Banks over Homeowners - what has America come to?

So an expert that you rely on tells you you can afford a loan and the fault lies with the borrower? I understand Cavet Emptor *sp* but now you guys are being ridiculous. In order to never rely on an expert you have to be an expert on everything.
Want your car fixed? Become a Auto Mechanic before getting it fixed.
Want your computer fixed? Become a computer tech before taking it to Geek Squad...
And if you dont become an expert, its all your fault for whatever happens to you?

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.

The loan agent tells the borrower how much money they need to make to get6 the loan through underwriting.....that is not advice...it is information..

The borrower then makes the consious decision to either lie about his income or tell the truth.

With the NINJA loans, many opted to lie.

But common sense should tell you...

"if you need to lie to get the loan, then maybe it is not a good idea to take the loan"

You see, people did not use common sense...they simply assumed they will somehow make it work.

Yup. common sense is MIA today, big time.
 
"Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner is pushing a settlement with the big banks and Wall Street firms that caused the mortgage crisis—letting them get away with a slap on the wrist.:confused:

Wall Street bankers have not faced any serious punishment for the widespread fraud that crashed our whole economy—pushing bad loans, lying to investors, forging foreclosure documents—and banks are making profits again while homeowners continue to suffer.

Unbelievably, Geithner wants state attorneys general to agree to a sweetheart deal where these banks would pay only $20 billion—a fraction of what they could owe if fully prosecuted—and would get immunity from investigation and prosecution of the criminal greed, negligence, and fraud that caused this crisis. This would eliminate any leverage regulators have to pressure banks to help out the homeowners they've hurt."

Let your representatives know American homeowners should come first, not the greedy unethical banks. Tell Treasury Secretary Geithner, "No more sweetheart deals for Wall Street. Let states investigate and prosecute the crimes that crashed our economy."

Click here to let them know:
MoveOn.org Civic Action: No Sweetheart Deal for Wall Street on Mortgage Fraud

So much for the theory that the DEMOCRATS are going to be there for the little guy, eh?

Actually, if you read my post early on in this thread, that is EXACTLY who BOTH parties are protecting....the little guy

We go after the banks, there will be tens of thosuands of everyday people broguht up on charges of intentionally lying on an affidavit in an effort to commit financial fraud.

The banks set the people up to lie.
The people lied.
The banks made money
And becuase the people lied, the banks get off scott free...all in an effort to protect the people.

True stuff.
 
So an expert that you rely on tells you you can afford a loan and the fault lies with the borrower? I understand Cavet Emptor *sp* but now you guys are being ridiculous. In order to never rely on an expert you have to be an expert on everything.
Want your car fixed? Become a Auto Mechanic before getting it fixed.
Want your computer fixed? Become a computer tech before taking it to Geek Squad...
And if you dont become an expert, its all your fault for whatever happens to you?

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.

The loan agent tells the borrower how much money they need to make to get6 the loan through underwriting.....that is not advice...it is information..

The borrower then makes the consious decision to either lie about his income or tell the truth.

With the NINJA loans, many opted to lie.

But common sense should tell you...

"if you need to lie to get the loan, then maybe it is not a good idea to take the loan"

You see, people did not use common sense...they simply assumed they will somehow make it work.

Yup. common sense is MIA today, big time.

well...we are now in a world where if you dont use common sense, you are considered a victim.

I mean...the credit card thing....Really? The applicant didnt read the fine print and signed anyway and HE is the victim?

My take....if the print is too fine to read, then they dont want you to see it...and if they dont want you to see it, they have something to hide....and if they have something to hide, then I dont want to sign anything to them.
 
You want all Americans to have to understand finance to buy a home.

I guess that is how you see the world but there would be alot fewer people owning homes.

How is that good for the economy?

It's just not that hard to understand...

Maybe people shouldn't spend 600,000k they don't have when they don't understand that they will be paying something around 1.2 million back over 30 years... And with an ARM it can be more as the rate can change.

the ARM is a different issue in itself...

That was where people took advice from the loan agents that was valid assuming all things being equal...but as we saw, all things werent.

To explain...

People took the ARM for re-fi's....a great teaser rate for a year or two...1.5%....
But they also committed to a rate jump to prime plus X (depending on creditworthiness).....and that made it much more expensive...so people said..."I dont want to worry about the "unknown" down the road...."

And the loan agents responded with...

"dont worry, when your teaser rate expires, you can re-fiannce again for another teaser rate...as there is no pre payment penalty with this loan"

The problem?

Becuase of what happened with the NINJA loans, real estate devalued...something that was unheard of...and people found themselves with negative equity in their homes making it impossible to re-fi...

So their teaser rate expoired, they couldnt re-fi...and all of a sudden thgeir mortgage payments as much as tripled.

From my understanding it has always been safer to do a FRM than am ARM because you can't tell what things (economy/world/rates/whatever) will be like over lets say 20-30 years.
 
I was not qualified for a fixed rate because of my self employed status at the time.
 
It's just not that hard to understand...

Maybe people shouldn't spend 600,000k they don't have when they don't understand that they will be paying something around 1.2 million back over 30 years... And with an ARM it can be more as the rate can change.

the ARM is a different issue in itself...

That was where people took advice from the loan agents that was valid assuming all things being equal...but as we saw, all things werent.

To explain...

People took the ARM for re-fi's....a great teaser rate for a year or two...1.5%....
But they also committed to a rate jump to prime plus X (depending on creditworthiness).....and that made it much more expensive...so people said..."I dont want to worry about the "unknown" down the road...."

And the loan agents responded with...

"dont worry, when your teaser rate expires, you can re-fiannce again for another teaser rate...as there is no pre payment penalty with this loan"

The problem?

Becuase of what happened with the NINJA loans, real estate devalued...something that was unheard of...and people found themselves with negative equity in their homes making it impossible to re-fi...

So their teaser rate expoired, they couldnt re-fi...and all of a sudden thgeir mortgage payments as much as tripled.

From my understanding it has always been safer to do a FRM than am ARM because you can't tell what things (economy/world/rates/whatever) will be like over lets say 20-30 years.

a while back I re-fid.....to 4.75....
My neighbor (AND friend) re-fid to a 5 year fixed rate at 1.5 changing to an ARM of prime plus whatever....

Now, I like Joel....but he ribbed me about it as he bought himself a new boat...he took cash out and had a sweatheart of a monthly payment...he took my wife and I on his boat and talked about the big mistake I made by taking a fixed rate mortgage and NOT taking cash out....

Well....then it began to crumble for the poor guy.

First, he lost his job.....he got another one, but not nearly as much money.
Then his house went down in value as all of ours did.
Then the ARM kicked in and his mortgage payment went up over 3 times what it was.
Then he lost the boat.

The man laughed at me...hr truly mocked me.

And now?

He is one of those guys saying he is the victim of the system.
 
the ARM is a different issue in itself...

That was where people took advice from the loan agents that was valid assuming all things being equal...but as we saw, all things werent.

To explain...

People took the ARM for re-fi's....a great teaser rate for a year or two...1.5%....
But they also committed to a rate jump to prime plus X (depending on creditworthiness).....and that made it much more expensive...so people said..."I dont want to worry about the "unknown" down the road...."

And the loan agents responded with...

"dont worry, when your teaser rate expires, you can re-fiannce again for another teaser rate...as there is no pre payment penalty with this loan"

The problem?

Becuase of what happened with the NINJA loans, real estate devalued...something that was unheard of...and people found themselves with negative equity in their homes making it impossible to re-fi...

So their teaser rate expoired, they couldnt re-fi...and all of a sudden thgeir mortgage payments as much as tripled.

From my understanding it has always been safer to do a FRM than am ARM because you can't tell what things (economy/world/rates/whatever) will be like over lets say 20-30 years.

a while back I re-fid.....to 4.75....
My neighbor (AND friend) re-fid to a 5 year fixed rate at 1.5 changing to an ARM of prime plus whatever....

Now, I like Joel....but he ribbed me about it as he bought himself a new boat...he took cash out and had a sweatheart of a monthly payment...he took my wife and I on his boat and talked about the big mistake I made by taking a fixed rate mortgage and NOT taking cash out....

Well....then it began to crumble for the poor guy.

First, he lost his job.....he got another one, but not nearly as much money.
Then his house went down in value as all of ours did.
Then the ARM kicked in and his mortgage payment went up over 3 times what it was.
Then he lost the boat.

The man laughed at me...hr truly mocked me.

And now?

He is one of those guys saying he is the victim of the system.

Send him to TM. She can help I'm sure. :lol:
 
So an expert that you rely on tells you you can afford a loan and the fault lies with the borrower? I understand Cavet Emptor *sp* but now you guys are being ridiculous. In order to never rely on an expert you have to be an expert on everything.
Want your car fixed? Become a Auto Mechanic before getting it fixed.
Want your computer fixed? Become a computer tech before taking it to Geek Squad...
And if you dont become an expert, its all your fault for whatever happens to you?

Why are you relying on anyone but yourself?

If there's something wrong with your car, educate yourself enough to know whether your mechanic is taking you to the cleaners. If there's something wrong with your computer, learn enough about your computer to make an informed decision on how to proceed in getting it fixed.

You don't have to be an "expert" to make rational choices...but you do have to use your brain.
 
"Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner is pushing a settlement with the big banks and Wall Street firms that caused the mortgage crisis—letting them get away with a slap on the wrist.:confused:

Wall Street bankers have not faced any serious punishment for the widespread fraud that crashed our whole economy—pushing bad loans, lying to investors, forging foreclosure documents—and banks are making profits again while homeowners continue to suffer.

Unbelievably, Geithner wants state attorneys general to agree to a sweetheart deal where these banks would pay only $20 billion—a fraction of what they could owe if fully prosecuted—and would get immunity from investigation and prosecution of the criminal greed, negligence, and fraud that caused this crisis. This would eliminate any leverage regulators have to pressure banks to help out the homeowners they've hurt."

Let your representatives know American homeowners should come first, not the greedy unethical banks. Tell Treasury Secretary Geithner, "No more sweetheart deals for Wall Street. Let states investigate and prosecute the crimes that crashed our economy."

Click here to let them know:
MoveOn.org Civic Action: No Sweetheart Deal for Wall Street on Mortgage Fraud

BANKS AND WALL STREET???--NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD THIS BY POLITICIANS--DID NOT CREATE THIS CRISIS-

-The Federal Government did.

It was through Federal Government policies that banking collapsed in this country and Wall Street was allowed to work the derivitives market with American assets.

The short version of what brought us to this economic calamity:

Our Federal Government thought it would be a great idea to co-sign our names to 50% of the mortgages in this country through Fannie/Freddie. This--while at the same time they were pressuring banks to lower their lending standards. Meaning no collateral--no down payment--and less than a desirable credit rating--could still buy someone a 300K custom home while qualifying under a sub-prime mortgage. Why were these loans approved by mortgage brokers and banks? Because they had 310 million American co-signers.

At this same time--the Glass/Stegal banking act of the 1930's was deregulated--and Wall Street started buying up these mortgage backed securities as fast as they could and started using them as collateral--in the mother of all casino's-- known as the derivities market--which was fully supported by Clinton's treasury secretary Robert Rubin and fed chairman Allan Greenspan--who are on video recording apologizing for their hand in this collapse.

All warnings of an imminent collapse were completely ignored by both congressional and senate banking boards.

In essence the Federal Government built a house of cards that collapsed leaving the American taxpayer holding the bag.

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com
 
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From my understanding it has always been safer to do a FRM than am ARM because you can't tell what things (economy/world/rates/whatever) will be like over lets say 20-30 years.

a while back I re-fid.....to 4.75....
My neighbor (AND friend) re-fid to a 5 year fixed rate at 1.5 changing to an ARM of prime plus whatever....

Now, I like Joel....but he ribbed me about it as he bought himself a new boat...he took cash out and had a sweatheart of a monthly payment...he took my wife and I on his boat and talked about the big mistake I made by taking a fixed rate mortgage and NOT taking cash out....

Well....then it began to crumble for the poor guy.

First, he lost his job.....he got another one, but not nearly as much money.
Then his house went down in value as all of ours did.
Then the ARM kicked in and his mortgage payment went up over 3 times what it was.
Then he lost the boat.

The man laughed at me...hr truly mocked me.

And now?

He is one of those guys saying he is the victim of the system.

Send him to TM. She can help I'm sure. :lol:

well, at the very lesat she will confirm that he is a victim of the big bad evil business owners.
And then she will tell him how selfish I am for not helping him pay his boat off.
 
Oreo, you believe crap, no matter what the NYT said in 1997 (for the thousandth time). Glass Steagel was ended by a Pub bill, 80% of toxic assets in 2003-6 were not F+F- they got in late, etc etc.
Right now, unfortunately, is not the time to go after banks , maybe if Pubs weren't paralyzing the recovery, after CAUSING the depression...First, the GD recovery-what a-holes...
 
Well, he was a fool of the system. LOTS of people were. And for the billionth time, it was mainly fraud on the part of lenders and no enforcement by Pub SEC, etc.

I beg to differ.

If you read my posts you would know who is at fault.

The original fraud was conmmitted by the borrower...and it is actually fiancnail fraud with a signed affidavit...they lied and swore they were telling the truth as it pertains to a financial transaction. That is serious stuff.

The second fraud was just as lethal but not nearly as "illegal".

Banks sold loans they were not sure were viable investments...so when these loans were deemed as AAA, they knew they likely weerent, but did not care to tell anyone...nor did they have the legal respoonsibility to tell anyone. They were not the ones who rated them....the rating agencies did. Unethical? yes. Illegal? No.

Now...you tell me....do you want your neighbors prosecuted for fiancnail fraud? For if you ask the government to go after the banks for beiung unethical, then the banks will insist the governemtn to go after the people for committing financial fraud.

Best is to leave it alone..as the government is doing.

The banks let the people lie.
The people lied and swore they werent
The banks make money.
The people screwed themselves over.

And now we all move on.
 
Well, he was a fool of the system. LOTS of people were. And for the billionth time, it was mainly fraud on the part of lenders and no enforcement by Pub SEC, etc.

I beg to differ.

If you read my posts you would know who is at fault.

The original fraud was conmmitted by the borrower...and it is actually fiancnail fraud with a signed affidavit...they lied and swore they were telling the truth as it pertains to a financial transaction. That is serious stuff.

The second fraud was just as lethal but not nearly as "illegal".

Banks sold loans they were not sure were viable investments...so when these loans were deemed as AAA, they knew they likely weerent, but did not care to tell anyone...nor did they have the legal respoonsibility to tell anyone. They were not the ones who rated them....the rating agencies did. Unethical? yes. Illegal? No.

Now...you tell me....do you want your neighbors prosecuted for fiancnail fraud? For if you ask the government to go after the banks for beiung unethical, then the banks will insist the governemtn to go after the people for committing financial fraud.

Best is to leave it alone..as the government is doing.

The banks let the people lie.
The people lied and swore they werent
The banks make money.
The people screwed themselves over.

And now we all move on.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT with THEIR POLICIES-- OPENED THE DOOR for FRAUD AND ABUSE.

And unfortunately we live in a society that when many see a crack in the system they will jump in there and take advantage of it. Unfortunately that's human nature for millions of people.
 
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