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You’re talking about two different thingsNot if you are stopping them from workingI never said I was unhappy with my events. I’m proud of my actions. And you lie about what I want.. I want to live in a free country, The Constitution doesn’t say we must live under a police stateNo, what I said is accurate. You have specifically said you wanted fewer cops on the streets and let the street fight happen. I can go find a quote if you want, but since you have expressed that several times, we both know you have said it.
And oddly, you have expressed a lot of anger over your felony, saying getting arrested for street fighting and ending up with a felony record has made your life much harder. But you WANT these protesters to get felony convictions and have it make their lives much harder. Not for all trespassing, but for oil, gas, and coal you want them to suffer a felony record. Wow. That is a level of hypocrisy that is stunning.
Having felony punishment for misdomenor actions against gas, oil, and coal IS a police state.
Yes, it is still a police state. Whether or not you live in a police state has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not anyone is working, you idiot.
Your going out to cause trouble I want to live free.. wtf you talking aboutYou’re talking about two different thingsNot if you are stopping them from workingI never said I was unhappy with my events. I’m proud of my actions. And you lie about what I want.. I want to live in a free country, The Constitution doesn’t say we must live under a police state
Having felony punishment for misdomenor actions against gas, oil, and coal IS a police state.
Yes, it is still a police state. Whether or not you live in a police state has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not anyone is working, you idiot.
You were complaining about living in a police state.
I pointed out that a gas or oil company using public law enforcement, at no cost to them, to quell rebellion, with stricter penalties than others, IS living in a police state.
You replied "Not if you are stopping them from working".
I am talking about what we have been talking about. If you can't keep up, don't post.
No thanks. Lock those smelly unwashed anti-pipeline protesters up and throw away the key.
Besides, WV is coal country. Why would Big Coal even care about gas pipelines?
Its called representative government.Sounds like a lot of them there need removed even prior to this.
Ackchooly, what it sounds like is Fascism.
When people learn the truth about certain bureaucrats they have the right to get out and support the removal of such from the government bodies.
It bans disobedience not protest
Civil disobedience is a form of protest. It is one of the few meothos the people have of getting their voices heard over the sound of companies buying politicians.
Yes destroying private property and threatening workers isn’t “civil disobedience”, it’s terrorism.West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony
Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.
Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).
You’re talking about two different thingsNot if you are stopping them from workingI never said I was unhappy with my events. I’m proud of my actions. And you lie about what I want.. I want to live in a free country, The Constitution doesn’t say we must live under a police state
Having felony punishment for misdomenor actions against gas, oil, and coal IS a police state.
Yes, it is still a police state. Whether or not you live in a police state has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not anyone is working, you idiot.
You were complaining about living in a police state.
I pointed out that a gas or oil company using public law enforcement, at no cost to them, to quell rebellion, with stricter penalties than others, IS living in a police state.
You replied "Not if you are stopping them from working".
I am talking about what we have been talking about. If you can't keep up, don't post.
Winter is a anti trumper
I am sure there are already laws on the books covering vandalism, violence, etc. No excuse for violence or destruction of other peoples property but I see this legislation as making a way for it to be abused by bullies and in my mind that is what some utilities are.Its called representative government.Sounds like a lot of them there need removed even prior to this.
Ackchooly, what it sounds like is Fascism.
When people learn the truth about certain bureaucrats they have the right to get out and support the removal of such from the government bodies.
No, they are sore losers. They can’t stop such pipelines by outlawing them, so terrorism is what they resort to. Peaceful protesting doesn’t convince people to act and demand to outlaw them? Tough shit, that’s how democracy works. But when you don’t get your way, you excuse violence to get your political agenda, that’s terrorism.
The radical left is doing exactly this in Canada. Native tribes voted to allow a gas pipeline project because it gives them jobs. But moronic shitbag liberals, mostly whites, are “protesting” by blocking government buildings and the pipelines and shutting them down. So democracy of indigenous tribes takes a back seat to white Marxist terrorists.
Lovely ideology, ain’t it?
There you hit it, "stricter penalties", a special set of laws for commerce. It falls within the original definition of fascism. It parallels with making union strikes illegal.You’re talking about two different thingsNot if you are stopping them from workingI never said I was unhappy with my events. I’m proud of my actions. And you lie about what I want.. I want to live in a free country, The Constitution doesn’t say we must live under a police state
Having felony punishment for misdomenor actions against gas, oil, and coal IS a police state.
Yes, it is still a police state. Whether or not you live in a police state has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not anyone is working, you idiot.
You were complaining about living in a police state.
I pointed out that a gas or oil company using public law enforcement, at no cost to them, to quell rebellion, with stricter penalties than others, IS living in a police state.
You replied "Not if you are stopping them from working".
I am talking about what we have been talking about. If you can't keep up, don't post.
So if the owner of the property gives permission for protestors to be there but the company claiming easement rights doesn't a person can be charged, jailed and fined?(c)(1) Any person who willfully and knowingly trespasses or enters property containing a critical infrastructure facility without permission by the owner of the property or lawful occupant thereof is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500, or confined in jail not less than 30 days nor more than one year, or both fined and confined.West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony
Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.
Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).
Way to misrepresent the proposed legislation. The bill in question clearly refers to destruction of property that is deemed to be critical infrastructure. Let me guess, you didn't actually read it.
(c)(1) Any person who willfully and knowingly trespasses or enters property containing a critical infrastructure facility without permission by the owner of the property or lawful occupant thereof is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500, or confined in jail not less than 30 days nor more than one year, or both fined and confined. If the intent of the trespasser is to willfully damage, destroy, vandalize, deface, tamper with equipment, or impede or inhibit operations of the critical infrastructure facility, the person is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $1,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than three years, or both fined and imprisoned.
(2) Any person who willfully damages, destroys, vandalizes, defaces or tampers with equipment in a critical infrastructure facility is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $2,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for a term of not less than one year nor more than five years, or both fined and imprisoned.
HB 4615 Text
Facts are your friend.
If the intent of the trespasser is to willfully damage, destroy, vandalize, deface, tamper with equipment, or impede or inhibit operations of the critical infrastructure facility, the person is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $1,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than three years, or both fined and imprisoned.
Reading this it sounds like if a person even walks upon a such property in protest they will be subject to a charge, jail and fine; and then if...intent...penalties worsen. Am I wrong?
The first part is pretty standard trespass law, nothing strange about it.
The 2nd part is for morons who cement themselves to the ground inside the facility and disrupt its normal operation.
Even then, unless they have done it over and over there are plea bargains
...and making sure the trains run on time.Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?
This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.
Nice attempted fascist reference.
No go back to your hole, or make an actual point.
Hey, I made the same point first. But that's just stating the obvious.
I was gonna go with citing a generic company called "I.G. Farben" but wasn't sure who would get that.
Those who ignore history, etc....
Wow, going Godwin....
"Fascism" was already established from the beginning here. What do you want, a Franco reference?
right, but it should NOT be a felony.... that is EXTREME!!!Like I'm going to sympathize with an idiot editor who also founded a
single payer health care for america website?
No thanks. Lock those smelly unwashed anti-pipeline protesters up and throw away the key.
Besides, WV is coal country. Why would Big Coal even care about gas pipelines?
The article specifically mentions "other fossil fual projects".
And people should have a voice. I hate that protestors cause problems for fossil fuel companies. But those people deserve the right to voice their grievances.
Is this about protesting outside the fence of the property being worked on, or actually interfering with the work being done?
Sorry, but if you believe in your cause enough to disrupt the work being done, then you should have the conviction to take your punishment, serve your sentence and do it again.
...and making sure the trains run on time.
Nice attempted fascist reference.
No go back to your hole, or make an actual point.
Hey, I made the same point first. But that's just stating the obvious.
I was gonna go with citing a generic company called "I.G. Farben" but wasn't sure who would get that.
Those who ignore history, etc....
Wow, going Godwin....
"Fascism" was already established from the beginning here. What do you want, a Franco reference?
Fascism wasn't established in this case, just the typical lefty concept of:
There are already laws on the books for vandals. When you see the most recent postings I think Winterborn explained it well why it is an issue. It is giving special concessions and privileges to a corporate status.So if the owner of the property gives permission for protestors to be there but the company claiming easement rights doesn't a person can be charged, jailed and fined?(c)(1) Any person who willfully and knowingly trespasses or enters property containing a critical infrastructure facility without permission by the owner of the property or lawful occupant thereof is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500, or confined in jail not less than 30 days nor more than one year, or both fined and confined.West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony
Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.
Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).
Way to misrepresent the proposed legislation. The bill in question clearly refers to destruction of property that is deemed to be critical infrastructure. Let me guess, you didn't actually read it.
(c)(1) Any person who willfully and knowingly trespasses or enters property containing a critical infrastructure facility without permission by the owner of the property or lawful occupant thereof is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500, or confined in jail not less than 30 days nor more than one year, or both fined and confined. If the intent of the trespasser is to willfully damage, destroy, vandalize, deface, tamper with equipment, or impede or inhibit operations of the critical infrastructure facility, the person is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $1,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than three years, or both fined and imprisoned.
(2) Any person who willfully damages, destroys, vandalizes, defaces or tampers with equipment in a critical infrastructure facility is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $2,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for a term of not less than one year nor more than five years, or both fined and imprisoned.
HB 4615 Text
Facts are your friend.
If the intent of the trespasser is to willfully damage, destroy, vandalize, deface, tamper with equipment, or impede or inhibit operations of the critical infrastructure facility, the person is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $1,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than three years, or both fined and imprisoned.
Reading this it sounds like if a person even walks upon a such property in protest they will be subject to a charge, jail and fine; and then if...intent...penalties worsen. Am I wrong?
The first part is pretty standard trespass law, nothing strange about it.
The 2nd part is for morons who cement themselves to the ground inside the facility and disrupt its normal operation.
Even then, unless they have done it over and over there are plea bargains
If they are occupying and vandalizing the easement, why not?
If the owner wants them to occupy the land not under the easement, i don't think this would apply anyway.
This and similar measures are about punishing dissent and placing corporate interests above that of the right of the people to peaceably assemble – regardless whether protests concern the private or public sectors.No one is going to jail for speaking their mind. What you cant do is fuck with pipelines by chaining yourself to their equipment, blocking their vehicles from coming and going, and otherwise shutting down their business. You deserve jail time if you do that shit.West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony
Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.
Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).
Felony convictions for civil disobedience? Sounds like fascism to me.
Felony convictions for civil disobedience against a corporatocracy, specifically.
Isn't civil disobedience technically against government, or at least government policies?
This is about vandalizing private property, or preventing workers from performing their duties.
Vandalizing private property or preventing workers from performing their duties is a red herring fallacy; a bad faith contrivance intended to ‘justify’ government punishment of dissent.
Like I'm going to sympathize with an idiot editor who also founded a
single payer health care for america website?
No thanks. Lock those smelly unwashed anti-pipeline protesters up and throw away the key.
Besides, WV is coal country. Why would Big Coal even care about gas pipelines?
The article specifically mentions "other fossil fual projects".
And people should have a voice. I hate that protestors cause problems for fossil fuel companies. But those people deserve the right to voice their grievances.
Is this about protesting outside the fence of the property being worked on, or actually interfering with the work being done?
Sorry, but if you believe in your cause enough to disrupt the work being done, then you should have the conviction to take your punishment, serve your sentence and do it again.
I agree with you in part- if you take part in civil disobedience, and get arrested for it- then part of your civil disobedience is taking the punishment.
But in this case the Gas industry is asking for a special carve out- so that protesters who disrupt their business get treated more harshly than protesters that disrupt say a 7-11 or a gun shop.
Different treatment to benefit a specific industry seems wrong to me- how about you?
Nice attempted fascist reference.
No go back to your hole, or make an actual point.
Hey, I made the same point first. But that's just stating the obvious.
I was gonna go with citing a generic company called "I.G. Farben" but wasn't sure who would get that.
Those who ignore history, etc....
Wow, going Godwin....
"Fascism" was already established from the beginning here. What do you want, a Franco reference?
Fascism wasn't established in this case, just the typical lefty concept of:
Funny how I keep saying "fascism" yet you keep saying "Hitler". Godwin much?
HINT: one is a process, the other is a person. Think about it.
