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There are already laws on the books for vandals. When you see the most recent postings I think Winterborn explained it well why it is an issue. It is giving special concessions and privileges to a corporate status.So if the owner of the property gives permission for protestors to be there but the company claiming easement rights doesn't a person can be charged, jailed and fined?(c)(1) Any person who willfully and knowingly trespasses or enters property containing a critical infrastructure facility without permission by the owner of the property or lawful occupant thereof is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500, or confined in jail not less than 30 days nor more than one year, or both fined and confined.Way to misrepresent the proposed legislation. The bill in question clearly refers to destruction of property that is deemed to be critical infrastructure. Let me guess, you didn't actually read it.
(c)(1) Any person who willfully and knowingly trespasses or enters property containing a critical infrastructure facility without permission by the owner of the property or lawful occupant thereof is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500, or confined in jail not less than 30 days nor more than one year, or both fined and confined. If the intent of the trespasser is to willfully damage, destroy, vandalize, deface, tamper with equipment, or impede or inhibit operations of the critical infrastructure facility, the person is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $1,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than three years, or both fined and imprisoned.
(2) Any person who willfully damages, destroys, vandalizes, defaces or tampers with equipment in a critical infrastructure facility is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $2,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for a term of not less than one year nor more than five years, or both fined and imprisoned.
HB 4615 Text
Facts are your friend.
If the intent of the trespasser is to willfully damage, destroy, vandalize, deface, tamper with equipment, or impede or inhibit operations of the critical infrastructure facility, the person is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $1,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than three years, or both fined and imprisoned.
Reading this it sounds like if a person even walks upon a such property in protest they will be subject to a charge, jail and fine; and then if...intent...penalties worsen. Am I wrong?
The first part is pretty standard trespass law, nothing strange about it.
The 2nd part is for morons who cement themselves to the ground inside the facility and disrupt its normal operation.
Even then, unless they have done it over and over there are plea bargains
If they are occupying and vandalizing the easement, why not?
If the owner wants them to occupy the land not under the easement, i don't think this would apply anyway.
It is also like giving someone a stricter sentence for robbing a casino rather than robbing a quick stop. Both were robbed but why is the casino able to have a person charged for pretender in a stickup than a robber with an actual gun in a quick stop. KIS, all should get the basic rights, privileges and considerations like anything else. They already have legislation to cover vandals.
If we had arrested the hijackers before 9-11 would you have come to their defense too? They were only guilty of "thought crimes".I am sure there are already laws on the books covering vandalism, violence, etc. No excuse for violence or destruction of other peoples property but I see this legislation as making a way for it to be abused by bullies and in my mind that is what some utilities are.Its called representative government.Sounds like a lot of them there need removed even prior to this.
Ackchooly, what it sounds like is Fascism.
When people learn the truth about certain bureaucrats they have the right to get out and support the removal of such from the government bodies.
No, they are sore losers. They can’t stop such pipelines by outlawing them, so terrorism is what they resort to. Peaceful protesting doesn’t convince people to act and demand to outlaw them? Tough shit, that’s how democracy works. But when you don’t get your way, you excuse violence to get your political agenda, that’s terrorism.
The radical left is doing exactly this in Canada. Native tribes voted to allow a gas pipeline project because it gives them jobs. But moronic shitbag liberals, mostly whites, are “protesting” by blocking government buildings and the pipelines and shutting them down. So democracy of indigenous tribes takes a back seat to white Marxist terrorists.
Lovely ideology, ain’t it?
This guy was excessively prosecuted for thought crimes instead of just getting the normal charges to what he did wrong. I'm not into giving the government more power than necessary as it can always be abused in the wrong hands no matter which side one leans to.
White supremacist Coast Guard officer sentenced to 13 years in prison
Were they citizens of the United States of America? Nope they weren't; they should have been deported if suspected.If we had arrested the hijackers before 9-11 would you have come to their defense too? They were only guilty of "thought crimes".I am sure there are already laws on the books covering vandalism, violence, etc. No excuse for violence or destruction of other peoples property but I see this legislation as making a way for it to be abused by bullies and in my mind that is what some utilities are.Its called representative government.Sounds like a lot of them there need removed even prior to this.
Ackchooly, what it sounds like is Fascism.
When people learn the truth about certain bureaucrats they have the right to get out and support the removal of such from the government bodies.
No, they are sore losers. They can’t stop such pipelines by outlawing them, so terrorism is what they resort to. Peaceful protesting doesn’t convince people to act and demand to outlaw them? Tough shit, that’s how democracy works. But when you don’t get your way, you excuse violence to get your political agenda, that’s terrorism.
The radical left is doing exactly this in Canada. Native tribes voted to allow a gas pipeline project because it gives them jobs. But moronic shitbag liberals, mostly whites, are “protesting” by blocking government buildings and the pipelines and shutting them down. So democracy of indigenous tribes takes a back seat to white Marxist terrorists.
Lovely ideology, ain’t it?
This guy was excessively prosecuted for thought crimes instead of just getting the normal charges to what he did wrong. I'm not into giving the government more power than necessary as it can always be abused in the wrong hands no matter which side one leans to.
White supremacist Coast Guard officer sentenced to 13 years in prison
In that same note it makes it easier to be abused too by prosecutors and we have a lot of that going on these days. Have you ever had to defend yourself against bogus charges? I have and thank God while my children were still at home I had the ability to do that, not so with later rounds of bogus court bs.There are already laws on the books for vandals. When you see the most recent postings I think Winterborn explained it well why it is an issue. It is giving special concessions and privileges to a corporate status.So if the owner of the property gives permission for protestors to be there but the company claiming easement rights doesn't a person can be charged, jailed and fined?(c)(1) Any person who willfully and knowingly trespasses or enters property containing a critical infrastructure facility without permission by the owner of the property or lawful occupant thereof is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500, or confined in jail not less than 30 days nor more than one year, or both fined and confined.
If the intent of the trespasser is to willfully damage, destroy, vandalize, deface, tamper with equipment, or impede or inhibit operations of the critical infrastructure facility, the person is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than $1,000 or imprisoned in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than three years, or both fined and imprisoned.
Reading this it sounds like if a person even walks upon a such property in protest they will be subject to a charge, jail and fine; and then if...intent...penalties worsen. Am I wrong?
The first part is pretty standard trespass law, nothing strange about it.
The 2nd part is for morons who cement themselves to the ground inside the facility and disrupt its normal operation.
Even then, unless they have done it over and over there are plea bargains
If they are occupying and vandalizing the easement, why not?
If the owner wants them to occupy the land not under the easement, i don't think this would apply anyway.
It is also like giving someone a stricter sentence for robbing a casino rather than robbing a quick stop. Both were robbed but why is the casino able to have a person charged for pretender in a stickup than a robber with an actual gun in a quick stop. KIS, all should get the basic rights, privileges and considerations like anything else. They already have legislation to cover vandals.
Making it specific to infrastructure (and this includes municipal facilities like wastewater and water plants) just makes it easier for prosecutors to make the specific case as it applies to a specific form of vandalism or property damage.
In that same note it makes it easier to be abused too by prosecutors and we have a lot of that going on these days. Have you ever had to defend yourself against bogus charges? I have and thank God while my children were still at home I had the ability to do that, not so with later rounds of bogus court bs.There are already laws on the books for vandals. When you see the most recent postings I think Winterborn explained it well why it is an issue. It is giving special concessions and privileges to a corporate status.So if the owner of the property gives permission for protestors to be there but the company claiming easement rights doesn't a person can be charged, jailed and fined?The first part is pretty standard trespass law, nothing strange about it.
The 2nd part is for morons who cement themselves to the ground inside the facility and disrupt its normal operation.
Even then, unless they have done it over and over there are plea bargains
If they are occupying and vandalizing the easement, why not?
If the owner wants them to occupy the land not under the easement, i don't think this would apply anyway.
It is also like giving someone a stricter sentence for robbing a casino rather than robbing a quick stop. Both were robbed but why is the casino able to have a person charged for pretender in a stickup than a robber with an actual gun in a quick stop. KIS, all should get the basic rights, privileges and considerations like anything else. They already have legislation to cover vandals.
Making it specific to infrastructure (and this includes municipal facilities like wastewater and water plants) just makes it easier for prosecutors to make the specific case as it applies to a specific form of vandalism or property damage.
We see it differently and I will leave it at that.In that same note it makes it easier to be abused too by prosecutors and we have a lot of that going on these days. Have you ever had to defend yourself against bogus charges? I have and thank God while my children were still at home I had the ability to do that, not so with later rounds of bogus court bs.There are already laws on the books for vandals. When you see the most recent postings I think Winterborn explained it well why it is an issue. It is giving special concessions and privileges to a corporate status.So if the owner of the property gives permission for protestors to be there but the company claiming easement rights doesn't a person can be charged, jailed and fined?
If they are occupying and vandalizing the easement, why not?
If the owner wants them to occupy the land not under the easement, i don't think this would apply anyway.
It is also like giving someone a stricter sentence for robbing a casino rather than robbing a quick stop. Both were robbed but why is the casino able to have a person charged for pretender in a stickup than a robber with an actual gun in a quick stop. KIS, all should get the basic rights, privileges and considerations like anything else. They already have legislation to cover vandals.
Making it specific to infrastructure (and this includes municipal facilities like wastewater and water plants) just makes it easier for prosecutors to make the specific case as it applies to a specific form of vandalism or property damage.
By that logic any changes to laws can make it easier for prosecutors to abuse their charges.
It's actually not that astounding.Fascism doesnt exist in the United States. No one is being slaughtered.Luckily fascism doesnt exist in our nation, so no one gets slaughtered.Hm, fascists make everything they do sound legal before the slaughter.If their business is legal, then fuck off.
Clearly you need to read the issue in this thread. From the beginning.
I bet you think fascism actually LOST World War II, doncha.
Fascism isn't just "slaughter", cupcake.
See post 108.
It's never failed to astound me that the same voices who wail and scream about how "gummint should stay out of my business", then just roll over and go "yes Master may I have another" when Corporatia does the same thing.
Like I'm going to sympathize with an idiot editor who also founded a
single payer health care for america website?
No thanks. Lock those smelly unwashed anti-pipeline protesters up and throw away the key.
Besides, WV is coal country. Why would Big Coal even care about gas pipelines?
The article specifically mentions "other fossil fual projects".
And people should have a voice. I hate that protestors cause problems for fossil fuel companies. But those people deserve the right to voice their grievances.
Is this about protesting outside the fence of the property being worked on, or actually interfering with the work being done?
Sorry, but if you believe in your cause enough to disrupt the work being done, then you should have the conviction to take your punishment, serve your sentence and do it again.
I agree with you in part- if you take part in civil disobedience, and get arrested for it- then part of your civil disobedience is taking the punishment.
But in this case the Gas industry is asking for a special carve out- so that protesters who disrupt their business get treated more harshly than protesters that disrupt say a 7-11 or a gun shop.
Different treatment to benefit a specific industry seems wrong to me- how about you?
The law also includes municipal facilities like wastewater and water treatment plants.
Disrupting a 7-11 makes me late in getting a slurpee, disrupting power plants and other infrastructure can lead to failures or other "bad" things.
Locking yourself to concrete tubes and blocking access to a power plant may seem like a good idea, but what it if prevents someone from getting to some critical equipment that needs attention?
The right to freedom of speech and assembly is not unlimited; it is not a right to protest anywhere whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.West Virginia Legislation Would Make Civil Disobedience Against Gas Pipelines a Felony
Big oil spending money to buy politicians to avoid being held responsible.
Any WV politicians that vote for this legislation should be removed next election (or sooner).
If it passes and is signed into law it won't hold up in court.
The constitution gives everyone the right to freedom of speech and assembly.
There isn't much more American than protesting.
If laws are passed that removes that freedom of assembly and speech. What is to stop some states from making it illegal to protest a woman's reproductive clinic?
Like I'm going to sympathize with an idiot editor who also founded a
single payer health care for america website?
No thanks. Lock those smelly unwashed anti-pipeline protesters up and throw away the key.
Besides, WV is coal country. Why would Big Coal even care about gas pipelines?
The article specifically mentions "other fossil fual projects".
And people should have a voice. I hate that protestors cause problems for fossil fuel companies. But those people deserve the right to voice their grievances.
Is this about protesting outside the fence of the property being worked on, or actually interfering with the work being done?
Sorry, but if you believe in your cause enough to disrupt the work being done, then you should have the conviction to take your punishment, serve your sentence and do it again.
I agree with you in part- if you take part in civil disobedience, and get arrested for it- then part of your civil disobedience is taking the punishment.
But in this case the Gas industry is asking for a special carve out- so that protesters who disrupt their business get treated more harshly than protesters that disrupt say a 7-11 or a gun shop.
Different treatment to benefit a specific industry seems wrong to me- how about you?
The law also includes municipal facilities like wastewater and water treatment plants.
Disrupting a 7-11 makes me late in getting a slurpee, disrupting power plants and other infrastructure can lead to failures or other "bad" things.
Locking yourself to concrete tubes and blocking access to a power plant may seem like a good idea, but what it if prevents someone from getting to some critical equipment that needs attention?
Okay- I retract most of what I said.
And my own mea culpa- I did exactly what I get pissed off when other people do it- I reacted to the article rather than finding out exactly what it says.
Reading the proposed law I don't have a problem with what is written- there may be something hidden there that I am not catching but mere trespass is a misdemeanor and only damage is a felony. I can't see anything wrong with that.
