Baker investigated for refusing to make same sex wedding cake

[Truthmatters]

I don't think lawsuits are examples of the free market in action. If they weren't in it for the attention, they would have just gone to a baker who would make the cake, and that baker would be financially better off.

How well did that work out for black people back in the day?

 

[Rozman]

The future brides to be are free to walk across the street and do business with that baker.

 

[novasteve]

I don't think lawsuits are examples of the free market in action. If they weren't in it for the attention, they would have just gone to a baker who would make the cake, and that baker would be financially better off.

How well did that work out for black people back in the day?

Did he not say he would sell them anything but a wedding cake? During segregation, did they allow blacks in, but just couldn't get one thing? No.

STupid comparison.

Are you outraged that men can't join women only gyms? Will liberals throw limp wristed hissy fits over that?

 

[Sunshine]

If bakers don't want to make wedding cakes for same sex couples, what they should do is stop advertising that they make wedding cakes. Make them for friends, for those who are personally recommended by friends. Through word of mouth and recommendation. No doubt there will be wedding cake bakers completely willing to make wedding cakes for anyone, including same sex couples. They can go there.

When I got sued and a complaint filed against me for refusing to paint the wedding portrait of a lesbian couple. I won that case. Following my example, a photographer who belongs to my art group did exactly what I did, and won a complaint against him for not providing wedding photographs for a same sex couple.

A two-tier business system will eventually be put in place. One will be public and the other will depend on who you know.

The structure of a business like a bakery is quite different from that of a portrait artist. A bakery requires far more in volume to run than just what it would get from referrals. But say you did implement a referral system, then what do you do if one of your friends personally recommends a gay couple?

Every business that is open to the public is expected to abide by public policy. The business owner can stand up for his beliefs, but the point will come when it will cost him dearly.

I remember being taught as a little Sunday School girl that the day will come when we will suffer for our beliefs. I think that day is upon us.

 

[Rozman]

It will be interesting to see just how far people are going to take this.
Do they file a lawsuit.
Does a Gloria Alred wannabe or Gloria herself get involved.
Do they set up a protest outside the guys place of business and block people from entering like Nancy Pelosi's little darlings from Occupy Wall street did.

We shall see.

 

[Katzndogz]

The object isn't to get a wedding cake. It's to force this particular baker into making them a wedding cake simply because they can.

My mechanic won't do business with black people. He won't fix their cars, he won't change their oil. After years of anger and frustration in dealing with them, he now refuses. He has a business structure that lets him do this. Black people who want their cars fixed just have to go someplace else.

 

[Truthmatters]

will it be fine if the community desides to boycot the baker?

 

[novasteve]

will it be fine if the community desides to boycot the baker?

Sure. LIke it's okay for the community to decide to boycott a baker that doesn't make same sex wedding cakes. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Rozman]

I think people react strongly to boycotts.
Even people who disagree with the bakers position and feel he was wrong in what he did will
not tolerate an angry mob trying to put the guy out of business.

 

[Katzndogz]

If bakers don't want to make wedding cakes for same sex couples, what they should do is stop advertising that they make wedding cakes. Make them for friends, for those who are personally recommended by friends. Through word of mouth and recommendation. No doubt there will be wedding cake bakers completely willing to make wedding cakes for anyone, including same sex couples. They can go there.

When I got sued and a complaint filed against me for refusing to paint the wedding portrait of a lesbian couple. I won that case. Following my example, a photographer who belongs to my art group did exactly what I did, and won a complaint against him for not providing wedding photographs for a same sex couple.

A two-tier business system will eventually be put in place. One will be public and the other will depend on who you know.

The structure of a business like a bakery is quite different from that of a portrait artist. A bakery requires far more in volume to run than just what it would get from referrals. But say you did implement a referral system, then what do you do if one of your friends personally recommends a gay couple?

Every business that is open to the public is expected to abide by public policy. The business owner can stand up for his beliefs, but the point will come when it will cost him dearly.

I remember being taught as a little Sunday School girl that the day will come when we will suffer for our beliefs. I think that day is upon us.

None of my existing art patrons would recommend a same sex couple, but if they did, I would do the same thing, refuse and tell them I don't feel like it.

A bakery might require more in volume, but they get that, they sell cupcakes, cookies, pastries, and any gay or straight can walk in and get their bakery products. Just like any gay or straight could walk into my shop and buy something off the wall.

 

[Katzndogz]

I think people react strongly to boycotts.
Even people who disagree with the bakers position and feel he was wrong in what he did will
not tolerate an angry mob trying to put the guy out of business.

The gay boycott didn't work out so well as far as Chick Fil A was concerned did it? People might be getting a tad tired of boycotts and being led around by aberrant special interest groups. A boycott might, today, boomerang instead of help.

 

[Sunshine]

The object isn't to get a wedding cake. It's to force this particular baker into making them a wedding cake simply because they can.
My mechanic won't do business with black people. He won't fix their cars, he won't change their oil. After years of anger and frustration in dealing with them, he now refuses. He has a business structure that lets him do this. Black people who want their cars fixed just have to go someplace else.

Yes I agree with that. But you didn't explain what happens when someone makes that 'just one exception' referral.

Medical specialty clinics do exactly as you suggest, work by referral only. When I got referred to my medical specialist, I thought I would die before he decided to take me on as a patient. I was fluid overloaded by over 50 pounds and in heart failure, but they took their good old easy time deciding if they could 'help' me. But the decision was made on the basis of what could be done for me and nothing else that I am aware of. MDs discriminate against NPs all the time, but I was relieved to learn this guy is married to an NP.

 

[Sunshine]

If bakers don't want to make wedding cakes for same sex couples, what they should do is stop advertising that they make wedding cakes. Make them for friends, for those who are personally recommended by friends. Through word of mouth and recommendation. No doubt there will be wedding cake bakers completely willing to make wedding cakes for anyone, including same sex couples. They can go there.

When I got sued and a complaint filed against me for refusing to paint the wedding portrait of a lesbian couple. I won that case. Following my example, a photographer who belongs to my art group did exactly what I did, and won a complaint against him for not providing wedding photographs for a same sex couple.

A two-tier business system will eventually be put in place. One will be public and the other will depend on who you know.

The structure of a business like a bakery is quite different from that of a portrait artist. A bakery requires far more in volume to run than just what it would get from referrals. But say you did implement a referral system, then what do you do if one of your friends personally recommends a gay couple?

Every business that is open to the public is expected to abide by public policy. The business owner can stand up for his beliefs, but the point will come when it will cost him dearly.

I remember being taught as a little Sunday School girl that the day will come when we will suffer for our beliefs. I think that day is upon us.

None of my existing art patrons would recommend a same sex couple, but if they did, I would do the same thing, refuse and tell them I don't feel like it.

A bakery might require more in volume, but they get that, they sell cupcakes, cookies, pastries, and any gay or straight can walk in and get their bakery products. Just like any gay or straight could walk into my shop and buy something off the wall.

I hope your friends don't let you down. I had a seamstress several years ago who told me that she weeded out the pains in the ass by telling them she was just 'too busy' to do the work they asked for. Even so, a flimsy excuse to weed out race is not tolerated in the courts if the person is open to the public.

 

[Truthmatters]

will it be fine if the community desides to boycot the baker?

Sure. LIke it's okay for the community to decide to boycott a baker that doesn't make same sex wedding cakes. You can't have it both ways.

where did I ask for it to be both ways?

 

[Katzndogz]

The object isn't to get a wedding cake. It's to force this particular baker into making them a wedding cake simply because they can.
My mechanic won't do business with black people. He won't fix their cars, he won't change their oil. After years of anger and frustration in dealing with them, he now refuses. He has a business structure that lets him do this. Black people who want their cars fixed just have to go someplace else.

Yes I agree with that. But you didn't explain what happens when someone makes that 'just one exception' referral.

Medical specialty clinics do exactly as you suggest, work by referral only. When I got referred to my medical specialist, I thought I would die before he decided to take me on as a patient. I was fluid overloaded by over 50 pounds and in heart failure, but they took their good old easy time deciding if they could 'help' me. But the decision was made on the basis of what could be done for me and nothing else that I am aware of. MDs discriminate against NPs all the time, but I was relieved to learn this guy is married to an NP.

One exception doesn't violate a rule. Suppose this baker didn't bake wedding cakes. Didn't advertise that he baked wedding cakes, and put up a sign that says "No Wedding Cakes". But, for friends, relatives, members of his church, and anyone else he felt like doing a favor for, he would bake a wedding cake. He baked a wedding cake for Cousin Charlie and his husband, Jake. All it means is that he baked a wedding cake for Charlie and Jake. It doesn't mean that because he baked that cake, he was obligated to bake cakes for same sex couples.

 

[Katzndogz]

The structure of a business like a bakery is quite different from that of a portrait artist. A bakery requires far more in volume to run than just what it would get from referrals. But say you did implement a referral system, then what do you do if one of your friends personally recommends a gay couple?

Every business that is open to the public is expected to abide by public policy. The business owner can stand up for his beliefs, but the point will come when it will cost him dearly.

I remember being taught as a little Sunday School girl that the day will come when we will suffer for our beliefs. I think that day is upon us.

None of my existing art patrons would recommend a same sex couple, but if they did, I would do the same thing, refuse and tell them I don't feel like it.

A bakery might require more in volume, but they get that, they sell cupcakes, cookies, pastries, and any gay or straight can walk in and get their bakery products. Just like any gay or straight could walk into my shop and buy something off the wall.

I hope your friends don't let you down. I had a seamstress several years ago who told me that she weeded out the pains in the ass by telling them she was just 'too busy' to do the work they asked for. Even so, a flimsy excuse to weed out race is not tolerated in the courts if the person is open to the public.

You are not understanding the correct principle. The reason I won my lawsuit is because the lesbian couple could not prove that I was in the business of portraiture. They proved that I had a dog grooming shop, but I didn't discriminate against their dog. They proved that my artwork was on display but did not prove that I refused to sell them any artwork already produced. They proved that on occasion I did paint the portraits of friends. But they could never prove that I was in the business of portraiture and they were entitled to the protection of public accommodation laws.

Your seamstress is in the same position as my mechanic who refuses to work for black people. He doesn't have to say he's too busy. He just says no. Since he's not in "business" he's not a place of public accommodation. Of course this is supported by the courts who cannot force someone to basically do a favor for someone else. As you said IF the person is open to the public. That's a very big IF and it does have to be proved.

 

[Sunni Man]

I had a seamstress several years ago who told me that she weeded out the pains in the ass by telling them she was just 'too busy' to do the work they asked for. Even so, a flimsy excuse to weed out race is not tolerated in the courts if the person is open to the public.

Many years ago I owned a company that did home insulation on attics and walls.

When ever I had a pain in the butt customer or an obvious jerk wanting an estimate for a job.

I will tell them that I was snowed under with too many jobs already.

And then give them one of my competitors phone numbers to call.........

 

[Sunshine]

None of my existing art patrons would recommend a same sex couple, but if they did, I would do the same thing, refuse and tell them I don't feel like it.

A bakery might require more in volume, but they get that, they sell cupcakes, cookies, pastries, and any gay or straight can walk in and get their bakery products. Just like any gay or straight could walk into my shop and buy something off the wall.

I hope your friends don't let you down. I had a seamstress several years ago who told me that she weeded out the pains in the ass by telling them she was just 'too busy' to do the work they asked for. Even so, a flimsy excuse to weed out race is not tolerated in the courts if the person is open to the public.

You are not understanding the correct principle. The reason I won my lawsuit is because the lesbian couple could not prove that I was in the business of portraiture. They proved that I had a dog grooming shop, but I didn't discriminate against their dog. They proved that my artwork was on display but did not prove that I refused to sell them any artwork already produced. They proved that on occasion I did paint the portraits of friends. But they could never prove that I was in the business of portraiture and they were entitled to the protection of public accommodation laws.

Your seamstress is in the same position as my mechanic who refuses to work for black people. He doesn't have to say he's too busy. He just says no. Since he's not in "business" he's not a place of public accommodation. Of course this is supported by the courts who cannot force someone to basically do a favor for someone else. As you said IF the person is open to the public. That's a very big IF and it does have to be proved.

I think it would be difficult to prove that a baker was not open to the public for wedding cakes. I doubt most do the decorating themselves, but have people hired who do the job. You just don't hire people to do favors for friends.

 

[Sunshine]

I had a seamstress several years ago who told me that she weeded out the pains in the ass by telling them she was just 'too busy' to do the work they asked for. Even so, a flimsy excuse to weed out race is not tolerated in the courts if the person is open to the public.

Many years ago I owned a company that did home insulation on attics and walls.

When ever I had a pain in the butt customer or an obvious jerk wanting an estimate for a job.

I will tell them that I was snowed under with too many jobs already.

And then give them one of my competitors phone numbers to call.........

LOL. I have a friend who got her doctorate in education. She talks of what a dating snob she was before she started that program. She would only date men with degrees. She said in her doctoral program she learned that there are many kinds of intelligence and the next time she marries she will marry a man who can fix the toilet! LOL.

I learned the secret to being an independent single woman is to have good service people to fix things in your house when they go on the fritz. Everywhere I have lived, finding those people has been a priority. And I have always succeeded. After I moved back home, I did the same thing. But the CEO at the place where I was a nursing administrator at the time just couldn't seem to find anyone who would work for her at home. She was from the north and looked down her nose not only at us 'rednecks' but also at tradesmen. Is it any wonder she always had something broken and couldn't get it fixed!

 

[Sunni Man]

I have lived in the epi-center of the liberal loons of New England for the last 6 years.

When ever I am working around these Harvard educated nitwits.

I always pepper my speech with "ya all' and "I reckon so"

That coupled with my southern accent seems to drive them crazy.

It's great fun!!