BBC: LBJ Tapes show Nixon ruined 1968 Peace talks LBJ called "Treason"

francoHFW

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Is this whenthe GOP became a disgrace?

"It begins in the summer of 1968. Nixon feared a breakthrough at the Paris Peace talks designed to find a negotiated settlement to the Vietnam war, and he knew this would derail his campaign.

He therefore set up a clandestine back-channel involving Anna Chennault, a senior campaign adviser.

At a July meeting in Nixon's New York apartment, the South Vietnamese ambassador was told Chennault represented Nixon and spoke for the campaign. If any message needed to be passed to the South Vietnamese president, Nguyen Van Thieu, it would come via Chennault.

In late October 1968 there were major concessions from Hanoi which promised to allow meaningful talks to get underway in Paris - concessions that would justify Johnson calling for a complete bombing halt of North Vietnam. This was exactly what Nixon feared.

The Paris peace talks may have ended years earlier, if it had not been for Nixon's subterfuge Chennault was despatched to the South Vietnamese embassy with a clear message: the South Vietnamese government should withdraw from the talks, refuse to deal with Johnson, and if Nixon was elected, they would get a much better deal.

So on the eve of his planned announcement of a halt to the bombing, Johnson learned the South Vietnamese were pulling out.

He was also told why. The FBI had bugged the ambassador's phone and a transcripts of Anna Chennault's calls were sent to the White House. In one conversation she tells the ambassador to "just hang on through election".

Johnson was told by Defence Secretary Clifford that the interference was illegal and threatened the chance for peace.

Nixon went on to become president and eventually signed a Vietnam peace deal in 1973 In a series of remarkable White House recordings we can hear Johnson's reaction to the news.

In one call to Senator Richard Russell he says: "We have found that our friend, the Republican nominee, our California friend, has been playing on the outskirts with our enemies and our friends both, he has been doing it through rather subterranean sources. Mrs Chennault is warning the South Vietnamese not to get pulled into this Johnson move."

He orders the Nixon campaign to be placed under FBI surveillance and demands to know if Nixon is personally involved.

When he became convinced it was being orchestrated by the Republican candidate, the president called Senator Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader in the Senate to get a message to Nixon.

The president knew what was going on, Nixon should back off and the subterfuge amounted to treason.

Publicly Nixon was suggesting he had no idea why the South Vietnamese withdrew from the talks. He even offered to travel to Saigon to get them back to the negotiating table.

Johnson felt it was the ultimate expression of political hypocrisy but in calls recorded with Clifford they express the fear that going public would require revealing the FBI were bugging the ambassador's phone and the National Security Agency (NSA) was intercepting his communications with Saigon.

So they decided to say nothing.

The president did let Humphrey know and gave him enough information to sink his opponent. But by then, a few days from the election, Humphrey had been told he had closed the gap with Nixon and would win the presidency. So Humphrey decided it would be too disruptive to the country to accuse the Republicans of treason, if the Democrats were going to win anyway.

Nixon ended his campaign by suggesting the administration war policy was in shambles. They couldn't even get the South Vietnamese to the negotiating table.

He won by less than 1% of the popular vote.

Once in office he escalated the war into Laos and Cambodia, with the loss of an additional 22,000 American lives, before finally settling for a peace agreement in 1973 that was within grasp in 1968.

The White House tapes, combined with Wheeler's interviews with key White House personnel, provide an unprecedented insight into how Johnson handled a series of crises that rocked his presidency. Sadly, we will never have that sort of insight again."

BBC News - The Lyndon Johnson tapes: Richard Nixon's 'treason'
 
I don't like that it is, but why is this so believable?
 
Not much question that America's enemies prefer dealing with religious nuts draped in flags, basically, arms merchants looking for big paydays. Look at Reagan's people, Schultz and Weinberger sabotaging talks with those Persian scum in 1980. Richard Nixon's lies are directly responsible for the deaths of more than 30,000 soldiers, sailors and marines and the maiming of tens of thousands more. Nixon is right beside Johnson at the hubs of hell tonight.

The Republican Party after IKE has been self-interested rather than interested in the United States of America. It tickles me how easy it is for anti-American scum to herd white trash out of trailer parks every other year simply by wrapping candidates in the flag and coaching them to spout religious nonsense with some law and order sprinkled in.

Reagan for example didn't give a shit about abortion until he saw the gleam in the eyes of microdicked white trash when he condemned it on cue in speeches written by Pat Buchanan disciples. Old Man Bush was pro abortion and anti-voodoo economics until he was offered the VP nomination.

They birthed the modern GOP. Grubbers herding morons into bad decisions every other year for forty years or so.
 
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So that was why Prexy Nixon was so furious with the Viet War protestors. If the allegations are true, he knew that his legitimacy as a president - to say nothing of his carefully burnished image as an ultra-patriot - would go down the tubes if the transcripts ever became public knowledge.

Of course, Nixon & Chennault should have been tried for treason. If found guilty, they should have been offered blindfolds & cigarettes - but naturally, we don't do things that way anymore.

Nixon had cultivated J. E. Hoover of the FBI v. carefully. Given Hoover's political leanings, it's amazing that the FBI coughed up the data to LBJ. Although, of course, LBJ himself was quite the WADC personality, too.

Would LBJ have done the same to gain the presidency? Prexy Truman resisted British blandishments to overthrow PM Mossadegh in Iran in '53 - saying that the Brits were being incredibly assinine about their oil concession, & that the US should not involve itself in the internal affairs of a freely elected government. The Brits approached prexy-elect Eisenhower, changing the pitch to "keeping the Commies out of Iran". Ike - with the Dulles bros. eager for action @ Dept. State & CIA, could hardly wait to turn up the heat on the Cold War ... We overthrew Mossadegh & re-installed the Shah of Iran, a weak, vicious & vacillating tyrant. He proceeded to lose his grasp on the Peacock Throne, & left behind the Ayatollah Khomeini to pick up the pieces.

We're STILL paying down the debt on that one.
 
So that was why Prexy Nixon was so furious with the Viet War protestors. If the allegations are true, he knew that his legitimacy as a president - to say nothing of his carefully burnished image as an ultra-patriot - would go down the tubes if the transcripts ever became public knowledge.

Of course, Nixon & Chennault should have been tried for treason. If found guilty, they should have been offered blindfolds & cigarettes - but naturally, we don't do things that way anymore.

Nixon had cultivated J. E. Hoover of the FBI v. carefully. Given Hoover's political leanings, it's amazing that the FBI coughed up the data to LBJ. Although, of course, LBJ himself was quite the WADC personality, too.

Would LBJ have done the same to gain the presidency? Prexy Truman resisted British blandishments to overthrow PM Mossadegh in Iran in '53 - saying that the Brits were being incredibly assinine about their oil concession, & that the US should not involve itself in the internal affairs of a freely elected government. The Brits approached prexy-elect Eisenhower, changing the pitch to "keeping the Commies out of Iran". Ike - with the Dulles bros. eager for action @ Dept. State & CIA, could hardly wait to turn up the heat on the Cold War ... We overthrew Mossadegh & re-installed the Shah of Iran, a weak, vicious & vacillating tyrant. He proceeded to lose his grasp on the Peacock Throne, & left behind the Ayatollah Khomeini to pick up the pieces.

We're STILL paying down the debt on that one.

You aren't trying to subvert some people's 'gut feelings' with facts by any chance, are you?
 
I think people read too much into this.

The South Vietnamese had no reason to want to deal with Johnson despite what Madam Chenault said. Johnson had already withdrawn from the presidential race, and the Democrats were falling all over themselves to find a way to sell Saigon out. The idea that any side in the conflict would make a deal with a lame duck president is sort of silly.
 
I think people read too much into this.

The South Vietnamese had no reason to want to deal with Johnson despite what Madam Chenault said. Johnson had already withdrawn from the presidential race, and the Democrats were falling all over themselves to find a way to sell Saigon out. The idea that any side in the conflict would make a deal with a lame duck president is sort of silly.

Is cutting deals with the enemy during an armed conflict treason or not? If the idea is so silly - & if Nixon & Chennault actually did this - then why did Nixon pursue such a dangerous course of action? If the war could have been negotiated to a close in 1968, then Nixon has a lot of US & Vietnamese & Cambodian & Laotian blood on his hands ...
 
I don't like that it is, but why is this so believable?

What's "believable" about it? It sounds just like another October Surprise conspiracy theory, with the difference that Johnson wasn't running for reelection, so Nixon had no motive for these shenanigans.
 
I think people read too much into this.

The South Vietnamese had no reason to want to deal with Johnson despite what Madam Chenault said. Johnson had already withdrawn from the presidential race, and the Democrats were falling all over themselves to find a way to sell Saigon out. The idea that any side in the conflict would make a deal with a lame duck president is sort of silly.

Is cutting deals with the enemy during an armed conflict treason or not? If the idea is so silly - & if Nixon & Chennault actually did this - then why did Nixon pursue such a dangerous course of action? If the war could have been negotiated to a close in 1968, then Nixon has a lot of US & Vietnamese & Cambodian & Laotian blood on his hands ...

The problem here is the SOUTH Vietnamese were not our enemies, they were our allies. Also, there was no "deal cut".

Let's put the partisan stuff aside for the moment and look at the real problem of Vietnam.

1) The people we were supporting were considered collaborators and would never, even gain popular support. the people we opposed were considered national heroes.

2) The only reason we didn't leave them to their own devices earlier was because neither side politically wanted to answer the charge of "Who Lost Vietnam" the way Republican beat Democrats with "Who Lost China" in the 1950's.

3) Johnson already had his legacy destroyed by this war, and was looking for a face-saving way out.

Now, one could argue that Nixon saw it as Johnson trying to sell another American Ally down the river and was warning them not to go along with it.

It wasn't like Johnson was negotiating from a position of strength. Everyone kind of knew it.

What was he going to promise the South Vietnamese that Humphrey or RFK (before he was assassinated) my renege on? Could they really trust a promise made by a guy who was not going to be around to enforce it.
 
LBJ knew it was over, Nixon didn't care, anything to get elected-see "Secret Plan" argghh...

Also in article- LBJ was planning a big return at the convention! But his safety couldn't be assured, Verrry interesting....
 
If true, Nixon and Johnson are guilty of murder and treason.

however, taking the situation as a whole, I doubt the South cared much about peace talks since they had the might of the American military at their beck and call.
 
God only knows what LBJ was going to concede to the NVA but he screwed himself. The US victory in the Tet offensive finally destroyed the North Vietnamese army but Wally Cronkite flew to Vietnam, put on a helmet and pretended he was under fire and told Americans that Tet was not a victory but a "stalemate". LBJ went on the air and for all intents and purposes threw in the towel when he tearfully told Americans that he had enough and would not run for a second full term. That single speech gave new life to the North Vietnam effort. If we want to throw the word "traitor" around we might consider Wally Cronkite and LBJ.
 
read this today. the question is why isnt LBJ charged with treason for not speaking about it? just a worse charge.
 
The Gulf of Tonkin Incident (Justification for the War) never happened. Robert McNamara said so in 1995.

The real rulers of America, The Bankers and the Military Industrial Complex, wanted the War so we got it!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AaGVAipGp0]Robert McNamara admits Gulf of Tonkin attack did not happen - YouTube[/ame]
 
15th post
"The Republican Party after IKE has been self-interested rather than interested in the United States of America. It tickles me how easy it is for anti-American scum to herd white trash out of trailer parks every other year simply by wrapping candidates in the flag and coaching them to spout religious nonsense with some law and order sprinkled in."

Before Ike too...and Ike wasn't a Republican- a war hero who could just as well have picked the Dems- wish he had!
 
How 'bout when Taft and what's his name (father of Nixon's running mate in '60) wrecked Versailles and the League, and loosened up the market in the 20's...how'd that work out?
 
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