Zone1 Behavioral Sink and Suffering

[Woodznutz]

These are good kids,

No they're not.

 

[ding]

I didn't want their respect.

That bad. You didn't want their respect that bad.

 

[ding]

So God is making us suffer for our own good?

Wow, that's messed up.

No, your characterization is messed up.

 

[ding]

Seems to me that a God who lets good people suffer and bad people prosper isn't a just God or a good God.

Maimonides responds:

"MEN frequently think that the evils in the world are more numerous than the good things, that just isn't the case. It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils." Maimonides

 

[ding]

Seems to me that a God who lets good people suffer and bad people prosper isn't a just God or a good God.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church responds:

But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better. But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world "in a state of journeying" towards its ultimate perfection. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection.

For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.

In time we can discover that God in his almighty providence can bring a good from the consequences of an evil, even a moral evil, caused by his creatures: "It was not you", said Joseph to his brothers, "who sent me here, but God. . . You meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive." From the greatest moral evil ever committed - the rejection and murder of God's only Son, caused by the sins of all men - God, by his grace that "abounded all the more", brought the greatest of goods: the glorification of Christ and our redemption. But for all that, evil never becomes a good.

Joe, what you intend for evil, God is using for good.

 

[JoeB131]

You have been separated from the God that made you is all as he is the source of all life.

What then happens if you reject such a God?

Last time I checked, my parents made me.

Seems like your God is a petty narcissist, if he only cares about people born in one part of the world, and only those who sufficiently kiss his cosmic backside.

 

[Meriweather]

That bad. You didn't want their respect that bad.

Are you serious?

 

[Hafar1014]

This is true. What I have also noticed that may be related to how children react to Adverse Childhood Experiences, or what they, as a child, perceive as adverse. I am sure it cannot be a hundred percent, but what is noticeable that children of faith are less likely to have these issues. I am speaking of any faith, but where I teach there is a broad spectrum of faiths: Judaism, Muslim, Christianity, and Hindu. Every so often, Buddhist. Have you noticed that in your line of work?

ITs faith with moral values like Christianity and Judaism which are taken the 10 Commandments. I believe two parent families are the real foundation of healthy child development. Gays included but in their case adoption creates different set of problems

 

[Votto]

Last time I checked, my parents made me.

Seems like your God is a petty narcissist, if he only cares about people born in one part of the world, and only those who sufficiently kiss his cosmic backside.

Well, that is a rather funny assertion, that is, God is a narcissist.

After all, if there really is a God and really is the source of everything, including the parents who helped you get here, it really is all about Him, isn't it.

The very fact that God has chosen to create beings that may reject him and reject the notion that it is really about him, which is just the reality of the situation, is what is actually mind blowing to me.

 

[ding]

Are you serious?

Yes. It wasn't meant to be negative. You didn't want their respect bad enough to compromise your standard and let it negatively affect the other students.

Some people want to be liked so much that they will compromise their standards in order to be liked. God is most definitely NOT in that camp.

 

[Meriweather]

Ah, the afterlife bullshit.

Yes, your "eternal" life will be entirely determined by the 0-80 years you spent on planet Earth, and if you don't worship the right sky pixie or make bad decisions based on the circumstances of your life, you will be eternally punished.

Burning in hell for all eternity or praising God for all eternity, they both sound kind of tedious.

What is your philosophy? It has been said that the act of doing transforms one's belief system. Love is usually given as a primary example.

Do: Love God and all that love entails.
Then: Comes the belief system.

The choice to hate/condemn God has become your belief system.

Recall that Catholic teaching is that one chooses heaven (life with God) or hell (life without God). Your belief becomes your creation--hence your future creation/life for yourself, which, for you, seems to be burning in hell for all of eternity. You are thinking it will take upwards toward 80 years for you to finish your own creation. God is creator. He made us in His image--i.e., creators. Will you enjoy what you have created for yourself?

 

[Meriweather]

Yes. It wasn't meant to be negative. You didn't want their respect bad enough to compromise your standard and let it negatively affect the other students.

Some people want to be liked so much that they will compromise their standards in order to be liked. God is most definitely NOT in that camp.

What may have been missed is that I wrote these were students who seem to like me (I don't pretend to know all). Remember, after our short (twinkling) conversation, the students didn't take up sulking--they returned to completing their lesson. This being the result, I'm guessing I already had the students' respect--and retained it--by standing by my priorities, and the school rules for that matter.

The point is my goal is not to be liked or respected. My goal is to present each lesson to the best of my ability, and I have to work incredibly hard to succeed with each simple lesson. I have no energy left to work at being liked or respected. I guess that is why I am amazed by the number of students who tell me I am their favorite, and the best of their substitute teachers. And all without me saying, "Sure, go and play your computer games instead"--which I know are not that good for them. That's how much I respect (yes, and even love) their tender, growing minds. Loving, respecting them is my priority, to the extent their love/respect for me is insignificant in how I do my job.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, that is a rather funny assertion, that is, God is a narcissist.

After all, if there really is a God and really is the source of everything, including the parents who helped you get here, it really is all about Him, isn't it.

The operative word there is "IF". What IF the Shintos are right, the world was created by Amaterasu Omikami, and in the afterlife, she wants to have a word with me about my Asian women fetish?

The very fact that God has chosen to create beings that may reject him and reject the notion that it is really about him, which is just the reality of the situation, is what is actually mind blowing to me.

Um, not really. That kind of makes God come off like a Batman Villain. Like in that movie where The Joker has put bombs on two boats and given each boat the trigger to blow up the other boat? Make the wrong choice, and you are damned. But no one tells you what the right choice really is.

What is your philosophy? It has been said that the act of doing transforms one's belief system. Love is usually given as a primary example.

Okay.
I love my family.
I love my wife
I love my country.

Those are all tangible things that I know exist.

Do: Love God and all that love entails.
Then: Comes the belief system.

The choice to hate/condemn God has become your belief system.

No, I just don't believe in him. What I hate/condemn are all you Ned Flanders types who want to impose your beliefs on the rest of us.

Recall that Catholic teaching is that one chooses heaven (life with God) or hell (life without God). Your belief becomes your creation--hence your future creation/life for yourself, which, for you, seems to be burning in hell for all of eternity. You are thinking it will take upwards toward 80 years for you to finish your own creation. God is creator. He made us in His image--i.e., creators. Will you enjoy what you have created for yourself?

Well, first and foremost, our images of Hell have more to do with Dante and Milton than the Bible, which is rather vague on the subject.

If you strictly read the bible, very, very, very few people are going to get into heaven, regardless. So if you are going to end up going to Hell anyway, might as well enjoy yourself while you can. Frankly, all versions of the afterlife sound pretty boring.

 

[Meriweather]

No, I just don't believe in him. What I hate/condemn are all you Ned Flanders types who want to impose your beliefs on the rest of us.

Shrug. I've never imposed my beliefs on anyone--nor have I ever met anyone who has. I don't know that is such a positive thing. What I do know is that I am no evangelist.

Come to think of it, I have imposed my belief that math is important on any number of students. And I stand by that.

 

[Meriweather]

If you strictly read the bible, very, very, very few people are going to get into heaven, regardless. So if you are going to end up going to Hell anyway, might as well enjoy yourself while you can.

We need God. That fights against one's determination/battle not to need anyone but oneself. I am really good at that battle. I hope I lose.

 

[Votto]

The operative word there is "IF". What IF the Shintos are right, the world was created by Amaterasu Omikami, and in the afterlife, she wants to have a word with me about my Asian women fetish?



Um, not really. That kind of makes God come off like a Batman Villain. Like in that movie where The Joker has put bombs on two boats and given each boat the trigger to blow up the other boat? Make the wrong choice, and you are damned. But no one tells you what the right choice really is.



Okay.
I love my family.
I love my wife
I love my country.

Those are all tangible things that I know exist.



No, I just don't believe in him. What I hate/condemn are all you Ned Flanders types who want to impose your beliefs on the rest of us.



Well, first and foremost, our images of Hell have more to do with Dante and Milton than the Bible, which is rather vague on the subject.

If you strictly read the bible, very, very, very few people are going to get into heaven, regardless. So if you are going to end up going to Hell anyway, might as well enjoy yourself while you can. Frankly, all versions of the afterlife sound pretty boring.

Again, either God is the force behind all that exists or he is not and the source behind all life that lives

If he is, then it is not narcissistic to say that he is at the center of it all, rather, it is simply the reality of the situation.

In fact, the reverse is true, that is, it is narcissistic for you to imagine that you are at the center of it all, or that something else is.

It is no small wonder then, that people like yourself are constantly trying to deny reality, such as the sex you were born, or the fact that the unborn child really is living. It is a constant war against the said reality that makes you bitter, angry, and so unhappy with a never-ending call for "revolution". It is why you dance around like animals with glee once you blow the head off someone who offends the said false reality that you have created.

But no one is forcing anything upon you in terms of who and what God is, except maybe Islam that refuses to divorce their religion from their government. Yet is is only Christians you hate.

As for your rant about love, you say that love really exists? No it doesn't, that is, from a scientific perspective. From a scientific perspective love is nothing more than a complex series of chemical reactions in the brain used to help foment your own self-preservation and the preservation of your species. In and of itself, it does not really exist.

But from a position of faith, love is really the only thing that is real in this never ending changing temporal world. It is the only thing that is eternal. In addition, love is the only thing that really matters.

 

[DennisPTate]

Years ago, a scientist, using mice, was working to understand the effects of over-population. The mice were given everything else they needed or a mouse could want. Yet within five years, the mice had become disinterested in taking care of their young, in socialization, in mating, in any other mouse and became extinct. This was used as a warning against over population humanity could face, is facing in some areas. Some take this theory seriously, others have their doubts.

I see it a bit differently. Over population was not the only aspect I see in this study. I see the mice were given everything they needed/wanted. Was over-population the only variable at work, or was the fact there was no suffering or hard-work in this rodent population contributing to the disinterest mice had developed towards the other mice, including their own children?

An issue that surfaces in a number of threads here in the religion forum, is God is a cruel meanie. The evidence: The amount of suffering in this world. However, could suffering be playing an integral part in the good health of human existence? What say you, especially those of you who assert God is cruel and mean?

Wow!

This is a truly deep and quite encouraging idea.

We humans do need to realize that we are struggling against serious opposition but that our lives are fulfilling a profound purpose.

We are up against something pretty huge even with our own human ego, [and the invisible spiritual beings that influence us toward wasting our lives].

14. What is ego?​

Ego is that thing that helps us learn what LOVE is by showing us what it is not. All things on Earth must come to a place of balance. All things must have a parallel. This is how we are each caused to grow spiritually. Just as a face (due to gravity) may wrinkle with time, so does a soul become weighed down with ego. Ego is always LOVE’S opposite. Love raises vibration and ego lowers it. Ego is a mental essence that each of us is made to endure for as long as we walk the planet. Ego is that thing that tells us in our mind, “No you can’t do that … because you’re not talented, thin, good-looking, wealthy, intelligent, young, strong, interesting or intuitive ENOUGH!” This is the voice of the liar. The liar is the voice of ego. Let me put it this way: wherever there is separation, condemnation, self-doubt, lack-mentality, bitterness, hostility or segregation … you can best be sure ego is not far behind.

Ego wants to keep you earthbound and heavenless for as long as it can. It is an essence that has been sent here to learn just as you have. However, it has a duty to challenge each of us and cause us to learn as it learns for itself. There is nothing to fear about the ego. It is just a fragile, spoiled child that screams and rants until it gets what it wants. And like any child, if you ignore it during its temper flare long enough, sooner or later it will get the message that those kinds of methods are not productive and will not yield positive results.

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[JoeB131]

Again, either God is the force behind all that exists or he is not and the source behind all life that lives

If he is, then it is not narcissistic to say that he is at the center of it all, rather, it is simply the reality of the situation.

In fact, the reverse is true, that is, it is narcissistic for you to imagine that you are at the center of it all, or that something else is.

Who says anything is at the center of it all? The problem here is that you assume a god is necessary to the operation of the universe, when it really isn't.

It is no small wonder then, that people like yourself are constantly trying to deny reality, such as the sex you were born, or the fact that the unborn child really is living. It is a constant war against the said reality that makes you bitter, angry, and so unhappy with a never-ending call for "revolution". It is why you dance around like animals with glee once you blow the head off someone who offends the said false reality that you have created.

The only people I see rejoicing at death are you guys, whether it be Rob Reiner for hurting your feelings or some poor Venezuelan Fisherman.

But reality- Zygotes aren't people, and some people are born with a disconnect between their brains and their bodies.

But no one is forcing anything upon you in terms of who and what God is, except maybe Islam that refuses to divorce their religion from their government. Yet is is only Christians you hate.

I don't see Muslims putting an objectively horrible human being like Trump in charge because he'll let you ban abortions and gender-affirming care.

As for your rant about love, you say that love really exists? No it doesn't, that is, from a scientific perspective. From a scientific perspective love is nothing more than a complex series of chemical reactions in the brain used to help foment your own self-preservation and the preservation of your species. In and of itself, it does not really exist.

Perhaps. But there's no need for a sky pixie in that equation. This is more the need for the familiar that is chemically wired into the brains of humans (and other animals, to be sure.)

But from a position of faith, love is really the only thing that is real in this never ending changing temporal world. It is the only thing that is eternal. In addition, love is the only thing that really matters.

Yeah, hearing a Trump supporter talk about love is like taking cooking tips from Jeff Dahmner.

 

[Hafar1014]

Well, that is a rather funny assertion, that is, God is a narcissist.

After all, if there really is a God and really is the source of everything, including the parents who helped you get here, it really is all about Him, isn't it.

The very fact that God has chosen to create beings that may reject him and reject the notion that it is really about him, which is just the reality of the situation, is what is actually mind blowing to me.

Why would you prefer the life of an ant obedient to the queen with no free will

 

[Hafar1014]

Wow!

This is a truly deep and quite encouraging idea.

We humans do need to realize that we are struggling against serious opposition but that our lives are fulfilling a profound purpose.

We are up against something pretty huge even with our own human ego, [and the invisible spiritual beings that influence us toward wasting our lives].

EGO is a hypothetical construct created by Freud that doenst exist