Big Bain Backfire

[SniperFire]

I never lied.

You lie about never lying.

You said:

After the sale, everything that says GS is Bain...as they owned the company at that point.

Which was an absurd lie, as Bain had continuing responsibility for the pension plans in question.

You are a troll, but then again, you know that.

Go get the quote and put it to rest.... you two are wasting time otherwise.

Actually, I am done with that asshole. For now.

 

[Vidi]

I never lied.

You lie about never lying.

You said:

After the sale, everything that says GS is Bain...as they owned the company at that point.

Which was an absurd lie, as Bain had continuing responsibility for the pension plans in question.

You are a troll, but then again, you know that.

Go get the quote and put it to rest.... you two are wasting time otherwise.

post 371, Infidel

 

[Vidi]

You lie about never lying.

You said:

After the sale, everything that says GS is Bain...as they owned the company at that point.

Which was an absurd lie, as Bain had continuing responsibility for the pension plans in question.

You are a troll, but then again, you know that.

Go get the quote and put it to rest.... you two are wasting time otherwise.

Actually, I am done with that asshole. For now.

Translation: You lost and have nothing more to be smacked down on. Im out Ive got to drive 30 minutes away to deliver parts then head home for the night.

 

[The Infidel]

Im out Ive got to drive 30 minutes away to deliver parts then head home for the night.

Have a safe drive.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course, the company wasn't headed to bankruptcy until Bain got there

'he Kansas City plant was itself dying. At its 1970 height it employed 4,500; by the late 1980s it was down to 1,000. A year before acquisition, Armco had laid off another 75. Its equipment was old; it faced fierce competition at home and abroad.

B.C. Huselton, a vice president of the business at the time, tells me that in 1990 the Armco CEO held a meeting. "He told us, 'Look, we either try to sell it, or we've got to shut it down.'" Armco had shut down another Kansas City facility, Union Wire Rope, only a few years before.'

Strassel: Vampire Capitalism? Please - WSJ.com

Guy, still ignoring you if you are going to site Rupurt Murdoch's Faux News as a source.

It took Bain 12 years to suck the life out of GS Steel.... after loading it up with debt. Just because the previous owner is trying to justify his selling out his people is not particularly compelling.

Bain is a Corporate Welfare Queen of the first order.

 

[JoeB131]

Vidi, great job slapping down Snipey...

 

[Toro]

see now I dont see it that way. I see tax cuts for small business. I see more regulation to protect workers.

But Im of the opinion that a strong Middle class with a disposable income is the biggest job creator. Some may disagree and as long as theyre civil about it, I can respect that. But with Romney I see someone who is going to sell out the middle class to corporate America through tax loopholes and subsidies. In my opinion, thats socialism.

There is a lot of empirical evidence that cutting corporate taxes increases economic wealth and job creation so I don't have a problem with corporations having their income taxes cut. I don't see it as an adversarial relationship between corporate America and the middle class. I see corporations as the drivers of wealth creation and thus jobs.

I do not like special subsidies and tax loopholes for some businesses and not others, but unfortunately, jurisdictions do this all the time. Obama wants to cut taxes for manufacturers. Why? Why just manufacturing? Why not software companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc.? Why is subsidizing one type of business and not others OK and subsidizing other types of businesses, i.e. your example below, not OK? What is the difference? Why would you hold Romney and the Republicans to one standard and Obama and the Democrats to another?

I supported Obama in 08 and Democrats in general through most of the last decade, and after watching this President and the Democrats the past 3.5 years, I have been deeply disappointed in their incompetence in handling the economy. I don't think Obama understands how the economy works. And if you don't know how the economy works, how can you know how jobs are created?

Finally, disposable income doesn't come from nowhere. I often here that "demand drives the economy." That's true, but demand for what? The products that people demand come virtually entirely through innovation, whether that is the food you eat, the clothes you wear, the car you drive or the handheld you surf the Internet on. The innovations that become products are created primarily through corporations, which can mobilize capital and organization to develop, create and bring a product to market. Government certainly plays a role in that, but it is corporations that are the primary drivers of both innovation and product commercialization in the economy. Without corporations, people would have much less to demand.

As far as the "successes" of Bain, one success everyone likes to point out is Steel Dynamics. What they utterly fail to mention is Bain's equity contribution was less than 5% of the total $370 million initial financing.
OpEdNews - Article: In Romney's "Dream," He Takes Undeserved Credit For Steel Dynamics

Additonally, the "success" of SDI was built on the backs of the taxpayers as well.




So once again, even his success stories show us that he is all about big government spending for the cause of big business.

( btw thats why its right to ask these businesses to pay more in taxes. They get the most money back. Its simply a return on investment. )

Steel Dynamics is used as an example to juxtapose the so-called "Vampire Capitalism" of GST. You also have to understand the context. Steel is one of the most heavily subsidized industries in the United States. It has received special tax breaks, the government has broken international trade agreements to slap quotas on steel imports to benefit the US steel industry, it has benefited from government-imposed Buy American policies, etc. Steel is a highly politicized industry. Bain was no different than every other steel company owner around. You judge Bain's performance relative to other steel companies.

But again, you are isolating one single instance. Bain has invested in hundreds of companies that were successful across all different industries. This is a highly successful company that has grown many, many different companies. These guys understand what corporations need to do to innovate and create jobs. The current President does not. I'd rather go with the guy who has done it rather than the guy who was given the chance and shown himself to be clueless.

Youre forgetting I brought up Dade and Ampad as well. I am talking about GST solely because thats what the subject is in this thread. Also the specifics of that deal, being a controversy have been more widely publicized. The specifics of other Bain deals are not widely known so it would be impossible for me to comment on them with any acceptable accuracy.

Unlike some on this board ( and I dont mean you ) I dont just pull stuff out of my ass and then harp on a fabrication for 30 pages. I only offer comments and opinions on things I can research. otherise, I just ask questions.

Those are the deals being publicized, of course, because the political opponents of Romney are using them as a political bludgeon. The MO of political operatives is to isolate the negatives and hammer them relentlessly, regardless of anything else. A quarter of Bain's investments failed, so there is going to be rich ground to find something - anything - that can be spun negatively.

But again, go back to the autos. If you are applying consistent standards, the autos went bankrupt, people were fired, compensation was slashed, plants were closed, taxpayers fronted the money, etc. How is that different?

 

[JoeB131]

Those are the deals being publicized, of course, because the political opponents of Romney are using them as a political bludgeon. The MO of political operatives is to isolate the negatives and hammer them relentlessly, regardless of anything else. A quarter of Bain's investments failed, so there is going to be rich ground to find something - anything - that can be spun negatively.

But again, go back to the autos. If you are applying consistent standards, the autos went bankrupt, people were fired, compensation was slashed, plants were closed, taxpayers fronted the money, etc. How is that different?

Very simple.

Obama didn't personally benefit from the car bailout. Quite the contrary, he took quite a lot of heat for doing it.

As far as using them as a "bludgeon" (wow, hitting Romney with a blunt object, what an appealling idea!) Romney himself is the one who is saying, "Hey, look at what I did at Bain. This is why I'm qualified to be president even though it s nothing like being an investment banker. Totally ignore my more recent and relevent experience as a governor, because I don't even want to talk about that."

Which means, okay, let's look at Bain. Let's look at how working folks got screwed at AmPad and Dade and GS Steel while Romney and his cronies made out like bandits, let's look at the really awful decisions they made and how other people were left holding the bag. And then ask, do we really want to do this on the national level.

I say... Nope.

 

[Dick Tuck]

There is a lot of empirical evidence that cutting corporate taxes increases economic wealth and job creation so I don't have a problem with corporations having their income taxes cut. I don't see it as an adversarial relationship between corporate America and the middle class. I see corporations as the drivers of wealth creation and thus jobs.

I do not like special subsidies and tax loopholes for some businesses and not others, but unfortunately, jurisdictions do this all the time. Obama wants to cut taxes for manufacturers. Why? Why just manufacturing? Why not software companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc.? Why is subsidizing one type of business and not others OK and subsidizing other types of businesses, i.e. your example below, not OK? What is the difference? Why would you hold Romney and the Republicans to one standard and Obama and the Democrats to another?

I supported Obama in 08 and Democrats in general through most of the last decade, and after watching this President and the Democrats the past 3.5 years, I have been deeply disappointed in their incompetence in handling the economy. I don't think Obama understands how the economy works. And if you don't know how the economy works, how can you know how jobs are created?

Finally, disposable income doesn't come from nowhere. I often here that "demand drives the economy." That's true, but demand for what? The products that people demand come virtually entirely through innovation, whether that is the food you eat, the clothes you wear, the car you drive or the handheld you surf the Internet on. The innovations that become products are created primarily through corporations, which can mobilize capital and organization to develop, create and bring a product to market. Government certainly plays a role in that, but it is corporations that are the primary drivers of both innovation and product commercialization in the economy. Without corporations, people would have much less to demand.


Steel Dynamics is used as an example to juxtapose the so-called "Vampire Capitalism" of GST. You also have to understand the context. Steel is one of the most heavily subsidized industries in the United States. It has received special tax breaks, the government has broken international trade agreements to slap quotas on steel imports to benefit the US steel industry, it has benefited from government-imposed Buy American policies, etc. Steel is a highly politicized industry. Bain was no different than every other steel company owner around. You judge Bain's performance relative to other steel companies.

But again, you are isolating one single instance. Bain has invested in hundreds of companies that were successful across all different industries. This is a highly successful company that has grown many, many different companies. These guys understand what corporations need to do to innovate and create jobs. The current President does not. I'd rather go with the guy who has done it rather than the guy who was given the chance and shown himself to be clueless.

Youre forgetting I brought up Dade and Ampad as well. I am talking about GST solely because thats what the subject is in this thread. Also the specifics of that deal, being a controversy have been more widely publicized. The specifics of other Bain deals are not widely known so it would be impossible for me to comment on them with any acceptable accuracy.

Unlike some on this board ( and I dont mean you ) I dont just pull stuff out of my ass and then harp on a fabrication for 30 pages. I only offer comments and opinions on things I can research. otherise, I just ask questions.

Those are the deals being publicized, of course, because the political opponents of Romney are using them as a political bludgeon. The MO of political operatives is to isolate the negatives and hammer them relentlessly, regardless of anything else. A quarter of Bain's investments failed, so there is going to be rich ground to find something - anything - that can be spun negatively.

But again, go back to the autos. If you are applying consistent standards, the autos went bankrupt, people were fired, compensation was slashed, plants were closed, taxpayers fronted the money, etc. How is that different?

The auto companies came back stronger than ever.

 

[naturegirl]

Well, it's kinda like follow the leader, huh?? Obama is totally ignoring his most recent and relevant experience as POTUS.

Romney is just getting started, wait til after the convention.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, it's kinda like follow the leader, huh?? Obama is totally ignoring his most recent and relevant experience as POTUS.

Romney is just getting started, wait til after the convention.

Ummm, why do we need to wait after the convention?

The man's been running for President for six years now, we should have a pretty good idea what he's about..

 

[naturegirl]

Well, it's kinda like follow the leader, huh?? Obama is totally ignoring his most recent and relevant experience as POTUS.

Romney is just getting started, wait til after the convention.

Ummm, why do we need to wait after the convention?

The man's been running for President for six years now, we should have a pretty good idea what he's about..

His campaign is just beginning, he hasn't even officially received the nomination yet. He's a smart man, the left is now trying to paint him as being too conservative, after the "vulture" ploy went awry. He's watching closely, he's laughing at the blow backs. Wonder what's next after the horrible story on his wife's love for horses.

After the convention, he will be all in. It's definitely going to be an interesting political season.

 

[Toro]

Youre forgetting I brought up Dade and Ampad as well. I am talking about GST solely because thats what the subject is in this thread. Also the specifics of that deal, being a controversy have been more widely publicized. The specifics of other Bain deals are not widely known so it would be impossible for me to comment on them with any acceptable accuracy.

Unlike some on this board ( and I dont mean you ) I dont just pull stuff out of my ass and then harp on a fabrication for 30 pages. I only offer comments and opinions on things I can research. otherise, I just ask questions.

Those are the deals being publicized, of course, because the political opponents of Romney are using them as a political bludgeon. The MO of political operatives is to isolate the negatives and hammer them relentlessly, regardless of anything else. A quarter of Bain's investments failed, so there is going to be rich ground to find something - anything - that can be spun negatively.

But again, go back to the autos. If you are applying consistent standards, the autos went bankrupt, people were fired, compensation was slashed, plants were closed, taxpayers fronted the money, etc. How is that different?

The auto companies came back stronger than ever.

Sure. But the auto companies did the exact same thing Bain does to it's companies. The only difference is that GST didn't make it. And you know that the guy who oversaw the auto bailout - Steve Rattner - was a private equity guy like Mitt Romney, who performed the same techniques on Quadrangle's companies as Bain did to theirs, right? Rattner walked the auto companies through bankruptcy in the same manner as any other private equity manager does.

 

[JoeB131]

Those are the deals being publicized, of course, because the political opponents of Romney are using them as a political bludgeon. The MO of political operatives is to isolate the negatives and hammer them relentlessly, regardless of anything else. A quarter of Bain's investments failed, so there is going to be rich ground to find something - anything - that can be spun negatively.

But again, go back to the autos. If you are applying consistent standards, the autos went bankrupt, people were fired, compensation was slashed, plants were closed, taxpayers fronted the money, etc. How is that different?

The auto companies came back stronger than ever.

Sure. But the auto companies did the exact same thing Bain does to it's companies. The only difference is that GST didn't make it. And you know that the guy who oversaw the auto bailout - Steve Rattner - was a private equity guy like Mitt Romney, who performed the same techniques on Quadrangle's companies as Bain did to theirs, right? Rattner walked the auto companies through bankruptcy in the same manner as any other private equity manager does.

Except Rattner didn't make out like a theif in the night like Bain did.

Sorry, I mean, you can flash these "business school" shit all day, but retired steel worker eating Alpo beats them every time.

 

[Toro]

Those are the deals being publicized, of course, because the political opponents of Romney are using them as a political bludgeon. The MO of political operatives is to isolate the negatives and hammer them relentlessly, regardless of anything else. A quarter of Bain's investments failed, so there is going to be rich ground to find something - anything - that can be spun negatively.

But again, go back to the autos. If you are applying consistent standards, the autos went bankrupt, people were fired, compensation was slashed, plants were closed, taxpayers fronted the money, etc. How is that different?

Very simple.

Obama didn't personally benefit from the car bailout. Quite the contrary, he took quite a lot of heat for doing it.

As far as using them as a "bludgeon" (wow, hitting Romney with a blunt object, what an appealling idea!) Romney himself is the one who is saying, "Hey, look at what I did at Bain. This is why I'm qualified to be president even though it s nothing like being an investment banker. Totally ignore my more recent and relevent experience as a governor, because I don't even want to talk about that."

Which means, okay, let's look at Bain. Let's look at how working folks got screwed at AmPad and Dade and GS Steel while Romney and his cronies made out like bandits, let's look at the really awful decisions they made and how other people were left holding the bag. And then ask, do we really want to do this on the national level.

I say... Nope.

Of course Obama personally benefitted you idiot. He reaped the political benefit of being able to crow about saving Detroit, and now he will probably win MI.

It might be blind to class warriors like yourself, but politicians are as greedy for power as businessmen are for money. Maybe more so.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, it's kinda like follow the leader, huh?? Obama is totally ignoring his most recent and relevant experience as POTUS.

Romney is just getting started, wait til after the convention.

Ummm, why do we need to wait after the convention?

The man's been running for President for six years now, we should have a pretty good idea what he's about..

His campaign is just beginning, he hasn't even officially received the nomination yet. He's a smart man, the left is now trying to paint him as being too conservative, after the "vulture" ploy went awry. He's watching closely, he's laughing at the blow backs. Wonder what's next after the horrible story on his wife's love for horses.

After the convention, he will be all in. It's definitely going to be an interesting political season.

You mean the one where she sold someone a sick polo pony.

I mean, I make cracks about polo ponies all the time, and now we have one.

But to the point, the man has been running for six years now, and except for people like me who do a lot of digging, we just don't know that much about him.

Incidently, Romney is an awful candidate. He got beat by Ted the Drunk, John McCain and Mike Huckabee. Obama's going to have him for lunch.

 

[Toro]

The auto companies came back stronger than ever.

Sure. But the auto companies did the exact same thing Bain does to it's companies. The only difference is that GST didn't make it. And you know that the guy who oversaw the auto bailout - Steve Rattner - was a private equity guy like Mitt Romney, who performed the same techniques on Quadrangle's companies as Bain did to theirs, right? Rattner walked the auto companies through bankruptcy in the same manner as any other private equity manager does.

Except Rattner didn't make out like a theif in the night like Bain did.

Sorry, I mean, you can flash these "business school" shit all day, but retired steel worker eating Alpo beats them every time.

Bain did not make out like a thief in the night, you moron. Class warriors like yourself might think $45,000 a year is an obscene profit, but people generally ignore extremists.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course Obama personally benefitted you idiot. He reaped the political benefit of being able to crow about saving Detroit, and now he will probably win MI.

It might be blind to class warriors like yourself, but politicians are as greedy for power as businessmen are for money. Maybe more so.

The Republicans haven't taken Michigan since 1988. It wasn't a state he was in any serious danger of losing.

And Obama took as much heat as benefit from the gutsy call to save Detroit. if it hadn't worked, he'd have paid a hefty price.

Romney, on the other hand, finds ways to make out personally off the disasters in other people's lives. I've been warning you guys for six months this was coming, and you all pretended it wasn't going to be a big deal because Americans just love them some millionaires...

Whoops.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Well, it's kinda like follow the leader, huh?? Obama is totally ignoring his most recent and relevant experience as POTUS.

Romney is just getting started, wait til after the convention.

Ummm, why do we need to wait after the convention?

The man's been running for President for six years now, we should have a pretty good idea what he's about..

His campaign is just beginning, he hasn't even officially received the nomination yet. He's a smart man, the left is now trying to paint him as being too conservative, after the "vulture" ploy went awry. He's watching closely, he's laughing at the blow backs. Wonder what's next after the horrible story on his wife's love for horses.

After the convention, he will be all in. It's definitely going to be an interesting political season.

You can't change stupid overnight. Romney is going down hard this time. Romney is going to make McCain look like a political genius.

 

[Conservative]

Hey Dickless, the Holocaust Denier... is it wrong to take money for a campaign from Bain employees and then trash Bain? Ask Obama, because he did it.