Biden stimulus bill $15 minimum wage

Jake Winker Frogen

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I answered the question, you just do not like the answer.
I must have missed the answer and cannot find it, so if you can humor me, one more time: If $15.00 an hour minimum wage is good for the economy, then $25.00 an hour is even better, correct? And if $25.00 an hour is better, then why not make it the best at $30.00 an hour?

The Cleveland point is a good one, of course employers are going to move if they can, if they are not tied to the current market or can export their goods and services to it after moving to the lowest paid labour market they will, hell most American employers are such savages they would only pay in canned food if it were legal.

But that only highlights several issues with the American economy, how a standard national minimum wage is required and the more subtle question what are the effects on demand in those low wage paying economies?
Exactly, now you have it. Employers will react to a huge minimum wage increase. They will move out of the country because all industry would have to pay their workers more money whether they were paying them minimum wage or not.

As a landlord, I try to give my tenants reasonably priced apartments. But what do I do when my costs start increasing? My grocery bill increases greatly. My plumber charges more money for services or repair. Same for my heating guy. Gasoline for lawn and snow removal equipment. Items I need to buy from Home Depot or my local hardware store for things I repair myself. The answer is I have to increase my rental prices. I won't take the loss. That's not why I bought into this business.

Besides higher rental prices, my tenants are also faced with the same problem I have: the cost of everything they buy went up. So even if they are making more money, how are they ahead?
I have answered the question about 15 dollars vice 25 twice but I cannot do anything about your reading comprehension skills, or lack thereof. (Your own logic would be why not pay one dollar per hour or even in canned food, that would create more jobs.) The premise is primitive.

See again the point about minimum wages increasing consumer demand and not being inflationary if they are below 50% of the medium wage.

As for companies moving out of America, they have been doing that even though America has some of the lowest minimum wages in the developed world.

But most of the American economy is service sector and that cannot move out, it requires the local market to serve.

Right now America is in a deflationary period, service sector wages are low. America needs demand and increasing the minimum wage increases consumer demand. Let alone addresses the grotesque working poverty in America.

15 dollars is well below the empirical evidence that minimum wages can be set without damaging either employment or inflation goals if it is below 50% of the medium wage, which 15 dollars is way under.

US wages are way below where they were in the American golden age of a working middle class in the 50s, 60s and early 70s, they lost ground ever since, this is one step to help repair the damage that primitive and barbaric economic thinking, make workers work ever more for ever less has done not only to the American economy but to the cohesion of an ever fraying and chaotic American society.
You think a low minimum wage has caused fraying in American society? Seriously? That kind of fanciful leap of logic might have won over your college Political Science professor, Jake but it's a load of crap and I think even YOU know it! Our society is "fraying" because we've lost our work ethic...not because we work too much! It's "fraying" because our young take their cues from idiots they listen to in school and on the internet. It's "fraying" because we're obsessed with material goods that we haven't earned...can't afford...but want anyways!
Nope; it is globalization and valuation for the rich but not the poor. CEOs don't get paid on how productive they are but on the valuation of the Firm.

One of the attributes of a successful society is the belief hard work will lead to a better life, the increasing working poverty in the US does indeed lead to social instability, that is basic sociology and history, not a radical theory.

In fact the very election of nationalist demagogue Trump is a result to large degree of a blue collar working class that has seen their standard of living decline dramatically in the last few decades, so they responded to his economic nationalism and sadly were blindly loyal to the delusions of his rhetoric and personality, most poisonous of all the election fraud claims which has severely damaged political process and democracy itself.

Wages, poverty, the shrinking working middle class all have a lot to do with social cohesion.

A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage will not solve all this but it is a civilised step that will increase demand in a currently deflation demand collapse and offer hope to millions working in one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world.
 
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Oldestyle

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I answered the question, you just do not like the answer.
I must have missed the answer and cannot find it, so if you can humor me, one more time: If $15.00 an hour minimum wage is good for the economy, then $25.00 an hour is even better, correct? And if $25.00 an hour is better, then why not make it the best at $30.00 an hour?

The Cleveland point is a good one, of course employers are going to move if they can, if they are not tied to the current market or can export their goods and services to it after moving to the lowest paid labour market they will, hell most American employers are such savages they would only pay in canned food if it were legal.

But that only highlights several issues with the American economy, how a standard national minimum wage is required and the more subtle question what are the effects on demand in those low wage paying economies?
Exactly, now you have it. Employers will react to a huge minimum wage increase. They will move out of the country because all industry would have to pay their workers more money whether they were paying them minimum wage or not.

As a landlord, I try to give my tenants reasonably priced apartments. But what do I do when my costs start increasing? My grocery bill increases greatly. My plumber charges more money for services or repair. Same for my heating guy. Gasoline for lawn and snow removal equipment. Items I need to buy from Home Depot or my local hardware store for things I repair myself. The answer is I have to increase my rental prices. I won't take the loss. That's not why I bought into this business.

Besides higher rental prices, my tenants are also faced with the same problem I have: the cost of everything they buy went up. So even if they are making more money, how are they ahead?
I have answered the question about 15 dollars vice 25 twice but I cannot do anything about your reading comprehension skills, or lack thereof. (Your own logic would be why not pay one dollar per hour or even in canned food, that would create more jobs.) The premise is primitive.

See again the point about minimum wages increasing consumer demand and not being inflationary if they are below 50% of the medium wage.

As for companies moving out of America, they have been doing that even though America has some of the lowest minimum wages in the developed world.

But most of the American economy is service sector and that cannot move out, it requires the local market to serve.

Right now America is in a deflationary period, service sector wages are low. America needs demand and increasing the minimum wage increases consumer demand. Let alone addresses the grotesque working poverty in America.

15 dollars is well below the empirical evidence that minimum wages can be set without damaging either employment or inflation goals if it is below 50% of the medium wage, which 15 dollars is way under.

US wages are way below where they were in the American golden age of a working middle class in the 50s, 60s and early 70s, they lost ground ever since, this is one step to help repair the damage that primitive and barbaric economic thinking, make workers work ever more for ever less has done not only to the American economy but to the cohesion of an ever fraying and chaotic American society.
You think a low minimum wage has caused fraying in American society? Seriously? That kind of fanciful leap of logic might have won over your college Political Science professor, Jake but it's a load of crap and I think even YOU know it! Our society is "fraying" because we've lost our work ethic...not because we work too much! It's "fraying" because our young take their cues from idiots they listen to in school and on the internet. It's "fraying" because we're obsessed with material goods that we haven't earned...can't afford...but want anyways!
Nope; it is globalization and valuation for the rich but not the poor. CEOs don't get paid on how productive they are but on the valuation of the Firm.

One of the attributes of a successful society is the belief hard work will lead to a better life, the increasing working poverty in the US does indeed lead to social instability, that is basic sociology and history, not a radical theory.

In fact the very election of nationalist demagogue Trump is a result to large degree of a blue collar working class that has seen their standard of living decline dramatically in the last few decades, so they responded to his economic nationalism and sadly were blindly loyal to the delusions of his rhetoric and personality, most poisonous of all the election fraud claims which has severely damaged political process and democracy itself.

Wages, poverty, the shrinking working middle class all have a lot to do with social cohesion.

A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage will not solve all this but it is a civilised step that will increase demand in a currently deflation demand collapse and offer hope to millions working in one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world.
Are you on crack? The US is one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world? Did you seriously just say that? People are literally marching thousands of miles from places like Honduras just to have the chance of taking part in the US economy! They aren't doing that because it's "barbaric"...they're doing it because the US is STILL a place where hard work can make a poor person rich!
 

Ray From Cleveland

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A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage will not solve all this but it is a civilised step that will increase demand in a currently deflation demand collapse and offer hope to millions working in one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world.
No, what it will create is businesses making more investments in automation, using more outsourcing, less new small business startups, and some moving out of the country entirely. And remember who is in charge of the entire country: Democrats. That's right, open border Democrats who will allow any third worlder to come here and work for lower wages than Americans demand.

When you have all these lower paying jobs disappear, it creates less competition for labor instead of more.
 

danielpalos

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I answered the question, you just do not like the answer.
I must have missed the answer and cannot find it, so if you can humor me, one more time: If $15.00 an hour minimum wage is good for the economy, then $25.00 an hour is even better, correct? And if $25.00 an hour is better, then why not make it the best at $30.00 an hour?

The Cleveland point is a good one, of course employers are going to move if they can, if they are not tied to the current market or can export their goods and services to it after moving to the lowest paid labour market they will, hell most American employers are such savages they would only pay in canned food if it were legal.

But that only highlights several issues with the American economy, how a standard national minimum wage is required and the more subtle question what are the effects on demand in those low wage paying economies?
Exactly, now you have it. Employers will react to a huge minimum wage increase. They will move out of the country because all industry would have to pay their workers more money whether they were paying them minimum wage or not.

As a landlord, I try to give my tenants reasonably priced apartments. But what do I do when my costs start increasing? My grocery bill increases greatly. My plumber charges more money for services or repair. Same for my heating guy. Gasoline for lawn and snow removal equipment. Items I need to buy from Home Depot or my local hardware store for things I repair myself. The answer is I have to increase my rental prices. I won't take the loss. That's not why I bought into this business.

Besides higher rental prices, my tenants are also faced with the same problem I have: the cost of everything they buy went up. So even if they are making more money, how are they ahead?
I have answered the question about 15 dollars vice 25 twice but I cannot do anything about your reading comprehension skills, or lack thereof. (Your own logic would be why not pay one dollar per hour or even in canned food, that would create more jobs.) The premise is primitive.

See again the point about minimum wages increasing consumer demand and not being inflationary if they are below 50% of the medium wage.

As for companies moving out of America, they have been doing that even though America has some of the lowest minimum wages in the developed world.

But most of the American economy is service sector and that cannot move out, it requires the local market to serve.

Right now America is in a deflationary period, service sector wages are low. America needs demand and increasing the minimum wage increases consumer demand. Let alone addresses the grotesque working poverty in America.

15 dollars is well below the empirical evidence that minimum wages can be set without damaging either employment or inflation goals if it is below 50% of the medium wage, which 15 dollars is way under.

US wages are way below where they were in the American golden age of a working middle class in the 50s, 60s and early 70s, they lost ground ever since, this is one step to help repair the damage that primitive and barbaric economic thinking, make workers work ever more for ever less has done not only to the American economy but to the cohesion of an ever fraying and chaotic American society.
You think a low minimum wage has caused fraying in American society? Seriously? That kind of fanciful leap of logic might have won over your college Political Science professor, Jake but it's a load of crap and I think even YOU know it! Our society is "fraying" because we've lost our work ethic...not because we work too much! It's "fraying" because our young take their cues from idiots they listen to in school and on the internet. It's "fraying" because we're obsessed with material goods that we haven't earned...can't afford...but want anyways!
Nope; it is globalization and valuation for the rich but not the poor. CEOs don't get paid on how productive they are but on the valuation of the Firm.

One of the attributes of a successful society is the belief hard work will lead to a better life, the increasing working poverty in the US does indeed lead to social instability, that is basic sociology and history, not a radical theory.

In fact the very election of nationalist demagogue Trump is a result to large degree of a blue collar working class that has seen their standard of living decline dramatically in the last few decades, so they responded to his economic nationalism and sadly were blindly loyal to the delusions of his rhetoric and personality, most poisonous of all the election fraud claims which has severely damaged political process and democracy itself.

Wages, poverty, the shrinking working middle class all have a lot to do with social cohesion.

A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage will not solve all this but it is a civilised step that will increase demand in a currently deflation demand collapse and offer hope to millions working in one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world.
Are you on crack? The US is one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world? Did you seriously just say that? People are literally marching thousands of miles from places like Honduras just to have the chance of taking part in the US economy! They aren't doing that because it's "barbaric"...they're doing it because the US is STILL a place where hard work can make a poor person rich!
You misunderstood, like usual. And, why did anyone come from the old world if not worse conditions there than here.
 

Oldestyle

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I answered the question, you just do not like the answer.
I must have missed the answer and cannot find it, so if you can humor me, one more time: If $15.00 an hour minimum wage is good for the economy, then $25.00 an hour is even better, correct? And if $25.00 an hour is better, then why not make it the best at $30.00 an hour?

The Cleveland point is a good one, of course employers are going to move if they can, if they are not tied to the current market or can export their goods and services to it after moving to the lowest paid labour market they will, hell most American employers are such savages they would only pay in canned food if it were legal.

But that only highlights several issues with the American economy, how a standard national minimum wage is required and the more subtle question what are the effects on demand in those low wage paying economies?
Exactly, now you have it. Employers will react to a huge minimum wage increase. They will move out of the country because all industry would have to pay their workers more money whether they were paying them minimum wage or not.

As a landlord, I try to give my tenants reasonably priced apartments. But what do I do when my costs start increasing? My grocery bill increases greatly. My plumber charges more money for services or repair. Same for my heating guy. Gasoline for lawn and snow removal equipment. Items I need to buy from Home Depot or my local hardware store for things I repair myself. The answer is I have to increase my rental prices. I won't take the loss. That's not why I bought into this business.

Besides higher rental prices, my tenants are also faced with the same problem I have: the cost of everything they buy went up. So even if they are making more money, how are they ahead?
I have answered the question about 15 dollars vice 25 twice but I cannot do anything about your reading comprehension skills, or lack thereof. (Your own logic would be why not pay one dollar per hour or even in canned food, that would create more jobs.) The premise is primitive.

See again the point about minimum wages increasing consumer demand and not being inflationary if they are below 50% of the medium wage.

As for companies moving out of America, they have been doing that even though America has some of the lowest minimum wages in the developed world.

But most of the American economy is service sector and that cannot move out, it requires the local market to serve.

Right now America is in a deflationary period, service sector wages are low. America needs demand and increasing the minimum wage increases consumer demand. Let alone addresses the grotesque working poverty in America.

15 dollars is well below the empirical evidence that minimum wages can be set without damaging either employment or inflation goals if it is below 50% of the medium wage, which 15 dollars is way under.

US wages are way below where they were in the American golden age of a working middle class in the 50s, 60s and early 70s, they lost ground ever since, this is one step to help repair the damage that primitive and barbaric economic thinking, make workers work ever more for ever less has done not only to the American economy but to the cohesion of an ever fraying and chaotic American society.
You think a low minimum wage has caused fraying in American society? Seriously? That kind of fanciful leap of logic might have won over your college Political Science professor, Jake but it's a load of crap and I think even YOU know it! Our society is "fraying" because we've lost our work ethic...not because we work too much! It's "fraying" because our young take their cues from idiots they listen to in school and on the internet. It's "fraying" because we're obsessed with material goods that we haven't earned...can't afford...but want anyways!
Nope; it is globalization and valuation for the rich but not the poor. CEOs don't get paid on how productive they are but on the valuation of the Firm.

One of the attributes of a successful society is the belief hard work will lead to a better life, the increasing working poverty in the US does indeed lead to social instability, that is basic sociology and history, not a radical theory.

In fact the very election of nationalist demagogue Trump is a result to large degree of a blue collar working class that has seen their standard of living decline dramatically in the last few decades, so they responded to his economic nationalism and sadly were blindly loyal to the delusions of his rhetoric and personality, most poisonous of all the election fraud claims which has severely damaged political process and democracy itself.

Wages, poverty, the shrinking working middle class all have a lot to do with social cohesion.

A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage will not solve all this but it is a civilised step that will increase demand in a currently deflation demand collapse and offer hope to millions working in one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world.
Are you on crack? The US is one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world? Did you seriously just say that? People are literally marching thousands of miles from places like Honduras just to have the chance of taking part in the US economy! They aren't doing that because it's "barbaric"...they're doing it because the US is STILL a place where hard work can make a poor person rich!
You misunderstood, like usual. And, why did anyone come from the old world if not worse conditions there than here.
From the Old World? Many of them came here to escape religious persecution. Many came because of the promise of available land. It wasn't because "conditions" were so great here because quite frankly conditions SUCKED in the Colonies at first! So what is it that you think I "misunderstood", Daniel? I'm a History major. It's a topic I know something about. Am I going to have to school you on it again?
 

danielpalos

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I answered the question, you just do not like the answer.
I must have missed the answer and cannot find it, so if you can humor me, one more time: If $15.00 an hour minimum wage is good for the economy, then $25.00 an hour is even better, correct? And if $25.00 an hour is better, then why not make it the best at $30.00 an hour?

The Cleveland point is a good one, of course employers are going to move if they can, if they are not tied to the current market or can export their goods and services to it after moving to the lowest paid labour market they will, hell most American employers are such savages they would only pay in canned food if it were legal.

But that only highlights several issues with the American economy, how a standard national minimum wage is required and the more subtle question what are the effects on demand in those low wage paying economies?
Exactly, now you have it. Employers will react to a huge minimum wage increase. They will move out of the country because all industry would have to pay their workers more money whether they were paying them minimum wage or not.

As a landlord, I try to give my tenants reasonably priced apartments. But what do I do when my costs start increasing? My grocery bill increases greatly. My plumber charges more money for services or repair. Same for my heating guy. Gasoline for lawn and snow removal equipment. Items I need to buy from Home Depot or my local hardware store for things I repair myself. The answer is I have to increase my rental prices. I won't take the loss. That's not why I bought into this business.

Besides higher rental prices, my tenants are also faced with the same problem I have: the cost of everything they buy went up. So even if they are making more money, how are they ahead?
I have answered the question about 15 dollars vice 25 twice but I cannot do anything about your reading comprehension skills, or lack thereof. (Your own logic would be why not pay one dollar per hour or even in canned food, that would create more jobs.) The premise is primitive.

See again the point about minimum wages increasing consumer demand and not being inflationary if they are below 50% of the medium wage.

As for companies moving out of America, they have been doing that even though America has some of the lowest minimum wages in the developed world.

But most of the American economy is service sector and that cannot move out, it requires the local market to serve.

Right now America is in a deflationary period, service sector wages are low. America needs demand and increasing the minimum wage increases consumer demand. Let alone addresses the grotesque working poverty in America.

15 dollars is well below the empirical evidence that minimum wages can be set without damaging either employment or inflation goals if it is below 50% of the medium wage, which 15 dollars is way under.

US wages are way below where they were in the American golden age of a working middle class in the 50s, 60s and early 70s, they lost ground ever since, this is one step to help repair the damage that primitive and barbaric economic thinking, make workers work ever more for ever less has done not only to the American economy but to the cohesion of an ever fraying and chaotic American society.
You think a low minimum wage has caused fraying in American society? Seriously? That kind of fanciful leap of logic might have won over your college Political Science professor, Jake but it's a load of crap and I think even YOU know it! Our society is "fraying" because we've lost our work ethic...not because we work too much! It's "fraying" because our young take their cues from idiots they listen to in school and on the internet. It's "fraying" because we're obsessed with material goods that we haven't earned...can't afford...but want anyways!
Nope; it is globalization and valuation for the rich but not the poor. CEOs don't get paid on how productive they are but on the valuation of the Firm.

One of the attributes of a successful society is the belief hard work will lead to a better life, the increasing working poverty in the US does indeed lead to social instability, that is basic sociology and history, not a radical theory.

In fact the very election of nationalist demagogue Trump is a result to large degree of a blue collar working class that has seen their standard of living decline dramatically in the last few decades, so they responded to his economic nationalism and sadly were blindly loyal to the delusions of his rhetoric and personality, most poisonous of all the election fraud claims which has severely damaged political process and democracy itself.

Wages, poverty, the shrinking working middle class all have a lot to do with social cohesion.

A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage will not solve all this but it is a civilised step that will increase demand in a currently deflation demand collapse and offer hope to millions working in one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world.
Are you on crack? The US is one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world? Did you seriously just say that? People are literally marching thousands of miles from places like Honduras just to have the chance of taking part in the US economy! They aren't doing that because it's "barbaric"...they're doing it because the US is STILL a place where hard work can make a poor person rich!
You misunderstood, like usual. And, why did anyone come from the old world if not worse conditions there than here.
From the Old World? Many of them came here to escape religious persecution. Many came because of the promise of available land. It wasn't because "conditions" were so great here because quite frankly conditions SUCKED in the Colonies at first! So what is it that you think I "misunderstood", Daniel? I'm a History major. It's a topic I know something about. Am I going to have to school you on it again?
Religious persecution is analogous to economic persecution today.
 

Oldestyle

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I answered the question, you just do not like the answer.
I must have missed the answer and cannot find it, so if you can humor me, one more time: If $15.00 an hour minimum wage is good for the economy, then $25.00 an hour is even better, correct? And if $25.00 an hour is better, then why not make it the best at $30.00 an hour?

The Cleveland point is a good one, of course employers are going to move if they can, if they are not tied to the current market or can export their goods and services to it after moving to the lowest paid labour market they will, hell most American employers are such savages they would only pay in canned food if it were legal.

But that only highlights several issues with the American economy, how a standard national minimum wage is required and the more subtle question what are the effects on demand in those low wage paying economies?
Exactly, now you have it. Employers will react to a huge minimum wage increase. They will move out of the country because all industry would have to pay their workers more money whether they were paying them minimum wage or not.

As a landlord, I try to give my tenants reasonably priced apartments. But what do I do when my costs start increasing? My grocery bill increases greatly. My plumber charges more money for services or repair. Same for my heating guy. Gasoline for lawn and snow removal equipment. Items I need to buy from Home Depot or my local hardware store for things I repair myself. The answer is I have to increase my rental prices. I won't take the loss. That's not why I bought into this business.

Besides higher rental prices, my tenants are also faced with the same problem I have: the cost of everything they buy went up. So even if they are making more money, how are they ahead?
I have answered the question about 15 dollars vice 25 twice but I cannot do anything about your reading comprehension skills, or lack thereof. (Your own logic would be why not pay one dollar per hour or even in canned food, that would create more jobs.) The premise is primitive.

See again the point about minimum wages increasing consumer demand and not being inflationary if they are below 50% of the medium wage.

As for companies moving out of America, they have been doing that even though America has some of the lowest minimum wages in the developed world.

But most of the American economy is service sector and that cannot move out, it requires the local market to serve.

Right now America is in a deflationary period, service sector wages are low. America needs demand and increasing the minimum wage increases consumer demand. Let alone addresses the grotesque working poverty in America.

15 dollars is well below the empirical evidence that minimum wages can be set without damaging either employment or inflation goals if it is below 50% of the medium wage, which 15 dollars is way under.

US wages are way below where they were in the American golden age of a working middle class in the 50s, 60s and early 70s, they lost ground ever since, this is one step to help repair the damage that primitive and barbaric economic thinking, make workers work ever more for ever less has done not only to the American economy but to the cohesion of an ever fraying and chaotic American society.
You think a low minimum wage has caused fraying in American society? Seriously? That kind of fanciful leap of logic might have won over your college Political Science professor, Jake but it's a load of crap and I think even YOU know it! Our society is "fraying" because we've lost our work ethic...not because we work too much! It's "fraying" because our young take their cues from idiots they listen to in school and on the internet. It's "fraying" because we're obsessed with material goods that we haven't earned...can't afford...but want anyways!
Nope; it is globalization and valuation for the rich but not the poor. CEOs don't get paid on how productive they are but on the valuation of the Firm.

One of the attributes of a successful society is the belief hard work will lead to a better life, the increasing working poverty in the US does indeed lead to social instability, that is basic sociology and history, not a radical theory.

In fact the very election of nationalist demagogue Trump is a result to large degree of a blue collar working class that has seen their standard of living decline dramatically in the last few decades, so they responded to his economic nationalism and sadly were blindly loyal to the delusions of his rhetoric and personality, most poisonous of all the election fraud claims which has severely damaged political process and democracy itself.

Wages, poverty, the shrinking working middle class all have a lot to do with social cohesion.

A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage will not solve all this but it is a civilised step that will increase demand in a currently deflation demand collapse and offer hope to millions working in one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world.
Are you on crack? The US is one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world? Did you seriously just say that? People are literally marching thousands of miles from places like Honduras just to have the chance of taking part in the US economy! They aren't doing that because it's "barbaric"...they're doing it because the US is STILL a place where hard work can make a poor person rich!
You misunderstood, like usual. And, why did anyone come from the old world if not worse conditions there than here.
From the Old World? Many of them came here to escape religious persecution. Many came because of the promise of available land. It wasn't because "conditions" were so great here because quite frankly conditions SUCKED in the Colonies at first! So what is it that you think I "misunderstood", Daniel? I'm a History major. It's a topic I know something about. Am I going to have to school you on it again?
Religious persecution is analogous to economic persecution today.
It's not even close, Daniel! Religious persecution back in those days meant being arrested...tortured...even killed and it was happening throughout Europe. Refugees fleeing countries that have been economically devastated by natural disasters or far left governments that put policies above common sense don't approach what religious persecution consisted of back then!
 

marvin martian

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That's why they aren't going to do it. They're going to automate, outsource, or just do without the worker.

Make no mistake, like all DemoKKKrat policies, this is designed to drive people towards welfare, government dependence, and poverty.
What it's designed to do is what a lot of Democrat policies are designed to do: buy votes. The problem is they are too stupid to realize the negative impact it will have on our economy. When it goes to hell, they will be trying to blame Trump for it.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Democrats are stupid in this regard. They aren't. They know exactly what these policies are going to do. They WANT low wage workers out of a job, because it puts them on welfare and sets them up for a lifetime of dependence on the government, which is exactly where Democrats want Americans.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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Don't make the mistake of thinking Democrats are stupid in this regard. They aren't. They know exactly what these policies are going to do. They WANT low wage workers out of a job, because it puts them on welfare and sets them up for a lifetime of dependence on the government, which is exactly where Democrats want Americans.
Which is probably why they are so scared of Trump, they're making idiots out of themselves trying to stop him from coming back. After four years of creepy Joe, people will be counting the days for him to be out of office.
 

Jake Winker Frogen

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As all the empirical economic evidence reveals 15 dollars per hour would not cost jobs or be inflationary, well below the medium wage in every state, including Mississippi the argument against it is ideological, not economic. Based on primitive economic assumptions and gut feelings not economic evidence.

Now America is lost in the whirling storms of it's own emotions, much policy is not rational or beneficial to society as a whole, there will be a lot of opposition to this very rational economic proposal, but if it does get through demand will increase, poverty will decrease and America will be one step closer to the elusive concept known as civilisation.
 

marvin martian

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Don't make the mistake of thinking Democrats are stupid in this regard. They aren't. They know exactly what these policies are going to do. They WANT low wage workers out of a job, because it puts them on welfare and sets them up for a lifetime of dependence on the government, which is exactly where Democrats want Americans.
Which is probably why they are so scared of Trump, they're making idiots out of themselves trying to stop him from coming back. After four years of creepy Joe, people will be counting the days for him to be out of office.
Joe won't see the end of 2021. How his party gets rid of him is the open question, not if.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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Joe won't see the end of 2021. How his party gets rid of him is the open question, not if.
That remains to be seen. Who know how evil really works. Plus we don't know the final conclusion of the Durham investigation, so that's hanging over his head too, along with Hunter's laptop that the FBI has.

Hannity has a two-part interview with the computer repair shop owner. Half was last night and he's going to show the other half tonight. According the store owner, he said Joe's name was mentioned in emails about dealings with China.
 

danielpalos

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I answered the question, you just do not like the answer.
I must have missed the answer and cannot find it, so if you can humor me, one more time: If $15.00 an hour minimum wage is good for the economy, then $25.00 an hour is even better, correct? And if $25.00 an hour is better, then why not make it the best at $30.00 an hour?

The Cleveland point is a good one, of course employers are going to move if they can, if they are not tied to the current market or can export their goods and services to it after moving to the lowest paid labour market they will, hell most American employers are such savages they would only pay in canned food if it were legal.

But that only highlights several issues with the American economy, how a standard national minimum wage is required and the more subtle question what are the effects on demand in those low wage paying economies?
Exactly, now you have it. Employers will react to a huge minimum wage increase. They will move out of the country because all industry would have to pay their workers more money whether they were paying them minimum wage or not.

As a landlord, I try to give my tenants reasonably priced apartments. But what do I do when my costs start increasing? My grocery bill increases greatly. My plumber charges more money for services or repair. Same for my heating guy. Gasoline for lawn and snow removal equipment. Items I need to buy from Home Depot or my local hardware store for things I repair myself. The answer is I have to increase my rental prices. I won't take the loss. That's not why I bought into this business.

Besides higher rental prices, my tenants are also faced with the same problem I have: the cost of everything they buy went up. So even if they are making more money, how are they ahead?
I have answered the question about 15 dollars vice 25 twice but I cannot do anything about your reading comprehension skills, or lack thereof. (Your own logic would be why not pay one dollar per hour or even in canned food, that would create more jobs.) The premise is primitive.

See again the point about minimum wages increasing consumer demand and not being inflationary if they are below 50% of the medium wage.

As for companies moving out of America, they have been doing that even though America has some of the lowest minimum wages in the developed world.

But most of the American economy is service sector and that cannot move out, it requires the local market to serve.

Right now America is in a deflationary period, service sector wages are low. America needs demand and increasing the minimum wage increases consumer demand. Let alone addresses the grotesque working poverty in America.

15 dollars is well below the empirical evidence that minimum wages can be set without damaging either employment or inflation goals if it is below 50% of the medium wage, which 15 dollars is way under.

US wages are way below where they were in the American golden age of a working middle class in the 50s, 60s and early 70s, they lost ground ever since, this is one step to help repair the damage that primitive and barbaric economic thinking, make workers work ever more for ever less has done not only to the American economy but to the cohesion of an ever fraying and chaotic American society.
You think a low minimum wage has caused fraying in American society? Seriously? That kind of fanciful leap of logic might have won over your college Political Science professor, Jake but it's a load of crap and I think even YOU know it! Our society is "fraying" because we've lost our work ethic...not because we work too much! It's "fraying" because our young take their cues from idiots they listen to in school and on the internet. It's "fraying" because we're obsessed with material goods that we haven't earned...can't afford...but want anyways!
Nope; it is globalization and valuation for the rich but not the poor. CEOs don't get paid on how productive they are but on the valuation of the Firm.

One of the attributes of a successful society is the belief hard work will lead to a better life, the increasing working poverty in the US does indeed lead to social instability, that is basic sociology and history, not a radical theory.

In fact the very election of nationalist demagogue Trump is a result to large degree of a blue collar working class that has seen their standard of living decline dramatically in the last few decades, so they responded to his economic nationalism and sadly were blindly loyal to the delusions of his rhetoric and personality, most poisonous of all the election fraud claims which has severely damaged political process and democracy itself.

Wages, poverty, the shrinking working middle class all have a lot to do with social cohesion.

A 15 dollar an hour minimum wage will not solve all this but it is a civilised step that will increase demand in a currently deflation demand collapse and offer hope to millions working in one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world.
Are you on crack? The US is one of the most barbaric economies in the western, developed world? Did you seriously just say that? People are literally marching thousands of miles from places like Honduras just to have the chance of taking part in the US economy! They aren't doing that because it's "barbaric"...they're doing it because the US is STILL a place where hard work can make a poor person rich!
You misunderstood, like usual. And, why did anyone come from the old world if not worse conditions there than here.
From the Old World? Many of them came here to escape religious persecution. Many came because of the promise of available land. It wasn't because "conditions" were so great here because quite frankly conditions SUCKED in the Colonies at first! So what is it that you think I "misunderstood", Daniel? I'm a History major. It's a topic I know something about. Am I going to have to school you on it again?
Religious persecution is analogous to economic persecution today.
It's not even close, Daniel! Religious persecution back in those days meant being arrested...tortured...even killed and it was happening throughout Europe. Refugees fleeing countries that have been economically devastated by natural disasters or far left governments that put policies above common sense don't approach what religious persecution consisted of back then!
Gang wars and corruption due to our alleged war on drugs in foreign countries is similar and economic in nature.
 

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That's why they aren't going to do it. They're going to automate, outsource, or just do without the worker.

Make no mistake, like all DemoKKKrat policies, this is designed to drive people towards welfare, government dependence, and poverty.
What it's designed to do is what a lot of Democrat policies are designed to do: buy votes. The problem is they are too stupid to realize the negative impact it will have on our economy. When it goes to hell, they will be trying to blame Trump for it.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Democrats are stupid in this regard. They aren't. They know exactly what these policies are going to do. They WANT low wage workers out of a job, because it puts them on welfare and sets them up for a lifetime of dependence on the government, which is exactly where Democrats want Americans.
right wing projection? it is right wingers who love to downsize for the bottom line and want to abolish statutory minimum wages, just like in the good old days.
 

danielpalos

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Don't make the mistake of thinking Democrats are stupid in this regard. They aren't. They know exactly what these policies are going to do. They WANT low wage workers out of a job, because it puts them on welfare and sets them up for a lifetime of dependence on the government, which is exactly where Democrats want Americans.
Which is probably why they are so scared of Trump, they're making idiots out of themselves trying to stop him from coming back. After four years of creepy Joe, people will be counting the days for him to be out of office.
Joe won't see the end of 2021. How his party gets rid of him is the open question, not if.
Why do you say that? He won the popular vote.
 

Oldestyle

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As all the empirical economic evidence reveals 15 dollars per hour would not cost jobs or be inflationary, well below the medium wage in every state, including Mississippi the argument against it is ideological, not economic. Based on primitive economic assumptions and gut feelings not economic evidence.

Now America is lost in the whirling storms of it's own emotions, much policy is not rational or beneficial to society as a whole, there will be a lot of opposition to this very rational economic proposal, but if it does get through demand will increase, poverty will decrease and America will be one step closer to the elusive concept known as civilisation.
You struggle with basic economic principles, Jake! One of those is that people tend to buy more of something when it is cheap and less of it when it is expensive. That goes for labor as well as products or services. When labor is inexpensive then employers employ more people or have their existing workers work more hours. When labor is expensive then employers lay off people or have existing workers work less hours. That isn't a "gut feeling"...that's reality! An increase in the minimum wage will result in the people who have the hardest time getting work...the young and the unskilled...being left out of the workforce.
 

danielpalos

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As all the empirical economic evidence reveals 15 dollars per hour would not cost jobs or be inflationary, well below the medium wage in every state, including Mississippi the argument against it is ideological, not economic. Based on primitive economic assumptions and gut feelings not economic evidence.

Now America is lost in the whirling storms of it's own emotions, much policy is not rational or beneficial to society as a whole, there will be a lot of opposition to this very rational economic proposal, but if it does get through demand will increase, poverty will decrease and America will be one step closer to the elusive concept known as civilisation.
You struggle with basic economic principles, Jake! One of those is that people tend to buy more of something when it is cheap and less of it when it is expensive. That goes for labor as well as products or services. When labor is inexpensive then employers employ more people or have their existing workers work more hours. When labor is expensive then employers lay off people or have existing workers work less hours. That isn't a "gut feeling"...that's reality! An increase in the minimum wage will result in the people who have the hardest time getting work...the young and the unskilled...being left out of the workforce.
I would agree with you but for the cost of our endless War on Poverty. Special pleading with microeconomics is just that, an appeal to ignorance of macroeconomics and macroeconomy of the welfare of the United States in general.
 

Oldestyle

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As all the empirical economic evidence reveals 15 dollars per hour would not cost jobs or be inflationary, well below the medium wage in every state, including Mississippi the argument against it is ideological, not economic. Based on primitive economic assumptions and gut feelings not economic evidence.

Now America is lost in the whirling storms of it's own emotions, much policy is not rational or beneficial to society as a whole, there will be a lot of opposition to this very rational economic proposal, but if it does get through demand will increase, poverty will decrease and America will be one step closer to the elusive concept known as civilisation.
You struggle with basic economic principles, Jake! One of those is that people tend to buy more of something when it is cheap and less of it when it is expensive. That goes for labor as well as products or services. When labor is inexpensive then employers employ more people or have their existing workers work more hours. When labor is expensive then employers lay off people or have existing workers work less hours. That isn't a "gut feeling"...that's reality! An increase in the minimum wage will result in the people who have the hardest time getting work...the young and the unskilled...being left out of the workforce.
I would agree with you but for the cost of our endless War on Poverty. Special pleading with microeconomics is just that, an appeal to ignorance of macroeconomics and macroeconomy of the welfare of the United States in general.
Oh, god...another Danielpalos post where you try and sound like you know something about something you obviously know nothing about! Amazing that you can put so much gobbledygook into one sentence! Do you even grasp that made ZERO sense or are you so delusional you actually think you're being intelligent with that gibberish?
 

danielpalos

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As all the empirical economic evidence reveals 15 dollars per hour would not cost jobs or be inflationary, well below the medium wage in every state, including Mississippi the argument against it is ideological, not economic. Based on primitive economic assumptions and gut feelings not economic evidence.

Now America is lost in the whirling storms of it's own emotions, much policy is not rational or beneficial to society as a whole, there will be a lot of opposition to this very rational economic proposal, but if it does get through demand will increase, poverty will decrease and America will be one step closer to the elusive concept known as civilisation.
You struggle with basic economic principles, Jake! One of those is that people tend to buy more of something when it is cheap and less of it when it is expensive. That goes for labor as well as products or services. When labor is inexpensive then employers employ more people or have their existing workers work more hours. When labor is expensive then employers lay off people or have existing workers work less hours. That isn't a "gut feeling"...that's reality! An increase in the minimum wage will result in the people who have the hardest time getting work...the young and the unskilled...being left out of the workforce.
I would agree with you but for the cost of our endless War on Poverty. Special pleading with microeconomics is just that, an appeal to ignorance of macroeconomics and macroeconomy of the welfare of the United States in general.
Oh, god...another Danielpalos post where you try and sound like you know something about something you obviously know nothing about! Amazing that you can put so much gobbledygook into one sentence! Do you even grasp that made ZERO sense or are you so delusional you actually think you're being intelligent with that gibberish?
You have no sense or you would have more than, nothing but fallacy (of argumentum ad hominem).
 

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