Big Business Got Greedy

[dilloduck]

hell, they are more likely to vote for Obama.

only until the wind starts blowing in another direction. Since many in the money cartels aren't even Americans they can't vote. ( They just buy "stock" in Obama. )

 

[Skull Pilot]

Remember Reagan broke the air traffic controllers union? And before Reagan, we had 2 million illegals and now we have 12. Yes, Reagan started this. Reagan and his montra of less government. Reagan said the government wasn't the solution, it was the problem. Well if you don't believe in government, then you shouldn't govern.

Yea, we know you don't think Obama will fix anything. That's why you voted the way you did. Of course you are a skeptic. We all know that. Just watch.

Yeah I'll watch but I won't just watch. I will actively work against any and all of BHOs proposed tax raises and spending increases

Now please explain what you mean by this, "higher punitive and confiscatory taxes in the name of fairness.".

Self explanatory. But let's see, increased capital gains taxes increased income taxes, increased social security taxes, new carbon taxes, taxes designed to "bankrupt" certain industries.

Of course the government spends too much. We spend more than the rest of the world on defense COMBINED!

But what I think you mean are social services. You want to gut the government of all the good it does because you don't approve of giving to poor inner cities, for example. But you defend the excessive defense spending, correct?

Get our military out of the rest of the world and put them on our borders while supplying our troops with the best most advanced weapons in the world. Update and modernize our nuclear stockpile and make our country impervious to attack.

And you're right, if that kind of defense costs more than what other countries spend so be it. I don't care.

Since I know that our government is going to spend one way or the other, then I say I want my taxes to go to poor people and to fix America's infrastructure. Where as you want to feed the military industrial machine.

The government wastes more in a year than it would take to fix a dozen roads. Don't ask me for a dime more until all that waste is gone.

So I think you are making an argument against raising the top 1%'s taxes. Sure, if the government can find a way to stop spending a lot of money, then fine, cut the rich people's taxes. But until that day comes, America works best when you take the burden off of the middle class. That includes slapping what we spend onto the debt.

Don't be so naive. taxes will not be raised only on the top 1%. Taxes will be raised on businesses and will be passed on to you. States will raise property and sales taxes which you will pay

And the rich will get along fine even if we take away their unfair tax breaks. We'll give them incentives/tax breaks when they hire people. Not just give them the break and keep our fingers crossed.

You still seem to think that someone who achieved success did it by taking it from someone else and the successful person is somehow guilty while the unsuccessful are somehow innocent victims.

I find it sad you think so little of people. Did you ever stop to consider that people are where they are because that's where they want to be?

Because isn't that what the bankers are doing? We gave them $350 billion and they aren't doing what they said they would do with the money.

So don't talk free markets when the banks need $750 billion of our tax dollars. That's not free.

We shouldn't have given them anything. And this is not a free market argument. It's a who's more evil, business or government.

I say government.

 

[sealybobo]

Who have no party affiliation I might add !!!

The corporations that are sending jobs overseas are GOP.

The people who like illegals coming here and lowering wages are typically GOP.

The Defense companies like Haloburton and Blackwater that raped the treasury are gop.

Tom Delay got into politics because of regulations that were imposed on his company.

He spent three years working for Redwood Chemical. This work was the source for his nickname "the Exterminator". In the 11 years DeLay ran the company, the IRS imposed tax liens on him three times for not paying payroll and income taxes.[2] The United States Environmental Protection Agency's ban on a certain pesticide that was used in extermination work led DeLay to oppose government regulation of businesses, a belief that he has carried with him throughout his political career.[3]

Allowing corporations to pollute so they can save a buck is a GOP thing.

 

[sealybobo]

only until the wind starts blowing in another direction. Since many in the money cartels aren't even Americans they can't vote. ( They just buy "stock" in Obama. )

Why did you guys ignore/deny/defend Bush and the GOP the 6-8 years they were in power and this shit was happening?

And now we're supposed to listen to you when you say Obama will be no better?

You've been wrong about everything else. Let's hope you are wrong about this too.

 

[catzmeow]

The corporations that are sending jobs overseas are GOP.

The people who like illegals coming here and lowering wages are typically GOP.

The Defense companies like Haloburton and Blackwater that raped the treasury are gop.

Allowing corporations to pollute so they can save a buck is a GOP thing.

Hardy har har. This is a greed thing, and the only color that matters in that world is green.

 

[dilloduck]

The corporations that are sending jobs overseas are GOP.

The people who like illegals coming here and lowering wages are typically GOP.

The Defense companies like Haloburton and Blackwater that raped the treasury are gop.

Tom Delay got into politics because of regulations that were imposed on his company.

He spent three years working for Redwood Chemical. This work was the source for his nickname "the Exterminator". In the 11 years DeLay ran the company, the IRS imposed tax liens on him three times for not paying payroll and income taxes.[2] The United States Environmental Protection Agency's ban on a certain pesticide that was used in extermination work led DeLay to oppose government regulation of businesses, a belief that he has carried with him throughout his political career.[3]

Allowing corporations to pollute so they can save a buck is a GOP thing.

Money Cartels----not corporations----think bigger, dude !!

 

[sealybobo]

.

1. You guys said Clinton would ruin the economy the same way you say BHO will. HA!

2. If that is how Bush spent with military spending, I'd be all for it, but it isn't, and you know it, so 8 years later we are no safer. You like defense spending and you ignore the fraud/theft that has gone on thru military spending. See, you don't care that they ripped you off, as long as it was in the name of defense.

3. I'm done being scared that corporations will pass the costs on to us. I know that under Bushanomics, the burden has fallen on us, so you are wrong. Your economics are flawed because the system was corrupted. They used supply and demand to lower our wages. Must not have happened to your job yet.

4. Here we go with the liberals hate people that work hard and achieve. And you talk about being naive? You are a house slave. You keep arguing for the super rich when we have class warefare going on. Tons of millionaires who only made a million a year thought they were republicans too. Now they yearn for the Clinton years. YEARN!!!!

5. You arrogant bastard. All of us are where we are because we want to be here? You arrogant fuck! Clearly you make $100k and so you can be such an arrogant fucker.

6. Corporate America is more corrupt than Government. Example. Corporate America would never ever in a million years raise minimum wage. But Government will. That's because the Democrats work for We the People.

And in every situation we see the GOP argues for the Corporations and the Rich and the Democrats argue for the middle class. Sure the Dems aren't perfect, but the GOP is in on it with the Corporations.

So now you can shift your argument back to "the democrats are just as bad", which is utter bullshit. If it isn't obvious to you by now, it will NEVER BE!

All my Republican friends understand what's going on now. Almost no one is clinging on to the crap you are still clinging to. To me, what you are saying now is just a joke.

Yes, raise the taxes on all the rich. If they don't like it, they can go to another country. And if they do, Obama will give business loans to younger people who are willing to take their place. They'll stay in America, hire Americans and pay American wages!!!

 

[sealybobo]

Hardy har har. This is a greed thing, and the only color that matters in that world is green.

That's right baby! Rich vs. Poor.

If corporations are allowed/encouraged, yes they will go overseas and work with people who only ask for $3 a day.

It doesn't have to be that way.

Eventually, they'll make it so you are only worth $3 a day.

You are defending the people/corporations/politicians who are working hard to lower your worth. Corporate profits are not more important than the American middle class. It's what makes America great. Do you think profits are more important than your standard of living? What do you do?

 

[sealybobo]

Money Cartels----not corporations----think bigger, dude !!

And for awhile I thought oil was fucking the Big 3 but now I think the big three want out of Michigan and out of the unions too, so they are purposely bankrupting themselves.

Now if they can get $25 billion and prolong failure for a few more years, they'll go that route too. That's why I'm glad we're asking them for a business plan. I don't want to reward the Big 3 CEO's, but I do want to save auto manufacturing.

But the oil and car companies were in collusion with each other on CAFE standards. We could get 65 miles per gallon but then people would buy less gas and then they wouldn't buy the gas guzzling SUV's.

But even if the Big 3 succeed, they've already lowered wages. New people do not have the same benefits that the old timers do. And the Big 3 have cut pensions for retired salary and they keep charging retiree's more and more for their healthcare, etc.

And you are right, it's probably much bigger than I know/think. I do not suggest I know what the hell is going on. I can only tell you what it looks like to me, from where I sit.

But the days of asking us to make less when the CEO makes $20 million a year has got to be over. Unfortunately, it is not.

The only way to increase wages is for supply and demand/the economy to get better. Step one is get rid of the illegals.

I have a neighbor who lays brick. 3 whites, the rest mexicans. No insurance, $14 hr., no benefits. If the union gets sent home because of rain, they get paid. If my buddy gets sent home, he does not get paid. Get rid of the illegals doing that work! We used to do that work before they were allowed in!! And if companies can't find enough good help, they'll pay more. Yes it will cost the consumer more, but that's the breaks here in the good old USA!!! We don't have a slave labor class here, nor should we.

His company is an outsourced labor company that the union company subcontracts. The company itself charges the same as a union employee would make, only no healthcare. So my buddy makes $14, the company he works for gets $8 hr. for his work, and the main company doesn't pay healthcare to the outsourced company. In the end, the employees suffer. Unacceptable.

 

[sealybobo]

Hardy har har. This is a greed thing, and the only color that matters in that world is green.

I told people that before the election. It's not about black white, jew muslim, gay straight, woman man, it's rich v poor.

 

[dilloduck]

And for awhile I thought oil was fucking the Big 3 but now I think the big three want out of Michigan and out of the unions too, so they are purposely bankrupting themselves.

Now if they can get $25 billion and prolong failure for a few more years, they'll go that route too. That's why I'm glad we're asking them for a business plan. I don't want to reward the Big 3 CEO's, but I do want to save auto manufacturing.

But the oil and car companies were in collusion with each other on CAFE standards. We could get 65 miles per gallon but then people would buy less gas and then they wouldn't buy the gas guzzling SUV's.

But even if the Big 3 succeed, they've already lowered wages. New people do not have the same benefits that the old timers do. And the Big 3 have cut pensions for retired salary and they keep charging retiree's more and more for their healthcare, etc.

And you are right, it's probably much bigger than I know/think. I do not suggest I know what the hell is going on. I can only tell you what it looks like to me, from where I sit.

But the days of asking us to make less when the CEO makes $20 million a year has got to be over. Unfortunately, it is not.

The only way to increase wages is for supply and demand/the economy to get better. Step one is get rid of the illegals.

I have a neighbor who lays brick. 3 whites, the rest mexicans. No insurance, $14 hr., no benefits. If the union gets sent home because of rain, they get paid. If my buddy gets sent home, he does not get paid. Get rid of the illegals doing that work! We used to do that work before they were allowed in!! And if companies can't find enough good help, they'll pay more. Yes it will cost the consumer more, but that's the breaks here in the good old USA!!! We don't have a slave labor class here, nor should we.

His company is an outsourced labor company that the union company subcontracts. The company itself charges the same as a union employee would make, only no healthcare. So my buddy makes $14, the company he works for gets $8 hr. for his work, and the main company doesn't pay healthcare to the outsourced company. In the end, the employees suffer. Unacceptable.

Bankers--financial policy makers--lending institutions--- Federal reserves---cmon think big and think global.

 

[Skull Pilot]

1.
5. You arrogant bastard. All of us are where we are because we want to be here? You arrogant fuck! Clearly you make $100k and so you can be such an arrogant fucker.

What's the matter boo boo did I hit a nerve?

You don't want to take the credit for where you are in your life?

It's someone else's, some "rich" person's fault not yours right?

And yes I do make over 100K but I will bet I risked more than you and worked longer and harder than you to get it. But you think that if I want to keep what I earn because I risked every dime I had to open a business I am somehow arrogant?

How about you? You lazy fuck wanting to take money other people earned so you can feel better about yourself and your government because you didn't have the stones to risk it all on your own?

So yes asshole you are exactly where YOU want to be and it's no ones fault but your own if you don't like it.

 

[sealybobo]

Bankers--financial policy makers--lending institutions--- Federal reserves---cmon think big and think global.

Oh you don't have to convince me. I saw Freedom to Fascism.

On one of my talk radio shows, they were floating the idea that maybe we/the government, could buy back the Federal Reserves from the bankers that own it now. We should have never turned our finances over to them in the first place. Damn corrupt government of 1913!!

They have way to much power in our lives.

And socialize oil/energy/healthcare.

Oil companies should charge as much as they can on the world market but here at home, we should not pay $4 a gallon. And the oil men for years have put a cabosh on alternative fuels.

A Texas inventor who demonstrated a water-fueled car to reporters over the weekend has been found dead on a highway.

A severed head belonging to Douglas Chadbury, a 47-year-old professional mechanic and part-time inventor, was found along a stretch of highway in Texas yesterday. Chadbury made news locally after driving around in a car that could run on ordinary tap water.

Man who invented water-powered car found dead « Sir Satire’s New World Order News Service


And they should not be gouging us to heat our homes either. That should be government run. You allow corporations to run our electricity/energy and you see what they did every winter the last few years.

Healthcare too. It only makes sense. If we are all in the pool together, then we should get a great rate. And then it won't break us when someone gets cancer. Spread the risk. This is what insurance is all about. And then the pharma's won't gouge us either. I don't have all the answers, but basically, we have universal healthcare right now, and we are all paying for it. It's called Emergency room's can't turn anyone away. And this is costing us tax payers regardless, so might as well fix the system because it too got out of control.

 

[catzmeow]

You are defending the people/corporations/politicians who are working hard to lower your worth. Corporate profits are not more important than the American middle class. It's what makes America great. Do you think profits are more important than your standard of living? What do you do?

Where have I defended these corporate bandits? Show me the post. I've attacked these bastards for years. I like business people, especially small businesses, but I despise most multinational corporations for the soul-sucking leeches that they are.

But, trust me when i say that corporate greed transcends politics. The Dems pander to them just as much as the Reps do, they just cloak their pandering in populist rhetoric.

 

[Bern80]

5. You arrogant bastard. All of us are where we are because we want to be here? You arrogant fuck! Clearly you make $100k and so you can be such an arrogant fucker.

Sorry to pick on this one as well but it's one of those nerve touching issues. I DON'T make 100k a year or anywhere even close to that. The notion that you are (or aren't) responsible for you position in life is not that radical and not a right or left issue. It's a human nature issue. People tend to give themselves credit for their successes and blame others for their failures.

I really encourage to take step back and think about this in a different manner. This have and have not thing is not rich vs. poor thing or a right vs. left thing. It is predominantly a result of human behavior and a change in our cultural atitude.

 

[catzmeow]

The notion that you are (or aren't) responsible for you position in life is not that radical and not a right or left issue. It's a human nature issue. People tend to give themselves credit for their successes and blame others for their failures.

I really encourage to take step back and think about this in a different manner. This have and have not thing is not rich vs. poor thing or a right vs. left thing. It is predominantly a result of human behavior and a change in our cultural atitude.

We don't all start out in the same place, dude. I started out in a 3,000 sq ft. home on a farm, in an area with no crime, with two parents who taught me to work hard and save my money, and a dad who did very well working very hard in a small business that he started and ran for more than 30 years.

I was given the opportunity to attend good schools all my life, to eat good food, to have a stable home life, to have good medical care, and to go to college.

My hand of cards was stacked.

And, I've spent the last almost 20 years working with poor inner city kids who grow up with a dad in prison, mom addicted to crack, in shitty schools, in filthy homes where meals are hit/miss and gnereally unhealthy, living in a crime-infested neighborhood where it is dangerous to go outside after dark. Kids who've never been to the dentist in their life, who will never be given a hand in paying for college tuition. In the card game of life, these kids got nothing in their hand.

I agree, a lot of success in life is due to hard work, personal motivation, being thrifty, all of that.

But, we don't all start out with the same hand in the card game of life. To pretend otherwise is simply self-deception.

If the playing field in the U.S. were flat and equitable, then we could all make these claims. And yeah, I've seen plenty of people throw away their lives through making bad choices. But don't ever kid yourself and think that life is fair, because it sure as hell isn't.

 

[sealybobo]

What's the matter boo boo did I hit a nerve?

You don't want to take the credit for where you are in your life?

It's someone else's, some "rich" person's fault not yours right?

And yes I do make over 100K but I will bet I risked more than you and worked longer and harder than you to get it. But you think that if I want to keep what I earn because I risked every dime I had to open a business I am somehow arrogant?

How about you? You lazy fuck wanting to take money other people earned so you can feel better about yourself and your government because you didn't have the stones to risk it all on your own?

So yes asshole you are exactly where YOU want to be and it's no ones fault but your own if you don't like it.

It's my fault sales are down? I'm in sales. I used to make $85k, now I make $75k. I have friends like you. Right place at the right time. LUCKY. And anyone new into their industry does not make what they make. If you lose your job, know this. Know you will not make as much in your next job. FACT. No matter what you do. So everyone's at fault.

And I tried starting a new business, then 9-11 happened. And I worked for a lazy owner.

Yes you did strike a nerve, because all the companies that bought last year are not buying this year.

The idea that I made a mistake choosing to get into corporate sales? I see the top 3 salespeople making over $200K and the rest of us are all making a little less than we were before. We're not starving, but we aren't making as much.

And neither are you, because your home value went down, your 401K took a dumb, and the cost of living went up. When you think of all the money you spent on $4 a gallon, how much of GW's tax break do you really think you kept? LOL.

And again Skull, if you are making over $100k, then you can't really relate to the rest of us, now can you?

I can relate to the people making $50k though, because when you start over in a new company, which I did 5 years ago, you start off making $30k salary with zero commission until you start selling. And by the way, before the GOP sent all the jobs overseas and brought in all the illegals, companies were paying $40K plus. That's a $10K cut right there.

And my buddies making over $100k? those are auto supplier jobs. If the Big 3 go under, it'll be their fault that they only find jobs making $50k? Really?

You honestly think if you lost your job that you would find one just as good? HA! That's what I mean about you being an arrogant ignorant bastard.

And if you can, you are the exception.

I worry every day/month about losing my job. Sales are getting TIGHT!!! I guess that's my fault too.

So I guess you don't see what's going on because it hasn't happened to you yet.

And I guess if my brother, who makes $400k, I guess if his company (which by the way already went chapter 11), but I guess if they fail again and he loses his VP job, I guess that was his fault too?

Or if he can only find a job that pays $100K because the market is FLOODED with guys who used to be VP's, then that'll be his fault too?

I hate to wish anything bad on anyone but man are you asking for it.

And again, I'm making about $75K and my condo is almost paid off, so I'm not hurting. At least not as bad as I see others hurting. So please don't suggest that I'm just a whiner.

All your sad/tired arguments are so old. It's bullshit.

Now you should tell the bankers that it's all their fault and it's all in their head. And the only way to get out of this is for them to go out and SPEND SPEND SPEND!!! Isn't that what the GOP told us in 2007?

PS. I just told a guy what we are discussing and in the end he said, "the unions got too corrupt and it's all about profits", and I said, "we're not in a union and still our jobs are going to india and our wages are being lowered"

So I hope you see that they just started with the unions. It was easy because they were corrupt and most of us are not in unions. Now that they have broken the unions, YOU'RE NEXT!!

Not you Skull, because you have some magical specialty that can't be outsourced. And, you work hard even though you suggest Americans don't work hard. I'd be willing to bet a Chinaman, Indian or Mexican would do it for less and work harder than you.

 

[sealybobo]

Sorry to pick on this one as well but it's one of those nerve touching issues. I DON'T make 100k a year or anywhere even close to that. The notion that you are (or aren't) responsible for you position in life is not that radical and not a right or left issue. It's a human nature issue. People tend to give themselves credit for their successes and blame others for their failures.

I really encourage to take step back and think about this in a different manner. This have and have not thing is not rich vs. poor thing or a right vs. left thing. It is predominantly a result of human behavior and a change in our cultural atitude.

IF you made $75k a year or better, I would encourage you to quit your job and go try to find a job that pays the same or better. Get back to me with your results. And read my previous post.

I have explained over and over how the GOP allowed illegals to flood our country, they allowed companies to get away with hiring them, and they have sent all our manufacturing overseas. Now there are more people than there are jobs. That's supply and demand baby!!! That's how they have lowered your worth.

All in the name of PROFITS!!!! In corporate Americas eyes, why pay you $10 hr when they can get it for $3 hr. overseas?

This has affected people who made $1 millon dollars a year and this is certainly affecting you. How much do you make and what do you do?

 

[sealybobo]

We don't all start out in the same place, dude. I started out in a 3,000 sq ft. home on a farm, in an area with no crime, with two parents who taught me to work hard and save my money, and a dad who did very well working very hard in a small business that he started and ran for more than 30 years.

I was given the opportunity to attend good schools all my life, to eat good food, to have a stable home life, to have good medical care, and to go to college.

My hand of cards was stacked.

And, I've spent the last almost 20 years working with poor inner city kids who grow up with a dad in prison, mom addicted to crack, in shitty schools, in filthy homes where meals are hit/miss and gnereally unhealthy, living in a crime-infested neighborhood where it is dangerous to go outside after dark. Kids who've never been to the dentist in their life, who will never be given a hand in paying for college tuition. In the card game of life, these kids got nothing in their hand.

I agree, a lot of success in life is due to hard work, personal motivation, being thrifty, all of that.

But, we don't all start out with the same hand in the card game of life. To pretend otherwise is simply self-deception.

If the playing field in the U.S. were flat and equitable, then we could all make these claims. And yeah, I've seen plenty of people throw away their lives through making bad choices. But don't ever kid yourself and think that life is fair, because it sure as hell isn't.

And people who did everything they were supposed to do are getting fucked. My cop friend is a great example. He'll for sure get his pension and he will for sure never be laid off. Sure his 401k took a dump and his home is worth less, but he'll get by. So he happens to have a job that allows him to be cocky, and a conservative, and judgemental.

And if it were just people who didn't go to college that were getting fucked, I might be more inclined to agree with these arrogant bastards. But it's not. It's EVERYONE!

And we are practically in a great depression. How are you going to blame people for failing when it's a great depression? And who do you blame for the great depression? And who's fault is it when Tyson Chicken hires illegals and lays off American workers? Is it that workers fault? Even though it's happening all across America?

Even if they all went out and got college degrees, that would still lower our wages. That was actually the plan. So now I'm competing with people who used to work in factories. There are no more factory jobs so those people went out and got degrees. Now there are more of us white collar people than there are white collar jobs. And that too lowers wages.

What is going too far? If a corporation wants to sell products in America but they don't want to pay Americans to make that product, so they send those jobs overseas because that's how they can make more profits, then that's going too far. At least giving them tax breaks is going too far. And if that country isn't taking any of our exports, that too is going too far. And then if we find out that the ceo of that company paid himself $20 million, that's going even farther.

 

[Bern80]

We don't all start out in the same place, dude. I started out in a 3,000 sq ft. home on a farm, in an area with no crime, with two parents who taught me to work hard and save my money, and a dad who did very well working very hard in a small business that he started and ran for more than 30 years.

I was given the opportunity to attend good schools all my life, to eat good food, to have a stable home life, to have good medical care, and to go to college.

My hand of cards was stacked.

And, I've spent the last almost 20 years working with poor inner city kids who grow up with a dad in prison, mom addicted to crack, in shitty schools, in filthy homes where meals are hit/miss and gnereally unhealthy, living in a crime-infested neighborhood where it is dangerous to go outside after dark. Kids who've never been to the dentist in their life, who will never be given a hand in paying for college tuition. In the card game of life, these kids got nothing in their hand.

I agree, a lot of success in life is due to hard work, personal motivation, being thrifty, all of that.

But, we don't all start out with the same hand in the card game of life. To pretend otherwise is simply self-deception.

If the playing field in the U.S. were flat and equitable, then we could all make these claims. And yeah, I've seen plenty of people throw away their lives through making bad choices. But don't ever kid yourself and think that life is fair, because it sure as hell isn't.

I agree totally, the best way to summarize is that you have no control really over how you're life starts, the end(s) however is up to you.

people talk about the benefits of good schools or working for daddy's company. those benefits are reaped (or not) based your choices. You may have the opportunity to go to Harvard, your grades are up to you.