicans are the MINORITY in the senate and can't "kill" anything.

So you think the correct headline would be "Ben Nelson kills unemployment measure"?

The entire point is: If this bill is actually dead in the water--it's because there are a lot of democrats saying NO MORE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT EXTENSIONS. Republicans by themselves would not be able to stop it.

 

[Greenbeard]

First of all Republicans are the MINORITY in the senate and can't "kill" anything.

So you think the correct headline would be "Ben Nelson kills unemployment measure"?

The entire point is: If this bill is actually dead in the water--it's because there are a lot of democrats saying NO MORE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT EXTENSIONS. Republicans by themselves would not be able to stop it.

If by "a lot of Democrats" you mean the one who voted against it--Ben Nelson--then sure. One defection was enough to sink it because Republicans monolithically opposed it, even after it was trimmed and cost offsets for most of the bill were found.

 

[American Horse]

First of all Republicans are the MINORITY in the senate and can't "kill" anything.

So you think the correct headline would be "Ben Nelson kills unemployment measure"?

Mr. Reid said the Senate will move on and address additional matters.

Democrats, who control the Senate with 59 members, focused on winning over Maine Republican Senators Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins after Nebraska Democrat Ben Nelson, all of whom demanded the bill not add to the deficit.

Of course not; the correct answer is none of the three.

 

[Avatar4321]

Don't they have constituents on unemployment? I mean seriously, aren't they in fact hurting the people who voted them in ?

Its called unemployment benefits because you paid for it with taxes. Its unemployment insurance.

How is it good to leave people on unemployment? They don't need to be unemployed. They need to find or create work. Stop handing out free money and pretending you are fixing things with it.

 

[The T]

Don't they have constituents on unemployment? I mean seriously, aren't they in fact hurting the people who voted them in ?

Its called unemployment benefits because you paid for it with taxes. Its unemployment insurance.

How is it good to leave people on unemployment? They don't need to be unemployed. They need to find or create work. Stop handing out free money and pretending you are fixing things with it.

This is the key. JOBS. Not government ones either as we've seen..the Government needs to cease trying to take over business and let business get back to what they do best? And try to lift punitive taxation while they're at it?

It's the only way jobs and the market are ever going to get going again.

NO ONE enjoys being unemployed or having to jump through hoops to get what's rightfully theirs. I know several folks unemployed...and I can tell you they'd rather be working again and bein a producer rather than a burden.

Burden? Yep Burden. That is the way that they see it. It's a matter of pride with most people. They know what the roadblocks are, where it's coming from...and these people VOTE.