Biden to Restrict Travel From India

[Dadoalex]

Open your response with a clear lie and the rest is simply ignored.

Your ignorance is astounding. Trump stated (during a debate) that Muslims should be banned from the US, but he never had the authority to do so. What he did was pick select middle-east countries who didn't have accurate records of their people coming here and banned people from those countries. Most Muslims in the world were still allowed to travel to the US.

Democratic Rep. Keith Ellison tweeted that the Supreme Court “ratified Donald Trump’s ‘total and complete shutdown’ of Muslims entry into the United States.” That is a Trump quote from the presidential campaign. But his actual executive actions didn’t go that far.

Trump most recently issued a proclamation restricting certain nationals of Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Yemen and North Korea from obtaining visas to travel to the U.S. Certain Venezuelan government officials and their families were also barred.

The first five countries are majority Muslim nations, but that’s far from banning all Muslims.

In fact, in January 2017, the Pew Research Center estimated that Trump’s original executive order would affect only about 12 percent of Muslims in the world. That was when restrictions were also placed on Iraqi and Sudanese nationals, who have since been excluded.

Trump's 'Travel Ban' Doesn't Affect All Muslims - FactCheck.org

Democratic Rep. Keith Ellison tweeted that the Supreme Court “ratified Donald Trump’s ‘total and complete shutdown’ of Muslims entry into the United States.” That is a Trump quote from the presidential campaign. But his actual executive actions didn’t go that far.

www.factcheck.org

I know you didn't read all of that, because by your standards, FactCheck opened with a lie, huh?

Did I say ALL Muslims. As you ADMITTED his intent was for all Muslims but he BANNED THOSE HE COULD GET AWAY WITH.

None of those people were banned for any other reason than the religion they worship and the color of their skin.

You admit and deny in the same lie, sad.

Wouldn't a "Muslim ban" mean all muslims, by definition?

At the very least, any "Muslim ban" would actually include the word 'Muslim", right?

No. Any more stupid questions?

 

[Dadoalex]

Did I say ALL Muslims. As you ADMITTED his intent was for all Muslims but he BANNED THOSE HE COULD GET AWAY WITH.

None of those people were banned for any other reason than the religion they worship and the color of their skin.

You admit and deny in the same lie, sad.

The point that flew over your head is it had nothing to do with race or religion. A President can ban anybody he wishes for any reason he wants. As my link shows, the ban he put in place only affected a little over 10% of that religion and race.

Trump wanted to put the breaks on terrorism in the US, and most of the terrorists happen to be from the middle-east or with ties to them.

Biden on the other hand is using Covid as an excuse. Now normally, it would be an acceptable and understandable one. But nobody can tell me his concern is actually Covid when he's allowing tens of thousands of untested people to penetrate our southern border and busing them all over the country. Therefore with Biden, it has to be because of race.

Please. I got your point.
Trump banned people because of their race and religion.
Biden did not.

Everything else you said was just lies and excuses to pardon your own as well as Trump's racism.

Trump banned all people from certain countries with a long record of fomenting terrorism. He didn't ban just muslims from those countries.

Oh, and the list was compiled by Barry Hussein so I guess he is a racist too.

The "list" was not compiled by "Barry" just as it was not compiled by Cap'n Cheeto.
Cap'n Cheeto and his merry band of criminal conspirators put together the list to please the racists in the GOP.
At the next get together look to your left, now look right, now take a selfie and look at that. 100% of the people you just looked at are racists who loved this...
BECAUSE it was just what they've always wanted
To keep those nasty brown non-Christians out of their country.

AND the stupid part...

Most of the 911 terrorists, shoe bomber, and others were NOT from the countries on the list.
and
How many North Korean terrorists have you seen? NONE? Well, they were added to the list so it's not about terrorism is it?

 

[Dadoalex]

Again, not my role to educate the incredibly stupid.

If you do not know the facts surrounding the topic WTF are you doing here attempting to discuss it?

Educate yourself. Then try again.

If you can't answer the question, simply don't respond or say "I can't answer that question."

Difference between "Can't" and "Won't"

Try educating yourself on the difference and maybe you can start educating yourself on other stuff before becoming yet another example described by my tag.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Like they did to Trump will Biden be called a Racist for banning a certain group from entering the country?

The U.S. will start restricting travel from India on Tuesday, the White House says.

Unlike Trump the ban isn't based on the color or religion of the people living there.
Unlike Trump there is a legitimate public interest in the ban.
The only problem with the ban is that it didn't start 12 hours ago.

Tell US when and where Trump restricted immigration or visitation based on color, race, or creed?

That you are so ignorant of recent history as to know nothing of this subject is both sad and expected.

But, little one, my role is not to educate you. Blame mommy and daddy.

Then go to google and search "trump Muslim ban" and educate yourself.

You just admitted you lied.

And you just admitted you are too stupid to use google. Shame there.

I use it all the time. Many times to back up claims I make here, unlike you.

But then, you are a proven lying sack of shit so Google can't help you.

When I make specific claims I back them up.
When what should be common knowledge is disputed by you, the ignorant and stupid, not my role to educate you. You should have paid attention in school rather than spending your day trying to look up the teacher's dress. Your stupidity is not my problem.

If you know how to use the tools and are still this ignorant than that, my stupid apprentice, is all on you.

Bullshit. You can’t back it up so you are using “it’s common knowledge” (that makes two things you need to back up) and/or “ go use search tools”. Keep going. You are heading faster towards negative credibility. Your personal insults simply act as accelerators towards less than credible.

 

[Nostra]

Like they did to Trump will Biden be called a Racist for banning a certain group from entering the country?

The U.S. will start restricting travel from India on Tuesday, the White House says.

Unlike Trump the ban isn't based on the color or religion of the people living there.
Unlike Trump there is a legitimate public interest in the ban.
The only problem with the ban is that it didn't start 12 hours ago.

Tell US when and where Trump restricted immigration or visitation based on color, race, or creed?

That you are so ignorant of recent history as to know nothing of this subject is both sad and expected.

But, little one, my role is not to educate you. Blame mommy and daddy.

Then go to google and search "trump Muslim ban" and educate yourself.

You just admitted you lied.

And you just admitted you are too stupid to use google. Shame there.

I use it all the time. Many times to back up claims I make here, unlike you.

But then, you are a proven lying sack of shit so Google can't help you.

When I make specific claims I back them up.
When what should be common knowledge is disputed by you, the ignorant and stupid, not my role to educate you. You should have paid attention in school rather than spending your day trying to look up the teacher's dress. Your stupidity is not my problem.

If you know how to use the tools and are still this ignorant than that, my stupid apprentice, is all on you.

When I make specific claims I back them up.

Then back up the claim Trump restricted immigration based on color, race, or creed? So far, you have failed miserably.

Until you back up that claim you are a lying sack of shit.

GO!

 

[Nostra]

Open your response with a clear lie and the rest is simply ignored.

Your ignorance is astounding. Trump stated (during a debate) that Muslims should be banned from the US, but he never had the authority to do so. What he did was pick select middle-east countries who didn't have accurate records of their people coming here and banned people from those countries. Most Muslims in the world were still allowed to travel to the US.

Democratic Rep. Keith Ellison tweeted that the Supreme Court “ratified Donald Trump’s ‘total and complete shutdown’ of Muslims entry into the United States.” That is a Trump quote from the presidential campaign. But his actual executive actions didn’t go that far.

Trump most recently issued a proclamation restricting certain nationals of Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Yemen and North Korea from obtaining visas to travel to the U.S. Certain Venezuelan government officials and their families were also barred.

The first five countries are majority Muslim nations, but that’s far from banning all Muslims.

In fact, in January 2017, the Pew Research Center estimated that Trump’s original executive order would affect only about 12 percent of Muslims in the world. That was when restrictions were also placed on Iraqi and Sudanese nationals, who have since been excluded.

Trump's 'Travel Ban' Doesn't Affect All Muslims - FactCheck.org

Democratic Rep. Keith Ellison tweeted that the Supreme Court “ratified Donald Trump’s ‘total and complete shutdown’ of Muslims entry into the United States.” That is a Trump quote from the presidential campaign. But his actual executive actions didn’t go that far.

www.factcheck.org

I know you didn't read all of that, because by your standards, FactCheck opened with a lie, huh?

Did I say ALL Muslims. As you ADMITTED his intent was for all Muslims but he BANNED THOSE HE COULD GET AWAY WITH.

None of those people were banned for any other reason than the religion they worship and the color of their skin.

You admit and deny in the same lie, sad.

Wouldn't a "Muslim ban" mean all muslims, by definition?

At the very least, any "Muslim ban" would actually include the word 'Muslim", right?

No. Any more stupid questions?

Gotcha. A Muslim ban without using the word Muslim.

How does that work? Certainly not by banning travel from countries of all citizens of said country without regard to race, religion etc......

Explain how you ban Muslims simply by banning travel from a select few countries, and leaving the most populace Muslim countries off the list.

GO!

 

[Nostra]

Did I say ALL Muslims. As you ADMITTED his intent was for all Muslims but he BANNED THOSE HE COULD GET AWAY WITH.

None of those people were banned for any other reason than the religion they worship and the color of their skin.

You admit and deny in the same lie, sad.

The point that flew over your head is it had nothing to do with race or religion. A President can ban anybody he wishes for any reason he wants. As my link shows, the ban he put in place only affected a little over 10% of that religion and race.

Trump wanted to put the breaks on terrorism in the US, and most of the terrorists happen to be from the middle-east or with ties to them.

Biden on the other hand is using Covid as an excuse. Now normally, it would be an acceptable and understandable one. But nobody can tell me his concern is actually Covid when he's allowing tens of thousands of untested people to penetrate our southern border and busing them all over the country. Therefore with Biden, it has to be because of race.

Please. I got your point.
Trump banned people because of their race and religion.
Biden did not.

Everything else you said was just lies and excuses to pardon your own as well as Trump's racism.

Trump banned all people from certain countries with a long record of fomenting terrorism. He didn't ban just muslims from those countries.

Oh, and the list was compiled by Barry Hussein so I guess he is a racist too.

The "list" was not compiled by "Barry" just as it was not compiled by Cap'n Cheeto.
Cap'n Cheeto and his merry band of criminal conspirators put together the list to please the racists in the GOP.
At the next get together look to your left, now look right, now take a selfie and look at that. 100% of the people you just looked at are racists who loved this...
BECAUSE it was just what they've always wanted
To keep those nasty brown non-Christians out of their country.

AND the stupid part...

Most of the 911 terrorists, shoe bomber, and others were NOT from the countries on the list.
and
How many North Korean terrorists have you seen? NONE? Well, they were added to the list so it's not about terrorism is it?

The "list" was not compiled by "Barry" just as it was not compiled by Cap'n Cheeto.

A liar and dumb as a stump is no way to go thru life, son.

Friendly Reminder: Obama Selected The List Of Muslim Countries in Trump’s Executive Order



^^^^That is a link backing up a claim. You should try it sometime, Puddinhead^^^^^^

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Gotcha. A Muslim ban without using the word Muslim.

How does that work? Certainly not by banning travel from countries of all citizens of said country without regard to race, religion etc......

Explain how you ban Muslims simply by banning travel from a select few countries, and leaving the most populace Muslim countries off the list.

GO!

I posted the FactCheck link for him and he still thinks it's a Muslim ban even though my link pointed out it was only 12% of Muslims that couldn't get in. Every other Muslim was still welcome to the US.

 

[Dadoalex]

Like they did to Trump will Biden be called a Racist for banning a certain group from entering the country?

The U.S. will start restricting travel from India on Tuesday, the White House says.

Unlike Trump the ban isn't based on the color or religion of the people living there.
Unlike Trump there is a legitimate public interest in the ban.
The only problem with the ban is that it didn't start 12 hours ago.

Tell US when and where Trump restricted immigration or visitation based on color, race, or creed?

That you are so ignorant of recent history as to know nothing of this subject is both sad and expected.

But, little one, my role is not to educate you. Blame mommy and daddy.

Then go to google and search "trump Muslim ban" and educate yourself.

You just admitted you lied.

And you just admitted you are too stupid to use google. Shame there.

I use it all the time. Many times to back up claims I make here, unlike you.

But then, you are a proven lying sack of shit so Google can't help you.

When I make specific claims I back them up.
When what should be common knowledge is disputed by you, the ignorant and stupid, not my role to educate you. You should have paid attention in school rather than spending your day trying to look up the teacher's dress. Your stupidity is not my problem.

If you know how to use the tools and are still this ignorant than that, my stupid apprentice, is all on you.

Bullshit. You can’t back it up so you are using “it’s common knowledge” (that makes two things you need to back up) and/or “ go use search tools”. Keep going. You are heading faster towards negative credibility. Your personal insults simply act as accelerators towards less than credible.

When you deny the existence of Trump's Muslim ban or try to equate it to Biden stopping travel from India then you are displaying both stupidity and ignorance.

Your ignorance can be dispelled with a frequent use of research tools. Tools you obviously ignore in favor of repeating Trump lies.
Your stupidity on the other hand will take much work.

It is not my role to remove your ignorance. If you don't know and understand the topic you are not qualified to participate. Educate yourself.
Nor it it my role to be patient with your stupidity. Embarrass yourself and I will gladly point it out. But I'll make no effort to correct it.

As for credibility...

Those denying the truth lose credibility.
Those who lie lose credibility.

You lose on both counts.

 

[Indeependent]

Biden has also retained Trump's ban on H1-Bs.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Like they did to Trump will Biden be called a Racist for banning a certain group from entering the country?

The U.S. will start restricting travel from India on Tuesday, the White House says.

Unlike Trump the ban isn't based on the color or religion of the people living there.
Unlike Trump there is a legitimate public interest in the ban.
The only problem with the ban is that it didn't start 12 hours ago.

Tell US when and where Trump restricted immigration or visitation based on color, race, or creed?

That you are so ignorant of recent history as to know nothing of this subject is both sad and expected.

But, little one, my role is not to educate you. Blame mommy and daddy.

Then go to google and search "trump Muslim ban" and educate yourself.

You just admitted you lied.

And you just admitted you are too stupid to use google. Shame there.

I use it all the time. Many times to back up claims I make here, unlike you.

But then, you are a proven lying sack of shit so Google can't help you.

When I make specific claims I back them up.
When what should be common knowledge is disputed by you, the ignorant and stupid, not my role to educate you. You should have paid attention in school rather than spending your day trying to look up the teacher's dress. Your stupidity is not my problem.

If you know how to use the tools and are still this ignorant than that, my stupid apprentice, is all on you.

Bullshit. You can’t back it up so you are using “it’s common knowledge” (that makes two things you need to back up) and/or “ go use search tools”. Keep going. You are heading faster towards negative credibility. Your personal insults simply act as accelerators towards less than credible.

When you deny the existence of Trump's Muslim ban or try to equate it to Biden stopping travel from India then you are displaying both stupidity and ignorance.

Your ignorance can be dispelled with a frequent use of research tools. Tools you obviously ignore in favor of repeating Trump lies.
Your stupidity on the other hand will take much work.

It is not my role to remove your ignorance. If you don't know and understand the topic you are not qualified to participate. Educate yourself.
Nor it it my role to be patient with your stupidity. Embarrass yourself and I will gladly point it out. But I'll make no effort to correct it.

As for credibility...

Those denying the truth lose credibility.
Those who lie lose credibility.

You lose on both counts.

You lost because you could not and still cannot identify where Trump banned all Muslims from Muslim countries. Prove me wrong andgive yourself some credibility.

 

[themirrorthief]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. will restrict travel from India starting on May 4, the White House said Friday, citing a devastating rise in COVID-19 cases in the country and the emergence of potentially dangerous variants of the coronavirus.

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said President Joe Biden’s administration made the determination on the advice of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

US to restrict travel from India over COVID

**Watch a recent press conference with Ohio Gov. DeWine on COVID-19 in the video, above** WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. will restrict travel from India starting on May 4, the White House said Friday, …

fox8.com

Trying to hide their racist tendencies behind Covid which is already in our country. Does it make any sense to restrict travel from India when the Dementia President is allowing people from South America to invade our country untested, and then bus them around the entire nation coast to coast? Obviously they don't care about any Covid spread, they are just racist against Indians.

Obiden is such a racist monster...the fiend

 

[themirrorthief]

The Dem hypocrisy is flowing out a firehose.

Storm sewers

The liberal news media will call Biden a racist...well never. Dems rushed to the cameras when Trump dared restrict travel from Covid infested countries, a Dem does the same damn thing and it's crickets. Dems are such phony assholes.

duh...the democrats are so damned racist,,,,been keeping black an brown people down for many decades...and Obiden is the racist in chief

 

[excalibur]

Ah, Biden.

 

[Dadoalex]

Like they did to Trump will Biden be called a Racist for banning a certain group from entering the country?

The U.S. will start restricting travel from India on Tuesday, the White House says.

Unlike Trump the ban isn't based on the color or religion of the people living there.
Unlike Trump there is a legitimate public interest in the ban.
The only problem with the ban is that it didn't start 12 hours ago.

Tell US when and where Trump restricted immigration or visitation based on color, race, or creed?

That you are so ignorant of recent history as to know nothing of this subject is both sad and expected.

But, little one, my role is not to educate you. Blame mommy and daddy.

Then go to google and search "trump Muslim ban" and educate yourself.

You just admitted you lied.

And you just admitted you are too stupid to use google. Shame there.

I use it all the time. Many times to back up claims I make here, unlike you.

But then, you are a proven lying sack of shit so Google can't help you.

When I make specific claims I back them up.
When what should be common knowledge is disputed by you, the ignorant and stupid, not my role to educate you. You should have paid attention in school rather than spending your day trying to look up the teacher's dress. Your stupidity is not my problem.

If you know how to use the tools and are still this ignorant than that, my stupid apprentice, is all on you.

When I make specific claims I back them up.

Then back up the claim Trump restricted immigration based on color, race, or creed? So far, you have failed miserably.

Until you back up that claim you are a lying sack of shit.

GO!

Please asswipe.

I showed you how to find it yourself.
If you are to stupid, too lazy, or just to afraid of the truth to pursue something other than a message board for your information all that means is

You are too stupid, too lazy, or just to afraid of the truth to pursue something other than a message board for your information.

Now go suck your evening cheeto and off to bed little man.

 

[Dadoalex]

Open your response with a clear lie and the rest is simply ignored.

Your ignorance is astounding. Trump stated (during a debate) that Muslims should be banned from the US, but he never had the authority to do so. What he did was pick select middle-east countries who didn't have accurate records of their people coming here and banned people from those countries. Most Muslims in the world were still allowed to travel to the US.

Democratic Rep. Keith Ellison tweeted that the Supreme Court “ratified Donald Trump’s ‘total and complete shutdown’ of Muslims entry into the United States.” That is a Trump quote from the presidential campaign. But his actual executive actions didn’t go that far.

Trump most recently issued a proclamation restricting certain nationals of Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Yemen and North Korea from obtaining visas to travel to the U.S. Certain Venezuelan government officials and their families were also barred.

The first five countries are majority Muslim nations, but that’s far from banning all Muslims.

In fact, in January 2017, the Pew Research Center estimated that Trump’s original executive order would affect only about 12 percent of Muslims in the world. That was when restrictions were also placed on Iraqi and Sudanese nationals, who have since been excluded.

Trump's 'Travel Ban' Doesn't Affect All Muslims - FactCheck.org

Democratic Rep. Keith Ellison tweeted that the Supreme Court “ratified Donald Trump’s ‘total and complete shutdown’ of Muslims entry into the United States.” That is a Trump quote from the presidential campaign. But his actual executive actions didn’t go that far.

www.factcheck.org

I know you didn't read all of that, because by your standards, FactCheck opened with a lie, huh?

Did I say ALL Muslims. As you ADMITTED his intent was for all Muslims but he BANNED THOSE HE COULD GET AWAY WITH.

None of those people were banned for any other reason than the religion they worship and the color of their skin.

You admit and deny in the same lie, sad.

Wouldn't a "Muslim ban" mean all muslims, by definition?

At the very least, any "Muslim ban" would actually include the word 'Muslim", right?

No. Any more stupid questions?

Gotcha. A Muslim ban without using the word Muslim.

How does that work? Certainly not by banning travel from countries of all citizens of said country without regard to race, religion etc......

Explain how you ban Muslims simply by banning travel from a select few countries, and leaving the most populace Muslim countries off the list.

GO!

OK, just for the stupid...

Water fountains in the south in 1950 didn't say "We don't want any niggars drinking where respectable White people drink."
But that's what "Whites Only" means.

Multiple cases bought in multiple jurisdictions heard by multiple judges found the actions illegal and unconstitutional BECAUSE it targeted people for their race and religion.

AGAIN
Most of the 911 hijackers were NOT from any of the countries banned.
The shoe bomber was from England, not on the list
The marathon bombers were from countries not on the list

When dealing with racism and racists watch what they do, not what they say.

BECAUSE, we all know

When republicans tell the truth, it's an accident.

 

[Dadoalex]

Did I say ALL Muslims. As you ADMITTED his intent was for all Muslims but he BANNED THOSE HE COULD GET AWAY WITH.

None of those people were banned for any other reason than the religion they worship and the color of their skin.

You admit and deny in the same lie, sad.

The point that flew over your head is it had nothing to do with race or religion. A President can ban anybody he wishes for any reason he wants. As my link shows, the ban he put in place only affected a little over 10% of that religion and race.

Trump wanted to put the breaks on terrorism in the US, and most of the terrorists happen to be from the middle-east or with ties to them.

Biden on the other hand is using Covid as an excuse. Now normally, it would be an acceptable and understandable one. But nobody can tell me his concern is actually Covid when he's allowing tens of thousands of untested people to penetrate our southern border and busing them all over the country. Therefore with Biden, it has to be because of race.

Please. I got your point.
Trump banned people because of their race and religion.
Biden did not.

Everything else you said was just lies and excuses to pardon your own as well as Trump's racism.

Trump banned all people from certain countries with a long record of fomenting terrorism. He didn't ban just muslims from those countries.

Oh, and the list was compiled by Barry Hussein so I guess he is a racist too.

The "list" was not compiled by "Barry" just as it was not compiled by Cap'n Cheeto.
Cap'n Cheeto and his merry band of criminal conspirators put together the list to please the racists in the GOP.
At the next get together look to your left, now look right, now take a selfie and look at that. 100% of the people you just looked at are racists who loved this...
BECAUSE it was just what they've always wanted
To keep those nasty brown non-Christians out of their country.

AND the stupid part...

Most of the 911 terrorists, shoe bomber, and others were NOT from the countries on the list.
and
How many North Korean terrorists have you seen? NONE? Well, they were added to the list so it's not about terrorism is it?

The "list" was not compiled by "Barry" just as it was not compiled by Cap'n Cheeto.

A liar and dumb as a stump is no way to go thru life, son.

Friendly Reminder: Obama Selected The List Of Muslim Countries in Trump’s Executive Order



^^^^That is a link backing up a claim. You should try it sometime, Puddinhead^^^^^^

First. fool, I said neither Trump nor Obama compiled the list. As your fucking link show the list was compiled under Bush! Do you bother to read your own crap or do you just see the sentence in the OPINION PIECE and assume that because you saw it on the internet it must be true?

GEEZ,

Second, oh ye of Tiny Brain, don't come here with an OPED from Townhall and use it as a fact source. The only thing you can say that is factually accurate about your "proof" is that "some guy said this."

And finally, Mr. Proof of the Tiny Brain Theory, the list was originally compiled and updated under the NSA and CIA. If you could think beyond the cheeto colored turn on the end of your nose you would have figured that out. That's right, fool, trump used a list compiled by the hated and traitorous NSA deep staters. BWAHAHAHA

P.S.
If you want to blame someone for the "Trump Muslim Ban," blame Trump. In every case the courts cited Trump's own rhetoric in shooting down the ban. But then, if Trump hadn't used such hateful racist rhetoric would he have ever been elected? A topic deserving of its own thread.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

What???

Biden is starting a Hindu ban?

How racist of him.

If only the MSM and the Democrats were consistent

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Most of the 911 terrorists, shoe bomber, and others were NOT from the countries on the list.

He was a British CITIZEN, but he is black and a convert to ISLAM

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If you want to blame someone for the "Trump Muslim Ban," blame Trump. In every case the courts cited Trump's own rhetoric in shooting down the ban. But then, if Trump hadn't used such hateful racist rhetoric would he have ever been elected? A topic deserving of its own thread.

Those were just the commie judges using judicial legislation. They finally had to allow his ban because the law giving the President such power was passed in the 60's.