Best response ever to the stupidest question ever: Does Israel have the right to exist?

[Rigby5]

???? Did you commit a mass murder raid?

Totally wrong.
The mass murder happened from 1946 to 1948, when Menachim Begins terrorist gangs, Irgun, Stern, and Lehi murdered the British peacekeepers in the King David Hotel bombing, and then massacred hundreds of native villages like Deir Yassin.

Its all well documented. Look it up.

So Hamas is more than justified to retaliate with the taking of hostages.
Already 85% of Palestine has been stolen, millions of native Palestinians murdered or illegally imprisoned.

 

[Rigby5]

Do you ignore that the Hams fighters committed a mass murder raid on October 7.

Wrong.
It was a desperate attempt to prevent being murdered by the illegal starvation blockade.
More than justified.
All Israelis known they never paid for any of the homes they occupy.
They are all complicit.

 

[Rigby5]

Your point? The fact that Greta and friends want to create a spectacle does not provide evidence that there is starvation currently occurring in Gaza. They even admit that they are not delivering aid but "raising awareness".

Israel has every right under the international law of self-defense to inspect ships intending to arrive in territory under its control in a just war. If said ships refuse inspection, Israel has every right to prevent passage. (And it seems likely it was Israel, doesn't it? Why? Because the ship was disabled, passage prevented, and yet not a single person was injured.)

WRONG!
The coast of Palestine is NOT in "territory under its control in a just war".
The starvation blockade is totally illegal and going on for decades.
No ship has ever "refused inspection", but Israel does not allow any ships through.

 

[Rigby5]

Of course it sickens me. Millions of infants die in the first year of their lives around the world, including due to malnourishment by various causes such as premature birth, failure to thrive, medical conditions, disease, inadequate health care, and yes, war. It is horrific.

There is no evidence that this is happening currently in Gaza due to the war nor due to Israel's actions in the war. There is no starvation in Gaza. There IS evidence, however, that Hamas creates propaganda using children with chronic illnesses to demonize Israel. (And it is despicable to use sick children in this way).

If you could prove to me that there is starvation happening in Gaza, and if you could prove the reason for the starvation was inadequate quantities of food, I would condemn it in the strongest possible terms. I just don't think it is happening.

That is absurd.
Why would Israel impose the illegal blockade on Palestine if not to cause mass starvation?
And the illegal blockade is well known.
Why else would peace ships try to break the blockade and get fired on, if not to ensure starvation of the natives?
Why did the US overturn the elected leadership of President Morsi in Egypt, if not to ensure the dictatorship of General Sisi would impose its share of the illegal starvation blockade?

 

[Rigby5]

They have it, for letting Hamas leading mass murder raids.

Wrong.
The illegal starvation blockade has been going on for decades, and all Israelis know about it and are complicit, to what Hamas did was well deserved.
The only problem is it was not enough, and Hamas still does not have the weapons to counter the hundreds of billions worth of the latest US weapons we illegally gave to Israel.

 

[Rigby5]

They have it, for letting Hamas leading mass murder raids.

What you are saying is like blaming the French Resistance for WWII.
The Palestinians are totally innocent.
They never started any violence, and they never had any weapons.
All the weapons and violence come from Israel and the US.

 

[Rigby5]

Hamas is fully justified in anything it can do,

Wow.

has stolen over 85% of Palestine

Israel didn't steal any land from the Ottoman Empire.

Wrong.
The Palestinians helped Lawrence of Arabia in WWI, against the Ottoman Empire.
And in return the British promised Palestine independence.
An independent Palestine was then written into the Treaty of San Remo and the Treaty of Sevres, in 1920.
So Palestine has been an independent country since 1920, and no longer part of the Ottoman Empire.

But there was no Israel or Israelis in 1922 when the British conducted a census.
The Zionists did not illegal get smuggled into Palestine until the 1940s and 1950s.
There is nothing remotely legal about Israel.
Truman claimed to have created Israel in 1948 by a UN decree, but the UN has no such authority.
Israel is mostly Polish and Russian, criminal, invaders.

 

[Rigby5]

As long as the Arabs keep trying to genocide the Jews, the Arabs are going to die.

Israel and the Jews will be here 500 years from now, their capitol in Jerusalem, as Hamas continues to melt in their grave.

Wrong.
When the Hebrew originally invaded the Land of Canaan around 1000 BC, they only lasted about 200 years before being defeated and removed by the Assyrians.
Why?
Because anyone claiming to be the "Chosen People" are evil, arrogant, and dangerous.
That is why when the Hebrew tried to regain a kingdom, they were sequentially defeated by all their neighbors. The Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Seleucids, Romans, etc. all had enough of the arrogant "Chosen People", and made them leave.

All legitimate countries have long standing native populations that do things like build buildings, roads, harbors, stadiums, etc.
But there was nothing ever built by the Hebrew.
They were shepards, and knew nothing about science, architecture, or even how to write.
The Hebrew did not have a script until the Romans created one for them around 100 BC.

The Hebrew had zero effect on history.
You can't name a single thing of any significance they actually did, other than massacring the Canaanite women and children in Jericho, around the year 1000 BC.

If you want to give them credit for the Bible, you would be wrong.
That was created by the Byzantine Romans around 200 AD to 400 AD.

 

[Rigby5]

Hamas has never stood a chance. Neither have the Arabs.

Israel forever. Jerusalem a Jewish capitol. No right of return.

It is over for Hamas. It is on for the Jews for a thousand years.

Wrong.
The Zionist mentality of Israel is criminal and can't be allowed.
I am Jewish.
I know what Judaism actually tells us to do.
And in 160 AD, the Rabbinical Counsel ordered Jews to follow the Diaspora Decree.
Their problem was that since they were once again defeated by the Romans, that clearly they were doing something wrong.
Instead of questioning if there was a god or whether they were the "Chosen", they decided they were being punished by god for being too arrogant and prideful.
So all REAL Jews follow the Diaspora Decree, where they are supposed to leave the Mideast and not return until the coming of the Messiah is proof they have been forgiven their sins.
So Zionism is more than just illegal, it is sacrilege desecrating thousands of years of penance by real Jews.
Zionists are Polish and Russian pretenders, who are not really Jewish at all.
They are Khazar converts from around 900 AD.

 

[Rigby5]

Yeah, but that's Islam for you, eh?

Islam is the only religion that never is guilty of genocide.
There is not a single instance of Arab Moslems attacking anyone.

It is Judaism that started genocide.
When the Hebrew left Egypt and invaded the Land of Canaan, it was the Jews who massacred all the Canaanites, including woman and children in Jericho.

It is Christianity that is guilt of genocide, like the Jews the Crusaders massacred.
Like the Jews the Inquisitions massacred.
Like the natives the Christian Conquistadors murdered.

If you are going to try to bring up things like the Turks attacking Europe, that would be wrong, because the Mongols had totally wiped out the Moslem leadership in Baghdad in 1200 AD, and the Turks were part of the Mongol invasion.
They were not Arab Moslems.
Same is true of the Moghuls invading India.
They were part of the Mongol invasion, and not Arab Moslems.

 

[Rigby5]

Your understanding is nonsense when it comes to October 7.

You support mass murder.

Wrong!

Why is it so hard to understand, that after Israel had murdered hundreds of thousands of native Palestinians for over 70 years, illegally imprisoned tens of millions more, and stolen the homes of 90% of the Palestinians, that anything then is justified in order to free the Palestinians held hostage by Israel, and get the millions of native Palestinians back in their homes.

October 7th is not only more than justified, but is 70 years over due.

 

[Rigby5]

You are unable or refuse to articulate what you mean by "order" and how you differentiate it from "law". You might at the least give me the charity of letting me know if you intend the verb or the noun.

And again, please refer back to the original claim, which is that States have no rights in law, but have rights in "order".

You clearly do not understand what law is.
Law is what is inherently right, and is NOT mere legislation.
Legislation is often wrong, like slavery was legal according to mere "legislation".
But slavery can never really be legal no matter what legislation says, because it violates the basic principle that you should not deliberately harm others except in defense.

The constitution then created no rights either, but just created high abstractions for the purpose of separating state from federal jurisdictions.

No government ever has any "rights".
Only individuals have "rights", and government gains authority by individuals delegating their legal authority created by their inherent rights, so that the rights of individuals can then be defended by these layers of government.

This should be obvious using the American Revolution as an example.
The revolution was justified, not by legislation, but by the British abuse of individual rights.
And it is individual rights that then allowed the American rebels to create a new government.
So rights can't possibly come from government, since no government existed until the rebels create a new one.

 

[Rigby5]

Hondo does not understand words.

He supports Hamas.

He is a deranged person.

Wrong.
Hamas is the duly elected representatives of a population of 13 million Palestinian natives who are being illegally murdered, imprisoned, expelled, their homes stolen, etc.
There then is not limit to what they can and should do in order to get their rights back.

In contrast, the Israelis have no justification for even being there, since their homelands are places like Poland and Russia.
Do you know where bagels and matzo come from?
They come from Poland and Russia.
No one grows wheat in the Mideast, since it takes too much land and water.

Any person with any morals at all has to support Hamas, since they are the desperate natives who the Zionists attacked first, without any justification.

 

[Rigby5]

You are using nonsense words. Contract law is law. What? Are you going to call your orderyer when you are sued for breach of contract?

Totally wrong.
Hondo is correctly differentiating between written legislation, which is often deliberately wrong by corrupt governments, and real abstract law, which is based on the natural order of things.
In the natural order of things, you do not steal, murder, or rape, like Israel has consistently done for over 70 years.

There was an Israel from around 1000 BC to 800 BC, but it was evil, created by invaders who massacred Canaanite women and children.
The history of the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Seleucids, and Romans all document how evil the Jews were back then.
And while most Jews are adhering to their state of contrition for past Jewish crimes, the Zionists are not.
They are evil because they are nullifying the past 2000 years of Jewish atonement for those original sins.
And clearly the Israelis Jews are not from the Mideast and do not belong in the Mideast.
The original Jews were Arabs.
The Zionist Israeli Jews are Khazars who converted around 900 AD, and have no right to anything in the Mideast.
Just look at any Israeli, and they clearly do not look like Arabs, so are not really related to the Arab Hebrew at all.

 

[Rigby5]

You are lying. You support mass murder.

Mass murder is always justified in defense after 70 years of much greater mass murder.
Do you deny that the mass murder of things like firestorms against German cities were justified in WWII?
Do you deny the mass murder of firestorms and atomics against Japanese cities were justified in WWII?

Clearly what Israel has done, the theft of 85% of Palestine, and the murder of hundreds of thousands of native Palestinians, justified anything anyone can do.

 

[Shusha]

You clearly do not understand what law is.
Law is what is inherently right, and is NOT mere legislation.

Eyeroll. Words have actual meanings. International law is not "legislation". There are two primary sources of international law. 1. Treaty law, where States agree to be bound by the conditions outlined within the treaty itself. 2. Customary law, where repeated actions by States lead to "customs" which become recognized.

"Inherently right" is an ill-defined concept. Your own words prove this. You claim that any and all actions committed by the people of Gaza against Israel are justified (inherently right). You mean to say, then, that strangling babies and mutilating their bodes is "inherently right". You mean to say, then, that raping women is "inherently right". You mean to say, then, that taking hostages is "inherently right". I most vehemently disagree.

 

[Rigby5]

Not so. Treaties and other agreements are instruments of law.

Wrong.
Treaties are commercial contracts, and often are not based on law and even pervert law.
Like NATO is treaty based, but still illegally promotes mass murder in Palestine, the Ukraine, etc.
The reality is that NATO started as the evil colonial imperialists who deliberately caused WWI and WWII.

 

[Rigby5]

I fully support the sovereignty of all indigenous peoples, in all places where they seek it.

That is a lie.
If you supported the sovereignty of all indigenous people, then you would support Hamas instead of the evil illegal immigrant invaders of Israel.
The Israelis exceeded the immigration quotas by over a factor of 100, and smuggled in weapons they used to murder hundreds of thousands of native Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

That is a lie.
If you supported the sovereignty of all indigenous people...

I support the sovereignty (self-determination) of all indigenous peoples. Indigeneity has a clear and understandable meaning that can be applied reasonably to all peoples. The Jewish people are indigenous to the lands of Israel, Judea, and Samaria.

 

[Rigby5]

You are conflating a peoples with a State and deliberately misunderstanding or misinterpreting my comments. Of course, American Indians exist as a people with cultural, ethnic, and national identities. American Indians do not have a State. (Though the Haudenosaunee government issues passports which are recognized by some States, indicating they have some recognition as sovereign.) American Indians could have a State, should they make treaty negotiations with respective States for territory and secession.

Just so, as I've already mentioned and you perverted, the Arabs could have a State of Palestine by entering into negotiations to secede from Israel and sign a border treaty.

Wrong again.
The native Americans all had legitimate governments.
For example, the Iroquois Nation was federation of 7 tribes that the US founders used as a model for the US federation of states.

The native Americans did negotiate treaties, but the only problem is the US violated all of them, and deliberately committed genocide by doing things like causing mass starvation by wiping out their food sources, like the buffalo.

And you really do not know any history.
Palestine existed first in 1920, by the treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres.
Israel was created much later in n1948, by massive genocide against the natives.
Palestine can't "secede" from Israel when Palestine predated Israel by nearly 50 years, and Israel is a totally criminal invader guilty of massive war crimes.
Palestine has a population of 13 million, and they are all natives.
Israel has a population of 6.5 million, and only about 30k are natives.