Biden 306……Trump 232

[Faun]

It most certainly IS a crime to withhold money.
Trump never did withhold any money from the Ukraine, and we all saw both videos.
Biden clearly threaten to withhold congressional funds from the Ukraine.
Trump NEVER at all threatened to withhold anything from the Ukraine.

Sure he did. The aid was approved by Congress in February and Trump didn't release it until September. And even then, it was only after Zelenskyy agreed to do Trump a "favor" and after a whistleblower exposed him.

The statues violated for trying to get a civil servant fired would be based on local jurisdiction, which is Ukraine law we do not have access to.
But the words "civil servant" have legal meaning.
It means they can not be fired for partisan or corrupt purposes, and that they have to be found guilty of an infraction first, before then can be fired.
Works that way in all countries
It is what "civil servant" means.
{...
If you are a “civil service” worker, you are protected against unfair or unreasonable adverse job actions by management. A “civil service” worker cannot be fired or suspended for more than three days, for example, except for “just cause.”
...}

Civil Service Laws | Law Offices of S. David Worhatch

www.worhatchlaw.com

LOLOLOL

You dumbfuck, Ohio is NOT in Ukraine.

U.S. laws have no bearing on Ukraine. Ukraine laws have no bearing on the U.S.. And even your link, even though it applies to Ohio, states civil servants can be terminated for just cause. Capiche? A conviction is NOT required. And being a corrupt prosecutor, there was just cause to fire Shokin.

 

[Rigby5]

Huh? Can't Congress access classified material?

As far as her server, she said she didn't wipe it clean. Prove her wrong...

Of course Congress normally can NOT access classified material.
Congress is politicians, and almost all politicians could never pass a security clearance.
The only members of Congress who can access classified material are in the special security committee of Congress, who have gotten security clearances or presidential executive privilege.

As far as wiping the server, here is PolitiFact:
{...
Clinton said she deleted the personal emails — "emails about planning Chelsea's wedding or my mother's funeral arrangements, condolence notes to friends as well as yoga routines, family vacations," she said — sometime in the fall of 2014 and sometime after the State Department asked on Oct. 28 for Clinton’s work-related correspondence.

Clinton turned over 55,000 pages of emails and communication relevant to her role as head diplomat to the State Department on Dec. 5. Sometime after that, the entire server was "wiped clean," said Rep. Trey Gowdy, a South Carolina Republican and chairman of the House Benghazi committee, on March 27.
...
The Clinton campaign told us the work-related emails were deleted off the server shortly after they were turned over to the State Department on Dec. 5. They referred us to a letter Clinton’s lawyer David Kendall wrote to Gowdy. The Benghazi committee subpoenaed Clinton’s emails on March 4, 2015, and Gowdy asked for the physical server about two weeks later on March 19.

According to Kendall’s letter, dated March 27, the emails relevant to Benghazi were in the State Department’s possession and the committee had no legal right to the server. What’s more, what Gowdy wanted no longer existed.
...
To recap, Clinton’s private server was wiped clean —technically, filtering out emails older than 60 days — sometime between Dec. 5, 2014, and March 27, 2015. No clearer timeline has been stated.
...}

So then yes Hillary did have her server wiped to not retain anything older than 60 days.

 

[rightwinger]

Denial.

Reality of our voting process as opposed to your stolen election fantasies

 

[Rigby5]

Moron, Gaddafi was killed in a rebellion, not because of Hillary. And any classified intel on her server was there because someone emailed it to her.

Wrong.

Qaddafi was killed in an invasion of foreign mercenaries we hired in Benghazi.
The mercenaries could never have killed Qaddafi if we have not illegally annihilated his forces, when they were on their way to attack Benghazi.
So we clearly were the ones responsible for Qaddafi's murder.
We paid them and they were using our weapons.

And wrong about the classified docs on Hillary's server.
No one sent classified docs to Hillary, and anything sent to her would have been read and deleted.
The classified docs on Hillary's emails were the backup copies of the ones she sent.
That is why Weiner's laptop became important, since they also contained copies of lots of emails sent BY Hillary.
Obviously Weiner had and sent no classified docs.

 

[Lisa558]

Reality of our voting process as opposed to your stolen election fantasies

You skipped right over all the Biden disasters.

And what I said was correct. They didn’t let Republicans observe as they cured the ballots, they had unfolded mail-ins, they didn’t require matching signatures, and they kept trucking in harvested ballots days after the election until they came up with enough.

 

[Billiejeens]

Huh? Can't Congress access classified material?

As far as her server, she said she didn't wipe it clean. Prove her wrong...

Your always wrong, but on shit like this, you are just severely retarded.
It's insane.

 

[Rigby5]

Sure he did. The aid was approved by Congress in February and Trump didn't release it until September. And even then, it was only after Zelenskyy agreed to do Trump a "favor" and after a whistleblower exposed him.



LOLOLOL

You dumbfuck, Ohio is NOT in Ukraine.

U.S. laws have no bearing on Ukraine. Ukraine laws have no bearing on the U.S.. And even your link, even though it applies to Ohio, states civil servants can be terminated for just cause. Capiche? A conviction is NOT required. And being a corrupt prosecutor, there was just cause to fire Shokin.

That is a lie.
Clearly we never hear Trump demanding anything or threatening to withhold anything in the video.
And in fact, Zelensky NEVER did the investigation into Burisma Holdings that Trump wanted, so then clearly there was no extortion as you claimed.
The congressional aid was in the form of a loan guarantee, so would not be paid until the Ukraine actually make the loan.
So it was never withheld at all.

The concept of a civil servant is international.
Each country writes their own laws, just like each state does in the US, but the outcome has to always be the same protected status for civil servants.
They can NOT be arbitrarily fired, and a hearing is required in order to PROVE misconduct.
No such hearing was ever held for Shokin.
There was never any proof of any misconduct.

 

[Rigby5]

Loan guarantees is all they were getting at the time. The president had/has the authority offer/deny these loan guarantees. In your little clip there, Joe even says he told the Ukrainians to give Obama a call if they doubted that he, the VP, was given the authority to speak for the president in the matter. That's how foreign policy works, what they must do to secure our undying support. Why do you ignore this fact and continue to claim a crime was committed?

The US always uses "loan guarantees" in order to delay actual payment of foreign aid, but it makes no difference at all.
Neither the president nor VP have the authority to withhold loan guarantees that Congress has allocated.
While the executive conducts diplomacy, it is illegal to try to get a civil servant fired at all, much less in order to block the investigation into Burisma Holdings.
And the obvious proof of guilt is that still to this day, no one has ever investigated Burisma Holdings.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. 306 to 232, and Biden only wind 450 counties....lol!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[Faun]

Of course Congress normally can NOT access classified material.
Congress is politicians, and almost all politicians could never pass a security clearance.
The only members of Congress who can access classified material are in the special security committee of Congress, who have gotten security clearances or presidential executive privilege.

As far as wiping the server, here is PolitiFact:
{...
Clinton said she deleted the personal emails — "emails about planning Chelsea's wedding or my mother's funeral arrangements, condolence notes to friends as well as yoga routines, family vacations," she said — sometime in the fall of 2014 and sometime after the State Department asked on Oct. 28 for Clinton’s work-related correspondence.

Clinton turned over 55,000 pages of emails and communication relevant to her role as head diplomat to the State Department on Dec. 5. Sometime after that, the entire server was "wiped clean," said Rep. Trey Gowdy, a South Carolina Republican and chairman of the House Benghazi committee, on March 27.
...
The Clinton campaign told us the work-related emails were deleted off the server shortly after they were turned over to the State Department on Dec. 5. They referred us to a letter Clinton’s lawyer David Kendall wrote to Gowdy. The Benghazi committee subpoenaed Clinton’s emails on March 4, 2015, and Gowdy asked for the physical server about two weeks later on March 19.

According to Kendall’s letter, dated March 27, the emails relevant to Benghazi were in the State Department’s possession and the committee had no legal right to the server. What’s more, what Gowdy wanted no longer existed.
...
To recap, Clinton’s private server was wiped clean —technically, filtering out emails older than 60 days — sometime between Dec. 5, 2014, and March 27, 2015. No clearer timeline has been stated.
...}

So then yes Hillary did have her server wiped to not retain anything older than 60 days.

Putz, it was committees who were conducting the investigations. Of course they could access classified material. Kinda blows up your bullshit.

And you failed to prove Hillary wiped her server. Her claim, was that she instructed a technician to wipe it clean a year earlier, but that technician neglected to do so. A year later, in what he described as an "oh shit" moment, is when he wiped it clean. And you have no proof that's not true. That's why she wasn't charged. No proof.

 

[Faun]

The US always uses "loan guarantees" in order to delay actual payment of foreign aid, but it makes no difference at all.
Neither the president nor VP have the authority to withhold loan guarantees that Congress has allocated.
While the executive conducts diplomacy, it is illegal to try to get a civil servant fired at all, much less in order to block the investigation into Burisma Holdings.
And the obvious proof of guilt is that still to this day, no one has ever investigated Burisma Holdings.

You keep claiming it's illegal to get a civil servant fired but you can't site any such statute.

 

[Kilroy2]

That is what the 2024 election comes down to.
Trump must somehow flip those numbers to reach 270.

The key to those numbers are the states of Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. States which Trump won in 2016 but lost in 2020.
Add in Nevada and N Carolina as possible states that could possibly flip.

All the remaining States are set as being for Biden or for Trump and are not in play.

Trump has done little to try to flip those key states and if anything, is doing worse than in 2020.

So…..what is Trumps path to victory in 2024?

Jail break as we know America is fixated on criminals. Trump popularity will slightly increase once convicted. I am not saying he will win but people will still vote for him. The law and order bunch will float the idea "Do as I say, not as I do."

Which will be incorporated into the MAGA principle.

 

[Faun]

That is a lie.
Clearly we never hear Trump demanding anything or threatening to withhold anything in the video.
And in fact, Zelensky NEVER did the investigation into Burisma Holdings that Trump wanted, so then clearly there was no extortion as you claimed.
The congressional aid was in the form of a loan guarantee, so would not be paid until the Ukraine actually make the loan.
So it was never withheld at all.

I didn't say Trump threatened Zelenskyy. I said he withheld the aid until Zelenskyy agree to Trump's "favor." He obviously did. The aid was approved by Congress in February, Trump's "perfect" call with Zelenskyy was in July, and Trump released the aid in September.

The congressional aid was in the form of a loan guarantee, so would not be paid until the Ukraine actually make the loan.
So it was never withheld at all.

Now THAT'S what a lie actually looks like. The aid was a $400 million military package; NOT guaranteed loans.

The concept of a civil servant is international.
Each country writes their own laws, just like each state does in the US, but the outcome has to always be the same protected status for civil servants.
They can NOT be arbitrarily fired, and a hearing is required in order to PROVE misconduct.
No such hearing was ever held for Shokin.
There was never any proof of any misconduct.

LOLOL

There is no international concept of protecting civil servants' jobs. Most countries have no such laws at all. And there is no such law in Ukraine which is applicable to people in the U.S..

You're making shit up as you go along. That's the reason you can't site any statutes. There are none which apply.

 

[BlindBoo]

The US always uses "loan guarantees" in order to delay actual payment of foreign aid, but it makes no difference at all.

Only if the borrower defaults on the loan do we the tax payers have to pony up, like was the case with Saddam Hussein and the loan guarantees given by the Ray Gun Administration in the early days of our support for Saddam. It does make a difference. By law the president has great discretion in how the money is allocated.

much less in order to block the investigation into Burisma Holdings.
And the obvious proof of guilt is that still to this day, no one has ever investigated Burisma Holdings.

In reality it was the former owner of Burisma who was under investigation for alleged crimes committed while the Ukraine was still aliened with Russia. Before Biden was offered a job. Furthermore, the US, the EU and the IMF all accused the prosecutor of not investigating the guy and taking bribes to look the other way.

 

[BlindBoo]

The congressional aid was in the form of a loan guarantee

Military aid is not a loan guarantee.

 

[MagicMike]

YES it DOES "apply here"!!!
That is the whole point.
It has been proven there was no election collusion except by the fraudulent Steele Dossier.
It has been proven Trump did not coerce the Ukraine by illegal withholding Congressional funding, but Joe Biden did when VP.
And anyone who reads any classified doc laws knows they are presidential executive orders which ex-presidents are exempt from.
So then these attempts at prosecution are totally illegal.

Well then the orange golf boy shouldn't have any trouble at all convincing juries in his upcoming trials that he's actually completely innocent right?

 

[MagicMike]

Do you understand the difference?
Hillary was illegally funneling money and weapons to ISIS in Benghazi, in order to attack Assad.
And not only was it illegal for Hillary to have classified docs, but she put them on an unencrypted private email server.

Not according to the FBI.
Here is the part where you say something along the lines of "that's because the FBI is corrupt."
Yawn.

 

[MagicMike]

Wrong.
The failed impeachments condemn those who failed, which is Congress.
Trump was exonerated by the failed impeachments.

Trump's covid response was the only correct one, and clearly is it was Fauci who failed, trying to "flatten the curve" until the fake mRNA injections could fail.

It is a lie to claim Trump was "held liable for sexual assault".
Trump lost in civil court over slander allegations.

The classified doc claims obviously are illegal.
Anyone who has ever read any of the classified doc laws knows they are all presidential executive orders, that exempt all presidents and ex-presidents.
Just ask yourself, did England return all the Manhattan Project documents when Truman left office?
Of course not.
That is because executive privilege never goes away.

It must be awful dark with your head crammed so far up there.

 

[MagicMike]

Wrong.
The failed impeachments condemn those who failed, which is Congress.
Trump was exonerated by the failed impeachments.

Trump's covid response was the only correct one, and clearly is it was Fauci who failed, trying to "flatten the curve" until the fake mRNA injections could fail.

It is a lie to claim Trump was "held liable for sexual assault".
Trump lost in civil court over slander allegations.

The classified doc claims obviously are illegal.
Anyone who has ever read any of the classified doc laws knows they are all presidential executive orders, that exempt all presidents and ex-presidents.
Just ask yourself, did England return all the Manhattan Project documents when Truman left office?
Of course not.
That is because executive privilege never goes away.

It must be awful dark with your head crammed so far up there.

Russia collusion?

Plenty of it in The Mueller Report.

 

[MagicMike]

I think people are sick and tired of the bullshit, Mike! I watched a week of CNN and didn't see a single reference to the influence peddling scandal that's engulfed the Biden Presidency! Hundreds of millions of dollars flowing into the Biden family's coffers from some of the sleaziest people on the planet but the left pretends it never happened. For all the bluster coming from people like you? Trump isn't the criminal...it's Joe Biden and his family...what they've done for decades is TEXT BOOK influence peddling!

Ok.
Let's prosecute POTUS #45 first before we get around to #46.