Bain Capital closing Illinois Plant

[Toro]

Guy, you can whine like a little ***** all day.

If you are hated by me, you've probably done something to deserve it. Individually or collectively.

Here's how much I care.

]

When you stop following me around, then I'll believe you really don't care.

Frankly, cyber stalking, and keeping lists of out of context statements that you can lie about, that's kind of the opposite of "not caring".

Good idea. Get out the whiny ***** card when you've been pwnd and can't back your statements.

 

[Shelzin]

Good grief!

My health insurance will increase by 7.8% starting January 2013.
Gas has gone up in my region to $4.79 a gallon (reg)
Milk has risen from 2/$5.29 to $3.29 per gallon, in the past 6 months.

My discretionary income is being eaten away by necessities.

Yeah... Inflation is a *****. Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2012 28.1% between 1995 and 2005... But medium income at absolute best is at like 12% ( I used the woman only figure for absolute best result from information given )

But somehow Purchasing Power has gone up... o.0
Please... I might be an idiot having a brain fart here. Explain this to me. How is it possible for purchasing power to go up with those figures? And that's using 1995 - 2005 figures.
From 2005-2012 inflation is at 18%. Let me be very clear here... IF your check isn't 18% bigger from 2005 then you lost money even if the size of your check didn't change.
Edit: No responses? Need it simplified further? No problem.
Please... If I'm wrong someone tell me. <snip>

Forgive my cutting your post.

I don't know how it's possible, in general, across the country.

I am speaking of my own personal experience.

OH honey I cut posts all the time. It's the best way to actually address what someone else is saying when they have more than one point.

Forgive me for using you as a springboard for a general rant.

 

[Shelzin]

I highlighted the relevant part for you.

And it has Purchasing Power at:
2005 10 years: 5.7% 20 years: 8.0% 30 year: 7.5% 40 years: 6.2%

Instead of calling you names, because I honestly don't think you are worthy of it... I'll simply ask if you think that it's correct.

I highlighted the relevant part for you.

Edit: Inflation is part of purchasing power. You know that right? Do you honestly think you can buy more now than 5 years ago? Let alone 10?

And I answered that the numbers are adjusted for inflation. That means they are after inflation. So a positive number means that purchasing power is rising.

Over the past five years, inflation-adjusted incomes are roughly flat.

Do you know anyone that has had a 18% raise?

I'm going to go ahead and say this again:


Yeah... Inflation is a *****. Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2012 28.1% between 1995 and 2005... But medium income at absolute best is at like 12% ( I used the woman only figure for absolute best result from information given )

But somehow Purchasing Power has gone up... o.0

Please... I might be an idiot having a brain fart here. Explain this to me. How is it possible for purchasing power to go up with those figures? And that's using 1995 - 2005 figures.

From 2005-2012 inflation is at 18%. Let me be very clear here... IF your check isn't 18% bigger from 2005 then you lost money even if the size of your check didn't change.

Edit: No responses? Need it simplified further? No problem.

If you made: 30k a year in 2005 you need to be making 35,400 right now to break even to buy the same things you did in 2005

If you made: 50k a year in 2005 you need to be making 59,000 right now to break even to buy the same things you did in 2005

If you made: 100k a year in 2005 you need to be making 118,000 right now to break even to buy the same things you did in 2005

Please... If I'm wrong someone tell me.

If Obama or Mitt is talking about making a sound dollar... Hey... I want to hear it. I've heard it from Ron... I've heard it from Gary. They have done everything short of SCREAMING at the public saying this is a problem... I guess if Obama or Mitt doesn't address it then it's not a problem??? This is a shit load more than JUST jobs. We're all getting fucked. All of us. You know why companies are making record profits even in a recession? Because they have to have at least 18% more than they did in 2005 just to make the same amount of profit.
__________________
"A man who dies fighting with his principles intact dies in glory. To expect enemies to follow the same code of honor defiles that honor, reducing it to a set of arbitrary rules." Colbey Callistinson- The Renshai Chronicles

 

[Toro]

And it has Purchasing Power at:
2005 10 years: 5.7% 20 years: 8.0% 30 year: 7.5% 40 years: 6.2%

Instead of calling you names, because I honestly don't think you are worthy of it... I'll simply ask if you think that it's correct.

I highlighted the relevant part for you.

Edit: Inflation is part of purchasing power. You know that right? Do you honestly think you can buy more now than 5 years ago? Let alone 10?

And I answered that the numbers are adjusted for inflation. That means they are after inflation. So a positive number means that purchasing power is rising.

Over the past five years, inflation-adjusted incomes are roughly flat.

Do you know anyone that has had a 18% raise?

I'm going to go ahead and say this again:


Yeah... Inflation is a *****. Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2012 28.1% between 1995 and 2005... But medium income at absolute best is at like 12% ( I used the woman only figure for absolute best result from information given )

But somehow Purchasing Power has gone up... o.0

Please... I might be an idiot having a brain fart here. Explain this to me. How is it possible for purchasing power to go up with those figures? And that's using 1995 - 2005 figures.

From 2005-2012 inflation is at 18%. Let me be very clear here... IF your check isn't 18% bigger from 2005 then you lost money even if the size of your check didn't change.

Edit: No responses? Need it simplified further? No problem.

If you made: 30k a year in 2005 you need to be making 35,400 right now to break even to buy the same things you did in 2005

If you made: 50k a year in 2005 you need to be making 59,000 right now to break even to buy the same things you did in 2005

If you made: 100k a year in 2005 you need to be making 118,000 right now to break even to buy the same things you did in 2005

Please... If I'm wrong someone tell me.

If Obama or Mitt is talking about making a sound dollar... Hey... I want to hear it. I've heard it from Ron... I've heard it from Gary. They have done everything short of SCREAMING at the public saying this is a problem... I guess if Obama or Mitt doesn't address it then it's not a problem??? This is a shit load more than JUST jobs. We're all getting fucked. All of us. You know why companies are making record profits even in a recession? Because they have to have at least 18% more than they did in 2005 just to make the same amount of profit.
__________________
"A man who dies fighting with his principles intact dies in glory. To expect enemies to follow the same code of honor defiles that honor, reducing it to a set of arbitrary rules." Colbey Callistinson- The Renshai Chronicles

Those figures are after inflation. Almost all reported economic figures are.

And yes, most people I know make more money now in nominal terms than they did in 2005.

 

[Shelzin]

Those figures are after inflation. Almost all reported economic figures are.

No... The author says those are the figures after inflation. I would submit that the authors interpretation of "Purchasing Power" is flat out wrong or uses factors that are irreverent.

And yes, most people I know make more money now in nominal terms than they did in 2005.

They have had a 18% raise? Good for you and your friends. Anyone that reads this post... Think to yourself. Have I got a 18% raise in the last 7 years?

When most of you come to the conclusion that no.. You did not. Don't worry, that's the majority of us as well. Toro and his friends have done all the things they had to do to not be a part of the majority. Good on them I say.

However... I will fault both you and your friends for not recognizing the situations around you. You know... The little people making less than 100k, or people just coming into the employment game.

 

[Toro]

No... The author says those are the figures after inflation. I would submit that the authors interpretation of "Purchasing Power" is flat out wrong or uses factors that are irreverent.

Please don't do this. I just finished banging my head with an utterly clueless poster who argued that GDP growth wasn't economic growth. Please don't tell me that purchasing power isn't income after inflation.

Purchasing power (sometimes retroactively called adjusted for inflation) is the amount of goods or services that can be purchased with a unit of currency. For example, if you had taken one dollar to a store in the 1950s, you would have been able to buy a greater number of items than you would today, indicating that you would have had a greater purchasing power in the 1950s. ...

A higher real income means a higher purchasing power since real income refers to the income adjusted for inflation.

Purchasing power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This isn't debatable. It's the first or second class of a first year economics course.

 

[jillian]

I highlighted the relevant part for you.

And it has Purchasing Power at:
2005 10 years: 5.7% 20 years: 8.0% 30 year: 7.5% 40 years: 6.2%

Instead of calling you names, because I honestly don't think you are worthy of it... I'll simply ask if you think that it's correct.

I highlighted the relevant part for you.

Edit: Inflation is part of purchasing power. You know that right? Do you honestly think you can buy more now than 5 years ago? Let alone 10?

And I answered that the numbers are adjusted for inflation. That means they are after inflation. So a positive number means that purchasing power is rising.

Over the past five years, inflation-adjusted incomes are roughly flat.

at all income levels, toro?

 

[Toro]

And it has Purchasing Power at:
2005 10 years: 5.7% 20 years: 8.0% 30 year: 7.5% 40 years: 6.2%

Instead of calling you names, because I honestly don't think you are worthy of it... I'll simply ask if you think that it's correct.

I highlighted the relevant part for you.

Edit: Inflation is part of purchasing power. You know that right? Do you honestly think you can buy more now than 5 years ago? Let alone 10?

And I answered that the numbers are adjusted for inflation. That means they are after inflation. So a positive number means that purchasing power is rising.

Over the past five years, inflation-adjusted incomes are roughly flat.

at all income levels, toro?

Over 25-40 years, yes, with one exception, and that is uneducated white males. They have seen their real incomes decline since 1970. For the past five years, real incomes are flat in aggregate but I'm not sure how they break down by income strata. It is quite possible that certain income distributions have seen their incomes fall while others rose over the past five years.

EDIT - I've edited the years. Male incomes have been flat over the past 15 years while female incomes have risen. If you break income growth down by income distributions, all incomes have grown over the past 15 years, but that's because female income has risen. It is probably true over the past 15 years that certain income strata amongst males have declined.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And it has Purchasing Power at:
2005 10 years: 5.7% 20 years: 8.0% 30 year: 7.5% 40 years: 6.2%

Instead of calling you names, because I honestly don't think you are worthy of it... I'll simply ask if you think that it's correct.

I highlighted the relevant part for you.

Edit: Inflation is part of purchasing power. You know that right? Do you honestly think you can buy more now than 5 years ago? Let alone 10?

And I answered that the numbers are adjusted for inflation. That means they are after inflation. So a positive number means that purchasing power is rising.

Over the past five years, inflation-adjusted incomes are roughly flat.

at all income levels, toro?

That's irrelevant. And presupposes the notion that a person is forever stuck at a certain income level.
There are a certain number of jobs at one moment in time. There are people filling those jobs. As those at the entry level low skill jobs move forward, others take their place. Also new employment opportunities are created in a growing economy.
As more people advance into higher paying positions. purchasing power of those individuals improves.
It is not the level of income. Purchasing power is relative to the individual.
For example...
Take two people each earning the same amount per year.
One is single. One is married with two kids.
Which one has more purchasing power?
Example two....Two people again each earning the same amount per year.
One has a stellar credit history. The other has a bankruptcy in the last 5 years.
Which one has more purchasing power?
Example three....Same conditions....
One owns a condominium. One owns a single family house.
The two properties are of equal value.
The one that owns the house pays $300 per year toward his HOA dues and spends $200 per year in upkeep of his turf and shrubbery. He spends $500 per year on routine maintenance on his home
The condo owner pays monthly dues of $400 for amenities and other items.
Which one has more purchasing power?
The issue of purchasing power is not how much one earns, it is how they spend it once they earn it.
Purchasing power is just as much a matter of choices as it is income.

 

[Conservative]

Dated: Friday 10 August 2012 11.15 EDT

Romney hasn't been at Bain for how long now?

Nothing to see here.

still his company with his attitude towards working people.

Still his company? Really? You have documentation proving he still retains ownership? Please... link?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Dated: Friday 10 August 2012 11.15 EDT

Romney hasn't been at Bain for how long now?

Nothing to see here.

still his company with his attitude towards working people.

Still his company? Really? You have documentation proving he still retains ownership? Please... link?

Joe B hammer and sickle is a knee jerk hateful hack.
If you said to him the sky is blue he would say that union labor keeps it blue.

 

[Conservative]

still his company with his attitude towards working people.

Still his company? Really? You have documentation proving he still retains ownership? Please... link?

Joe B hammer and sickle is a knee jerk hateful hack.
If you said to him the sky is blue he would say that union labor keeps it blue.

He is not the sharpest sickle in Siberia.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Still his company? Really? You have documentation proving he still retains ownership? Please... link?

Joe B hammer and sickle is a knee jerk hateful hack.
If you said to him the sky is blue he would say that union labor keeps it blue.

He is not the sharpest sickle in Siberia.

That's friggin hilarious.

 

[rdean]

Correct. Unlike GM..Paid back the loans ahead of schedule...
Once again. The OP trashed Iaccocca for leaving Chrysler with a golden parachute. The OP ignored the accomplishments of Iaccocca.
Look, I have no idea why people are so fearful or indignant when it comes to business.
If not for business and industry, we'd be Liechtenstein.
Business puts people to work. Everybody's happy. Where's the problem?

Because if you don't have reasonable protections, what you get is Mexico...

Some people get to work, but the country is polluted and full of garbage and everyone lives in filth.

Kind of what this country was before we had a labor movement.

**** Iacocca and every other "master of the universe" who thinks their farts don't stink.

We have reasonable protections.
Federal and state labor laws that protect the rights of employees.
We do not want nor need a labor collective to do that for us.
Obviously you have a hard on for rich people. Does that include ALL rich people, including those wealthy union bosses?

Union bosses are wealthy? How "wealthy"?

 

[Dot Com]

Because if you don't have reasonable protections, what you get is Mexico...

Some people get to work, but the country is polluted and full of garbage and everyone lives in filth.

Kind of what this country was before we had a labor movement.

**** Iacocca and every other "master of the universe" who thinks their farts don't stink.

We have reasonable protections.
Federal and state labor laws that protect the rights of employees.
We do not want nor need a labor collective to do that for us.
Obviously you have a hard on for rich people. Does that include ALL rich people, including those wealthy union bosses?

Union bosses are wealthy? How "wealthy"?

Fox news and am radio says so!!!

 

[rdean]

The Ed show is going to be broadcasting from Freeport, now called "Bain Port" this Friday.

Republicans see these middle class Americans losing their jobs and laugh and laugh. They think it's hilarious these people had to train Chinese who will be doing their jobs. They think paying the Chinese 99 cents an hour is "good business". They say, "Oh, but Bain saved that company" when that company has been in business for decades and was not going under.

Republicans on the USMB laugh hysterically when they find out that Mitt "fight the Chinese" Romney refused to even try to help these "little people". He stands to make a lot of money off this move. Republicans believe that it's much more important that Mitt gets more money than what might happen to a couple of hundred Americans. **** 'em. They are the "little people". Soon to be part of the 47%. Worthless, no good.

Besides, Mitt wants to bring immigrants here who already have degrees. Then the country doesn't have to "waste money" trying to train Americans who are already here.

Immigration | Mitt Romney for President

 

[Shelzin]

No... The author says those are the figures after inflation. I would submit that the authors interpretation of "Purchasing Power" is flat out wrong or uses factors that are irreverent.

Please don't do this. I just finished banging my head with an utterly clueless poster who argued that GDP growth wasn't economic growth. Please don't tell me that purchasing power isn't income after inflation.

OH no... It absolutely is. The problem is I can't find any information to back up your source. It's just flat out wrong. You seem to trust that blog. I don't. I don't even trust the news. I question it. And damnit... It's not possible given numbers that I can find anywhere that purchasing power has gone up unless they are using some seriously fucked up numbers or adding factors to inflate it.

Purchasing power (sometimes retroactively called adjusted for inflation) is the amount of goods or services that can be purchased with a unit of currency. For example, if you had taken one dollar to a store in the 1950s, you would have been able to buy a greater number of items than you would today, indicating that you would have had a greater purchasing power in the 1950s. ...

A higher real income means a higher purchasing power since real income refers to the income adjusted for inflation.

Purchasing power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This isn't debatable. It's the first or second class of a first year economics course.

You are absolutely correct. It is not debatable. The difference is I checked the math someone else did. You did not. OR... And it's possible... My math is fucked up.

So now I ask you to do the math yourself. Don't trust a site... You seem like you know how to do it... But you aren't... WHY?

IS this WRONG??? Was there not 18% inflation between 2005 and 2012???
Edit: No responses? Need it simplified further? No problem.

If you made: 30k a year in 2005 you need to be making 35,400 right now to break even to buy the same things you did in 2005

If you made: 50k a year in 2005 you need to be making 59,000 right now to break even to buy the same things you did in 2005

If you made: 100k a year in 2005 you need to be making 118,000 right now to break even to buy the same things you did in 2005

Please... If I'm wrong someone tell me.

DON'T TRUST ME. DON'T TRUST A SITE. DO YOUR OWN MATH.

 

[Shelzin]

And I answered that the numbers are adjusted for inflation. That means they are after inflation. So a positive number means that purchasing power is rising.

Over the past five years, inflation-adjusted incomes are roughly flat.

at all income levels, toro?

That's irrelevant.

Well... For purchasing power I suppose it could be irrelevant.

It would be possible for purchasing power to go up during a recession and loss of jobs and all that comes with it. But that would mean that the money isn't going to the people that have the ability to stop the recession. The middle class.

I mean... The Middle Class would have to be getting smaller to make up for the difference of the money going elsewhere. I mean the money could be going to poor people I guess. But I don't think we have enough poor people in the US to do that.

*ponders*

I need to think on that.

 

[JoeB131]

Bigotry is rooted in ignorance, as you repeatedly display throughout the board, including this post.

Guy, you can whine like a little ***** all day.

If you are hated by me, you've probably done something to deserve it. Individually or collectively.

For an individual in such a tenuous position, defending unions and especially public sector unions, you are quite arrogant to believe you are the center of everyone's attention.
Quite frankly, your feelings about us conservatives carry but a flyspeck of importance.

Yes, you spend a whole lot of time not caring what I say... really.

Unions created the middle class. They made America a great country. This country was built by men in denim, not men in suits.

About time you all put down the Ayn Rand... you've mistaken parasites for vital organs.

 

[JoeB131]

Here's how much I care.

]

When you stop following me around, then I'll believe you really don't care.

Frankly, cyber stalking, and keeping lists of out of context statements that you can lie about, that's kind of the opposite of "not caring".

Good idea. Get out the whiny ***** card when you've been pwnd and can't back your statements.

Oh, guy, you are the one plaing the "I don't care" card when you follow me around like a little ***** and throwing out straw men like "hating Wall Street Douchebags is just like being in the Klan" shit.