Bill Maher basically admits abortion is murder, and tells us why we need to embrace it anyway.

[Votto]

By definition, that is correct.

So, if gassing the Jews was legal, it would not be murder?

No, try again, it would stil be murder.

Completely asinine. Do you lay your humanity at the feet of the 9 Black robes to decide your morality?

Idiot.

 

[g5000]

Working together?

Leftists don't compromise with anyone. They simply infiltrate and subvert the system. It is what they are best at. Really, it's all they know.

It is their way or the highway, which is why abortion is being deregulated all across the country via state, even in Red states via state constitutions. They present their amendments as returning to Roe vs. Wade, when in actuality, there is no verbiage to restrain abortions in the third trimester, it is all a big lie to completely deregulate abortion. Now it will all be done in secret.

The extremists have quietly taken over after Roe was overturned. They have zero incentive now to compromise with anyone about anything. It was the only way they could have done it. Like you said, over 2/3 of the populace are opposed to late term abortion, and would never have voted for it, so quietly legalizing it was the only way they could have gotten away with this crap. But Leftists, being Leftists, are full of shit, so there is that.

I have bad news for you.

With your attitiude, you are one of the people getting in the way.

 

[Votto]

I have bad news for you.

With your attitiude, you are one of the people getting in the way.

My attitude? I am simply relaying the reality to you.

What have I said that is wrong?

As for fighting, you should never stop fighting, even if you know you can't win.

 

[marvin martian]

Ok dummy, good luck convincing people that THIS has rights that over-ride the rights of the mother:

If it's "just sementics" and not about substance of what you are looking at, then surely you can find the right words to make it happen without funny costumes and waving Bibles around.

You tried all those arguments when you advocated for slavery. This is no different...

 

[Catsnmeters]

So, if gassing the Jews was legal, it would not be murder?

No, try again, it would stil be murder.

Since murder is the unlawful killing of someone, then no, it would not be murder.

Completely asinine. Do you lay your humanity at the feet of the 9 Black robes to decide your morality?

Idiot.

No, what I do is defer to the 9 black robes who were appointed by the president and approved by the Senate who are both elected by the people.

Murder is illegal. Right? Do you admit this?

So now go to a state where abortion is legal and try to have someone charged with murder for having an abortion.

See what happens.

 

[Votto]

I have been pointing out for many years that a lot people who self-identify as "pro-choice" actually have beliefs which are in direct opposition to Roe V. Wade.

Roe allows for abortion on demand all the way through the second trimester, and yet every poll ever conducted shows 2/3 of all Americans are opposed to abortion after the first trimester.

This means a lot of "pro-choice" people are also opposed to abortion after the first trimester, while Roe allows for abortions in the second trimester.

That is why I have been saying all this time we need to stop allowing the extremists to control the conversation because there is a middle ground upon which pro-lifers and pro-choicers can find common cause. That is, banning abortion after the first trimester.

What's more, we need to start working together to educate the public about birth control. About HALF of all unplanned pregnancies which result in abortion are the result of NO birth control being used. Another fifth are the result of the improper or inconsistent use of birth control.

Just imagine the impact on the incidence of abortions if we could get people to use birth control regularly and properly!

It's far past time for us to take control away from the emotional extremists who are getting in the way of actually achieving success on this issue

Your post kind of makes my point that Roe never addressed the age of personhood.

You say that extremists have taken over, and that the compromise should be banning abortion after the first trimester.

Why? Why are they any less of a human being before the second or the third trimester? Is it due to development? Then a baby should not be considered as human as an adult.

This just points out that the unborn had no real natural rights under Roe vs. Wade to begin with since it was arbitrary.

Again, the question has never been tackled. They are making rulings on abortions without even addressing the question.

 

[Votto]

Since murder is the unlawful killing of someone, then no, it would not be murder.


No, what I do is defer to the 9 black robes who were appointed by the president and approved by the Senate who are both elected by the people.

Murder is illegal. Right? Do you admit this?

So now go to a state where abortion is legal and try to have someone charged with murder for having an abortion.

See what happens.

If you think that our natural rights come from men then you are correct.

But if you think our natural rights come from God, like the Founders did, you are incorrect as the laws of God are self evident.

I don't need the black robes to see it.

 

[Votto]

Since murder is the unlawful killing of someone, then no, it would not be murder.


No, what I do is defer to the 9 black robes who were appointed by the president and approved by the Senate who are both elected by the people.

Murder is illegal. Right? Do you admit this?

So now go to a state where abortion is legal and try to have someone charged with murder for having an abortion.

See what happens.

They have laws that charge people with manslaughter that kill unborn children.

Why?

State Homicide Laws That Recognize Unborn Victims - National Right to Life

National Right to Life Committee April 2, 2018 What appears below is a summary of the laws of the 38 states that recognize the unlawful killing of an unborn child as homicide in at least some circumstances. The federal Unborn Victims of Violence Act, enacted April 1, 2004, covers unborn victims...

www.nrlc.org

It is because it is assumed the children are wanted.

I reckon once they are not wanted, it no longer matters.

 

[g5000]

Your post kind of makes my point that Roe never addressed the age of personhood.

Again, read. The. Decision.

It specifically addresses personhood. You are speaking from ignorance.

They address the "personhood" of the mother balanced against the personhood of the fetus at least 50 times in the decision.

Read. The. Decision.

You say that extremists have taken over, and that the compromise should be banning abortion after the first trimester.

Why? Why are they any less of a human being before the second or the third trimester? Is it due to development? Then a baby should not be considered as human as an adult.

This just points out that the unborn had no real natural rights under Roe vs. Wade to begin with since it was arbitrary.

Again, the question has never been tackled. They are making rulings on abortions without even addressing the question.

You can stand on your moral high ground like everyone else has for the past 50 years and achieve NOTHING.

Or...you can face reality and actually work toward achievable goals.

"The perfect is the enemy of the good."

 

[Votto]

Again, read. The. Decision.

It specifically addresses personhood. You are speaking from ignorance.

They address the "personhood" of the mother balanced against the personhood of the fetus at least 50 times in the decision.

Read. The. Decision.



You can stand on your moral high ground like everyone else has for the past 50 years and achieve NOTHING.

Or...you can face reality and actually work toward achievable goals.

"The perfect is the enemy of the good."

The key I think is putting up a second state Constitutional amendment to ban abortions after a certain trimester.

At least it would reduce abortions.

But currently the Left owns this like they own everything else.

How does one go about it?

State Constitutions in Red States look more like they were written by Hunter Biden than conservatives with the right to abortion, to smoke pot, and to gamble their money away

WTH?

Where is the proposed amendment for parental rights in schools in regard to the gender crap? Where is the state amendment to ban trans in female sports, etc? These would pass easily in red states, but will never see the light of day to be voted on.

But for many pro lifers, fighting for a trimester ban would be akin to fighting for an age restriction to gas the Jews.

It just does not seem right.

 

[JoeB131]

That's for the legal people to figure out. When I flick a light switch, I don't have to figure out how to get power from the plant to my apartment.

Well, you probably should if the lights never come on... which describes the pre-Roe situation.

Then why is the left so hell bent on birth control abortions in the 2nd and the 3rd?

Because we don't want the camel's nose in the tent.

 

[JoeB131]

Correct.

There was a small difference in the incidence of abortion before and after Roe. Abortions increased slightly.

Before Roe v. Wade, t

That's because even those states which banned abortion had exceptions for "the health of the mother". Those states which allowed abortion for "health of the mother" were virtually abortion-on-demand states because doctors can always provide a circumstantial "health of the mother" excuse, and that's what they did. An abortion could be granted for the mothers mental health.

Which is why SCOTUS issued Doe v. Bolen(sp) on the same day, which effectively banned the few restrictions they allowed in the third trimester under "Health of the Mother" exceptions.

I don't think SCOTUS at the time thought that Roe was going to be any more controversial than Griswald overturning the contraception laws 8 years before. These were laws that were routinely ignored.

 

[martybegan]

Well, you probably should if the lights never come on... which describes the pre-Roe situation.


Because we don't want the camel's nose in the tent.

The American people mostly want that nose in there. Propose a 10-15 week ban on birth control abortions with reasonable exceptions and most people would support it.

 

[Catsnmeters]

If you think that our natural rights come from men then you are correct.

We are discussing American law, of course that is what I'm talking about.

But if you think our natural rights come from God, like the Founders did, you are incorrect as the laws of God are self evident.

I recognize your false deities view on abortion manifests itself as punishment for unfaithful women but the one true God is ok with abortion even if not a punishment. Please don't infringe upon my religious rights.

I will pray for you.

I don't need the black robes to see it.

You do if you are going to charge someone who had a legal abortion with murder.

 

[Catsnmeters]

They have laws that charge people with manslaughter that kill unborn children.

Why?

State Homicide Laws That Recognize Unborn Victims - National Right to Life

National Right to Life Committee April 2, 2018 What appears below is a summary of the laws of the 38 states that recognize the unlawful killing of an unborn child as homicide in at least some circumstances. The federal Unborn Victims of Violence Act, enacted April 1, 2004, covers unborn victims...

www.nrlc.org

It is because it is assumed the children are wanted.

I reckon once they are not wanted, it no longer matters.

Because it is a woman's decision to abort a pregnancy. That does not give someone else permission to kill a fetus without the woman's consent.

 

[Votto]

Because it is a woman's decision to abort a pregnancy. That does not give someone else permission to kill a fetus without the woman's consent.

But if it is not a human being, how can it be manslaughter?

That would be like saying someone damaged her kidney and the kidney died and they charged the person with manslaughter for killing her kidney.

Insanity.

 

[Votto]

We are discussing American law, of course that is what I'm talking about.



I recognize your false deities view on abortion manifests itself as punishment for unfaithful women but the one true God is ok with abortion even if not a punishment. Please don't infringe upon my religious rights.

I will pray for you.


You do if you are going to charge someone who had a legal abortion with murder.

You do realize that the Founders recognized that natural law comes from God and not man, right?

Do you think they worshiped false Deities as well?

 

[JoeB131]

The American people mostly want that nose in there. Propose a 10-15 week ban on birth control abortions with reasonable exceptions and most people would support it.

Until they realize what you people are up to.

Let's be honest. Your side stepped in a big pile of shit with Dobbs, and now you don't want to drag it all over the house. If the referendums in Kansas and Ohio (red states!) are any indication, you guys are going to take a beating on this one.

 

[Catsnmeters]

But if it is not a human being, how can it be manslaughter?

When did I say it wasn't a human being?

That would be like saying someone damaged her kidney and the kidney died and they charged the person with manslaughter for killing her kidney.

Insanity.

A kidney isn't a human being. Manslaughter is not the same as murder. Manslaughter does not require intent.

 

[Catsnmeters]

You do realize that the Founders recognized that natural law comes from God and not man, right?

What does that mean?

Does that mean any laws affirmed by the constitution can be dismissed if they run contrary to whatever your false religion decrees?

What about people who worship the one true God? Can they do whatever we do whatever we want within the scope of our religious practices?

Do you think they worshiped false Deities as well?

If they worshipped the god from the man written Bible then yes, they worshipped a false god.

I pray you seek the one true God. It is a difficult journey but well worth it. Good luck!