Bill of Non-Rights: Do you agree or not?

Sorry, but you don't. A "right" comes with no cost to your neighbor.

When your neighbor has to pay for your "rights", he becomes your slave. We abolished slavery (Republicans did anyway).

Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
And that has noting to do with the contention that you have a right to free healthcare.

You are responsible for your actions as is the dump site. Should their actions cause you harm then they are liable. There is no justification to force others into covering healthcare for you because someone somewhere may or may not do something that might cause you harm.

Like a tax.......bam, just like that.
Yes, you openly violate others rights 'just like that.'

There is no justification in allowing it to happen to begin with.
'Allowing' it?

You assume that it is known what the effects are going to be and ignored. No, there is no justification for that. You will never know all the possible outcomes from living however and they are not all going to be positive.
 
Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
And that has noting to do with the contention that you have a right to free healthcare.

You are responsible for your actions as is the dump site. Should their actions cause you harm then they are liable. There is no justification to force others into covering healthcare for you because someone somewhere may or may not do something that might cause you harm.

Like a tax.......bam, just like that.
Yes, you openly violate others rights 'just like that.'

There is no justification in allowing it to happen to begin with.
What does that have to do with the rights argument? You're off on a tangent.

I am on target.
 
Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
And that has noting to do with the contention that you have a right to free healthcare.

You are responsible for your actions as is the dump site. Should their actions cause you harm then they are liable. There is no justification to force others into covering healthcare for you because someone somewhere may or may not do something that might cause you harm.

Like a tax.......bam, just like that.
Yes, you openly violate others rights 'just like that.'

There is no justification in allowing it to happen to begin with.
'Allowing' it?

You assume that it is known what the effects are going to be and ignored. No, there is no justification for that. You will never know all the possible outcomes from living however and they are not all going to be positive.

You're reaching to protect it.
 
And that has noting to do with the contention that you have a right to free healthcare.

You are responsible for your actions as is the dump site. Should their actions cause you harm then they are liable. There is no justification to force others into covering healthcare for you because someone somewhere may or may not do something that might cause you harm.

Like a tax.......bam, just like that.
Yes, you openly violate others rights 'just like that.'

There is no justification in allowing it to happen to begin with.
What does that have to do with the rights argument? You're off on a tangent.

I am on target.
No, you're arguing what you believe should be not what is, that's a completely different subject.
 
You do not have the right to free health care.

But, you do.
Sorry, but you don't. A "right" comes with no cost to your neighbor.

When your neighbor has to pay for your "rights", he becomes your slave. We abolished slavery (Republicans did anyway).

Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
Even that does not give one the right to free healthcare but what one does have is the right to sue the responsible party for redress of grievances to include "pain and suffering".

That would be assuming the complainant moved into an area and then the plaintiff started some action that turned out to be detrimental.
 
And that has noting to do with the contention that you have a right to free healthcare.

You are responsible for your actions as is the dump site. Should their actions cause you harm then they are liable. There is no justification to force others into covering healthcare for you because someone somewhere may or may not do something that might cause you harm.

Like a tax.......bam, just like that.
Yes, you openly violate others rights 'just like that.'

There is no justification in allowing it to happen to begin with.
'Allowing' it?

You assume that it is known what the effects are going to be and ignored. No, there is no justification for that. You will never know all the possible outcomes from living however and they are not all going to be positive.

You're reaching to protect it.
You are being nonsensical.

How about actually stating an argument for your point or reformulating it. At this point all you are doing is avoiding actual conversation.
 
You do not have the right to free health care.

But, you do.
Sorry, but you don't. A "right" comes with no cost to your neighbor.

When your neighbor has to pay for your "rights", he becomes your slave. We abolished slavery (Republicans did anyway).

Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
And that has noting to do with the contention that you have a right to free healthcare.

You are responsible for your actions as is the dump site. Should their actions cause you harm then they are liable. There is no justification to force others into covering healthcare for you because someone somewhere may or may not do something that might cause you harm.

Like a tax.......bam, just like that.

Like barrycare?
 
But, you do.
Sorry, but you don't. A "right" comes with no cost to your neighbor.

When your neighbor has to pay for your "rights", he becomes your slave. We abolished slavery (Republicans did anyway).

Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
Even that does not give one the right to free healthcare but what one does have is the right to sue the responsible party for redress of grievances to include "pain and suffering".

So, you can get your money out of it---if you can stay alive long enough for it to get through the courts.
You or your heirs.

Ringel05 Disir
and that still isn't equal protection of the laws and right to life
if you lose yours to cancer from corporate abuse
and the damages get paid to your estate after you die
if they get paid at all. How many corporations go bankrupt and never pay
back the costs, while their profits go paid out like the Enron pyramid model?
 
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You do not have the right to free health care.

But, you do.
Sorry, but you don't. A "right" comes with no cost to your neighbor.

When your neighbor has to pay for your "rights", he becomes your slave. We abolished slavery (Republicans did anyway).

Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
Even that does not give one the right to free healthcare but what one does have is the right to sue the responsible party for redress of grievances to include "pain and suffering".

That would be assuming the complainant moved into an area and then the plaintiff started some action that turned out to be detrimental.
I was simply addressing what is a guaranteed right and what isn't, as for the details, have fun. :thup:
 
We see this kind of crap in Houston and the surrounding areas all the time.
Someone will move into the vicinity of a chemical plant that is known to produce chemicals that can cause cancer and while the chem plant is following all the proper regulations they end up getting sued.
Who's fault is it?
 
Sorry, but you don't. A "right" comes with no cost to your neighbor.

When your neighbor has to pay for your "rights", he becomes your slave. We abolished slavery (Republicans did anyway).

Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
Even that does not give one the right to free healthcare but what one does have is the right to sue the responsible party for redress of grievances to include "pain and suffering".

So, you can get your money out of it---if you can stay alive long enough for it to get through the courts.
You or your heirs.

Ringel05
and that still isn't equal protection of the laws and right to life
if you lose yours to cancer from corporate abuse
and the damages get paid to your estate after you die
if they get paid at all. How many corporations go bankrupt and never pay
back the costs, while their profits go paid out like the Enron pyramid model?
Not my point. Again (for clarification) free healthcare is not a right guaranteed under the constitution, the right to redress of grievances is. That's all I was saying, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Like a tax.......bam, just like that.
Yes, you openly violate others rights 'just like that.'

There is no justification in allowing it to happen to begin with.
What does that have to do with the rights argument? You're off on a tangent.

I am on target.
No, you're arguing what you believe should be not what is, that's a completely different subject.

You're starting with a bill of non-rights. You do in fact have a right to health care and the authority like in tax and spend and general welfare clauses.
 
But, you do.
Sorry, but you don't. A "right" comes with no cost to your neighbor.

When your neighbor has to pay for your "rights", he becomes your slave. We abolished slavery (Republicans did anyway).

Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
And that has noting to do with the contention that you have a right to free healthcare.

You are responsible for your actions as is the dump site. Should their actions cause you harm then they are liable. There is no justification to force others into covering healthcare for you because someone somewhere may or may not do something that might cause you harm.

Like a tax.......bam, just like that.

Like barrycare?

Barrycare used the commerce clause.
 
Yes, you openly violate others rights 'just like that.'

There is no justification in allowing it to happen to begin with.
What does that have to do with the rights argument? You're off on a tangent.

I am on target.
No, you're arguing what you believe should be not what is, that's a completely different subject.

You're starting with a bill of non-rights. You do in fact have a right to health care and the authority like in tax and spend and general welfare clauses.
That's an interpretation and a relatively new one at that. Show me the historical precedence that proves your claim.
 
Sorry, but you don't. A "right" comes with no cost to your neighbor.

When your neighbor has to pay for your "rights", he becomes your slave. We abolished slavery (Republicans did anyway).

Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
And that has noting to do with the contention that you have a right to free healthcare.

You are responsible for your actions as is the dump site. Should their actions cause you harm then they are liable. There is no justification to force others into covering healthcare for you because someone somewhere may or may not do something that might cause you harm.

Like a tax.......bam, just like that.

Like barrycare?

Barrycare used the commerce clause.

Which they falsely claimed was a legal tax.
 
15th post
Sorry, but you don't. A "right" comes with no cost to your neighbor.

When your neighbor has to pay for your "rights", he becomes your slave. We abolished slavery (Republicans did anyway).

Wrong answer. If you set up a dump site x amount of miles away from a town and the people in the town are showing an increase in cancer or even asthma then you have an issue. People that are sick are less productive.
And that has noting to do with the contention that you have a right to free healthcare.

You are responsible for your actions as is the dump site. Should their actions cause you harm then they are liable. There is no justification to force others into covering healthcare for you because someone somewhere may or may not do something that might cause you harm.

Like a tax.......bam, just like that.

Like barrycare?

Barrycare used the commerce clause.
Yet it did not guarantee free healthcare or complete overarching coverage in all 50 states and our Territories nor was the Constitution amended hence it's still not a right.
 
There is no justification in allowing it to happen to begin with.
What does that have to do with the rights argument? You're off on a tangent.

I am on target.
No, you're arguing what you believe should be not what is, that's a completely different subject.

You're starting with a bill of non-rights. You do in fact have a right to health care and the authority like in tax and spend and general welfare clauses.
That's an interpretation and a relatively new one at that. Show me the historical precedence that proves your claim.
The left has redefined rights. First with public education in Boston, eventually with suffrage, and now with virtually everything.
 
What does your emotive justifications and emotive judgments have to do with what is or is not covered under the Constitution?

Are you quite sure that isn't backwards? It absolutely can be covered under the constitution.
I'm not discussing whether it can be added or not, (added because no matter which Amendment you or politicians and lawyers try to spin it doesn't currently exist), I'm discussing what is there without personal judgment.

I don't need an amendment for it. It can be done within the constitution.

Dear Disir

A. if you are talking about the duty to promote the general welfare
1. the arguments for general welfare and commerce clause already failed when attempted to use these for ACA
2. what passed the SCOTUS was arguing as a tax bill,
but if you notice, ACA was not passed through Congress as a tax bill but as a public health bill.

so it never passed Constitutional procedures through both legislative (and executive) and judicial.
it was actually a DIFFERENT reading and/or revision of the bill
a. the public health bill version passed through Congress and presumably would have FAILED had it been presented as a tax bill
b. the version passed and approved by SCOTUS was revising it as a TAX bill that was argued as abuse of judicial power to overreach into legislative this way

B. since half the nation believes in STATES RIGHTS and also right of the people to free market
you would have to pass an Amendment authorizing Federal Govt to manage regulate or mandate health care

This step was skipped when Obama and Congress passed ACA and that's why it is contested to this day as Unconstitutional and violation of states' rights.

Two other Constitutional arguments being made
1. passing a law such as ACA mandates *without citizens consent* basically DEPRIVES
law abiding citizens of liberty without due process to prove they have committed any crime
2. requiring labor or income to pay for costs or services of health care
*without citizens consent* would essentially constitute "involuntary servitude"
so both of these arguments require *CONSENT of the taxpaying citizens*, ie
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, in order not to violate other
existing Constitutional rights and principles.

C. Now some people believe that Statists who believe in using Govt to establish beliefs
such as "right to health care" by just making and passing laws by majority rule
DO have this right to make and pass such laws, REGARDLESS of other people's Constitutional beliefs in LIMITS on federal govt that otherwise require a Constitutional Amendment to change

I don't believe that is Constitutional, to impose one political belief over the other.

As a Constitutionalist myself, I treat political beliefs equally as religious beliefs,
and these should require a Consensus on law and process so there is no imposition
of one creed abusing govt to dominate, impose, exclude or discriminate against another.

Others argue with me, saying the First and Fourteenth Amendments do not
apply to political beliefs. I say that is discrimination to treat religious beliefs
differently from secular, political or other personal beliefs. To me these are
inherent as part of people's spiritual identity, and should be respected regardless
if these are expressed using religious political or secular terms.

So this is how I treat "the right to health care"
as a political belief covered Equally by the First Amendment,
where govt can neither establish nor prohibit the exercise of this belief.


If people agree to a political process, that's fine,
but that means including ALL OTHER "political beliefs"
including states' rights and "due process of laws before
depriving citizens of liberty"


You cannot simply pass a law that deprives citizens of free choice
in a matter when they have committed no crime, or it's violating
other Constitutional laws and principles.
 
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There is no justification in allowing it to happen to begin with.
What does that have to do with the rights argument? You're off on a tangent.

I am on target.
No, you're arguing what you believe should be not what is, that's a completely different subject.

You're starting with a bill of non-rights. You do in fact have a right to health care and the authority like in tax and spend and general welfare clauses.
That's an interpretation and a relatively new one at that. Show me the historical precedence that proves your claim.

Medicare was originally passed under tax and spend and general welfare clause.
 
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